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Anyone wanting to even hint at slagging off any of Lord Ben of Elton's work has to go through me first. Think on.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.34.12 ( talk) 01:27, 15 January 2004 (UTC)
I keep editing Ben Elton's page as I find it extremely biased. I do not understand why my changes are not let stand. I thought the tenet of this encyclopaedia was a neutral point of view. It seems to be more a forum for opinionated people. My main objection is that his biography finishes with the, once again, opinion of Anne Robinson. Since when did her, or anyone else opinion become fact? Such biased biographies as this seriously damages the credibility of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fivepastfive ( talk • contribs) 15:38, 21 July 2006
I think it's worth noting that during the eighties, Anne Robinson worked for the left-leaning Daily Mirror, but recently said that she thought Margaret Thatcher was the second greatest ever Briton. Thus I think she's hardly in a position to lecture anyone on left wing politics, political consistency or indeed principles bingo99 05:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
If Anne Robinson's harsh critique of Elton's supposed hypocrisy are to be quoted, I think it only fair that these political inconsistincies of her own should also be pointed out. It is relevant bingo99 14:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Let's see what Anne says: "Anne argued that Ben should be sent to the room "for being a total and utter hyprocrite and going back on everything he stood for in the 80s and 90s".
By her own standards she's a hypocrite who's gone back on everything she stood for in the eighties and nineties. I think it's unbalanced and unfair to include her attacks on Elton's character, but not any, in these circumstances, reasonable rebuttal for the other side of the argument citing her own political transformations. Why is it okay to say "her views change over time", but let her label Elton a "hypocrite" for the exact same reasons? - bingo99 15:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
If it can't be balanced then I'd remove her presence completely - bingo99 16:51, 14 August 2006
The section has been recently edited to "remove untrue remark - anti-Royalist material was occasionally a feature of the Sat Live era standup." In fact this claim itself is not true. The only material Elton did about The Royals from that period is wondering why the Queen didn't use her Christmas speech to go "up your Spitting Image". Also a routine about how he thought that "Princess Diana should have married Simon Le Bon and Prince Charles should have married the Bishop of Durham". Maybe a slight dig at Prince Charles intellectual obsessions, but in the end, quite sympathetic, and it would be a tad extreme to describe them as "anti-royal". The first joke seems very supportive in fact. Being about the Royals doesn't qualify as being anti them. I have memories myself in the eighties of Ben Elton on Wogan describing Prince Charles affectionately as "a bit of a hippy, but he's alright". - bingo99 00:00, 18 August 2006
This seems very unbalanced at the moment, with uncited criticisms and a biased tone against the subject. Is any defence of these criticisms allowed? bingo99 13:14, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a few months down the line from this discussion, granted, but for what it's worth it the criticism section seems quite fair to me; he's a public figure, and it's written in a pretty objective tone.-- Joseph Q Publique 13:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
This is not a Wiki entry on Anne Robinson. The inclusion of her quote is valid as it encapsulates the criticisms of Elton that are held by a number of people. 10 April 2007 (AM)
Removed pointless excessive criticisms and left the one in summary which he responded to. Being prominent isn't sufficient reason to include a criticism and readers will get the general idea pretty quick. RutgerH ( talk) 15:55, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Per WP:BLP have again removed excessive and pointless (repeated) criticisms. Amy Winehouse??? (where's the rolleyes icon?) RutgerH ( talk) 15:27, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
