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There is dispute as to whether or not Benny Urquidez is undefeated as he was defeated under Thai rules by I believe two fighters in Thailand. I will post the videos when I find them
Reference [1] is really not a credible source. For example, the fight with "Bayud" is actually the same fight as the fight with Prayoud Sittiboonlert (Tokyo, August 1978). The source claims these were two different fights with two different outcomes. I have replaced with data from sanctioning organizations for which the no-contest ruling holds. When I get the chance I will add a list of all Urquidez' fights. Mike Miles, a top spokesman for Muay Thai, discusses the Narongnoi and Sittiboonlert fights on his website. -- Jcandy 09:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I reverted text in "Controversial Fight Decisions" to its original form. Someone added the sentences "The Thai fighter dominted Benny with knees, a technique he was not accustomed to, especially in the second round. Benny's corner threw in the towel at the end of the second round, and video evidence shows the Thai fighter's hand raised in victory." I note that, recently, a short video clip of the fight has surfaced on the web. It shows a few frames of Benny holding a towel at the end of the fight. It does not show his corner throw in a towel. In fact, in the video, he looks amicable and undamaged after the fight. The video evidence also shows the Thai's corner men, not an official, raising his (Sittiboonlert's) hand. So, I have removed the material on the grounds that it is not properly sourced. -- Jcandy 02:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the recently-added section discussing the "Gracie Controversy". I have heard both sides of this story, and until someone can come up with believable sources and some level of corroboration, these sorts of urban legends don't belong on Wikipedia. Wikipedia must strive to list only the facts, not rumors, gossip, heresay, etc. -- Jcandy 01:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I took out the link to * http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/muay.html Benny The Jet Defeated? on the grounds that although its hard to acertain the validity of the cite in question the whole page is riddled with biased and misinformed statements (such as the towel throw in the muay thai fight and citing Bas Rutten's striking skills as comeing from muay thai when he himself says they are kyokushin. Moreover it contains quotes from martial artists to give the appearance of truth when some of them are wrestlers with little striking ability remarking on muay thai)- Joe S 2-19-07 8:17 PM
How can it matter how or if he was defeated if he only agreed to an exhibition match? If they changed the rules he agreed to after the fact, that automatically invalidates the match for any professional purpose regardless of anything else. It also ignores whether he was ready to fight - whether he had been able to train properly in advance, which is a prime reason someone would insist on no judgement. If the part about changing the rules is true, it cannot be legitimately counted as a loss. -Advocate@gmail — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.89.196.168 ( talk) 13:04, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
he used to have a school in california. Jet's Gym 6247 Laurel Canyon Boulevard North Hollywood CA USA Phone: 818-766-0461
Also, has siblings who were/are also into martial arts.
Between 1980-1989, I ran the independent STAR (Standardized Tournaments And Ratings) System World Ratings for Professional Kickboxing. (Here's my list of credits and my collaborator John Corcoran's abridged list of credits). The STAR ratings were syndicated in some 15 newsstand magazines around the world and were recognized as the official ratings source for both the WKA and KICK. Besides having access to ring officials and fighters, I also received the actual scorecards from many title bouts. As such, for that era, I possess records and rulings not readily available elsewhere. I have presently built a website to publish the STAR ring records for many major kickboxing champions at STAR System Kickboxing. The STAR records should be able to clarify the occasional controversy for many champions.
For example, the STAR System distinguished between kickboxing and Muay Thai. The former features striking without holding, the latter features striking while holding. Also, Muay Thai is judged based on Muay Thai techniques, whereas kickboxing is judged based on the international standard for "effectiveness". Those distinctions make them different sports. As regards Benny Urquidez, the STAR ratings credited him as undefeated in kickboxing only.
Under Controversial fight decisions, the entry cites my compilation of Urquidez' record, as Chief Administrator of the STAR kickboxing ratings, in the book: Urquidez, Benny (1995). King of The Ring, Pro Action Publishing, Los Angeles, CA. ISBN 0-9615126-4-4, p. 318. While it is true that I provided Urquidez' manager with the STAR compilation of his record, the published version has been simplified and contains notes that do not come from me or from the STAR records. This book was published in 1995; I only saw a copy of this chapter for the first time this afternoon (May 5, 2011). Here is the link to the complete STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record for Benny Urquidez.
