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"Bey is a common Turkish surname." This apparently harmless statement has been deleted, whether knowledgeably or as another of those opaque Turkic "issues" I can't tell. (Is it Albanian or something?) I don't have an Istanbul phonebook. The Turkish Wikipedia returns 24 hits for "bey" out of 2012 articles. I'm at a loss. Can someone help out? -- Wetman 12:05, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
bey is the most common used title like MR. in English, I have never heard of it as a surname becouse it is used after the name like Mehmet Bey, Osman Bey, so if is was used as a surname it would be really odd.
I moved this here, without editing: "*Bey used in The Bahamas a common slang used to replace the word boy. Often ended at the end of sentences similarly to the way "dude" is used 24.244.133.152 17:53, 9 August 2006 (UTC) Oscar Moore" -- Wetman 02:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
BEY (a modern Turk. word, the older form being beg, cf. Pers. baig), the administrator of a district, now generally an honorific title throughout the Turkish empire; the granting of this in Egypt is made by the sultan of Turkey through the khedive. In Tunis "bey" has become the hereditary title of the reigning sovereigns (see Tunisia).--3210 16:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
{{NextPrev|Bexley|Beybazar}}
I believe that in modern "Soveriegn Movements" and the "Moorish" movement that many men add the name "Bey" to their name to declare themselves as belonging to that movement, and as a personal expression (as they consider themselves under the power of no other Principality but themselves).
(You can look it up... I've met "Moorish" representative in Court, but they do not have licenses to practice law and Judges tell them to sit down, but they insist that the U.S. Constitution allows them certain things that "Constitutional Law", however, does NOT grant them (i.e. ability to represent an individual or give legal advise).
The first Turkish immigration from Asia Minor took place under the Byzantine emperors before the conquest of the country. The first purely Turkish town, Yenije-Vardar, was founded on the ruins of Vardar in 1362. After the capture of Salonica (1430), a strong Turkish population was settled in the city, and similar colonies were founded in Monastir, Ochrida, Serres, Drama and other important places. In many of these towns half or more of the population is still Turkish. A series of military colonies were subsequently established at various points of strategic importance along the principal lines of communication. Before 1360 large numbers of nomad shepherds, or Yuruks, from the district of Konya, in Asia Minor, had settled in the country; their descendants are still known as Konariotes. Further immigration from this region took place from time to time up to the middle of the 18th century. After the establishment of the feudal system in 1397 many of the Seljuk noble families came over from Asia Minor; their descendants may be recognized among the beys or Moslem landowners in southern Macedonia . At the beginning of the 18th century the Turkish population was very considerable, but since that time it has continuously decreased. A low birth rate, the exhaustion of the male population by military service, and great mortality from epidemics, against which Moslem fatalism takes no pre-cautions, have brought about a decline which has latterly been hastened by emigration
The Turkish rural population is found in three principal groups:
Though Effendi is a common spelling, for different reasons of which none is relevant to the Turkish /Turkic spelling, the only correct orthography since Turkish have been romanized is efendi. Korenyuk 18:16, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Korenyuk, I think you misconceived something. Bayan is not the feminine equivalent of Bey. Bey's feminine counterpart is Hanım and Bay's feminine counterpart is Bayan. Bey or Hanım always comes after the name, and contrarily Bay or Bayan always comes before the name. Although Bey and Bay share the same origin, we make a clear distinction between them. In this case your comparison in the article becomes wrong. Any comments welcome! Chapultepec 22:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I am dubious about these items, which I have moved here from the body of the article. Would anyone care to justify them? In any case I'd suggest they need a reliable source. Man vyi ( talk) 13:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
plz.. removed beyzada redirect... 18:43, 31 Aug 2012 User:Beypeople
I have removed a POV section claiming that there are scholars claiming a derivation of "beg" from "baj". Three sources were attached to this claim:
Three sources in Croatian (!) and not a single one of them actually hinting to a connection of "beg" and "baj" ([sic!]; the word is pronunced "bai"), but simply explaining the meaning of "baj". If this is a serious claim, there should be no difficulty in finding a scholarly English publication. As for the word "bai" itself, it is generally agreed that it's also a loan-word from Iranian, in fact from the same Indo-European source: *bhag-. See Iranica: "Turkish took the title bäg, beg, and later bey; in early Turkish in Brāhmī script it was bhek, and in Byzantine Greek the Khazar title was written mékh. The form bägräk occurs in a Turfan Manichean source. In Arabic script the Turkish title was bag, baḵ, and bāk. ... Through connection with “possessions” the Iranian bāy gave Turkish bai “rich,” whence Mongol bayan “rich.”" ( Harold Walter Bailey in Baga, Encyclopaedia Iranica). -- Lysozym ( talk) 11:52, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
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Turkic isn't Indo-European, so I wouldn't ask but for the possibility of borrowing from nearby Persians or other Indo-Europeans. Is there any chance that "beylik" is, by some very long route, the same word as "bailiwick", which would make a "bey" the same thing as a "bailiff"? 2604:2000:1383:8B0B:103:D4DB:AD9A:6C92 ( talk) 21:16, 9 August 2020 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson
Bey is clearly the same title as Baig. These should be merged. On another note, it might be moved depending on which one is more common because I'm confident "baig" is not a common spelling, and "bey" is largely used in Turkish. Aintabli ( talk) 21:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Baig is a surname a very common surname in South Asia belonging to lineage of Mughal-Timurids who are Mongol in origin. It is unlinked in lineage and descent to the the Turkic use of the word 'Bey' which is not at all common in South Asia. The Timurid-Mughals with their descent of Baig come with their own history, naming conventions and different ranking in the Imperial structure of the Mughal Empire. In Turkic cultures 'Bey' just means 'Mr.'. In Mongolic culture of Timurid-Mughals in South Asia, it is the surname of a Prince of the ruling family and 'Begum/Baigum' for the Princesses.
Given widely different connotations, these two pages should be unmerged 2001:1A10:1590:4901:C851:D7D5:DFB3:53BE ( talk) 16:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
There is no documentation as suchNo sources == no content Neither Geni nor LinkedIn are reliable sources, and the article from Geni reads
The name "Baig" is derived from the Turkic word Beg, or Bey, anyways.
I'm merely restoring the well written article that's been on wikipedia since agesNo, that it stayed as a standalone page does not mean that was appropriate. A quick glance at the article would tell one that it was a poorly-sourced WP:REDUNDANTFORK. Your job here is to prove that Baig and Bey are completely unrelated, and at this point, you have not shown any reliable sources, and even the non-RS you've shared tells the opposite. Please stop edit-warring until consensus supports your view.
![]() | This article was nominated for merging with Baig on 18 November 2023. The result of the discussion was merged. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Bey article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Bey be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
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"Bey is a common Turkish surname." This apparently harmless statement has been deleted, whether knowledgeably or as another of those opaque Turkic "issues" I can't tell. (Is it Albanian or something?) I don't have an Istanbul phonebook. The Turkish Wikipedia returns 24 hits for "bey" out of 2012 articles. I'm at a loss. Can someone help out? -- Wetman 12:05, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
bey is the most common used title like MR. in English, I have never heard of it as a surname becouse it is used after the name like Mehmet Bey, Osman Bey, so if is was used as a surname it would be really odd.
I moved this here, without editing: "*Bey used in The Bahamas a common slang used to replace the word boy. Often ended at the end of sentences similarly to the way "dude" is used 24.244.133.152 17:53, 9 August 2006 (UTC) Oscar Moore" -- Wetman 02:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
BEY (a modern Turk. word, the older form being beg, cf. Pers. baig), the administrator of a district, now generally an honorific title throughout the Turkish empire; the granting of this in Egypt is made by the sultan of Turkey through the khedive. In Tunis "bey" has become the hereditary title of the reigning sovereigns (see Tunisia).--3210 16:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
{{NextPrev|Bexley|Beybazar}}
I believe that in modern "Soveriegn Movements" and the "Moorish" movement that many men add the name "Bey" to their name to declare themselves as belonging to that movement, and as a personal expression (as they consider themselves under the power of no other Principality but themselves).
(You can look it up... I've met "Moorish" representative in Court, but they do not have licenses to practice law and Judges tell them to sit down, but they insist that the U.S. Constitution allows them certain things that "Constitutional Law", however, does NOT grant them (i.e. ability to represent an individual or give legal advise).
