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For this article I am drawing heavily from William Radice's superb book Teach Yourself Bengali (listed as a reference). I strongly recommend it for anyone wishing to learn Bengali. — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:58, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Since this did not exist, I constructed this table as best as I could from the previous templates. Please excuse any mistakes (especially with 'tui' since I rarely hear the very familiar at home). I'm a native born American and only learned Bengali from my parents, and only use it with them. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can come in, add actual bengali text and fine tune the transliterations.
Also, what about the complex tenses? I mean a tense like: (with kora) korechhilam, korechhila, korechhilo, korechilen. Also, I've sometimes heard my grandmother use phrases like "dekhbar lagchhe" or "hatbar lagchhe". Are these a standard tense or are they a colloquialism? Taajikhan 21:55, 27 Apr 2008 (UTC)
First, great work so far! The second person (formal) and third person (formal) use same conjugation but the two third persons (informal/formal) don't.
Examples:
তিনি করেন -- আপনি করেন
সে খেলে xx তিনি খেলেন
You are right about numbers though. Conjugation doesn't take into consideration numbers. Some tabulations would help, but I didn't venture into it because I find wikitables complicated and I think others would find my preferred HTML tables complicated....
Could you start up a table? I could copy paste and fill in. We need one with all the pronouns and examples are better presented in tables I think - easier to grasp!
-- Urnonav 20:14, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I changed some of the transliterations and added the Bangla script. The transliteration changes were in line with the concept of transliteration being pronunciation based rather than spelling based. In some cases Bangla spelling is not a great indicator of how to pronounce, unfortunately. For example, khāoā is closer to the actual word than khaoya. য় creates a problem because it works as a fill-in for vowel. I would say let's use y to replace য় only when য় is separately pronounced as an ই sound. Does that sound sensible? -- Urnonav 09:51, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I agree about য় not always being pronounced as "y", although in khaoya it still functions as a glide. I think I've seen it represented khāowā. য় is a semi-vowel; it sometimes functions as a vowel, but I don't believe that it is ever pronunced ই, but e, right? Thanks for your excellent work on adding the Bengali forms and updating the transliterations. It looks like a couple are a little off: hôowā and dhowā are the forms listed in my dictionary at least. I'll fix the table and comment out the Bengali forms until you or I have a chance to fix them. — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:34, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I disagree with you about "e" and "i" sounding identical at the end of the word—are you saying that khai and khay are pronounced the same? They have different vowels, and sound different to my ear (although I've taken a little phonetics). I agree with you about khaoya; that's why I proposed khaowa instead, which I think makes logical pronunciation sense as well. Is that all right with you? — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:46, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Oh by the way I'm not sure my choice of model verbs was always the best. If you have suggestions for me to change one or more, let me know, OK? — Knowledge Seeker দ 09:44, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have absolutely no objection to khāowā, although the w looks redundant (especially in light of the transliteration convention), it might serve a point. Like I said before, difference between "khay" and "khai" will be impossible to note unless the speaker is deliberately trying to force a distinction. I have said the two several times now and I fail to note the difference, unfortunately, but you might be right though. In day-to-day conversations, native Bengali speakers though would pronounce ending "i" sounds very lightly: the minimum vowel sound needed will be used, I believe. For example, ami khai and se khai are written differently: আমি খাই and সে খায় but the common pronunciations are identical I think, but it's certainly not an এ sound though. Distinguishing is not a bad idea in any case.
As for the verbs, if something comes up in my head that appears to be a better illustration, I'll put it on the discussion page; for now, let's keep what we have. -- Urnonav 04:34, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
KS, I think the current version is a mixture of the habitual past tense and the simple past tense. For example, apni chinlen is not habitual. It's a one time event. apni chinten, however, is something that happened over an extended period of time. I'm making changes I feel necessary. If you had a different point that I'm not seeing, please let me know. -- Urnonav 14:05, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
hi all,
just to let you know, i made some changes to the verb tables to keep them consistent with the transliteration scheme. i also have started expanding the postposition section. as is so disgustingly typical of me, i am finding myself just listing postpositions and avoiding a really detailed description. sigh. -- SameerKhan 09:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, this article is very interesting and well-written. One point, I'm a bit mystified as to why there is no locative case for "the student". Can this be amended, or can it be explained why there is no locative for animate nouns? Wilgamesh 21:58, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Looking for non-finite forms of the verb (conjunctive participle, present participle, etc.) No discussion or examples so far. PEHook 02:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Could someone please confirm if the Bengali script in this article is all correct? Wiki-uk ( talk) 14:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone who knows more than I about writing Bengali know which romanisation system is used here?
