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After some inactivity there appears to be some fairly active editing on this page again. Can we have a discussion here about what this article should achieve and how it can meet those ends without us constantly undoing each other's changes?
Obviously this is an issue with definite opinion on both sides but the evidence for or against helmet laws is far from overwhelming and in keeping with the guidelines of wikipedia we need to make sure we include unbiased evidence without editorialising.
Thanks to Harvey4931 for including the detailed section about the history of the laws introduction. I was too heavy-handed in my original edits to that section and I think we're closer to reaching a more acceptable compromise now. I still feel the section about the study being ignored should be removed because it is only one study of many that was looked at and singling it out gives one side undue weighting. I'm open to what others thing about this however.
Every study cited on this page has been criticised by someone and then counter criticised. I thought about including rejoinders that have been published to some of the studies here but decided it was more in keeping with wikipedia's guidelines to only include the initial study and not the rejoinders and counter rejoinders. This page is too large as it is without every reference having two or more counter references cited. For this reason I think I'm right in deleting the "this study has been ctiticised" sections. All studies have been criticised.
I also think we have to include every study and reference point rather than deleting ones included by others. If something appears to be an issue it would be great if it could be discussed more and a compromise reached.
Dsnmi ( talk) 01:23, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
I think it is OK to describe and reference responses, rejoinders and other critiques of peer-reviewed published studies, provided those responses and rejoinders and critiques were themselves also peer-reviewed and published in a scientific journal - that is, that they are part of the recognised scientific discourse. To exclude such responses and critiques would mean that, for example, all of the published articles by Bill Curnow would need to be chopped out, and that would be a loss, because they are definitely part of the scientific discourse on the subject. However, critiques and criticisms of research papers which are self-published on the web sites of single-issue organisations should definitely not be cited on WP, and especially when such critiques are anonymously authored.
Tim C (
talk) 06:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
So why was important information deleted, such as the change in pedestrian injuries head injuries in Victoria? It is now generally recognized that other road safety initiatives were introduced at the same time as Victoria's helmet law and that one way to try and separate out these effects is to compare identical statistics for cyclists and pedestrians or other road users. I have also added other important information, e.g. that the estimates of cycle use in the Olivier paper reflect the change in inner Sydney, which differed considerably from other data (e.g. census) for NSW as a whole. Olivier compared injury data for the whole of NSW with cycle use for inner Sydney. It would have been more relevant to compare injury data and cycle use for the same area. Finally, I have added back the explanation about the "estimated 44% changes in adult cycle use in Victoria", which was for the entire period from Dec/Jan 87/88 to 1991, so smooths out the increasing pre-law trends and the effect of the helmet law. The 1990 survey counted adults, which were published; the series of numbers counted from 87/88 to 1990 to 1991 (the latter two surveys using the same sites and observation periods) provide a much more complete picture than simply comparing Dec/Jan 87/88 with 1991. Wiki should be free from the biases created by removing important published information. If you disagree that this information is correct or relevant, please discuss here. Dorre ( talk) 00:06, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
Hi there. I wanted to send a big thank you to all contributors to this article and tell them that I just translated it into Spanish. If you're curious, or even bold, es:El casco ciclista en Australia. Best regards, Cvalda ( talk) 18:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
For census data, we should probably be quoting directly from the source, i.e., http://www.abs.gov.au/ documents, not interpretations by a third-party website. What specific original government documents, tables, graphs, etc. are they using to get their figures? Nelsonsnavy ( talk) 19:28, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
As everyone knows, census data are recorded every 5 years. Graphs usually show lines to join the points to make the trends easier to see. However, we don't know what happened in between the points, so when some event such as a helmet law happens between two points, the normal convention would be to put it in the middle of the line joining the two points, to demonstrate that the trend between the two points is meaningless.
A graph showing a downward trend from 1986 to 1991 and a line showing the introduction of the law in 1990 would be confusing, because some people might think that the line joining the two points represented a real trend and therefore that the reduction in cycling to work occurred before the helmet law. I hope that there is general agreement that the census graph and other relevant information should be reinstated. Dorre ( talk) 00:53, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
The plot in its current state is clearly wrong and should not be presented as such. The data is presented as a time series, therefore the x-axis is on a continuous scale and putting legislation dates in the middle of observed time points is misleading. The census date in 1991 was in August and many laws came into effect in July only one month prior. This distinction is incredibly important if you reference the NSW, SA reports and others which demonstrate adult cycling did not decline with helmet legislation.
Qld is an anomaly among Australian states and should be treated separately. Although not enforced immediately, the helmet wearing rate for Qld adults was much higher than that for Victoria, NSW or SA pre-law.
It is important to note the fluctuations is percentage of journeys by bike is extremely small from 1976 onwards. Travel per kilometre by bike peaked during WWII at 8-9% and declined steadily thereafter. See page 27 of http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure/mcu/urbanpolicy/files/ACTIVE_TRAVEL_DISCUSSION.pdf.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 05:53, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
As I've mentioned here and other places, the laws are CLEARLY in the wrong positions. The Victorian law was July 1990, NSW was January 1991 for adults and July 1991 for kids, SA was July 1990, the WA in July 1992 and Queensland in July 1991. You say that Qld did not enforce their law for 18 months, yet you also say there is evidence the helmet wearing rate for adults increased to 50% without enforcement yet with legislation which is much higher than pre-law levels for other states. It is misleading to lump Qld with other states that enforced the law when it came into effect.
The current graph puts helmet laws at 1988.5 for Victoria, NSW, SA and Tasmania; and puts the law at 1993.5 for Qld (enforcement only), WA and ACT. The x-axis is on a continuous scale and the graphical objects are clearly in the wrong places. There are 60 months in a five year period and you've put the law near month 30 instead of month 59 where they belong since the 1991 audit was in August.
Your comment about seasonality and riding is immaterial if measurements are taken near the same time of the year. Were they? The City of Adelaide counts found in Marshall and White's 1994 reported 1,747 cyclists in Sept 1990 and 1,797 cyclists in Sept 1991 (one month after the census date). That's a 2.9% increase in ridership pre- to post-law. Why is that not mentioned anywhere? The plot as it stands makes it appear ridership was declining in SA around that time. Isn't that misleading?
Putting the laws midway is not the logical choice and is clearly misleading. It is also unclear why the y-axis stops at 2.5% when ACT goes well above it. This is a common graphical trick to make the variability in the plot seem bigger than it actually is.
What is also missing from all of this is an actual statistical analysis of this data. Are the changes in the proportion of cycling on the census date significant? Are these changes within estimates of natural variability. Although this is called a census, it is clearly only an estimate on days five years apart which therefore has some measure of uncertainty attached to them.
I linked to a plot of transportation mode in Australia from 1900 to 2010. The variability seen in these plots whether up or down is minute compared to the heydays of the 1940's when the percentages were upwards of 9%. The changes in ridership from state to state would be nearly imperceptible if the y-axis extended that far.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 21:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
How exactly is pointing to surveys showing no change from the year prior to the SA law to the next year "cherry-picking"? A fundamental principle of time series analysis is that observations nearer in time are more important than those farther away. Why isn't the SA report presented anywhere on this page? It is clearly relevant. In a report analysing the census data for cities, Mees and Groenhart conclude "Cycling is of negligible importance as a travel mode for work trips in all cities except Canberra". The small proportion of those cycling to work varies very little from state to state from 1976 to 2011. This variability only appears large through the use of misleading plots. Why isn't this report mentioned anywhere? You can find it here. http://mams.rmit.edu.au/ov14prh13lps1.pdf
What is concerning about ignoring the 1940's peak is that the strong inferences being made about changes from a bit over 1% in 1986 Victoria to just under 1% in 1991 is an exaggeration. Using data in the Mees report, the percentage using a bike as primary transport for all capital cities was 1.14% in 1986 and 1.13% in 1991. There is no reasonable statistical analysis that would indicate that's an important difference. Importantly, most Australians were subject to helmet legislation by the 1991 census date. By the time the 1996 census was taken there are many other factors that could be influencing "trends". I emphasise "trends" because a lot of information is missing for observations taken on a single day five years apart. What is clear from this data is that cycling is not a major form of transportation in Australia from 1976 to 2011 (see Mees report).
You state "These states all show departures from the trend suggesting that the law discouraged cycling to work?" How do you know this? You give no citation and this does not appear to be a neutral point. For instance SA peaks in 1981 followed by a decline in 1986 with a decline of similar magnitude in 1991 after the helmet law. How exactly does a steady decline support your point? Changes in time series happen for many reasons (especially for observations so far apart) and alternative explanations need to be explored before drawing inferences. The sentence should be deleted as it is unsubstantiated by any analysis.
You state "As in some other states, the law may not have been enforced immediately -- the trend in SA..." This is not substantiated by any analysis or given a citation. Considering the law came into effect prior to the 1991 census, is there no other explanation for the small decline more than five years after? It is unreasonable to assume helmet legislation had a huge impact by 1996 when there was no evidence of an immediate impact in 1991.
