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The phrase rarely used is actually incorrect, as media analysts and business reporters use it infrequently to outline "rock and hard place" concepts without the well used cliche. see here -> [1]]. Andmark ( talk) 06:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
An insertion made by User:Rogermcnally, 1 June 2008 with the edit summary "added information about the city of Scylla using Stuart Gilberts study of Ulysses as a source" has been deleted. Identical information was added at Scylla. See Talk:Scylla. Thank you. -- Wetman ( talk) 07:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Why was the "Radio" section deleted? This section was previously included beneath the "Music" section, and referenced a radio drama production of Homer's Odyssey that featured Scylla and Charybdis. This information is in keeping with the other cited television and music releases in which Scylla and Charybdis appear. Those citations were left untouched, but the "Radio" section, and specifically the radio drama version of the Scylla and Charybdis story from Homer's Odyssey, was deleted. Why was this section cut from the article? Soundout ( talk) 00:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
This seems redundant with the individual Scylla and Charybdis articles, and I suggest deleting this one and transferring any necessary information into the individual articles. Xargque ( talk) 20:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Annonymous user wrote into the article: 'You should also note how Joyce references Scylla and Charybdis in the novel "Ulysses."', I am posting it here instead Xargque ( talk) 20:46, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
In all fairness: No one knows where Scylla and Charybdis was located. The Strait of Messina is only one suggested location. I feel the article should mention that -- Sparviere ( talk) 15:18, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
It is more or less synonymous with the phrase ‘between the devil and the deep sea’. -- Ved from Victoria Institutions ( talk) 15:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I took the liberty of removing the link to the band Trivium, as it is entirely irrelevant to the article, other than them having a song named Scylla and Charybdis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.185.3.165 ( talk) 11:59, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Xargque quite correctly remarked nearly two years ago that the article, with its concentration on the mythical status of Scylla and Charybdis, was redundant; the two 'monsters' already have much more detailed articles referring to them. I have therefore restyled this article so that its main emphasis is on idiomatic uses that incorporate the two as a unit. In doing this, I have also reinstated some cultural references that illustrate such usage. That does not mean that every reference to them is relevant. Many of the other instances plainly were not and were rightly removed. Having read the Trivium lyric, however, I have reinstated it. It has curiosity value and is evidence either of how popular the idiom remains or else of a higher state of literacy in a heavy metal band than one would have suspected! Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 18:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for riding to the rescue, Wetman. In bringing the language up to encyclopaedic standard, I finally decided that, since the mythical details are dealt with in separate articles, repetition of them here is irrelevant. This focuses the article much more on use of the idiom after Classical times. For that reason, I have left the incident of Odysseus' choice as an early instance of the kind of story from which the idiom and the proverb arise. What would you think of making the title 'Between Scylla and Charaybdis' so as to make the distinction clearer? Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 01:18, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the illustration inserted by User:Crasshopper for the following reasons:
This action has been taken following WP:IMAGE RELEVANCE guidelines. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 09:00, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
The Myth and Proverb section here mentions the Latin incidit in Scyllam cupiēns vītāre Charybdem (he runs into Scylla, wishing to avoid Charybdis) and compares it to jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. This may be so, but as the lesson of the Scylla & Charybdis myth is to choose the lesser of two evils (viz. Homer), and the modern idiom implies going from a bad situation to worse one, the comparison is unhelpful. So I have taken it out: As it is, the Latin, with the translation, is self-explanatory. I trust everyone is OK with that, Moonraker12 ( talk) 07:38, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Another problem is that the original dilemma (and the idiom drawn from it) suggest an inescapable choice, which is born out in the usage by Aneau, and by Monsarrat. OTOH, the Victorian examples suggest steering safely between two perils, which is something else again (I'm not familiar with the other references).
So I'm thinking we need to differentiate between the two uses (particularly as the latter interpretation seems to
still be around... Thoughts?
Moonraker12 (
talk)
07:56, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
@ Sweetpool50: You noticed that I made this edit, because the Alexandreis was earlier than the Adages: You reverted it, because, as you say, as it is more recent than Homer. So, how about we agree to simply remove the ambiguity? Moonraker12 ( talk) 23:17, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
OK Sweetpool50 ( talk) 23:29, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Upon finding an incompleted and broken-link reference to Joyce's use of the idiom in Ulysses, I did just a bit of cleaning up. In addition, making use of the literary critical concept of "styles" as a component of Joyce's structuring of Ulysses, I suggested that Stephen Dedalus' character could be seen as struggling with "Scylla and Charybdis" with regard to creativity (e.g. the naming of something both births the idea yet also pins it down). This is all drawn from Marilyn French's critique of Ulysses, which I cited.