The article states "Elton went on to write a number of compilation shows featuring popular songs". Would that number be two? DavidFarmbrough 13:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Editor Soji Lujet has repeatedly inserted a claim on the page that somebody named "Chris Thomas" has humor similar to Elton's. The editor always links to Thomas's page and the page of one of Thomas's books. I believe this to be at best irrelevant, and perhaps linkspam. We would not list on Tom Clancy's page, for example, every author whose style resembles Clancy's. To do so gives us no insight on the original author. Besides which, the similarity is nothing but POV. Lujet continually reinserts this without discussion. If s/he wants to do so again, I suggest requesting a moderator to review. Uucp 22:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Before anyone starts-does anyone know what his real voice sounds like? His public voice is obviously fake Cockney -essential to show that he is not really clever or middleclass etc-but what does he really sound like ? I suspect probably something like a rather arrogant drawling Old Etonian... Winston1911 ( talk) 08:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I've never heard him talk in any other voice. I have no idea what a drawling Old Etonian sounds like, you obviously have experience of them. His voice sounds to me like what you'd expect from someone fairly educated from S.E.London, and as he was born in Catford that is not surprising. What is your real voice like? Something like a drawn out farting sound due to you talking through your arsehole? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.225.149.5 ( talk) 15:54, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Giving large ammounts of money to Tony Blair's New Labour Party does not make you Left Wing or a Socialist. Tony Blair is no more a Socialist than his masturbatory idol Margaret Thatcher. Likewise New Labour is more Right Wing than Ted Heath's 1970s Consevative Party. Therefore Mr Elton cannot be a hypocrite as he's always been "establishment". As for the leather-arsed Anne Robinson's opinion I rather doubt that botoxed-to-buggery geriatric old drunk is in any position to talk about sell-outs, she's obviously brained her damage with too much formaldehyde as no-ones sold out more than her, especially all the way to the bank. AM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.96.19 ( talk) 02:07, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
" He was the leader of the British alternative comedy movement of the 1980s " This will come as a bit of a surprise to some of the genuinely funny, genuinely alternative comedians of the time (e.g. Alexei Sayle). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.227.194 ( talk) 21:46, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
Maybe he was the perceived leader? Or he was assigned leadership by the media for being photogenic? 88.69.35.164 ( talk) 01:41, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
The opening paragraph says that Ben Elton has written fifteen novels, but later in the article we read he has written sixteen novels. Vorbee ( talk) 17:55, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Any details possibly? GreenwashTheMusical.com 80.46.74.145 ( talk) 21:49, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ben Elton article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Anyone wanting to even hint at slagging off any of Lord Ben of Elton's work has to go through me first. Think on.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.34.12 ( talk) 01:27, 15 January 2004 (UTC)
I keep editing Ben Elton's page as I find it extremely biased. I do not understand why my changes are not let stand. I thought the tenet of this encyclopaedia was a neutral point of view. It seems to be more a forum for opinionated people. My main objection is that his biography finishes with the, once again, opinion of Anne Robinson. Since when did her, or anyone else opinion become fact? Such biased biographies as this seriously damages the credibility of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fivepastfive ( talk • contribs) 15:38, 21 July 2006
I think it's worth noting that during the eighties, Anne Robinson worked for the left-leaning Daily Mirror, but recently said that she thought Margaret Thatcher was the second greatest ever Briton. Thus I think she's hardly in a position to lecture anyone on left wing politics, political consistency or indeed principles bingo99 05:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
If Anne Robinson's harsh critique of Elton's supposed hypocrisy are to be quoted, I think it only fair that these political inconsistincies of her own should also be pointed out. It is relevant bingo99 14:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Let's see what Anne says: "Anne argued that Ben should be sent to the room "for being a total and utter hyprocrite and going back on everything he stood for in the 80s and 90s".