You state "In Qld, no provision was made for penalties, so the law was widely ignored (about 50% of adults wore helmets) until 1 Jan 1993, when penalties were introduced." Helmet wearing surveys usually put helmet wearing at no more than 20% pre-law for adults in Australia. How is an increase to 50% justify your statement that the law was largely ignored? That amount is larger than any Australian state pre-law for adults. It is not as high as other states post-law, but an increase of 30% in helmet wearing is not small.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 01:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Dorre - In addition to my comments above, the use of the wording "The trend in SA shows a greater reduction..." is not substantiated. The pre-1991 trend in Adelaide is non-significant by linear or log-linear regression (with only 3 time points it would difficult to do anything else). This remains true even when the 1991 data is included. This is also true for Melbourne and the others. This enhances my earlier point that these graphs in their present state are incredibly misleading. There only appears to be great variation because the y-axis range is so small. In statistical terms, changes in percentage points less than 5% (in this case even smaller) is inconsequential. This wording is simply not true.
You now use the terms "widely ignored" to describe the helmet law in Queensland. How is that true? 50% is half of adults and is a large increase in helmet wearing when starting from 20%. The other states with enforcement top out at around 80% or so. The point is there was a clear increase in helmet wearing in Queensland after the law among adults even without enforcement. Your wording is therefore misleading.
In the next section, there is the statement "...regional areas such as small country towns, which are generally more conducive to cycling...". Where is the evidence to support that statement? Cities have more motor vehicles but they are also more likely to have cycle ways. Are there differences in injury rates relative to exposure? I'm unaware of any such study.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 22:06, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Harvey4931 has repeatedly removed summaries of peer-reviewed work assessing changes in head injury hospitalisations around the NSW helmet law. The quoted work also gives reference to a criticism by Chris Rissel which was also removed. His/her comments state "The quoted studies are tainted with a conflict of interest and misleading. Wikipedia is not the place to debate controversial studies", "Wikipedia should not be used by academics to promote themselves, particularly when the description is one-sided." and "removed POV material. This study does not demonstrate effectiveness of helmets. A number of other factors, including lower speeds & bicycle lanes, could explain". None of these criticisms have been substantiated and appear to only be Harvey4931's opinions. Although I am a co-author on two of these references, I did not write these passages. Although, I made one minor change to correct the year the study was conducted/published.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 21:40, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Harvey4931 inserted the commentary
"These figures are cycling injuries per population, they do not reflect the risk of injury per cyclist. According to data from this study, between 1991 and 2000, the number of arm injuries doubled, while the number of head injuries increased by 40%. 1991 was a transitional year where the helmet law was partially implemented. Cycling numbers kept declining in the early 1990's, a 1996 cycling survey in Sydney revealed that cycling counts were 48% below the level before the law. [1]. There is no evidence of cycling levels recovering in the late 1990's. Despite a much lower number of cyclists, head injuries and arm injuries increased significantly for a decade, suggesting a higher risk of accident."
which I have deleted. The original study did, in fact, compare head and arm cycling injuries per cyclist as estimated from bicycle imports, cycling counts into the Sydney CBD and ERASS participation surveys (no other yearly estimates of cycling exist for NSW during that period). When compared to cycling numbers, head injury rates always declined -- this pattern was not always observed for arm injuries. Figure 2 shows standardised values over time for injuries and estimates of cycling numbers.
If cycling numbers continued to decline, why would a CENSUS of hospitalisations over that period show no trend for head injuries and an increase in arm injuries? Harvey4931's reference is to a cycling survey that does not appear to be anywhere online nor does it appear to have been peer-reviewed. There are no distinctive changes in either time series with the exception of the helmet law and the increase in cycling infrastructure expenditures. If cycling declined by 48%, as Harvey4931, then head injuries would have increased by an equivalent amount. That would be beyond highly unlikely.
1991 was not a "transition year" for NSW. The law came into effect instantaneously. No infrastructure needed to be built. There are issues with kid and adult laws being effective six months apart. But our 2011 paper analysed injuries relative to the helmet law dates (be the injured a kid or an adult). This paper is primarily focused on the impact twenty years hence and 1991 is the starting point.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 02:29, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I deleted this because, apart from being improperly formatted, it appeared to be a set of demands for changes in helmet safety labelling, complaints about governments not heeding advice or not following due process, and a set of personal concerns about helmet effectiveness and safety. Many of the points lacked references. One used another WP article on helmets as a reference - that is against WP policy (WP can't be used as a reference for itself). WP is an encyclopedia, not a soapbox. It is not OK to include sets of demands in an article, nor complaints about government processes. Descriptions of government processes that are documented and referenced elsewhere are OK, but not whinging that due process wasn't followed or that advice from lobby groups or petitions was not heeded. Tim C ( talk) 02:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
'List of concerns' Basically probably 3 groups of people exists with regards helmets, those in favour or either helmets or laws, those opposed to either and those not bothered. Those opposed will probably have most concerns. After 20 years of debate anyone accessing the wiki site may wish to have a clear idea of any concerns that people have. Providing a list of concerns gives then direct access to precise information with references. Some concerns on a list could include reasons why helmets are promoted or the concerns people had for introducing helmet laws.
Concerns have been expressed about helmets/helmet laws across a number of articles. Providing a 'list of concerns' allows readers to quickly assess the main concerns and in the articles that they where published. This directly benefits the public in understanding the issues and examining the evidence if needed. My view is that a list should be provided to assist the public and bring together issues that may need consideration. it is really part of free speech allowing people to discuss issues that concern them. Colin at cycling ( talk) 22:58, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
While some considerable work has been put into this page, it could still benefit from some clarifying changes. In order to improve this page I am floating a number of ideas in the Talk section before making any edits. It seems that the main purpose of this page is to discuss the various aspects of mandatory helmet legislation in Australia, but this is not entirely obvious at first glance. If that is the case the page would benefit from this being made clearer in the titles. By way of clarification the main title could be changed to something like “Bicycle helmet Laws in Australia”, the “injury rates” section could be changed to “Bicycle helmet law efficacy” and the “Bicycle Usage” section could be changes to “Helmet laws and ridership”.
It seems there are two fundamental questions around helmet laws: 1) did they reduce head injuries at a population level, and 2) did they change levels of ridership? These questions seem to approximately correspond to the “injury Rates” and “Bicycle Usage” sections. It seems the aim of the “injury Rates” section is to summarise assessments of the effectiveness of the various state laws. For readers to get a clear idea of the evidence it would help to separate rigorous studies from opinion, possibly through some kind of hierarchy of evidence. For example subsections within “injury Rates” might be something like 1. Peer-reviewed analyses, 2. Peer-reviewed commentary, 3. Grey literature (e.g. reports from government or universities), and 4. Other (e.g. website, blogs, opinion pieces). The last option could be omitted. A similar hierarchy of subsections could also be applied to the “Bicycle Usage” section.
The “Bicycle usage: opinions in relation to the helmet law” subsection would be better combined with the “Public attitude to helmets” section.
The references do not appear to provide a comprehensive list of the literature on this subject. There seems to be many references to two websites that appear to provide opinion only and do not seem to be entirely impartial. Also papers by Robinson are well represented, while others are not cited at all (e.g. Cameron, 1992; Carr, 1995). The article could certainly be improved by making the reference list more comprehensive, and by removing POV website references. A link to the original reports by Walker, and by Smith & Milthorpe would be helpful for the “bicycle usage” section. S.Walter.1 ( talk) 23:56, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
The utility of the source documents is aptly demonstrated by Tim's citing the NSW survey dates as "September 1990 and September of 1991, 1992 and 1993". If he hasn't read them and can't even cite the dates of the survey correctly, what hope is there for the average reader, who has to come to grips with other issues such as the confounding with time of year? I would suggest broad summaries first then references to the details. Dorre ( talk) 00:44, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
The details were published in 2007, Appendix B3)VeloCity Munich presentaion report. http://www.nationaler-radverkehrsplan.de/eu-bund-laender/eu/velocity/schedule.phtml, http://www.nationaler-radverkehrsplan.de/eu-bund-laender/eu/velocity/presentations/velocity2007_pp_17c_long_public.pdf Colin at cycling ( talk) 09:11, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
McDermott and Klug 1982, "Difference in head injuries of pedal cyclist and motorcyclist casualties in Victoria", reported 73 skull fractures for pedal cyclists compared with 31 for motorcyclists and concluded that pedal cyclists had a significant greater incident of fractured vault of the skull. They were mainly comparing adult motorcyclists (96%) to cyclists aged less 17 years of age (73%). Adult skull stiffness is higher than for children therefore they were not quite comparing like with like. They reported 181 pedal cyclist fatalities compared with 451 for motorcyclists. The travel data available for 1984/5 (about 7 years after their study period) detailed bicyclists spending 114,500 hours per day cycling in Victoria compared with 17,500 hours per day for motorcycling. Relating time of travel to skull fractures shows motorcyclists incur nearly three times that of bicyclists, a factor of 278% and have a fatality rate 16.3 higher than bicyclists and the overall injury rate for motorcyclists was 16.1 times higher. Motorcyclists generally wearing helmets were 16 times more likely to be killed or injured and nearly 3 times more likely to suffer a skull fracture compared with bicyclists who were generally not wearing helmets. With hindsight it was a mistake for McDermott and Klug not to relate injury and death to time spent travelling, making their findings unsuitable for considering overall safety. In addition they reported having no information on the cause of death. Their recommendation for a coordinated campaign, involving the Royal Australasin College of Surgeons, road safety and traffic authorities, the Educational Department, school principals' and parents' councils, and the media to increase helmet wearing rates was not based on reliable methods. Both McDermott and Klug were members of the Road Trauma Committee, Royal Australian College of Surgeons that requested the Government of Victoria to introduce bicycle helmet legislation.
