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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Bella Hadid was copied or moved into Gigi Hadid with this edit on 11 January 2017. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
@ Hipal and Tobby72: There is a bit of a disagreement over including info about Gaza, Israel and the song Harbu Darbu. From my perspective, the song is notable enough to be mentioned as it has its own article, its lyrics mention Hadid, and we have reliable sourcing for both: The Independent, The Times. There is also the sentence about the humanitarian situation and the war, which also is reliably supported by sources for both August and October of last year: USA Today/AP, AP, Reuters, Al Jazerra, Vulture, The Guardian. Since there is only three of us involved, is there any way to word or format it that the three of us will all be satisfied with? -- Super Goku V ( talk) 03:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
Hadid has been a supporter of Palestine for many yearsThat's supported by The Guardian, and should be the focus of anything we include. The rest are just reactions to her and attempts to benefit from Hadid's high level of recognition and interest. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:57, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
This information was reverted, with the following edit summary: " edit-warring against BLP". I don't agree with that. She is of Palestinian descent and her views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and related death threats are in no way a violation of BLP policy. If you disagree, please take it to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard.
Hadid has supported the Palestinians and criticized Israel's policy towards Palestine for many years. [1] [2] In October 2023, she expressed concern about the humanitarian situation in Gaza during the Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip. [3] She also condemned the Hamas-led attack on Israel. [4] Hadid stated that she and her family have received death threats for their pro-Palestinian stance, saying: "I've been sent hundreds of death threats daily, my phone number has been leaked, and my family has felt to be in danger. But I can not be silenced any longer. Fear is not an option." [5] In November 2023, Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single " Harbu Darbu", [6] calling for her death. [7] [8]
-- Tobby72 ( talk) 20:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
If you disagree...That's not how BLP works, nor is it a sound approach for any disputed content in any contentious topic, let alone under three. Please stop edit-warring, and either try again to gain consensus or move on to something else. -- Hipal ( talk) 22:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
As I mentioned earlier, "Hadid has been a supporter of Palestine for many years
That's supported by The Guardian, and should be the focus of anything we include. The rest are just reactions to her and attempts to benefit from Hadid's high level of recognition and interest."
[1].
Those discussions ended when it appeared that editors didn't understand the basics of what references are appropriate for a BLP.
As I mentioned on Gigi's talk page, "It all comes down to what references we have available and relevant policies. For references: WP:RS, WP:IS, and WP:BLPRS. As to the POV issues: WP:NOT (especially NOTNEWS), WP:RECENTISM, WP:POV."
The Guardian piece doesn't give us much to work with, and doesn't rise above NOTNEWS and RECENTISM. Is there something better? -- Hipal ( talk) 16:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Those discussions ended when it appeared that editors didn't understand the basics of what references are appropriate for a BLP.
I see three or four useableGreat! Identify the ones you think we can use, then let's see what we can do with them. -- Hipal ( talk) 18:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Hadid and her sister, Gigi, who is also a supermodel, are vocal supporters of Palestinian rights whose social media posts reach tens of millions of followers&
Bella Hadid and her sister, model Gigi Hadid, have embraced their heritage and advocated for the Palestinian cause. The "for many years" portion might need a better source, but that is the only problem I see. NOTNEWS and RECENTISM don't seem to apply and would like clarification as to how those apply.
Bella Hadid posted a written statement to her Instagram condemning the Hamas attacks and advocating for the innocent lives of Palestinians amid Israel airstrikes in Gaz&
“Seeing the aftermath from the airstrikes in Gaza, I mourn with all the mothers who have lost children and the children who cry alone, all the lost fathers, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunties, friends that will never again walk this earth.”I don't see a problem with using this source for VERIFY.
In the past, Hadid has taken public stances, standing with the Free Palestine movement. In May 2021, she received public backlash for attending a Pro-Palestine march in New York City along with her sister Gigi and Dua Lipa, who was dating her brother Anwar at the time. She was the target of an ad placed by the World Values Network in the New York Times condemning her support of Palestine, saying: “Hamas calls for a second Holocaust. Condemn them now.”If you think that is too much weight to give, then we can try to find another source. If you have a suggestion for a source, I would welcome it.
There's absolutely no context other than she's targeted in the song.So that would cover the proposed sentence, "In November 2023, Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single "Harbu Darbu", calling for her death."