Justin Kunimune ( talk) 13:31, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
I have noticed that the plural definite article has been written as "gula", which is incorrect for standard Bengali (it's correct in certain dialects, though). Is there any good way to get a source to change it to "gulo" or "gulo/guli" instead? This language has too many speakers to have such few sources on the internet... Stormmaashrooms ( talk)
There's no past continuos case here: ami ghumacchilam, tui ghumachilish, tumi ghumacchile, aapni ghumacchilen, o ghumacchilo. (I was sleeping, you (informal) were sleeping, you were sleeping, you (formal) were sleeping, he/she/it was sleeping.
I learned Bengali informally though, so before I attempt to implement these changes, I wanted to see if anyone knew why this was left out. Susama Agarwala ( talk) 21:46, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
Ar 103.103.126.22 ( talk) 12:59, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
সে শুধু আমার বাবা নয় সে আামর পৃথিবী 103.200.37.212 ( talk) 14:40, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
বিশেষণ 202.181.18.253 ( talk) 13:43, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Apnay bhalo asian 137.59.220.119 ( talk) 08:13, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Apnah bhalo asian 137.59.220.119 ( talk) 08:14, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Three things are unclear regarding the inanimate pronouns:
1) When are they exactly used?
2) There are 2 forms listed in the table for each cell of the inanimate pronouns. What's the difference?
3) The paragraph before the objective pronouns states that "The inanimate pronouns remain the same in the objective case." Yet the forms in the table are distinct from those in the nominative case. Can this be clarified?
Thanks! Ariel Gutman ( talk) 13:32, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
For this article I am drawing heavily from William Radice's superb book Teach Yourself Bengali (listed as a reference). I strongly recommend it for anyone wishing to learn Bengali. — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:58, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Since this did not exist, I constructed this table as best as I could from the previous templates. Please excuse any mistakes (especially with 'tui' since I rarely hear the very familiar at home). I'm a native born American and only learned Bengali from my parents, and only use it with them. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can come in, add actual bengali text and fine tune the transliterations.
Also, what about the complex tenses? I mean a tense like: (with kora) korechhilam, korechhila, korechhilo, korechilen. Also, I've sometimes heard my grandmother use phrases like "dekhbar lagchhe" or "hatbar lagchhe". Are these a standard tense or are they a colloquialism? Taajikhan 21:55, 27 Apr 2008 (UTC)
First, great work so far! The second person (formal) and third person (formal) use same conjugation but the two third persons (informal/formal) don't.
Examples:
তিনি করেন -- আপনি করেন
সে খেলে xx তিনি খেলেন
You are right about numbers though. Conjugation doesn't take into consideration numbers. Some tabulations would help, but I didn't venture into it because I find wikitables complicated and I think others would find my preferred HTML tables complicated....
Could you start up a table? I could copy paste and fill in. We need one with all the pronouns and examples are better presented in tables I think - easier to grasp!