Wikipedia has a clear policies of no original research and no synthesis of published material that advances a position in WP articles. Please use this section to document possible violations of these policies in this article. Tim C ( talk) 20:59, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
In the History section, the article currently states:
Reporting the results of the McDermott and Klug study is fine, as is reporting the 1985/86 travel survey data for cyclists and motorcyclists (although relevance is marginal IMHO). However, the next sentence, "Per hour of travel motorcyclists generally wearing helmets were more likely to be killed or suffer a skull fracture compared with bicyclists who were generally not wearing helmets." is unreferenced and appears to be a synthesis of the two preceding sources in order to imply that unhelmeted cycling is safer than helmeted motorcycling. That may or may not be the case, but drawing such a conclusion in the article is synthesis, and given the following sentence about McDermott's and Klug committee membership, the intent of this synthesis seems to be to cast doubt on McDermott and Klug in some way. I think the synthesis should be removed, because it violates WP policy. Tim C ( talk) 20:59, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
The information was included in the 2007 Velocity reports on cycling. Appendix 'Mistakes in helmet assessments from Australia' B3 [2] [3] McDermott and Klug were authors of a helmet report that by not relating to exposure gave the impression that cyclists were more at risk of head injury than motorcyclists. They were also part of a key group who had contact with the Government. Including these details in the History section helps to explain how the law appeared to be justisfed. Adding ref to artcile. Colin at cycling ( talk) 09:11, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
I have added Citation needed tags to two of the Census data charts currently in this article. Clicking on these charts reveals that they were created by WP user Dorre, who does not have a user profile page. A WP user name does not constitute an identified and reliable source, as WP policy requires for all material which appears in WP article. The source of the data used in these graphs is provided by Dorre, but that is insufficient - a reference to where the graphic itself has been elsewhere published is required - otherwise these charts must be construed as original research, which is not permitted in WP articles. The graphs present a particular interpretation of the source data, as evinced by discussion about them by their author and Jake Olivier elsewhere on the Talk page. Therefore, their source must be made clear, or they should be removed. Tim C ( talk) 02:25, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
I have edited the statement added by User:Colin at cycling regarding the gaoling of a female minor in the NT for failing to pay helmet fines. The problem is that there appears to be just a single source for this, and that source is a 1998 report in a UK newspaper for teachers, not in Australian mainstream news media. Therefore there must be some doubt about the accuracy and verifiability of the report, and I have tagged it accordingly as a single source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim.churches ( talk • contribs) 21:37, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I would like to draw attention to the WP policy 'Self-published as sources on themselves'
The above suggests that the 'non-primary source' tag should be removed from Sue Abbott's report of her legal challenges (substantiated by http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/heady-freedom-as-judge-agrees-helmet-laws-are-unnecessary-20100827-13vz2.html ). The same probably applied to Alan Todd's comments about his wife. Dorre ( talk) 21:18, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
User:Dorre has questioned an edit I made to a reference to a Norwegian report:
Personally, I'm at a loss to understand some of his [ User:Tim.churches ] edits, for example he "Corrected reference to Hoye and Elvik (not Erke and Elvik as stated)" I clicked on the link to the reference, a pdf file which lists the authors as Alena Erke and Rune Elvik on the front page.
The correct reference is indeed Erke and Elvik. I was mislead by this page about the report in question, , on their institition's web site, which clearly gives the authorship as Høye & Elvik: https://www.toi.no/article19378-29.html Presumably Alena Erke changed her name to Alena Høye at some stage. I trust that this adequately explains the rationale for the edit. Tim C ( talk) 04:01, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
User:Kiwikiped recently made this edit: (Deleted " but did not provide any case law to support this assertion" in relation to a quote from an article in a peer-review journal. This seems to be a distinctly non-NPOV comment on the article as so inappropriate, but correct me if I am wrong.)
This is just a note about why I consider that text appropriate and not in violation of non-NPOV. An article in the NZ Medical Journal is given as the authority for the text in question. However, on investigation of that source, an article written by Colin F Clarke, the only information contained in it on possible compensation discrimination is as follows:
Unfortunately, no references at all are given in support of this assertion in the NZ Medical Journal article - no case law, nor other documented examples. Thus this appears to be an unsupported assertion by the author, and thus, I felt, warranted the qualification I added in the WP article. The principle is that just because an assertion is made in an article in a peer-reviewed journal doesn't mean it is automatically reliable - there is an expectation that such assertions, if repeated in WP articles, are themselves supported by authority to reasonable external references (or by reported data as the case may be). For these reasons, I don't think the qualification represents a non-NPOV and I propose to undo the edit. It is also worth pointing out that the article referenced was in a NZ medical journal and is about the NZ bicycle helmet laws, whereas this WP article is about bicycle helmets in Australia. Thus it is a stretch to use such an article as an authority for assertions about possible discrimination in compensation cases for road traffic accidents in Australia. Tim C ( talk) 19:59, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
→ Colin at cycling ( talk) 09:41, 18 March 2013 (UTC) The NZ article was an evalaution of their helmet law and included several aspects. Mention of discrimination was inserted in the text, summary and conclusions. To decide on discrimination requires a full consideration of the issues and the report provided for this level of consideration. The discrimination part was a general statement applying if compensation was being reduced because helmets were not worn. In part the example given was from the UK showing that other road users also had similar proportions of head injuries to cyclists. Australian legal opinion states that compensation can be reduced by 25% if not wearing a helmet. The NZ report mentions “Erke and Elvik (Norwegian researchers) 200710 stated: ‘There is evidence of increased accident risk per cycling-km for cyclists wearing a helmet. In Australia and NZ, the increase is estimated to be around 14 percent. It assessed a range of issues in deciding Discrimination can occur in accident compensation cases where a cyclist was not wearing a helmet, compared to pedestrians or indeed motor vehicle occupants who received head injuries. The helmet laws result in unfair compensation and a biased legal process. The statement was supported by the previous details with approximately 4 times more pedestrians dying from head injury than cyclists. Evidence to support the statement was provided in the details and the whole report. The article was peer reviewed and did not require additional references to support the above statement, it was considered acceptable.
In the UK there has been discussions about the reduced compensation aspect over a number of years, so it was widely known without providing detailed references.
Adding " but did not provide any case law to support this assertion" questions the statement that was not done in the peer reviewed article. If anyone wants to challenge the statement they need to write a suitable article and have peer review or perhaps refer to a Human Rights court hearing.
The article coming from New Zealand who also have an all age helmet law (following the Australian example)and have similar proportions of cyclist to pedestrian deaths, indicating that it is suitable for including in the discussions. On balance leaving out " but did not provide any case law to support this assertion" is the more appropaite action. Colin at cycling ( talk) 09:41, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps a problem here is that the website appears to be biased towards helmets, and they don't seem to give both sides to the debate. That is what I think anyway. Numbermaniac - T - C 00:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
User:Colin at cycling added mention of the de Jong health benefit model of mandatory helmet laws into the section in this article titled "Health implications of bicycle helmets legislation". I removed this mention and reference because de Jong, although he is an Australian researcher, specifically did not evaluate the Australian case in his paper (he only looked at North American and European countries), and also his work and related work is aleady covered in the main WP article on bicycle helmets Bicycle helmet. The mention of de Jong was restored by User:Colin at cycling, and so I made the description of de Jong's work slightly more precise and added mention of the Newboald model, which was published in the same issue of the same journal (Risk Analysis), on the very next page to the de Jong paper. In fact, the Newbold paper was a constructive critique of the de Jong model - which came to a slightly different conclusion than de Jong with respect to the health benefit of mandatory helmet laws in the US case. Thus, the de Jong paper should not be mentioned in a WP article without also mentioning the Newbold paper too. My view is the neither paper need be discussed in this article on helmets in Australia, for the reasons set out above. But if they are discussed here, then BOTH must be mentioned in order to maintain a NPOV. Tim C ( talk) 23:46, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Currently there are some 13 references to material on the Bicycle Helmet Research Foundation web site. Given that it is a single-issue web site, I have sought opinions at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Bicycle_Helmet_Research_Foundation on whether it is a suitable authority for the relevant assertions which cite it in this article. Please provide feedback on this question in the Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Bicycle_Helmet_Research_Foundation section of the RS noticeboard. Tim C ( talk) 02:25, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Seeking to remove these references seems a bit strange, but that doesn't mean doing so is wrong as I am no authority. This article seems to be a fair attempt to present a topic in a NPOV in which there are very strongly held opposing POVs. In doing so it references material from sources from both camps, it surely needs to do this to back up the material presented. For example it references material from Governments which passed the laws, which unsurprisingly supports the laws, as well as referencing material from those who oppose the laws; that would seem to be the balanced approach. Lobby groups; be they for the protection of animals, or against some law or other, etc.; tend to be focussed by nature, to reject references to them because of this inherent nature seems unbalanced. In an article discussing, say, battery farming, I'd expect to see references to material by both those supporting such farming and those opposing it - to include either one to the exclusion of the other would be a non-NPOV article surely? Kiwikiped ( talk) 15:43, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Reliable sources are usually required to have "editorial oversight". Just glancing through their editorial board members shows that it is about 50:50 split between experts (university professors, researchers or consultants in the field and the like) and laypersons (activists, GPs etc). I'm not overly familiar with the finer points of determining reliability, but given their obvious POV, it is a bit of a red flag. That said, the data they quote seems to be legit, and their list of sources is immense. Perhaps it would do, where possible, to quote the source material direct rather than the BHRF, since most of the sources seem to be NPOV. Certainly better than citing an interest group 13 times. -- Yeti Hunter ( talk) 11:12, 21 March 2013 (UTC) Edit: I came here from your request at the sciences RFC noticeboard