Paul Maslak ( talk) 04:18, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Regular Wikipedia editors may wish to review the enumerated edits below. As indicated, I modified several sentences and removed paragraphs that violate Wikipedia policies concerning Original Research and Neutral POV:
1. Removed header: Other Record Manipulations
2. Removed paragraphs: Urquidez has faced controversy over apparent manipulation of his actual fight record and over accounts of his fights.
The first such allegation arose over claims made after a scheduled fight against Japanese champion Kunimatsu Okao. It has been maintained in various promotional materials since that, "the former undefeated All Japan Champion Kunimatsu Okao came out of retirement to challenge Urquidez to avenge the loss of Suzuki...". However, in Japan, it was widely known that Okao was not undefeated. Okao's record at the time was 57 wins, 9 losses, 13 draws. Additionally, while Okao was indeed set to be Urquidez's opponent, he withdrew because of injuries suffered while training. Therefore, Katsuyuki Suzuki, then No.2 for the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation's lightweight rating, stepped into the ring as a last minute substitute.
3. Removed and reworked sentences: According to his autobiography, Urquidez admitted that he could not set the pace of the fight because he was caught off-guard by Onuki’s style. Urquidez expected leg kicks, instead, Onuki assaulted Urquidez with a barrage of high–kicking head attacks. Eventually, Urquidez completed a tactically dangerous and illegal shoulder throw, due, apparently, to his overwhelming frustration.
4. Removed paragraph: Shocked, Urquidez vowed to avenge the loss, and a rematch was set on October 30, 1978 at the Budokan (Martial Arts Hall) as part of the five world championships card for the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization. However, for unknown reasons, Urquidez canceled the fight on the day of the event. According to one report, Urquidez did travel to Japan, but was unable to recover sufficiently from a high fever which he contracted from an allergic reaction to pain medication being used to treat a lingering left knuckle injury. For years, Urquidez has claimed the Sittiboonlert fight was a no-contest, or has claimed the WKA and/or STAR system turned it into a no-contest. However, the fight was neither sanctioned nor promoted by the WKA. The fight was promoted by Kenji Kurosaki's Shin-Kakutojutsu Federation. Therefore, neither the WKA nor the STAR system had jurisdiction.
5. Removed sentences: However, Urquidez has neither listed the bout as an exhibition nor listed it as a draw. He has instead consistently listed the fight as a decision win.
Paul Maslak ( talk) 17:26, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, --- J.S ( t| c) 04:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
One of these fights should have been drawn...at least. http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/muay.html what happened
So his real first name is actually Benny- not Benjamin, which is what Benny is often short for? - Toptomcat 02:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I made the change of spelling of Benny's martial art style from "Kempo" to "Kenpo". The reason for the change is because of his instructor, Bill Ryusaki. Bill Ryusaki is an instructor of the Ed Parker school of Kenpo. Kenpo in this spelling separates it from Kempo, which is the traditional Chinese/Japanese/Okinawan martial art. Kenpo in this spelling denotes the modern, American-developed/based martial art.
The words Kempo and Kenpo are interchangeable as they are the same word. But, in the martial arts world, to distinguish between traditional styles form the modern styles, the Kempo spelling is used for the former and the Kenpo spelling for the latter.
Rayghost ( talk) 07:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone provide Japanese translations for the below articles referenced in this entry? They are not available online for use with Google translator:
In the case of reference 1), I contacted Dave Cater directly and he does not endorse the information attributed to him. For reference 2), no-decision professional competitive bouts (without judges) are very unusual in the modern era and have not been seen very much since about 1930. The information attributed to this source does not make sense. For reference 3), I just want to read the full account. Paul Maslak ( talk) 05:31, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
No offence, but I feel what were reported for the STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record Mr. Maslak mentioned has some errors. Firstly, in many of the mixed-rules bouts between the American full-contact karate fighters and Japanese kickboxers for the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation, the use of throws were not allowed. If one has a chance to watch the WKA Kick Boxing Classics Video of Benny Urquidez and Katsuyuki Suzuki, the voice over narration of Mr. Howard Hanson, then the president of the World Karate Association, clearly explained the throws were illegal for the mixed-rules bouts. Therefore, there was no secret about the no-contest decision for the first Urquidez/Onuki bout. For that reason, Shinobu Onuki was given another chance to face Mr.Urquidez in the ring.