-- Urnonav 20:14, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I changed some of the transliterations and added the Bangla script. The transliteration changes were in line with the concept of transliteration being pronunciation based rather than spelling based. In some cases Bangla spelling is not a great indicator of how to pronounce, unfortunately. For example, khāoā is closer to the actual word than khaoya. য় creates a problem because it works as a fill-in for vowel. I would say let's use y to replace য় only when য় is separately pronounced as an ই sound. Does that sound sensible? -- Urnonav 09:51, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I agree about য় not always being pronounced as "y", although in khaoya it still functions as a glide. I think I've seen it represented khāowā. য় is a semi-vowel; it sometimes functions as a vowel, but I don't believe that it is ever pronunced ই, but e, right? Thanks for your excellent work on adding the Bengali forms and updating the transliterations. It looks like a couple are a little off: hôowā and dhowā are the forms listed in my dictionary at least. I'll fix the table and comment out the Bengali forms until you or I have a chance to fix them. — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:34, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I disagree with you about "e" and "i" sounding identical at the end of the word—are you saying that khai and khay are pronounced the same? They have different vowels, and sound different to my ear (although I've taken a little phonetics). I agree with you about khaoya; that's why I proposed khaowa instead, which I think makes logical pronunciation sense as well. Is that all right with you? — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:46, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Oh by the way I'm not sure my choice of model verbs was always the best. If you have suggestions for me to change one or more, let me know, OK? — Knowledge Seeker দ 09:44, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have absolutely no objection to khāowā, although the w looks redundant (especially in light of the transliteration convention), it might serve a point. Like I said before, difference between "khay" and "khai" will be impossible to note unless the speaker is deliberately trying to force a distinction. I have said the two several times now and I fail to note the difference, unfortunately, but you might be right though. In day-to-day conversations, native Bengali speakers though would pronounce ending "i" sounds very lightly: the minimum vowel sound needed will be used, I believe. For example, ami khai and se khai are written differently: আমি খাই and সে খায় but the common pronunciations are identical I think, but it's certainly not an এ sound though. Distinguishing is not a bad idea in any case.
As for the verbs, if something comes up in my head that appears to be a better illustration, I'll put it on the discussion page; for now, let's keep what we have. -- Urnonav 04:34, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
KS, I think the current version is a mixture of the habitual past tense and the simple past tense. For example, apni chinlen is not habitual. It's a one time event. apni chinten, however, is something that happened over an extended period of time. I'm making changes I feel necessary. If you had a different point that I'm not seeing, please let me know. -- Urnonav 14:05, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
hi all,
just to let you know, i made some changes to the verb tables to keep them consistent with the transliteration scheme. i also have started expanding the postposition section. as is so disgustingly typical of me, i am finding myself just listing postpositions and avoiding a really detailed description. sigh. -- SameerKhan 09:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, this article is very interesting and well-written. One point, I'm a bit mystified as to why there is no locative case for "the student". Can this be amended, or can it be explained why there is no locative for animate nouns? Wilgamesh 21:58, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Looking for non-finite forms of the verb (conjunctive participle, present participle, etc.) No discussion or examples so far. PEHook 02:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Could someone please confirm if the Bengali script in this article is all correct? Wiki-uk ( talk) 14:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone who knows more than I about writing Bengali know which romanisation system is used here?
Justin Kunimune ( talk) 13:31, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
I have noticed that the plural definite article has been written as "gula", which is incorrect for standard Bengali (it's correct in certain dialects, though). Is there any good way to get a source to change it to "gulo" or "gulo/guli" instead? This language has too many speakers to have such few sources on the internet... Stormmaashrooms ( talk)
There's no past continuos case here: ami ghumacchilam, tui ghumachilish, tumi ghumacchile, aapni ghumacchilen, o ghumacchilo. (I was sleeping, you (informal) were sleeping, you were sleeping, you (formal) were sleeping, he/she/it was sleeping.
I learned Bengali informally though, so before I attempt to implement these changes, I wanted to see if anyone knew why this was left out. Susama Agarwala ( talk) 21:46, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
Ar 103.103.126.22 ( talk) 12:59, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
সে শুধু আমার বাবা নয় সে আামর পৃথিবী 103.200.37.212 ( talk) 14:40, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
বিশেষণ 202.181.18.253 ( talk) 13:43, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Apnay bhalo asian 137.59.220.119 ( talk) 08:13, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Apnah bhalo asian 137.59.220.119 ( talk) 08:14, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Three things are unclear regarding the inanimate pronouns:
1) When are they exactly used?
2) There are 2 forms listed in the table for each cell of the inanimate pronouns. What's the difference?
3) The paragraph before the objective pronouns states that "The inanimate pronouns remain the same in the objective case." Yet the forms in the table are distinct from those in the nominative case. Can this be clarified?
Thanks! Ariel Gutman ( talk) 13:32, 30 May 2023 (UTC)