The first Turkish immigration from Asia Minor took place under the Byzantine emperors before the conquest of the country. The first purely Turkish town, Yenije-Vardar, was founded on the ruins of Vardar in 1362. After the capture of Salonica (1430), a strong Turkish population was settled in the city, and similar colonies were founded in Monastir, Ochrida, Serres, Drama and other important places. In many of these towns half or more of the population is still Turkish. A series of military colonies were subsequently established at various points of strategic importance along the principal lines of communication. Before 1360 large numbers of nomad shepherds, or Yuruks, from the district of Konya, in Asia Minor, had settled in the country; their descendants are still known as Konariotes. Further immigration from this region took place from time to time up to the middle of the 18th century. After the establishment of the feudal system in 1397 many of the Seljuk noble families came over from Asia Minor; their descendants may be recognized among the beys or Moslem landowners in southern Macedonia . At the beginning of the 18th century the Turkish population was very considerable, but since that time it has continuously decreased. A low birth rate, the exhaustion of the male population by military service, and great mortality from epidemics, against which Moslem fatalism takes no pre-cautions, have brought about a decline which has latterly been hastened by emigration
The Turkish rural population is found in three principal groups:
Though Effendi is a common spelling, for different reasons of which none is relevant to the Turkish /Turkic spelling, the only correct orthography since Turkish have been romanized is efendi. Korenyuk 18:16, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Korenyuk, I think you misconceived something. Bayan is not the feminine equivalent of Bey. Bey's feminine counterpart is Hanım and Bay's feminine counterpart is Bayan. Bey or Hanım always comes after the name, and contrarily Bay or Bayan always comes before the name. Although Bey and Bay share the same origin, we make a clear distinction between them. In this case your comparison in the article becomes wrong. Any comments welcome! Chapultepec 22:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I am dubious about these items, which I have moved here from the body of the article. Would anyone care to justify them? In any case I'd suggest they need a reliable source. Man vyi ( talk) 13:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
plz.. removed beyzada redirect... 18:43, 31 Aug 2012 User:Beypeople
I have removed a POV section claiming that there are scholars claiming a derivation of "beg" from "baj". Three sources were attached to this claim:
Three sources in Croatian (!) and not a single one of them actually hinting to a connection of "beg" and "baj" ([sic!]; the word is pronunced "bai"), but simply explaining the meaning of "baj". If this is a serious claim, there should be no difficulty in finding a scholarly English publication. As for the word "bai" itself, it is generally agreed that it's also a loan-word from Iranian, in fact from the same Indo-European source: *bhag-. See Iranica: "Turkish took the title bäg, beg, and later bey; in early Turkish in Brāhmī script it was bhek, and in Byzantine Greek the Khazar title was written mékh. The form bägräk occurs in a Turfan Manichean source. In Arabic script the Turkish title was bag, baḵ, and bāk. ... Through connection with “possessions” the Iranian bāy gave Turkish bai “rich,” whence Mongol bayan “rich.”" ( Harold Walter Bailey in Baga, Encyclopaedia Iranica). -- Lysozym ( talk) 11:52, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Bey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:11, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Turkic isn't Indo-European, so I wouldn't ask but for the possibility of borrowing from nearby Persians or other Indo-Europeans. Is there any chance that "beylik" is, by some very long route, the same word as "bailiwick", which would make a "bey" the same thing as a "bailiff"? 2604:2000:1383:8B0B:103:D4DB:AD9A:6C92 ( talk) 21:16, 9 August 2020 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson
Bey is clearly the same title as Baig. These should be merged. On another note, it might be moved depending on which one is more common because I'm confident "baig" is not a common spelling, and "bey" is largely used in Turkish. Aintabli ( talk) 21:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Baig is a surname a very common surname in South Asia belonging to lineage of Mughal-Timurids who are Mongol in origin. It is unlinked in lineage and descent to the the Turkic use of the word 'Bey' which is not at all common in South Asia. The Timurid-Mughals with their descent of Baig come with their own history, naming conventions and different ranking in the Imperial structure of the Mughal Empire. In Turkic cultures 'Bey' just means 'Mr.'. In Mongolic culture of Timurid-Mughals in South Asia, it is the surname of a Prince of the ruling family and 'Begum/Baigum' for the Princesses.
Given widely different connotations, these two pages should be unmerged 2001:1A10:1590:4901:C851:D7D5:DFB3:53BE ( talk) 16:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
There is no documentation as suchNo sources == no content Neither Geni nor LinkedIn are reliable sources, and the article from Geni reads
The name "Baig" is derived from the Turkic word Beg, or Bey, anyways.
I'm merely restoring the well written article that's been on wikipedia since agesNo, that it stayed as a standalone page does not mean that was appropriate. A quick glance at the article would tell one that it was a poorly-sourced WP:REDUNDANTFORK. Your job here is to prove that Baig and Bey are completely unrelated, and at this point, you have not shown any reliable sources, and even the non-RS you've shared tells the opposite. Please stop edit-warring until consensus supports your view.