As for the Urquidez/Sittiboonlert fight, the rules of the bout was not that of muay thai bout. The rules were very similar to what Mr. Urquidez was becoming accustomed to. In fact, the rules of the particular bout did not allow the use of elbows. It does not matter what sanctioning body Mr. Urquidez fought. It was his decision to fight for the Shin-Kakutojutsu organization, and it was his decision to take the particular fight, and lost. Many Western kickboxers of those days fought under different set of rules and won some and lost some. But the majority of them never hide the fact that they lost. Don The Dragon Wilson, for example, was invited to fight in Bangkok, and was forced to drop some 8 pounds hours before the fight, and lost the decision. Still, he aknowledges the loss and makes no excuse. Why can't Mr. Urquidez do the same?
Legkicker01 ( talk) 08:27, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I just tried to merge some the information from the recent changes. We should not be removing any cited material without discussion, and we do need more references. Please check my work to make sure I haven't messed anything up. Since we have a conflict in sources, it would be best if we could discuss the contents of the sources. -- Nuujinn ( talk) 22:32, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
See my further comments in "Issues for Mediation Resolution" immediately below. Paul Maslak ( talk) 03:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I plan a direct interview with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez for publication within a few weeks. If anyone has biographical questions that you would like answered for inclusion in his Wikipedia entry, please leave them on my talk page. Paul Maslak ( talk) 22:48, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I believe Legkicker01's reversal of my factual corrections violate Wikipedia's rules about original research and neutral POV in a manner that may constitute libel. I ask for Administrator mediation. Paul Maslak ( talk) 07:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Regarding “Controversial Fights” section
Issue #1 – Revised Paragraph 4 – Shinobu Onuki
“Next, on April 29, 1978, Urquidez faced his fourth Japanese opponent Shinobu Onuki in Tokyo; the event was co-promoted by the AJKF and Shin-Kakuktojutsu Federation. Eventually, Urquidez executed a throw that dislocated Onuki's shoulder. Initially, because of the throw, Urquidez was given a TKO loss, however, the promoters acknowledged that Urquidez used the throw without knowing it was illegal under Japanese rules; the bout was then scored as a no-contest.[16] Following this unsatisfactory result, the two faced each other again in Las Vegas on January 2, 1980.”
Objection: The following sentences were deleted from the end of the above paragraph without reasonable justification:
“The fight was aired by NBC, and this time Urquidez knocked out Onuki with a left hook to the body. Later, in October 1981, when the AJKF merged with the WKA, the WKA transmuted the original Onuki no-contest to a TKO victory for Urquidez.”
Reference source: "STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record: Benny Urquidez" (4 December 1993). “STAR Equalization Findings” section, StarSystemKickboxing.net website. Retrieved on 19 June 2011.
Furthermore:
Issue #2 – Revised Paragraph 6 – Prayout Sittiboonlert
First sentence: “Meanwhile, on August 2, 1978, Urquidez faced the then fifth-ranked welterweight Thai boxer, Prayout Sittiboonlert, as part of the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization's first independent event.”
Second sentence: "The rules for the bout included six two-minute rounds, one-minute intervals, and no elbow contact as per requests made by Urquidez. Urquidez lost a heart-stopping decision to the Thai, who controlled the fight with relentless knee attacks and through the masterful use of Thai clinches.[18]"
Balance of paragraph: “Shocked, Urquidez vowed to avenge the loss, and a rematch was set on October 30, 1978 at the Budokan (Martial Arts Hall) as part of the five world championships card for the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization. However, for unknown reasons, Urquidez canceled the fight on the day of the event. According to one report, Urquidez did travel to Japan, but was unable to recover sufficiently from a high fever which he contracted from an allergic reaction to pain medication being used to treat a lingering left knuckle injury.[19] For years, Urquidez has claimed the Sittiboonlert fight was a no-contest, or has claimed the WKA and/or STAR system turned it into a no-contest. However, the fight was neither sanctioned nor promoted by the WKA. The fight was promoted by Kenji Kurosaki's Shin-Kakutojutsu Federation. Therefore, neither the WKA nor the STAR system had jurisdiction.”