User:Dorre muses (above): "If Tim have ever seen equally incorrect on the BHRF website, I expect he would have complained about it immediately." Well, I can say that your expectation is incorrect - I am not in the business of correcting the BHRF site - that is the job of the site owner and its Editorial Board. My only concern is whether the BHRF web site is a suitably reliable reference for this and related WP articles. But since you ask, here is something that the BRHF Editorial Board might wish to correct: on this page, research by Voukelatos and Rissel is described: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1207.html?NKey=22 - with a footnoting noting that the study contained serious errors, but failing to mentioned that the study was formally and completely retracted by the journal which published it. The study is also listed (with broken web links to the paper) here: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1160.html and here: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1146.html - in both cases without any mention that the paper contained serious errors and had been retracted (indeed, citation of papers after they have been formally retracted is a highly unusually practice in peer-reviewed scientific discourse). Yet these pages on the cyclehelmets.org site are clearly maintained, because references to much more recent studies have been added to them. Tim C ( talk) 04:37, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Here is another example of the selectivity of the information offered on the BHRF cyclehelmets.org site: there is a link titled "Cutting through the controversy about helmet effectiveness" at the very top of the cyclehelmets.org home page, leading to this page: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1249.html which is about the de Jong cost-benefit model of hypothetical all-age mandatory helmet laws. The reference for this study is: de Jong, Piet (May 2012). "The Health Impact of Mandatory Bicycle Helmet Laws". Risk Analysis 32 (5): pp782–790. Fine, but there is no mention whatsoever of the response to the de Jong model by Newbold, which was published on the very next page of the same issue of the same journal (Newbold, Stephen C. (May 2012). "Examining the Health-Risk Tradeoffs of Mandatory Bicycle Helmet Laws". Risk Analysis 32 (5): pp791–798.). Newbold critically examined the de Jong model, and far from dismissing it, he suggested various improvements to it and identified parameters in it which require further research in order to quantify accurately (such as exercise type substitution behaviour). Newbold used published US data in his refined version of the de Jong model and found that mandatory bicycle helmet laws would seem to have positive net public health benefits in the US, although he warned that results from both his model and that of de Jong needed to be treated as very provisional due to uncertainty around values of key parameters to them. In fact, there doesn't seem to be any reference to Newbold's paper at all on the BHRF cyclehelmets.org web site. It is this sort of selectivity in the evidence presented that calls the reliability of the BHRF as a source for WP articles into question. Tim C ( talk) 01:31, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Response by User:Linda.m.ward
Tim Churches has previously pointed out that the studies that appear on the BHRF web site as supportive of helmet effectiveness or promotion are accompanied by critiques claiming that the study is invalid or fatally flawed, but that the studies listed as being sceptical of helmet effectiveness of promotion are not accompanied by negative critiques. I too had noticed this lack of balance when I first stumbled on the site a couple of years ago, and have consequently not spent a lot of time on the site, but have encountered much evidence of inaccuracy or unreliability in the information presented.
The 'Published evidence sceptical of helmet effectiveness or promotion' page ( http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1146.html), contains 2 articles that most certainly do NOT 'cast doubt on the effectiveness of cycle helmets in reducing head injuries (at least serious head injuries), or on the wisdom of helmet promotion or laws', and one article (critical of the helmet law) that was retracted more than a year ago.
With respect to an article by Elvik (Accident Analysis & Prevention, 2011;43(3):1245-1251. 2011), the page states that 'Attewell et al influenced by publication and time-trend biases. When controlled for, the protective effects of helmets are smaller. Adding new studies, no overall benefit of helmets found.' Elvik noted that 'the re-analysis shows smaller safety benefits associated with the use of bicycle helmets than the original study', and reported the following odds ratios for fatal, brain and head injuries - fatal injury 0.27 in Attewell's original study, 0.23 in Elvik's re-analysis - brain injury 0.42 in the original study, 0.47 in the re-analysis - head injury 0.40 in the original study, 0.58 in the re-analysis Re head injuries, Elvik wrote: 'Do bicycle helmets reduce the risk of injury to the head, face or neck? With respect to head injury, the answer is clearly yes, and the re-analysis of the meta-analysis reported by Attewell et al.(2001) in this paper has not changed this answer.'
As already noted by Tim Churches, an article by Voukelatos and Rissel (Australasian College of Road Safety, ACRS 2010;21(3):50-55. 2010.) that was retracted in early 2011 is still listed on the page. The page described the study that was retracted 2 years ago as showing that 'Helmets were not the main reason for the drop in head injuries in Australia since helmet laws were introduced. General improvement in road safety from random breath testing and other measures were probably the cause.'. Many studies published after the retraction have been added to the page (7 in 2012 alone), yet this study has still not been removed from the page.
In describing an AIHW article (Serious injury due to land transport accidents, Australia, 2003-04), the page states that 'Wearing a helmet seems to have no discernible impact on the risk of head injury'. The AIHW report does not even mention bicycle helmets.
I have scanned only a few other pages on the BHRF site, and would not consider any of them to be reliable . . .
'Changes in cycle use in Australia' ( http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1194.html) cites an SA study as showing a reduction in cycling to school, notes that the study 'likely' under-estimated that actual decline, and fails to note that the decline in cycling to school in the SA study was very similar to the declines in cycling to school in NSW and Victoria. The article also fails to note that the SA study found that there was no (statistically significant) evidence of a reduction in adult cycling, that prior to the helmet law cycling to school comprised about 20% of cycling in that age group, and that after the helmet law there was an increase in cycling to/around other venues of similar magnitude to the drop in cycling to school.
'Helmet laws: Northern Territory' ( http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1114.html) claims that 'Helmet use is now low in the NT . . . Estimates in 2004 suggested that 15% - 20% of cyclists continue to wear helmets, mostly "serious" cyclists'. I live in Darwin and have been cycling almost every day (commuter and utility) for about 10 years. The helmet wearing rate is much higher than the 15-20% alleged, probably at least 80%, ie. it the number of cyclists NOT wearing helmets would be at most 15%-20%.
'Head Injuries and Helmet Laws in Australia and New Zealand' ( http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1241.html) contains numerous examples of 'overlooking' evidence that runs counter to the claim that the helmet law was/is a bad thing. With respect to the most obvious examples, the article
Linda.m.ward ( talk) 07:18, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
It is wrong to attempt to dismiss a particular information source on the basis of an alleged bias, rather than on the basis on the accuracy of the information itself. For example, CRAG openly states where it stands. Not everybody agrees with that position, however some of the information provided on the site is still useful. For example, this page summarising surveys of cycling after the helmet law. ( http://crag.asn.au/?p=174). This is informative, described in the neutral tone, and properly referenced. To dismiss it on the basis of not agreeing with CRAG's position seems biased.
The same applies to BHRF. Attempts being made to dismiss material from BHRF on the basis of not agreeing with the position of some of its members seems biased. This discussion should be based on facts, not on disagreeing with some members of a group. Linda Ward long list of statements she disagree with on BHRF is interesting. However, it is not proper to attempt to denigrate it without providing BHRF the opportunity to reply. It would be more appropriate to contact BHRF directly and let them know of statements believed to be incorrect on their site, providing supporting evidence. For example, claiming that the helmet wearing rate in the northern territory is 80% based on personal observations is no more generalisable that somebody else perception. A survey is needed to support such statements.
It is odd that an avid helmet advocate attempts to dismiss references from CRAG on the basis that CRAG is open & honest about their position, and now attempts to do the same about BHRF. Particularly while quoting studies without disclosing relevant conflict of interests nor disclosing that they have been conducted by helmet advocates. This is deceitful. These studies could be critiqued in a similar manner as the way BHRF material is being dismissed. Effectively, adopting the approach suggested means punishing honesty (ie. discounting information from sources that have the honesty to state their position), and rewarding deceit (to present as neutral information from sources that attempt to conceal their position, or to pretend to have a neutral position while being helmet advocates).
I do not claim to speak on behalf of Wikipedia, but it seems dangerous for Wikipedia to tolerate such an approach. Rewarding misleading & deceptive conduct can only encourage it, leading Wikipedia to becoming a platform hijacked by well-organized, well-funded deceitful special interest groups.
The key is to disclose conflicts of interest when relevant. For example, it would be inappropriate to dismiss the summary of survey on the CRAG site based on CRAG stated position. The same goes for BHRF. If believe that the information posted is inaccurate, then explain why based on facts. If you are aware of an undisclosed conflict of interest, then state it (rather than try to censor the information), so that people can make a fully informed judgement. Dismissing information on the basis that you don't agree with the source stated position is a form of bias.
Arguments must be based on facts, not on disagreement with parties stated position. If you disagree with a statement referenced by BHRF, then argue based on facts, rather try to dismiss it based on the source being BHRF. Harvey4931 ( talk) 21:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
After some inactivity there appears to be some fairly active editing on this page again. Can we have a discussion here about what this article should achieve and how it can meet those ends without us constantly undoing each other's changes?