By her own standards she's a hypocrite who's gone back on everything she stood for in the eighties and nineties. I think it's unbalanced and unfair to include her attacks on Elton's character, but not any, in these circumstances, reasonable rebuttal for the other side of the argument citing her own political transformations. Why is it okay to say "her views change over time", but let her label Elton a "hypocrite" for the exact same reasons? - bingo99 15:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
If it can't be balanced then I'd remove her presence completely - bingo99 16:51, 14 August 2006
The section has been recently edited to "remove untrue remark - anti-Royalist material was occasionally a feature of the Sat Live era standup." In fact this claim itself is not true. The only material Elton did about The Royals from that period is wondering why the Queen didn't use her Christmas speech to go "up your Spitting Image". Also a routine about how he thought that "Princess Diana should have married Simon Le Bon and Prince Charles should have married the Bishop of Durham". Maybe a slight dig at Prince Charles intellectual obsessions, but in the end, quite sympathetic, and it would be a tad extreme to describe them as "anti-royal". The first joke seems very supportive in fact. Being about the Royals doesn't qualify as being anti them. I have memories myself in the eighties of Ben Elton on Wogan describing Prince Charles affectionately as "a bit of a hippy, but he's alright". - bingo99 00:00, 18 August 2006
This seems very unbalanced at the moment, with uncited criticisms and a biased tone against the subject. Is any defence of these criticisms allowed? bingo99 13:14, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a few months down the line from this discussion, granted, but for what it's worth it the criticism section seems quite fair to me; he's a public figure, and it's written in a pretty objective tone.-- Joseph Q Publique 13:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
This is not a Wiki entry on Anne Robinson. The inclusion of her quote is valid as it encapsulates the criticisms of Elton that are held by a number of people. 10 April 2007 (AM)
Removed pointless excessive criticisms and left the one in summary which he responded to. Being prominent isn't sufficient reason to include a criticism and readers will get the general idea pretty quick. RutgerH ( talk) 15:55, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Per WP:BLP have again removed excessive and pointless (repeated) criticisms. Amy Winehouse??? (where's the rolleyes icon?) RutgerH ( talk) 15:27, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
The article states "Elton went on to write a number of compilation shows featuring popular songs". Would that number be two? DavidFarmbrough 13:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Editor Soji Lujet has repeatedly inserted a claim on the page that somebody named "Chris Thomas" has humor similar to Elton's. The editor always links to Thomas's page and the page of one of Thomas's books. I believe this to be at best irrelevant, and perhaps linkspam. We would not list on Tom Clancy's page, for example, every author whose style resembles Clancy's. To do so gives us no insight on the original author. Besides which, the similarity is nothing but POV. Lujet continually reinserts this without discussion. If s/he wants to do so again, I suggest requesting a moderator to review. Uucp 22:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Before anyone starts-does anyone know what his real voice sounds like? His public voice is obviously fake Cockney -essential to show that he is not really clever or middleclass etc-but what does he really sound like ? I suspect probably something like a rather arrogant drawling Old Etonian... Winston1911 ( talk) 08:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I've never heard him talk in any other voice. I have no idea what a drawling Old Etonian sounds like, you obviously have experience of them. His voice sounds to me like what you'd expect from someone fairly educated from S.E.London, and as he was born in Catford that is not surprising. What is your real voice like? Something like a drawn out farting sound due to you talking through your arsehole? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.225.149.5 ( talk) 15:54, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Giving large ammounts of money to Tony Blair's New Labour Party does not make you Left Wing or a Socialist. Tony Blair is no more a Socialist than his masturbatory idol Margaret Thatcher. Likewise New Labour is more Right Wing than Ted Heath's 1970s Consevative Party. Therefore Mr Elton cannot be a hypocrite as he's always been "establishment". As for the leather-arsed Anne Robinson's opinion I rather doubt that botoxed-to-buggery geriatric old drunk is in any position to talk about sell-outs, she's obviously brained her damage with too much formaldehyde as no-ones sold out more than her, especially all the way to the bank. AM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.96.19 ( talk) 02:07, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
" He was the leader of the British alternative comedy movement of the 1980s " This will come as a bit of a surprise to some of the genuinely funny, genuinely alternative comedians of the time (e.g. Alexei Sayle). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.227.194 ( talk) 21:46, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
Maybe he was the perceived leader? Or he was assigned leadership by the media for being photogenic? 88.69.35.164 ( talk) 01:41, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
The opening paragraph says that Ben Elton has written fifteen novels, but later in the article we read he has written sixteen novels. Vorbee ( talk) 17:55, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Any details possibly? GreenwashTheMusical.com 80.46.74.145 ( talk) 21:49, 18 May 2024 (UTC)