Removed Sentences: “Afterward, Urquidez said he had been deceptively maneuvered into a competitive bout under the unaccustomed “new rules” through deliberate misrepresentations.[19] This sanctioning organization was among several discontinued in 1981 for alleged ties to organized crime. Both the WKA and the STAR world ratings regarded this bout as muay Thai, a separate sport, and did not include it as part of Urquidez's rankings and record count for kickboxing.[14]"
Paul Maslak ( talk) 00:41, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
According to the pre-announcement, the April/May 2014 issue of Black Belt magazine is slated to feature an interview (and online video) with Urquidez. — Loadmaster ( talk) 19:44, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Benny Urquidez article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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There is dispute as to whether or not Benny Urquidez is undefeated as he was defeated under Thai rules by I believe two fighters in Thailand. I will post the videos when I find them
Reference [1] is really not a credible source. For example, the fight with "Bayud" is actually the same fight as the fight with Prayoud Sittiboonlert (Tokyo, August 1978). The source claims these were two different fights with two different outcomes. I have replaced with data from sanctioning organizations for which the no-contest ruling holds. When I get the chance I will add a list of all Urquidez' fights. Mike Miles, a top spokesman for Muay Thai, discusses the Narongnoi and Sittiboonlert fights on his website. -- Jcandy 09:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I reverted text in "Controversial Fight Decisions" to its original form. Someone added the sentences "The Thai fighter dominted Benny with knees, a technique he was not accustomed to, especially in the second round. Benny's corner threw in the towel at the end of the second round, and video evidence shows the Thai fighter's hand raised in victory." I note that, recently, a short video clip of the fight has surfaced on the web. It shows a few frames of Benny holding a towel at the end of the fight. It does not show his corner throw in a towel. In fact, in the video, he looks amicable and undamaged after the fight. The video evidence also shows the Thai's corner men, not an official, raising his (Sittiboonlert's) hand. So, I have removed the material on the grounds that it is not properly sourced. -- Jcandy 02:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the recently-added section discussing the "Gracie Controversy". I have heard both sides of this story, and until someone can come up with believable sources and some level of corroboration, these sorts of urban legends don't belong on Wikipedia. Wikipedia must strive to list only the facts, not rumors, gossip, heresay, etc. -- Jcandy 01:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I took out the link to * http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/muay.html Benny The Jet Defeated? on the grounds that although its hard to acertain the validity of the cite in question the whole page is riddled with biased and misinformed statements (such as the towel throw in the muay thai fight and citing Bas Rutten's striking skills as comeing from muay thai when he himself says they are kyokushin. Moreover it contains quotes from martial artists to give the appearance of truth when some of them are wrestlers with little striking ability remarking on muay thai)- Joe S 2-19-07 8:17 PM
How can it matter how or if he was defeated if he only agreed to an exhibition match? If they changed the rules he agreed to after the fact, that automatically invalidates the match for any professional purpose regardless of anything else. It also ignores whether he was ready to fight - whether he had been able to train properly in advance, which is a prime reason someone would insist on no judgement. If the part about changing the rules is true, it cannot be legitimately counted as a loss. -Advocate@gmail — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.89.196.168 ( talk) 13:04, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
he used to have a school in california. Jet's Gym 6247 Laurel Canyon Boulevard North Hollywood CA USA Phone: 818-766-0461
Also, has siblings who were/are also into martial arts.
Between 1980-1989, I ran the independent STAR (Standardized Tournaments And Ratings) System World Ratings for Professional Kickboxing. (Here's my list of credits and my collaborator John Corcoran's abridged list of credits). The STAR ratings were syndicated in some 15 newsstand magazines around the world and were recognized as the official ratings source for both the WKA and KICK. Besides having access to ring officials and fighters, I also received the actual scorecards from many title bouts. As such, for that era, I possess records and rulings not readily available elsewhere. I have presently built a website to publish the STAR ring records for many major kickboxing champions at STAR System Kickboxing. The STAR records should be able to clarify the occasional controversy for many champions.
For example, the STAR System distinguished between kickboxing and Muay Thai. The former features striking without holding, the latter features striking while holding. Also, Muay Thai is judged based on Muay Thai techniques, whereas kickboxing is judged based on the international standard for "effectiveness". Those distinctions make them different sports. As regards Benny Urquidez, the STAR ratings credited him as undefeated in kickboxing only.
Under Controversial fight decisions, the entry cites my compilation of Urquidez' record, as Chief Administrator of the STAR kickboxing ratings, in the book: Urquidez, Benny (1995). King of The Ring, Pro Action Publishing, Los Angeles, CA. ISBN 0-9615126-4-4, p. 318. While it is true that I provided Urquidez' manager with the STAR compilation of his record, the published version has been simplified and contains notes that do not come from me or from the STAR records. This book was published in 1995; I only saw a copy of this chapter for the first time this afternoon (May 5, 2011). Here is the link to the complete STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record for Benny Urquidez.