NOTNEWS and RECENTISM don't seem to apply
Why not? You're aware that this article is under three different contentious topics, so we shouldn't be ignoring or looking for exceptions to policy. BLP sets very high standards for the quality of sources and adherence to content policy. BLP also places the burden on those seeking to include content. --
Hipal (
talk) 17:16, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Why not?Hipal, you are the one claiming that NOTNEWS and RECENTISM apply. Why do I need to explain why a policy that you are citing doesn't apply? Just pointing at policy is frustrating as it doesn't make your point clear other than that you are claiming that X applies. (It also doesn't help that this was also brough up in the prior discussion.)
You're aware that this article is under three different contentious topics, so we shouldn't be ignoring or looking for exceptions to policy.Discussing how policy applies in this situation is not ignoring it. I have no idea what exceptions you are implying, but as far as I understand a policy either applies or it doesn't. As for the rest, there is a majority here that wants to include the content, the only issue is making it work with you as best as possible. -- Super Goku V ( talk) 09:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
As I said, "name-dropping". The band used the names to get attention, the press eats it up, but in the end it has no impact on Hadid's own life beyond influencing the amount and tone of the impulsive reactions (social media, soft news, etc) about her.-- Hipal ( talk) 17:08, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Hadid has supported the Palestinians and criticized Israel's policy towards Palestine for many years.
In October 2023, she expressed concern about the humanitarian situation in Gaza during the Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip.She also condemned the Hamas-led attack on Israel.Hadid stated that she and her family have received death threats for their pro-Palestinian stance, saying: "I've been sent hundreds of death threats daily, my phone number has been leaked, and my family has felt to be in danger. But I can not be silenced any longer. Fear is not an option."In November 2023, Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single "Harbu Darbu", calling for her death.
I explained how the song meets...But that doesn't mean it is encyclopedic or due in this article about Hadid. -- Hipal ( talk) 16:29, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Any chance of including her support for Palestinians? There seems to be a consensus for inclusion. [9] Burrobert ( talk) 07:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Afaict there is no RfC being conducted here. If there is an RfC going on somewhere else then it would generally be irrelevant to what is decided here. But why would we need an RfC here when there seems to be a consensus to include a mention of Bella's support for Palestine in her bio? Burrobert ( talk) 14:13, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Bella Hadid article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Bella Hadid was copied or moved into Gigi Hadid with this edit on 11 January 2017. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
@ Hipal and Tobby72: There is a bit of a disagreement over including info about Gaza, Israel and the song Harbu Darbu. From my perspective, the song is notable enough to be mentioned as it has its own article, its lyrics mention Hadid, and we have reliable sourcing for both: The Independent, The Times. There is also the sentence about the humanitarian situation and the war, which also is reliably supported by sources for both August and October of last year: USA Today/AP, AP, Reuters, Al Jazerra, Vulture, The Guardian. Since there is only three of us involved, is there any way to word or format it that the three of us will all be satisfied with? -- Super Goku V ( talk) 03:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
Hadid has been a supporter of Palestine for many yearsThat's supported by The Guardian, and should be the focus of anything we include. The rest are just reactions to her and attempts to benefit from Hadid's high level of recognition and interest. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:57, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
This information was reverted, with the following edit summary: " edit-warring against BLP". I don't agree with that. She is of Palestinian descent and her views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and related death threats are in no way a violation of BLP policy. If you disagree, please take it to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard.
Hadid has supported the Palestinians and criticized Israel's policy towards Palestine for many years. [1] [2] In October 2023, she expressed concern about the humanitarian situation in Gaza during the Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip. [3] She also condemned the Hamas-led attack on Israel. [4] Hadid stated that she and her family have received death threats for their pro-Palestinian stance, saying: "I've been sent hundreds of death threats daily, my phone number has been leaked, and my family has felt to be in danger. But I can not be silenced any longer. Fear is not an option." [5] In November 2023, Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single " Harbu Darbu", [6] calling for her death. [7] [8]
-- Tobby72 ( talk) 20:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
If you disagree...That's not how BLP works, nor is it a sound approach for any disputed content in any contentious topic, let alone under three. Please stop edit-warring, and either try again to gain consensus or move on to something else. -- Hipal ( talk) 22:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
As I mentioned earlier, "Hadid has been a supporter of Palestine for many years
That's supported by The Guardian, and should be the focus of anything we include. The rest are just reactions to her and attempts to benefit from Hadid's high level of recognition and interest."
[1].