Obviously this is an issue with definite opinion on both sides but the evidence for or against helmet laws is far from overwhelming and in keeping with the guidelines of wikipedia we need to make sure we include unbiased evidence without editorialising.
Thanks to Harvey4931 for including the detailed section about the history of the laws introduction. I was too heavy-handed in my original edits to that section and I think we're closer to reaching a more acceptable compromise now. I still feel the section about the study being ignored should be removed because it is only one study of many that was looked at and singling it out gives one side undue weighting. I'm open to what others thing about this however.
Every study cited on this page has been criticised by someone and then counter criticised. I thought about including rejoinders that have been published to some of the studies here but decided it was more in keeping with wikipedia's guidelines to only include the initial study and not the rejoinders and counter rejoinders. This page is too large as it is without every reference having two or more counter references cited. For this reason I think I'm right in deleting the "this study has been ctiticised" sections. All studies have been criticised.
I also think we have to include every study and reference point rather than deleting ones included by others. If something appears to be an issue it would be great if it could be discussed more and a compromise reached.
Dsnmi ( talk) 01:23, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
I think it is OK to describe and reference responses, rejoinders and other critiques of peer-reviewed published studies, provided those responses and rejoinders and critiques were themselves also peer-reviewed and published in a scientific journal - that is, that they are part of the recognised scientific discourse. To exclude such responses and critiques would mean that, for example, all of the published articles by Bill Curnow would need to be chopped out, and that would be a loss, because they are definitely part of the scientific discourse on the subject. However, critiques and criticisms of research papers which are self-published on the web sites of single-issue organisations should definitely not be cited on WP, and especially when such critiques are anonymously authored.
Tim C (
talk) 06:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
So why was important information deleted, such as the change in pedestrian injuries head injuries in Victoria? It is now generally recognized that other road safety initiatives were introduced at the same time as Victoria's helmet law and that one way to try and separate out these effects is to compare identical statistics for cyclists and pedestrians or other road users. I have also added other important information, e.g. that the estimates of cycle use in the Olivier paper reflect the change in inner Sydney, which differed considerably from other data (e.g. census) for NSW as a whole. Olivier compared injury data for the whole of NSW with cycle use for inner Sydney. It would have been more relevant to compare injury data and cycle use for the same area. Finally, I have added back the explanation about the "estimated 44% changes in adult cycle use in Victoria", which was for the entire period from Dec/Jan 87/88 to 1991, so smooths out the increasing pre-law trends and the effect of the helmet law. The 1990 survey counted adults, which were published; the series of numbers counted from 87/88 to 1990 to 1991 (the latter two surveys using the same sites and observation periods) provide a much more complete picture than simply comparing Dec/Jan 87/88 with 1991. Wiki should be free from the biases created by removing important published information. If you disagree that this information is correct or relevant, please discuss here. Dorre ( talk) 00:06, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
Hi there. I wanted to send a big thank you to all contributors to this article and tell them that I just translated it into Spanish. If you're curious, or even bold, es:El casco ciclista en Australia. Best regards, Cvalda ( talk) 18:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
For census data, we should probably be quoting directly from the source, i.e., http://www.abs.gov.au/ documents, not interpretations by a third-party website. What specific original government documents, tables, graphs, etc. are they using to get their figures? Nelsonsnavy ( talk) 19:28, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
As everyone knows, census data are recorded every 5 years. Graphs usually show lines to join the points to make the trends easier to see. However, we don't know what happened in between the points, so when some event such as a helmet law happens between two points, the normal convention would be to put it in the middle of the line joining the two points, to demonstrate that the trend between the two points is meaningless.
A graph showing a downward trend from 1986 to 1991 and a line showing the introduction of the law in 1990 would be confusing, because some people might think that the line joining the two points represented a real trend and therefore that the reduction in cycling to work occurred before the helmet law. I hope that there is general agreement that the census graph and other relevant information should be reinstated. Dorre ( talk) 00:53, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
The plot in its current state is clearly wrong and should not be presented as such. The data is presented as a time series, therefore the x-axis is on a continuous scale and putting legislation dates in the middle of observed time points is misleading. The census date in 1991 was in August and many laws came into effect in July only one month prior. This distinction is incredibly important if you reference the NSW, SA reports and others which demonstrate adult cycling did not decline with helmet legislation.
Qld is an anomaly among Australian states and should be treated separately. Although not enforced immediately, the helmet wearing rate for Qld adults was much higher than that for Victoria, NSW or SA pre-law.
It is important to note the fluctuations is percentage of journeys by bike is extremely small from 1976 onwards. Travel per kilometre by bike peaked during WWII at 8-9% and declined steadily thereafter. See page 27 of http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure/mcu/urbanpolicy/files/ACTIVE_TRAVEL_DISCUSSION.pdf.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 05:53, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
As I've mentioned here and other places, the laws are CLEARLY in the wrong positions. The Victorian law was July 1990, NSW was January 1991 for adults and July 1991 for kids, SA was July 1990, the WA in July 1992 and Queensland in July 1991. You say that Qld did not enforce their law for 18 months, yet you also say there is evidence the helmet wearing rate for adults increased to 50% without enforcement yet with legislation which is much higher than pre-law levels for other states. It is misleading to lump Qld with other states that enforced the law when it came into effect.
The current graph puts helmet laws at 1988.5 for Victoria, NSW, SA and Tasmania; and puts the law at 1993.5 for Qld (enforcement only), WA and ACT. The x-axis is on a continuous scale and the graphical objects are clearly in the wrong places. There are 60 months in a five year period and you've put the law near month 30 instead of month 59 where they belong since the 1991 audit was in August.
Your comment about seasonality and riding is immaterial if measurements are taken near the same time of the year. Were they? The City of Adelaide counts found in Marshall and White's 1994 reported 1,747 cyclists in Sept 1990 and 1,797 cyclists in Sept 1991 (one month after the census date). That's a 2.9% increase in ridership pre- to post-law. Why is that not mentioned anywhere? The plot as it stands makes it appear ridership was declining in SA around that time. Isn't that misleading?
Putting the laws midway is not the logical choice and is clearly misleading. It is also unclear why the y-axis stops at 2.5% when ACT goes well above it. This is a common graphical trick to make the variability in the plot seem bigger than it actually is.
What is also missing from all of this is an actual statistical analysis of this data. Are the changes in the proportion of cycling on the census date significant? Are these changes within estimates of natural variability. Although this is called a census, it is clearly only an estimate on days five years apart which therefore has some measure of uncertainty attached to them.
I linked to a plot of transportation mode in Australia from 1900 to 2010. The variability seen in these plots whether up or down is minute compared to the heydays of the 1940's when the percentages were upwards of 9%. The changes in ridership from state to state would be nearly imperceptible if the y-axis extended that far.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 21:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
How exactly is pointing to surveys showing no change from the year prior to the SA law to the next year "cherry-picking"? A fundamental principle of time series analysis is that observations nearer in time are more important than those farther away. Why isn't the SA report presented anywhere on this page? It is clearly relevant. In a report analysing the census data for cities, Mees and Groenhart conclude "Cycling is of negligible importance as a travel mode for work trips in all cities except Canberra". The small proportion of those cycling to work varies very little from state to state from 1976 to 2011. This variability only appears large through the use of misleading plots. Why isn't this report mentioned anywhere? You can find it here. http://mams.rmit.edu.au/ov14prh13lps1.pdf
What is concerning about ignoring the 1940's peak is that the strong inferences being made about changes from a bit over 1% in 1986 Victoria to just under 1% in 1991 is an exaggeration. Using data in the Mees report, the percentage using a bike as primary transport for all capital cities was 1.14% in 1986 and 1.13% in 1991. There is no reasonable statistical analysis that would indicate that's an important difference. Importantly, most Australians were subject to helmet legislation by the 1991 census date. By the time the 1996 census was taken there are many other factors that could be influencing "trends". I emphasise "trends" because a lot of information is missing for observations taken on a single day five years apart. What is clear from this data is that cycling is not a major form of transportation in Australia from 1976 to 2011 (see Mees report).
You state "These states all show departures from the trend suggesting that the law discouraged cycling to work?" How do you know this? You give no citation and this does not appear to be a neutral point. For instance SA peaks in 1981 followed by a decline in 1986 with a decline of similar magnitude in 1991 after the helmet law. How exactly does a steady decline support your point? Changes in time series happen for many reasons (especially for observations so far apart) and alternative explanations need to be explored before drawing inferences. The sentence should be deleted as it is unsubstantiated by any analysis.
You state "As in some other states, the law may not have been enforced immediately -- the trend in SA..." This is not substantiated by any analysis or given a citation. Considering the law came into effect prior to the 1991 census, is there no other explanation for the small decline more than five years after? It is unreasonable to assume helmet legislation had a huge impact by 1996 when there was no evidence of an immediate impact in 1991.