Paul Maslak ( talk) 04:18, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Regular Wikipedia editors may wish to review the enumerated edits below. As indicated, I modified several sentences and removed paragraphs that violate Wikipedia policies concerning Original Research and Neutral POV:
1. Removed header: Other Record Manipulations
2. Removed paragraphs: Urquidez has faced controversy over apparent manipulation of his actual fight record and over accounts of his fights.
The first such allegation arose over claims made after a scheduled fight against Japanese champion Kunimatsu Okao. It has been maintained in various promotional materials since that, "the former undefeated All Japan Champion Kunimatsu Okao came out of retirement to challenge Urquidez to avenge the loss of Suzuki...". However, in Japan, it was widely known that Okao was not undefeated. Okao's record at the time was 57 wins, 9 losses, 13 draws. Additionally, while Okao was indeed set to be Urquidez's opponent, he withdrew because of injuries suffered while training. Therefore, Katsuyuki Suzuki, then No.2 for the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation's lightweight rating, stepped into the ring as a last minute substitute.
3. Removed and reworked sentences: According to his autobiography, Urquidez admitted that he could not set the pace of the fight because he was caught off-guard by Onuki’s style. Urquidez expected leg kicks, instead, Onuki assaulted Urquidez with a barrage of high–kicking head attacks. Eventually, Urquidez completed a tactically dangerous and illegal shoulder throw, due, apparently, to his overwhelming frustration.
4. Removed paragraph: Shocked, Urquidez vowed to avenge the loss, and a rematch was set on October 30, 1978 at the Budokan (Martial Arts Hall) as part of the five world championships card for the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization. However, for unknown reasons, Urquidez canceled the fight on the day of the event. According to one report, Urquidez did travel to Japan, but was unable to recover sufficiently from a high fever which he contracted from an allergic reaction to pain medication being used to treat a lingering left knuckle injury. For years, Urquidez has claimed the Sittiboonlert fight was a no-contest, or has claimed the WKA and/or STAR system turned it into a no-contest. However, the fight was neither sanctioned nor promoted by the WKA. The fight was promoted by Kenji Kurosaki's Shin-Kakutojutsu Federation. Therefore, neither the WKA nor the STAR system had jurisdiction.
5. Removed sentences: However, Urquidez has neither listed the bout as an exhibition nor listed it as a draw. He has instead consistently listed the fight as a decision win.
Paul Maslak ( talk) 17:26, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, --- J.S ( t| c) 04:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
One of these fights should have been drawn...at least. http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/muay.html what happened
So his real first name is actually Benny- not Benjamin, which is what Benny is often short for? - Toptomcat 02:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I made the change of spelling of Benny's martial art style from "Kempo" to "Kenpo". The reason for the change is because of his instructor, Bill Ryusaki. Bill Ryusaki is an instructor of the Ed Parker school of Kenpo. Kenpo in this spelling separates it from Kempo, which is the traditional Chinese/Japanese/Okinawan martial art. Kenpo in this spelling denotes the modern, American-developed/based martial art.
The words Kempo and Kenpo are interchangeable as they are the same word. But, in the martial arts world, to distinguish between traditional styles form the modern styles, the Kempo spelling is used for the former and the Kenpo spelling for the latter.
Rayghost ( talk) 07:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone provide Japanese translations for the below articles referenced in this entry? They are not available online for use with Google translator:
In the case of reference 1), I contacted Dave Cater directly and he does not endorse the information attributed to him. For reference 2), no-decision professional competitive bouts (without judges) are very unusual in the modern era and have not been seen very much since about 1930. The information attributed to this source does not make sense. For reference 3), I just want to read the full account. Paul Maslak ( talk) 05:31, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
No offence, but I feel what were reported for the STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record Mr. Maslak mentioned has some errors. Firstly, in many of the mixed-rules bouts between the American full-contact karate fighters and Japanese kickboxers for the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation, the use of throws were not allowed. If one has a chance to watch the WKA Kick Boxing Classics Video of Benny Urquidez and Katsuyuki Suzuki, the voice over narration of Mr. Howard Hanson, then the president of the World Karate Association, clearly explained the throws were illegal for the mixed-rules bouts. Therefore, there was no secret about the no-contest decision for the first Urquidez/Onuki bout. For that reason, Shinobu Onuki was given another chance to face Mr.Urquidez in the ring.