I'm early on in a journey to take my Wikipedia editing beyond typos and broken links. Feedback on this attempt would be most welcome. Nephets ( talk) 15:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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The phrase rarely used is actually incorrect, as media analysts and business reporters use it infrequently to outline "rock and hard place" concepts without the well used cliche. see here -> [1]]. Andmark ( talk) 06:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
An insertion made by User:Rogermcnally, 1 June 2008 with the edit summary "added information about the city of Scylla using Stuart Gilberts study of Ulysses as a source" has been deleted. Identical information was added at Scylla. See Talk:Scylla. Thank you. -- Wetman ( talk) 07:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Why was the "Radio" section deleted? This section was previously included beneath the "Music" section, and referenced a radio drama production of Homer's Odyssey that featured Scylla and Charybdis. This information is in keeping with the other cited television and music releases in which Scylla and Charybdis appear. Those citations were left untouched, but the "Radio" section, and specifically the radio drama version of the Scylla and Charybdis story from Homer's Odyssey, was deleted. Why was this section cut from the article? Soundout ( talk) 00:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
This seems redundant with the individual Scylla and Charybdis articles, and I suggest deleting this one and transferring any necessary information into the individual articles. Xargque ( talk) 20:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Annonymous user wrote into the article: 'You should also note how Joyce references Scylla and Charybdis in the novel "Ulysses."', I am posting it here instead Xargque ( talk) 20:46, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
In all fairness: No one knows where Scylla and Charybdis was located. The Strait of Messina is only one suggested location. I feel the article should mention that -- Sparviere ( talk) 15:18, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
It is more or less synonymous with the phrase ‘between the devil and the deep sea’. -- Ved from Victoria Institutions ( talk) 15:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I took the liberty of removing the link to the band Trivium, as it is entirely irrelevant to the article, other than them having a song named Scylla and Charybdis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.185.3.165 ( talk) 11:59, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Xargque quite correctly remarked nearly two years ago that the article, with its concentration on the mythical status of Scylla and Charybdis, was redundant; the two 'monsters' already have much more detailed articles referring to them. I have therefore restyled this article so that its main emphasis is on idiomatic uses that incorporate the two as a unit. In doing this, I have also reinstated some cultural references that illustrate such usage. That does not mean that every reference to them is relevant. Many of the other instances plainly were not and were rightly removed. Having read the Trivium lyric, however, I have reinstated it. It has curiosity value and is evidence either of how popular the idiom remains or else of a higher state of literacy in a heavy metal band than one would have suspected! Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 18:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for riding to the rescue, Wetman. In bringing the language up to encyclopaedic standard, I finally decided that, since the mythical details are dealt with in separate articles, repetition of them here is irrelevant. This focuses the article much more on use of the idiom after Classical times. For that reason, I have left the incident of Odysseus' choice as an early instance of the kind of story from which the idiom and the proverb arise. What would you think of making the title 'Between Scylla and Charaybdis' so as to make the distinction clearer? Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 01:18, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the illustration inserted by User:Crasshopper for the following reasons:
This action has been taken following WP:IMAGE RELEVANCE guidelines. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 09:00, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
The Myth and Proverb section here mentions the Latin incidit in Scyllam cupiēns vītāre Charybdem (he runs into Scylla, wishing to avoid Charybdis) and compares it to jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. This may be so, but as the lesson of the Scylla & Charybdis myth is to choose the lesser of two evils (viz. Homer), and the modern idiom implies going from a bad situation to worse one, the comparison is unhelpful. So I have taken it out: As it is, the Latin, with the translation, is self-explanatory. I trust everyone is OK with that, Moonraker12 ( talk) 07:38, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Another problem is that the original dilemma (and the idiom drawn from it) suggest an inescapable choice, which is born out in the usage by Aneau, and by Monsarrat. OTOH, the Victorian examples suggest steering safely between two perils, which is something else again (I'm not familiar with the other references).
So I'm thinking we need to differentiate between the two uses (particularly as the latter interpretation seems to
still be around... Thoughts?
Moonraker12 (
talk)
07:56, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
@ Sweetpool50: You noticed that I made this edit, because the Alexandreis was earlier than the Adages: You reverted it, because, as you say, as it is more recent than Homer. So, how about we agree to simply remove the ambiguity? Moonraker12 ( talk) 23:17, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
OK Sweetpool50 ( talk) 23:29, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Upon finding an incompleted and broken-link reference to Joyce's use of the idiom in Ulysses, I did just a bit of cleaning up. In addition, making use of the literary critical concept of "styles" as a component of Joyce's structuring of Ulysses, I suggested that Stephen Dedalus' character could be seen as struggling with "Scylla and Charybdis" with regard to creativity (e.g. the naming of something both births the idea yet also pins it down). This is all drawn from Marilyn French's critique of Ulysses, which I cited.
I'm early on in a journey to take my Wikipedia editing beyond typos and broken links. Feedback on this attempt would be most welcome. Nephets ( talk) 15:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)