You state "In Qld, no provision was made for penalties, so the law was widely ignored (about 50% of adults wore helmets) until 1 Jan 1993, when penalties were introduced." Helmet wearing surveys usually put helmet wearing at no more than 20% pre-law for adults in Australia. How is an increase to 50% justify your statement that the law was largely ignored? That amount is larger than any Australian state pre-law for adults. It is not as high as other states post-law, but an increase of 30% in helmet wearing is not small.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 01:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Dorre - In addition to my comments above, the use of the wording "The trend in SA shows a greater reduction..." is not substantiated. The pre-1991 trend in Adelaide is non-significant by linear or log-linear regression (with only 3 time points it would difficult to do anything else). This remains true even when the 1991 data is included. This is also true for Melbourne and the others. This enhances my earlier point that these graphs in their present state are incredibly misleading. There only appears to be great variation because the y-axis range is so small. In statistical terms, changes in percentage points less than 5% (in this case even smaller) is inconsequential. This wording is simply not true.
You now use the terms "widely ignored" to describe the helmet law in Queensland. How is that true? 50% is half of adults and is a large increase in helmet wearing when starting from 20%. The other states with enforcement top out at around 80% or so. The point is there was a clear increase in helmet wearing in Queensland after the law among adults even without enforcement. Your wording is therefore misleading.
In the next section, there is the statement "...regional areas such as small country towns, which are generally more conducive to cycling...". Where is the evidence to support that statement? Cities have more motor vehicles but they are also more likely to have cycle ways. Are there differences in injury rates relative to exposure? I'm unaware of any such study.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 22:06, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Harvey4931 has repeatedly removed summaries of peer-reviewed work assessing changes in head injury hospitalisations around the NSW helmet law. The quoted work also gives reference to a criticism by Chris Rissel which was also removed. His/her comments state "The quoted studies are tainted with a conflict of interest and misleading. Wikipedia is not the place to debate controversial studies", "Wikipedia should not be used by academics to promote themselves, particularly when the description is one-sided." and "removed POV material. This study does not demonstrate effectiveness of helmets. A number of other factors, including lower speeds & bicycle lanes, could explain". None of these criticisms have been substantiated and appear to only be Harvey4931's opinions. Although I am a co-author on two of these references, I did not write these passages. Although, I made one minor change to correct the year the study was conducted/published.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 21:40, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Harvey4931 inserted the commentary
"These figures are cycling injuries per population, they do not reflect the risk of injury per cyclist. According to data from this study, between 1991 and 2000, the number of arm injuries doubled, while the number of head injuries increased by 40%. 1991 was a transitional year where the helmet law was partially implemented. Cycling numbers kept declining in the early 1990's, a 1996 cycling survey in Sydney revealed that cycling counts were 48% below the level before the law. [1]. There is no evidence of cycling levels recovering in the late 1990's. Despite a much lower number of cyclists, head injuries and arm injuries increased significantly for a decade, suggesting a higher risk of accident."
which I have deleted. The original study did, in fact, compare head and arm cycling injuries per cyclist as estimated from bicycle imports, cycling counts into the Sydney CBD and ERASS participation surveys (no other yearly estimates of cycling exist for NSW during that period). When compared to cycling numbers, head injury rates always declined -- this pattern was not always observed for arm injuries. Figure 2 shows standardised values over time for injuries and estimates of cycling numbers.
If cycling numbers continued to decline, why would a CENSUS of hospitalisations over that period show no trend for head injuries and an increase in arm injuries? Harvey4931's reference is to a cycling survey that does not appear to be anywhere online nor does it appear to have been peer-reviewed. There are no distinctive changes in either time series with the exception of the helmet law and the increase in cycling infrastructure expenditures. If cycling declined by 48%, as Harvey4931, then head injuries would have increased by an equivalent amount. That would be beyond highly unlikely.
1991 was not a "transition year" for NSW. The law came into effect instantaneously. No infrastructure needed to be built. There are issues with kid and adult laws being effective six months apart. But our 2011 paper analysed injuries relative to the helmet law dates (be the injured a kid or an adult). This paper is primarily focused on the impact twenty years hence and 1991 is the starting point.-- JakeOlivier ( talk) 02:29, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I deleted this because, apart from being improperly formatted, it appeared to be a set of demands for changes in helmet safety labelling, complaints about governments not heeding advice or not following due process, and a set of personal concerns about helmet effectiveness and safety. Many of the points lacked references. One used another WP article on helmets as a reference - that is against WP policy (WP can't be used as a reference for itself). WP is an encyclopedia, not a soapbox. It is not OK to include sets of demands in an article, nor complaints about government processes. Descriptions of government processes that are documented and referenced elsewhere are OK, but not whinging that due process wasn't followed or that advice from lobby groups or petitions was not heeded. Tim C ( talk) 02:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
'List of concerns' Basically probably 3 groups of people exists with regards helmets, those in favour or either helmets or laws, those opposed to either and those not bothered. Those opposed will probably have most concerns. After 20 years of debate anyone accessing the wiki site may wish to have a clear idea of any concerns that people have. Providing a list of concerns gives then direct access to precise information with references. Some concerns on a list could include reasons why helmets are promoted or the concerns people had for introducing helmet laws.
Concerns have been expressed about helmets/helmet laws across a number of articles. Providing a 'list of concerns' allows readers to quickly assess the main concerns and in the articles that they where published. This directly benefits the public in understanding the issues and examining the evidence if needed. My view is that a list should be provided to assist the public and bring together issues that may need consideration. it is really part of free speech allowing people to discuss issues that concern them. Colin at cycling ( talk) 22:58, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
While some considerable work has been put into this page, it could still benefit from some clarifying changes. In order to improve this page I am floating a number of ideas in the Talk section before making any edits. It seems that the main purpose of this page is to discuss the various aspects of mandatory helmet legislation in Australia, but this is not entirely obvious at first glance. If that is the case the page would benefit from this being made clearer in the titles. By way of clarification the main title could be changed to something like “Bicycle helmet Laws in Australia”, the “injury rates” section could be changed to “Bicycle helmet law efficacy” and the “Bicycle Usage” section could be changes to “Helmet laws and ridership”.
It seems there are two fundamental questions around helmet laws: 1) did they reduce head injuries at a population level, and 2) did they change levels of ridership? These questions seem to approximately correspond to the “injury Rates” and “Bicycle Usage” sections. It seems the aim of the “injury Rates” section is to summarise assessments of the effectiveness of the various state laws. For readers to get a clear idea of the evidence it would help to separate rigorous studies from opinion, possibly through some kind of hierarchy of evidence. For example subsections within “injury Rates” might be something like 1. Peer-reviewed analyses, 2. Peer-reviewed commentary, 3. Grey literature (e.g. reports from government or universities), and 4. Other (e.g. website, blogs, opinion pieces). The last option could be omitted. A similar hierarchy of subsections could also be applied to the “Bicycle Usage” section.
The “Bicycle usage: opinions in relation to the helmet law” subsection would be better combined with the “Public attitude to helmets” section.
The references do not appear to provide a comprehensive list of the literature on this subject. There seems to be many references to two websites that appear to provide opinion only and do not seem to be entirely impartial. Also papers by Robinson are well represented, while others are not cited at all (e.g. Cameron, 1992; Carr, 1995). The article could certainly be improved by making the reference list more comprehensive, and by removing POV website references. A link to the original reports by Walker, and by Smith & Milthorpe would be helpful for the “bicycle usage” section. S.Walter.1 ( talk) 23:56, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
The utility of the source documents is aptly demonstrated by Tim's citing the NSW survey dates as "September 1990 and September of 1991, 1992 and 1993". If he hasn't read them and can't even cite the dates of the survey correctly, what hope is there for the average reader, who has to come to grips with other issues such as the confounding with time of year? I would suggest broad summaries first then references to the details. Dorre ( talk) 00:44, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
The details were published in 2007, Appendix B3)VeloCity Munich presentaion report. http://www.nationaler-radverkehrsplan.de/eu-bund-laender/eu/velocity/schedule.phtml, http://www.nationaler-radverkehrsplan.de/eu-bund-laender/eu/velocity/presentations/velocity2007_pp_17c_long_public.pdf Colin at cycling ( talk) 09:11, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
McDermott and Klug 1982, "Difference in head injuries of pedal cyclist and motorcyclist casualties in Victoria", reported 73 skull fractures for pedal cyclists compared with 31 for motorcyclists and concluded that pedal cyclists had a significant greater incident of fractured vault of the skull. They were mainly comparing adult motorcyclists (96%) to cyclists aged less 17 years of age (73%). Adult skull stiffness is higher than for children therefore they were not quite comparing like with like. They reported 181 pedal cyclist fatalities compared with 451 for motorcyclists. The travel data available for 1984/5 (about 7 years after their study period) detailed bicyclists spending 114,500 hours per day cycling in Victoria compared with 17,500 hours per day for motorcycling. Relating time of travel to skull fractures shows motorcyclists incur nearly three times that of bicyclists, a factor of 278% and have a fatality rate 16.3 higher than bicyclists and the overall injury rate for motorcyclists was 16.1 times higher. Motorcyclists generally wearing helmets were 16 times more likely to be killed or injured and nearly 3 times more likely to suffer a skull fracture compared with bicyclists who were generally not wearing helmets. With hindsight it was a mistake for McDermott and Klug not to relate injury and death to time spent travelling, making their findings unsuitable for considering overall safety. In addition they reported having no information on the cause of death. Their recommendation for a coordinated campaign, involving the Royal Australasin College of Surgeons, road safety and traffic authorities, the Educational Department, school principals' and parents' councils, and the media to increase helmet wearing rates was not based on reliable methods. Both McDermott and Klug were members of the Road Trauma Committee, Royal Australian College of Surgeons that requested the Government of Victoria to introduce bicycle helmet legislation.