As for the Urquidez/Sittiboonlert fight, the rules of the bout was not that of muay thai bout. The rules were very similar to what Mr. Urquidez was becoming accustomed to. In fact, the rules of the particular bout did not allow the use of elbows. It does not matter what sanctioning body Mr. Urquidez fought. It was his decision to fight for the Shin-Kakutojutsu organization, and it was his decision to take the particular fight, and lost. Many Western kickboxers of those days fought under different set of rules and won some and lost some. But the majority of them never hide the fact that they lost. Don The Dragon Wilson, for example, was invited to fight in Bangkok, and was forced to drop some 8 pounds hours before the fight, and lost the decision. Still, he aknowledges the loss and makes no excuse. Why can't Mr. Urquidez do the same?
Legkicker01 ( talk) 08:27, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I just tried to merge some the information from the recent changes. We should not be removing any cited material without discussion, and we do need more references. Please check my work to make sure I haven't messed anything up. Since we have a conflict in sources, it would be best if we could discuss the contents of the sources. -- Nuujinn ( talk) 22:32, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
See my further comments in "Issues for Mediation Resolution" immediately below. Paul Maslak ( talk) 03:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I plan a direct interview with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez for publication within a few weeks. If anyone has biographical questions that you would like answered for inclusion in his Wikipedia entry, please leave them on my talk page. Paul Maslak ( talk) 22:48, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I believe Legkicker01's reversal of my factual corrections violate Wikipedia's rules about original research and neutral POV in a manner that may constitute libel. I ask for Administrator mediation. Paul Maslak ( talk) 07:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Regarding “Controversial Fights” section
Issue #1 – Revised Paragraph 4 – Shinobu Onuki
“Next, on April 29, 1978, Urquidez faced his fourth Japanese opponent Shinobu Onuki in Tokyo; the event was co-promoted by the AJKF and Shin-Kakuktojutsu Federation. Eventually, Urquidez executed a throw that dislocated Onuki's shoulder. Initially, because of the throw, Urquidez was given a TKO loss, however, the promoters acknowledged that Urquidez used the throw without knowing it was illegal under Japanese rules; the bout was then scored as a no-contest.[16] Following this unsatisfactory result, the two faced each other again in Las Vegas on January 2, 1980.”
Objection: The following sentences were deleted from the end of the above paragraph without reasonable justification:
“The fight was aired by NBC, and this time Urquidez knocked out Onuki with a left hook to the body. Later, in October 1981, when the AJKF merged with the WKA, the WKA transmuted the original Onuki no-contest to a TKO victory for Urquidez.”
Reference source: "STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record: Benny Urquidez" (4 December 1993). “STAR Equalization Findings” section, StarSystemKickboxing.net website. Retrieved on 19 June 2011.
Furthermore:
Issue #2 – Revised Paragraph 6 – Prayout Sittiboonlert
First sentence: “Meanwhile, on August 2, 1978, Urquidez faced the then fifth-ranked welterweight Thai boxer, Prayout Sittiboonlert, as part of the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization's first independent event.”
Second sentence: "The rules for the bout included six two-minute rounds, one-minute intervals, and no elbow contact as per requests made by Urquidez. Urquidez lost a heart-stopping decision to the Thai, who controlled the fight with relentless knee attacks and through the masterful use of Thai clinches.[18]"
Balance of paragraph: “Shocked, Urquidez vowed to avenge the loss, and a rematch was set on October 30, 1978 at the Budokan (Martial Arts Hall) as part of the five world championships card for the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization. However, for unknown reasons, Urquidez canceled the fight on the day of the event. According to one report, Urquidez did travel to Japan, but was unable to recover sufficiently from a high fever which he contracted from an allergic reaction to pain medication being used to treat a lingering left knuckle injury.[19] For years, Urquidez has claimed the Sittiboonlert fight was a no-contest, or has claimed the WKA and/or STAR system turned it into a no-contest. However, the fight was neither sanctioned nor promoted by the WKA. The fight was promoted by Kenji Kurosaki's Shin-Kakutojutsu Federation. Therefore, neither the WKA nor the STAR system had jurisdiction.”
Removed Sentences: “Afterward, Urquidez said he had been deceptively maneuvered into a competitive bout under the unaccustomed “new rules” through deliberate misrepresentations.[19] This sanctioning organization was among several discontinued in 1981 for alleged ties to organized crime. Both the WKA and the STAR world ratings regarded this bout as muay Thai, a separate sport, and did not include it as part of Urquidez's rankings and record count for kickboxing.[14]"
Paul Maslak ( talk) 00:41, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
According to the pre-announcement, the April/May 2014 issue of Black Belt magazine is slated to feature an interview (and online video) with Urquidez. — Loadmaster ( talk) 19:44, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
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