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This article has no introduction, and needs one. It also needs citations at the bottom. Xaa 23:57, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
The Hebrew article he:מידות ומשקלות תורניים is very good and should probably replace this section. It includes Talmudic measurements as well, gives examples of uses of the units in Jewish law, and has a nice introduction. I'll try to translate it myself if I have time, but I hope someone else gets to it first.
The author states that 1 talent weights between 46.7 and 56.7 kg of silver or gold. Knowing that 1 Talent is 3,000 Shekels, and that 1 Shekel is about 11.5 g, one would expect a Talent to weight 34 kg.
These measurements aren't obsolete, and I think that either this article should be removed from the group, or the category itself should be renamed.
I propose moving this page to Torah weights and measures, since the units are still used and discussed for many situations in Jewish life. If no one objects, I'll do this soon. nadav ( talk) 00:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
A similar page exists at Jewish and Biblical Units of Measurement. Perhaps they should be merged (or at least cross-referenced)? Chessbot 01:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Anyone interested in pursuing this further? It looks very necessary to me. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 14:41, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Article merged: See old talk-page here Hippychick 00:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hippychickali ( talk • contribs)
This verse in 1 Kings 7:23 initially appears to imply that Pi = 3. However when the cubit is measured at a cubit and a hand breadth it's still incorrect, in this instance it's a circle. So there's added 2 hand breadths, using this calculation proper Pi is approached. Pi = (30 cubit)/((10cubit)-(2 handbreadth)). The reason you do this is the chaldron has thickness and the brim is the inner brim. Understanding exactly what is in Ezekial as measuring is unclear to me, is it a similar situation? If so, does this imply what's been stated in this article, that definition is just randomly variant. Or is it specifically altered by the context of the measurement? CheskiChips ( talk) 14:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
the relation between an olive and an egg is subject to argument. One opinion is two olives per egg, the other opinion is 3 olives per egg. Pollira ( talk) 06:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
In the article is said:
This is not correct !
That what you name 'Omer' is written 'Ghomer' in THE OLD TESTAMENT, Exodus 16,36.
4.249.63.247 ( talk) 15:08, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Using the established 22 liter measure for a bath, the measurements of the Bronze Sea (1Kings 7:23-26) yield the measurement of a cubit.
I've detailed this on the following webpage: http://www.yihyeh.com/the-bronze-sea.html
Since the walls were sloped like the "rim of a cup, like a lily blossom" the volume can be treated like a frustum of a cone for a more than reasonable approximation. A line of 30 cubits can be stretched around the Sea base. The rim-to-rim diameter (at top) was 10 cubits.
Since the Sea held 2000 baths (a known volume) and the measurements given in the passage yield just over 375¼ cubits³ a measurement of 19.269516" can be extrapolated. You938 ( talk) 05:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
This section treats ells and cubits as if they are two different things. Ell and cubit are both English words used to translate the Hebrew ammah. The English word cubit is derived from the Latin cubitum. Since this unit of measure fell out of general use in England at a fairly early date, it ceased to evolve and is used today mainly in the study of classical antiquity, archaeology (Egyptian, Sumerian, etc.) Biblical metrology, and perhaps for some religious observances. The ell, on the hand, (derived from an old German root meaning the same thing as cubit) was used well into the 19th century. In 1588 the English ell was standardized at 45 inches (apparently based on a double ell). By the 19th century, England also had three supplementary ells, the Scottish ell (37 inches), Flemish ell (27 inches) and French ell (54 inches). I think it might be a good idea to just stick with one or the other, either 'cubit' or 'ell', but not both (unless the other one is put in parentheses to indicate it is a synonym). Zyxwv99 ( talk) 17:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
I know there are no real scholarly, secular or religious, disagreements on the convention of saying that the biblical and talmudic day begins at dusk. But, where are the actual talmudic/biblical points of reference? -- Xact ( talk) 00:32, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
First, we're not using the COMMON ENGLISH name for the ammah (hint: it's "cubit").
Second, we have no even semiaccurate values on a page about measurements because we're entirely sourced to a 1906 tertiary source based on 19th century scholarship. This is not rocket science. Someone please use the Jewish Encyclopedia to note the historical uncertainty but then rebuild the article using modern sources, starting with Oxford.
Third, "Bible" and "Talmud" are not the names of a culture, which is what all of our other units of measurement pages are dabbed by. This needs to be moved to Hebrew units of measurement, Ancient Hebrew units of measurement, or (at minimum) the terser Biblical units of measurement. Any modern Talmudic or Jewish use derives from that and is entirely secondary. Further, if there is any modern use of these units apart from their reconstructed historic values, those need to be given and cited. — LlywelynII 20:03, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Interesting article that would seem to well-define, if not exactly define, the length of the tefach.
Why use opnions when there is something so definitive - what is actually found in physical evidence. Shenme ( talk) 06:03, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Beit rova is 10.2x10.2 amot not 10.5x10.5 2600:1011:B068:C906:6097:BE1B:B08C:3D31 ( talk) 19:57, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Reference 10 just says "content". what does that even mean!? -- Bumpf said this! ooh clicky clicky! [insert witty meta-text on wiki-sigs here] 00:02, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has no introduction, and needs one. It also needs citations at the bottom. Xaa 23:57, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
The Hebrew article he:מידות ומשקלות תורניים is very good and should probably replace this section. It includes Talmudic measurements as well, gives examples of uses of the units in Jewish law, and has a nice introduction. I'll try to translate it myself if I have time, but I hope someone else gets to it first.