Wikipedia has a clear policies of no original research and no synthesis of published material that advances a position in WP articles. Please use this section to document possible violations of these policies in this article. Tim C ( talk) 20:59, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
In the History section, the article currently states:
Reporting the results of the McDermott and Klug study is fine, as is reporting the 1985/86 travel survey data for cyclists and motorcyclists (although relevance is marginal IMHO). However, the next sentence, "Per hour of travel motorcyclists generally wearing helmets were more likely to be killed or suffer a skull fracture compared with bicyclists who were generally not wearing helmets." is unreferenced and appears to be a synthesis of the two preceding sources in order to imply that unhelmeted cycling is safer than helmeted motorcycling. That may or may not be the case, but drawing such a conclusion in the article is synthesis, and given the following sentence about McDermott's and Klug committee membership, the intent of this synthesis seems to be to cast doubt on McDermott and Klug in some way. I think the synthesis should be removed, because it violates WP policy. Tim C ( talk) 20:59, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
The information was included in the 2007 Velocity reports on cycling. Appendix 'Mistakes in helmet assessments from Australia' B3 [2] [3] McDermott and Klug were authors of a helmet report that by not relating to exposure gave the impression that cyclists were more at risk of head injury than motorcyclists. They were also part of a key group who had contact with the Government. Including these details in the History section helps to explain how the law appeared to be justisfed. Adding ref to artcile. Colin at cycling ( talk) 09:11, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
I have added Citation needed tags to two of the Census data charts currently in this article. Clicking on these charts reveals that they were created by WP user Dorre, who does not have a user profile page. A WP user name does not constitute an identified and reliable source, as WP policy requires for all material which appears in WP article. The source of the data used in these graphs is provided by Dorre, but that is insufficient - a reference to where the graphic itself has been elsewhere published is required - otherwise these charts must be construed as original research, which is not permitted in WP articles. The graphs present a particular interpretation of the source data, as evinced by discussion about them by their author and Jake Olivier elsewhere on the Talk page. Therefore, their source must be made clear, or they should be removed. Tim C ( talk) 02:25, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
I have edited the statement added by User:Colin at cycling regarding the gaoling of a female minor in the NT for failing to pay helmet fines. The problem is that there appears to be just a single source for this, and that source is a 1998 report in a UK newspaper for teachers, not in Australian mainstream news media. Therefore there must be some doubt about the accuracy and verifiability of the report, and I have tagged it accordingly as a single source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim.churches ( talk • contribs) 21:37, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I would like to draw attention to the WP policy 'Self-published as sources on themselves'
The above suggests that the 'non-primary source' tag should be removed from Sue Abbott's report of her legal challenges (substantiated by http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/heady-freedom-as-judge-agrees-helmet-laws-are-unnecessary-20100827-13vz2.html ). The same probably applied to Alan Todd's comments about his wife. Dorre ( talk) 21:18, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
User:Dorre has questioned an edit I made to a reference to a Norwegian report:
Personally, I'm at a loss to understand some of his [ User:Tim.churches ] edits, for example he "Corrected reference to Hoye and Elvik (not Erke and Elvik as stated)" I clicked on the link to the reference, a pdf file which lists the authors as Alena Erke and Rune Elvik on the front page.
The correct reference is indeed Erke and Elvik. I was mislead by this page about the report in question, , on their institition's web site, which clearly gives the authorship as Høye & Elvik: https://www.toi.no/article19378-29.html Presumably Alena Erke changed her name to Alena Høye at some stage. I trust that this adequately explains the rationale for the edit. Tim C ( talk) 04:01, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
User:Kiwikiped recently made this edit: (Deleted " but did not provide any case law to support this assertion" in relation to a quote from an article in a peer-review journal. This seems to be a distinctly non-NPOV comment on the article as so inappropriate, but correct me if I am wrong.)
This is just a note about why I consider that text appropriate and not in violation of non-NPOV. An article in the NZ Medical Journal is given as the authority for the text in question. However, on investigation of that source, an article written by Colin F Clarke, the only information contained in it on possible compensation discrimination is as follows:
Unfortunately, no references at all are given in support of this assertion in the NZ Medical Journal article - no case law, nor other documented examples. Thus this appears to be an unsupported assertion by the author, and thus, I felt, warranted the qualification I added in the WP article. The principle is that just because an assertion is made in an article in a peer-reviewed journal doesn't mean it is automatically reliable - there is an expectation that such assertions, if repeated in WP articles, are themselves supported by authority to reasonable external references (or by reported data as the case may be). For these reasons, I don't think the qualification represents a non-NPOV and I propose to undo the edit. It is also worth pointing out that the article referenced was in a NZ medical journal and is about the NZ bicycle helmet laws, whereas this WP article is about bicycle helmets in Australia. Thus it is a stretch to use such an article as an authority for assertions about possible discrimination in compensation cases for road traffic accidents in Australia. Tim C ( talk) 19:59, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
→ Colin at cycling ( talk) 09:41, 18 March 2013 (UTC) The NZ article was an evalaution of their helmet law and included several aspects. Mention of discrimination was inserted in the text, summary and conclusions. To decide on discrimination requires a full consideration of the issues and the report provided for this level of consideration. The discrimination part was a general statement applying if compensation was being reduced because helmets were not worn. In part the example given was from the UK showing that other road users also had similar proportions of head injuries to cyclists. Australian legal opinion states that compensation can be reduced by 25% if not wearing a helmet. The NZ report mentions “Erke and Elvik (Norwegian researchers) 200710 stated: ‘There is evidence of increased accident risk per cycling-km for cyclists wearing a helmet. In Australia and NZ, the increase is estimated to be around 14 percent. It assessed a range of issues in deciding Discrimination can occur in accident compensation cases where a cyclist was not wearing a helmet, compared to pedestrians or indeed motor vehicle occupants who received head injuries. The helmet laws result in unfair compensation and a biased legal process. The statement was supported by the previous details with approximately 4 times more pedestrians dying from head injury than cyclists. Evidence to support the statement was provided in the details and the whole report. The article was peer reviewed and did not require additional references to support the above statement, it was considered acceptable.
In the UK there has been discussions about the reduced compensation aspect over a number of years, so it was widely known without providing detailed references.
Adding " but did not provide any case law to support this assertion" questions the statement that was not done in the peer reviewed article. If anyone wants to challenge the statement they need to write a suitable article and have peer review or perhaps refer to a Human Rights court hearing.