Those discussions ended when it appeared that editors didn't understand the basics of what references are appropriate for a BLP.
As I mentioned on Gigi's talk page, "It all comes down to what references we have available and relevant policies. For references: WP:RS, WP:IS, and WP:BLPRS. As to the POV issues: WP:NOT (especially NOTNEWS), WP:RECENTISM, WP:POV."
The Guardian piece doesn't give us much to work with, and doesn't rise above NOTNEWS and RECENTISM. Is there something better? -- Hipal ( talk) 16:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Those discussions ended when it appeared that editors didn't understand the basics of what references are appropriate for a BLP.
I see three or four useableGreat! Identify the ones you think we can use, then let's see what we can do with them. -- Hipal ( talk) 18:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Hadid and her sister, Gigi, who is also a supermodel, are vocal supporters of Palestinian rights whose social media posts reach tens of millions of followers&
Bella Hadid and her sister, model Gigi Hadid, have embraced their heritage and advocated for the Palestinian cause. The "for many years" portion might need a better source, but that is the only problem I see. NOTNEWS and RECENTISM don't seem to apply and would like clarification as to how those apply.
Bella Hadid posted a written statement to her Instagram condemning the Hamas attacks and advocating for the innocent lives of Palestinians amid Israel airstrikes in Gaz&
“Seeing the aftermath from the airstrikes in Gaza, I mourn with all the mothers who have lost children and the children who cry alone, all the lost fathers, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunties, friends that will never again walk this earth.”I don't see a problem with using this source for VERIFY.
In the past, Hadid has taken public stances, standing with the Free Palestine movement. In May 2021, she received public backlash for attending a Pro-Palestine march in New York City along with her sister Gigi and Dua Lipa, who was dating her brother Anwar at the time. She was the target of an ad placed by the World Values Network in the New York Times condemning her support of Palestine, saying: “Hamas calls for a second Holocaust. Condemn them now.”If you think that is too much weight to give, then we can try to find another source. If you have a suggestion for a source, I would welcome it.
There's absolutely no context other than she's targeted in the song.So that would cover the proposed sentence, "In November 2023, Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single "Harbu Darbu", calling for her death."
NOTNEWS and RECENTISM don't seem to apply
Why not? You're aware that this article is under three different contentious topics, so we shouldn't be ignoring or looking for exceptions to policy. BLP sets very high standards for the quality of sources and adherence to content policy. BLP also places the burden on those seeking to include content. --
Hipal (
talk) 17:16, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Why not?Hipal, you are the one claiming that NOTNEWS and RECENTISM apply. Why do I need to explain why a policy that you are citing doesn't apply? Just pointing at policy is frustrating as it doesn't make your point clear other than that you are claiming that X applies. (It also doesn't help that this was also brough up in the prior discussion.)
You're aware that this article is under three different contentious topics, so we shouldn't be ignoring or looking for exceptions to policy.Discussing how policy applies in this situation is not ignoring it. I have no idea what exceptions you are implying, but as far as I understand a policy either applies or it doesn't. As for the rest, there is a majority here that wants to include the content, the only issue is making it work with you as best as possible. -- Super Goku V ( talk) 09:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
As I said, "name-dropping". The band used the names to get attention, the press eats it up, but in the end it has no impact on Hadid's own life beyond influencing the amount and tone of the impulsive reactions (social media, soft news, etc) about her.-- Hipal ( talk) 17:08, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Hadid has supported the Palestinians and criticized Israel's policy towards Palestine for many years.
In October 2023, she expressed concern about the humanitarian situation in Gaza during the Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip.She also condemned the Hamas-led attack on Israel.Hadid stated that she and her family have received death threats for their pro-Palestinian stance, saying: "I've been sent hundreds of death threats daily, my phone number has been leaked, and my family has felt to be in danger. But I can not be silenced any longer. Fear is not an option."In November 2023, Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single "Harbu Darbu", calling for her death.
I explained how the song meets...But that doesn't mean it is encyclopedic or due in this article about Hadid. -- Hipal ( talk) 16:29, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Any chance of including her support for Palestinians? There seems to be a consensus for inclusion. [9] Burrobert ( talk) 07:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Afaict there is no RfC being conducted here. If there is an RfC going on somewhere else then it would generally be irrelevant to what is decided here. But why would we need an RfC here when there seems to be a consensus to include a mention of Bella's support for Palestine in her bio? Burrobert ( talk) 14:13, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
References