The author states that 1 talent weights between 46.7 and 56.7 kg of silver or gold. Knowing that 1 Talent is 3,000 Shekels, and that 1 Shekel is about 11.5 g, one would expect a Talent to weight 34 kg.
These measurements aren't obsolete, and I think that either this article should be removed from the group, or the category itself should be renamed.
I propose moving this page to Torah weights and measures, since the units are still used and discussed for many situations in Jewish life. If no one objects, I'll do this soon. nadav ( talk) 00:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
A similar page exists at Jewish and Biblical Units of Measurement. Perhaps they should be merged (or at least cross-referenced)? Chessbot 01:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Anyone interested in pursuing this further? It looks very necessary to me. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 14:41, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Article merged: See old talk-page here Hippychick 00:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hippychickali ( talk • contribs)
This verse in 1 Kings 7:23 initially appears to imply that Pi = 3. However when the cubit is measured at a cubit and a hand breadth it's still incorrect, in this instance it's a circle. So there's added 2 hand breadths, using this calculation proper Pi is approached. Pi = (30 cubit)/((10cubit)-(2 handbreadth)). The reason you do this is the chaldron has thickness and the brim is the inner brim. Understanding exactly what is in Ezekial as measuring is unclear to me, is it a similar situation? If so, does this imply what's been stated in this article, that definition is just randomly variant. Or is it specifically altered by the context of the measurement? CheskiChips ( talk) 14:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
the relation between an olive and an egg is subject to argument. One opinion is two olives per egg, the other opinion is 3 olives per egg. Pollira ( talk) 06:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
In the article is said:
This is not correct !
That what you name 'Omer' is written 'Ghomer' in THE OLD TESTAMENT, Exodus 16,36.
4.249.63.247 ( talk) 15:08, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Using the established 22 liter measure for a bath, the measurements of the Bronze Sea (1Kings 7:23-26) yield the measurement of a cubit.
I've detailed this on the following webpage: http://www.yihyeh.com/the-bronze-sea.html
Since the walls were sloped like the "rim of a cup, like a lily blossom" the volume can be treated like a frustum of a cone for a more than reasonable approximation. A line of 30 cubits can be stretched around the Sea base. The rim-to-rim diameter (at top) was 10 cubits.
Since the Sea held 2000 baths (a known volume) and the measurements given in the passage yield just over 375¼ cubits³ a measurement of 19.269516" can be extrapolated. You938 ( talk) 05:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
This section treats ells and cubits as if they are two different things. Ell and cubit are both English words used to translate the Hebrew ammah. The English word cubit is derived from the Latin cubitum. Since this unit of measure fell out of general use in England at a fairly early date, it ceased to evolve and is used today mainly in the study of classical antiquity, archaeology (Egyptian, Sumerian, etc.) Biblical metrology, and perhaps for some religious observances. The ell, on the hand, (derived from an old German root meaning the same thing as cubit) was used well into the 19th century. In 1588 the English ell was standardized at 45 inches (apparently based on a double ell). By the 19th century, England also had three supplementary ells, the Scottish ell (37 inches), Flemish ell (27 inches) and French ell (54 inches). I think it might be a good idea to just stick with one or the other, either 'cubit' or 'ell', but not both (unless the other one is put in parentheses to indicate it is a synonym). Zyxwv99 ( talk) 17:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
I know there are no real scholarly, secular or religious, disagreements on the convention of saying that the biblical and talmudic day begins at dusk. But, where are the actual talmudic/biblical points of reference? -- Xact ( talk) 00:32, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
First, we're not using the COMMON ENGLISH name for the ammah (hint: it's "cubit").
Second, we have no even semiaccurate values on a page about measurements because we're entirely sourced to a 1906 tertiary source based on 19th century scholarship. This is not rocket science. Someone please use the Jewish Encyclopedia to note the historical uncertainty but then rebuild the article using modern sources, starting with Oxford.
Third, "Bible" and "Talmud" are not the names of a culture, which is what all of our other units of measurement pages are dabbed by. This needs to be moved to Hebrew units of measurement, Ancient Hebrew units of measurement, or (at minimum) the terser Biblical units of measurement. Any modern Talmudic or Jewish use derives from that and is entirely secondary. Further, if there is any modern use of these units apart from their reconstructed historic values, those need to be given and cited. — LlywelynII 20:03, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Interesting article that would seem to well-define, if not exactly define, the length of the tefach.
Why use opnions when there is something so definitive - what is actually found in physical evidence. Shenme ( talk) 06:03, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Beit rova is 10.2x10.2 amot not 10.5x10.5 2600:1011:B068:C906:6097:BE1B:B08C:3D31 ( talk) 19:57, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Reference 10 just says "content". what does that even mean!? -- Bumpf said this! ooh clicky clicky! [insert witty meta-text on wiki-sigs here] 00:02, 17 June 2022 (UTC)