The article coming from New Zealand who also have an all age helmet law (following the Australian example)and have similar proportions of cyclist to pedestrian deaths, indicating that it is suitable for including in the discussions. On balance leaving out " but did not provide any case law to support this assertion" is the more appropaite action. Colin at cycling ( talk) 09:41, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps a problem here is that the website appears to be biased towards helmets, and they don't seem to give both sides to the debate. That is what I think anyway. Numbermaniac - T - C 00:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
User:Colin at cycling added mention of the de Jong health benefit model of mandatory helmet laws into the section in this article titled "Health implications of bicycle helmets legislation". I removed this mention and reference because de Jong, although he is an Australian researcher, specifically did not evaluate the Australian case in his paper (he only looked at North American and European countries), and also his work and related work is aleady covered in the main WP article on bicycle helmets Bicycle helmet. The mention of de Jong was restored by User:Colin at cycling, and so I made the description of de Jong's work slightly more precise and added mention of the Newboald model, which was published in the same issue of the same journal (Risk Analysis), on the very next page to the de Jong paper. In fact, the Newbold paper was a constructive critique of the de Jong model - which came to a slightly different conclusion than de Jong with respect to the health benefit of mandatory helmet laws in the US case. Thus, the de Jong paper should not be mentioned in a WP article without also mentioning the Newbold paper too. My view is the neither paper need be discussed in this article on helmets in Australia, for the reasons set out above. But if they are discussed here, then BOTH must be mentioned in order to maintain a NPOV. Tim C ( talk) 23:46, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Currently there are some 13 references to material on the Bicycle Helmet Research Foundation web site. Given that it is a single-issue web site, I have sought opinions at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Bicycle_Helmet_Research_Foundation on whether it is a suitable authority for the relevant assertions which cite it in this article. Please provide feedback on this question in the Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Bicycle_Helmet_Research_Foundation section of the RS noticeboard. Tim C ( talk) 02:25, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Seeking to remove these references seems a bit strange, but that doesn't mean doing so is wrong as I am no authority. This article seems to be a fair attempt to present a topic in a NPOV in which there are very strongly held opposing POVs. In doing so it references material from sources from both camps, it surely needs to do this to back up the material presented. For example it references material from Governments which passed the laws, which unsurprisingly supports the laws, as well as referencing material from those who oppose the laws; that would seem to be the balanced approach. Lobby groups; be they for the protection of animals, or against some law or other, etc.; tend to be focussed by nature, to reject references to them because of this inherent nature seems unbalanced. In an article discussing, say, battery farming, I'd expect to see references to material by both those supporting such farming and those opposing it - to include either one to the exclusion of the other would be a non-NPOV article surely? Kiwikiped ( talk) 15:43, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Reliable sources are usually required to have "editorial oversight". Just glancing through their editorial board members shows that it is about 50:50 split between experts (university professors, researchers or consultants in the field and the like) and laypersons (activists, GPs etc). I'm not overly familiar with the finer points of determining reliability, but given their obvious POV, it is a bit of a red flag. That said, the data they quote seems to be legit, and their list of sources is immense. Perhaps it would do, where possible, to quote the source material direct rather than the BHRF, since most of the sources seem to be NPOV. Certainly better than citing an interest group 13 times. -- Yeti Hunter ( talk) 11:12, 21 March 2013 (UTC) Edit: I came here from your request at the sciences RFC noticeboard
User:Dorre muses (above): "If Tim have ever seen equally incorrect on the BHRF website, I expect he would have complained about it immediately." Well, I can say that your expectation is incorrect - I am not in the business of correcting the BHRF site - that is the job of the site owner and its Editorial Board. My only concern is whether the BHRF web site is a suitably reliable reference for this and related WP articles. But since you ask, here is something that the BRHF Editorial Board might wish to correct: on this page, research by Voukelatos and Rissel is described: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1207.html?NKey=22 - with a footnoting noting that the study contained serious errors, but failing to mentioned that the study was formally and completely retracted by the journal which published it. The study is also listed (with broken web links to the paper) here: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1160.html and here: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1146.html - in both cases without any mention that the paper contained serious errors and had been retracted (indeed, citation of papers after they have been formally retracted is a highly unusually practice in peer-reviewed scientific discourse). Yet these pages on the cyclehelmets.org site are clearly maintained, because references to much more recent studies have been added to them. Tim C ( talk) 04:37, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Here is another example of the selectivity of the information offered on the BHRF cyclehelmets.org site: there is a link titled "Cutting through the controversy about helmet effectiveness" at the very top of the cyclehelmets.org home page, leading to this page: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1249.html which is about the de Jong cost-benefit model of hypothetical all-age mandatory helmet laws. The reference for this study is: de Jong, Piet (May 2012). "The Health Impact of Mandatory Bicycle Helmet Laws". Risk Analysis 32 (5): pp782–790. Fine, but there is no mention whatsoever of the response to the de Jong model by Newbold, which was published on the very next page of the same issue of the same journal (Newbold, Stephen C. (May 2012). "Examining the Health-Risk Tradeoffs of Mandatory Bicycle Helmet Laws". Risk Analysis 32 (5): pp791–798.). Newbold critically examined the de Jong model, and far from dismissing it, he suggested various improvements to it and identified parameters in it which require further research in order to quantify accurately (such as exercise type substitution behaviour). Newbold used published US data in his refined version of the de Jong model and found that mandatory bicycle helmet laws would seem to have positive net public health benefits in the US, although he warned that results from both his model and that of de Jong needed to be treated as very provisional due to uncertainty around values of key parameters to them. In fact, there doesn't seem to be any reference to Newbold's paper at all on the BHRF cyclehelmets.org web site. It is this sort of selectivity in the evidence presented that calls the reliability of the BHRF as a source for WP articles into question. Tim C ( talk) 01:31, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Response by User:Linda.m.ward
Tim Churches has previously pointed out that the studies that appear on the BHRF web site as supportive of helmet effectiveness or promotion are accompanied by critiques claiming that the study is invalid or fatally flawed, but that the studies listed as being sceptical of helmet effectiveness of promotion are not accompanied by negative critiques. I too had noticed this lack of balance when I first stumbled on the site a couple of years ago, and have consequently not spent a lot of time on the site, but have encountered much evidence of inaccuracy or unreliability in the information presented.
The 'Published evidence sceptical of helmet effectiveness or promotion' page ( http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1146.html), contains 2 articles that most certainly do NOT 'cast doubt on the effectiveness of cycle helmets in reducing head injuries (at least serious head injuries), or on the wisdom of helmet promotion or laws', and one article (critical of the helmet law) that was retracted more than a year ago.
With respect to an article by Elvik (Accident Analysis & Prevention, 2011;43(3):1245-1251. 2011), the page states that 'Attewell et al influenced by publication and time-trend biases. When controlled for, the protective effects of helmets are smaller. Adding new studies, no overall benefit of helmets found.' Elvik noted that 'the re-analysis shows smaller safety benefits associated with the use of bicycle helmets than the original study', and reported the following odds ratios for fatal, brain and head injuries - fatal injury 0.27 in Attewell's original study, 0.23 in Elvik's re-analysis - brain injury 0.42 in the original study, 0.47 in the re-analysis - head injury 0.40 in the original study, 0.58 in the re-analysis Re head injuries, Elvik wrote: 'Do bicycle helmets reduce the risk of injury to the head, face or neck? With respect to head injury, the answer is clearly yes, and the re-analysis of the meta-analysis reported by Attewell et al.(2001) in this paper has not changed this answer.'
As already noted by Tim Churches, an article by Voukelatos and Rissel (Australasian College of Road Safety, ACRS 2010;21(3):50-55. 2010.) that was retracted in early 2011 is still listed on the page. The page described the study that was retracted 2 years ago as showing that 'Helmets were not the main reason for the drop in head injuries in Australia since helmet laws were introduced. General improvement in road safety from random breath testing and other measures were probably the cause.'. Many studies published after the retraction have been added to the page (7 in 2012 alone), yet this study has still not been removed from the page.
In describing an AIHW article (Serious injury due to land transport accidents, Australia, 2003-04), the page states that 'Wearing a helmet seems to have no discernible impact on the risk of head injury'. The AIHW report does not even mention bicycle helmets.
I have scanned only a few other pages on the BHRF site, and would not consider any of them to be reliable . . .
'Changes in cycle use in Australia' ( http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1194.html) cites an SA study as showing a reduction in cycling to school, notes that the study 'likely' under-estimated that actual decline, and fails to note that the decline in cycling to school in the SA study was very similar to the declines in cycling to school in NSW and Victoria. The article also fails to note that the SA study found that there was no (statistically significant) evidence of a reduction in adult cycling, that prior to the helmet law cycling to school comprised about 20% of cycling in that age group, and that after the helmet law there was an increase in cycling to/around other venues of similar magnitude to the drop in cycling to school.
'Helmet laws: Northern Territory' ( http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1114.html) claims that 'Helmet use is now low in the NT . . . Estimates in 2004 suggested that 15% - 20% of cyclists continue to wear helmets, mostly "serious" cyclists'. I live in Darwin and have been cycling almost every day (commuter and utility) for about 10 years. The helmet wearing rate is much higher than the 15-20% alleged, probably at least 80%, ie. it the number of cyclists NOT wearing helmets would be at most 15%-20%.
'Head Injuries and Helmet Laws in Australia and New Zealand' ( http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1241.html) contains numerous examples of 'overlooking' evidence that runs counter to the claim that the helmet law was/is a bad thing. With respect to the most obvious examples, the article
Linda.m.ward ( talk) 07:18, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
It is wrong to attempt to dismiss a particular information source on the basis of an alleged bias, rather than on the basis on the accuracy of the information itself. For example, CRAG openly states where it stands. Not everybody agrees with that position, however some of the information provided on the site is still useful. For example, this page summarising surveys of cycling after the helmet law. ( http://crag.asn.au/?p=174). This is informative, described in the neutral tone, and properly referenced. To dismiss it on the basis of not agreeing with CRAG's position seems biased.
The same applies to BHRF. Attempts being made to dismiss material from BHRF on the basis of not agreeing with the position of some of its members seems biased. This discussion should be based on facts, not on disagreeing with some members of a group. Linda Ward long list of statements she disagree with on BHRF is interesting. However, it is not proper to attempt to denigrate it without providing BHRF the opportunity to reply. It would be more appropriate to contact BHRF directly and let them know of statements believed to be incorrect on their site, providing supporting evidence. For example, claiming that the helmet wearing rate in the northern territory is 80% based on personal observations is no more generalisable that somebody else perception. A survey is needed to support such statements.
It is odd that an avid helmet advocate attempts to dismiss references from CRAG on the basis that CRAG is open & honest about their position, and now attempts to do the same about BHRF. Particularly while quoting studies without disclosing relevant conflict of interests nor disclosing that they have been conducted by helmet advocates. This is deceitful. These studies could be critiqued in a similar manner as the way BHRF material is being dismissed. Effectively, adopting the approach suggested means punishing honesty (ie. discounting information from sources that have the honesty to state their position), and rewarding deceit (to present as neutral information from sources that attempt to conceal their position, or to pretend to have a neutral position while being helmet advocates).
I do not claim to speak on behalf of Wikipedia, but it seems dangerous for Wikipedia to tolerate such an approach. Rewarding misleading & deceptive conduct can only encourage it, leading Wikipedia to becoming a platform hijacked by well-organized, well-funded deceitful special interest groups.
The key is to disclose conflicts of interest when relevant. For example, it would be inappropriate to dismiss the summary of survey on the CRAG site based on CRAG stated position. The same goes for BHRF. If believe that the information posted is inaccurate, then explain why based on facts. If you are aware of an undisclosed conflict of interest, then state it (rather than try to censor the information), so that people can make a fully informed judgement. Dismissing information on the basis that you don't agree with the source stated position is a form of bias.
Arguments must be based on facts, not on disagreement with parties stated position. If you disagree with a statement referenced by BHRF, then argue based on facts, rather try to dismiss it based on the source being BHRF. Harvey4931 ( talk) 21:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)