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I'm having trouble with citing references in my edits (this is my first created page). Grateful for any assistance in adding these. Metabaronic ( talk) 23:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Not sure what should be cited here - the possible names of the founder of Birmingham would all need to be separately cited, which would just be a list of unsubstantiated guesses by various people, while citing the evidentiary link between names and place names seems redundant. The name Breme is linked to the Brom- prefix in place names, while Ber- and Bir- prefixes tend to be a contraction of Beor. At a stretch I could quote Margaret Gelling's "Some notes on the place-names of Birmingham and the surrounding district", Transactions & Proceedings, Birmingham Archaeological Society (72): 14-17, ISSN 01404202, 1956, but a) I haven't read it and b) some things are self-evident. Metabaronic ( talk) 00:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
A proposed to change to the pronunciation to ( /ˈbɜrmə/, [1]) has raised the issue of how this name is pronounced.
The name of Birmingham's founder is rarely used, and is only in common use in three contexts: In Birmingham University, where it is used in relation to a bar there, in relation to the Beorma Quarter, an upcoming development, and in relation to Beorma founding Birmingham in the Digbeth/Highgate area. In all instances the local pronunciation is used, and is always Bey-orma, rather than Bur-ma, which has been offered up in relation to the name Birm, which is covered under alternate names and not under Beorma. There is not, to my understanding, any evidence of an international context, as IPA should not apply to an exclusively local word. Metabaronic ( talk) 18:58, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, the accepted etymology for Birmingham changed in the 1950s, and was uncertain because local dialect offered two conflicting pronunciations (birm- and brom-), based on two conflicting etymologies resulting in over a hundred different ways of spelling Birmingham.
Based on modern pronunciation, which is consistent in all cases, the choices were beɪ.ɔːmə, beɪ.ɔrmə or beɪ.ɔərmə. "b" as in bad, "ey" as in whey, "or" as in oar, and "m" as in man and the "ə" schwa as in about. I based the presentation of this on the entry for beowulf. I'm no specialist in phonetics, so bow to those who are, but in modern usage the ˈbɜrmə pronunciation is never given, even if it may have accurately been the original pronunciation. This begs the question - do we present the pronunciation as spoken, as historically defined by the etymology, or both?
I won't revert edit the name until this is resolved, because this isn't about point scoring - I'd rather we got it right than keep reverting. However I have removed the reference because there is better out there for your argument, and the site you're using seems to be original research. Metabaronic ( talk) 06:27, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
References
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I'm having trouble with citing references in my edits (this is my first created page). Grateful for any assistance in adding these. Metabaronic ( talk) 23:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Not sure what should be cited here - the possible names of the founder of Birmingham would all need to be separately cited, which would just be a list of unsubstantiated guesses by various people, while citing the evidentiary link between names and place names seems redundant. The name Breme is linked to the Brom- prefix in place names, while Ber- and Bir- prefixes tend to be a contraction of Beor. At a stretch I could quote Margaret Gelling's "Some notes on the place-names of Birmingham and the surrounding district", Transactions & Proceedings, Birmingham Archaeological Society (72): 14-17, ISSN 01404202, 1956, but a) I haven't read it and b) some things are self-evident. Metabaronic ( talk) 00:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
A proposed to change to the pronunciation to ( /ˈbɜrmə/, [1]) has raised the issue of how this name is pronounced.
The name of Birmingham's founder is rarely used, and is only in common use in three contexts: In Birmingham University, where it is used in relation to a bar there, in relation to the Beorma Quarter, an upcoming development, and in relation to Beorma founding Birmingham in the Digbeth/Highgate area. In all instances the local pronunciation is used, and is always Bey-orma, rather than Bur-ma, which has been offered up in relation to the name Birm, which is covered under alternate names and not under Beorma. There is not, to my understanding, any evidence of an international context, as IPA should not apply to an exclusively local word. Metabaronic ( talk) 18:58, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, the accepted etymology for Birmingham changed in the 1950s, and was uncertain because local dialect offered two conflicting pronunciations (birm- and brom-), based on two conflicting etymologies resulting in over a hundred different ways of spelling Birmingham.
Based on modern pronunciation, which is consistent in all cases, the choices were beɪ.ɔːmə, beɪ.ɔrmə or beɪ.ɔərmə. "b" as in bad, "ey" as in whey, "or" as in oar, and "m" as in man and the "ə" schwa as in about. I based the presentation of this on the entry for beowulf. I'm no specialist in phonetics, so bow to those who are, but in modern usage the ˈbɜrmə pronunciation is never given, even if it may have accurately been the original pronunciation. This begs the question - do we present the pronunciation as spoken, as historically defined by the etymology, or both?
I won't revert edit the name until this is resolved, because this isn't about point scoring - I'd rather we got it right than keep reverting. However I have removed the reference because there is better out there for your argument, and the site you're using seems to be original research. Metabaronic ( talk) 06:27, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
References
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:26, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:17, 18 July 2017 (UTC)