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How would you pronounce "Beau Brummell"—the former in French, the latter in English? Sounds kinda awkward! Maikel 20:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
We need to specify the speciic person who is the "Prince Regent" in this article, who followed King George III of England. Edison 05:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I can't imagine why a man of good taste and fashion would abandon his career rather than be posted to Manchester. Could someone expand on this? Drutt 02:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
And it hasn't improved much now :) I'm with Beau. "Think your Royal Highness - Manchester!!" ( Goldmanuk ( talk) 19:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC))
A lot of the stories about George Brummell are told a different way in every biography of the man, leading me to believe the biographies tell more about the author than the subject. There are a lot of details left out of the Manchester story, among others: The Tenth Hussars were being posted there to put down rioting millworkers; which would have forced Brummell, who was the son of a political liberal and grandson of a personal servant, to punish a group of people he may have felt had a right to protest their mistreatment. The Prince of Wales led this liberal Whig party, which was out of power during the late eighteenth century, but which had practically all of the best politicians and society hostesses in its ranks. Many sources discuss this in general terms, particularly anything about Charles James Fox, Richard Brinsley Sheridan, the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire (Georgiana Spencer Cavendish), Charles Grey (who was to become a Prime Minister, then an Earl, and the inventor of "Earl Grey Tea" somewhere along the way), or Lord Byron (whose first speech before Parliament was in defense of independent Scottish weavers, who broke up factory machines with hammers, and were sentenced to be hung by a Tory judge). All of these fine people were on terms of friendship with George Brummell, at various times during his career in London.
One interesting thing I have picked up about Brummell from his own stories about himself (including the joke he made about "Think, Your Royal Highness - Manchester!") is that he was always the first to undercut his own arrogant persona; he presented himself in his own words as a snob, a fool, and a coward who could barely ride a horse or fire a gun. There are several versions of the "horse broke my nose" story to be found in different biographies as well. From other evidence to be found in these same biographies, it would seem the truth was more complex: Brummell hated ostentation without humour (which is probably why he got along so well with the Prince of Wales for as long as he did, as the Prince never took himself in deadly earnest); and for Brummell the best sport of all was bullying those who were used to bullying everyone else. He was disgusted by cruelty to animals, and most likely supported the Prince's ban on duels between men. But he knew better than to openly voice such opinions in a Tory-controlled London society; instead, he resorted to wisecracks to get his point across. Ultimately this may have made him even more enemies, because if there's one thing bullies hate it is humor, and they must have at least dimly perceived they were Brummell's real targets.
As to why the Prince fell out with Brummell, I do suspect it involved politics, since the date coincides with that of the Prince finally being given Regency powers by the Tory Parliament. So who knows? Maybe the Stewart Granger movie really is closer to the truth than not; and by the way, the "Lady Patricia" character probably did exist, as Sir William Pitt's real niece, Lady Hester Stanhope. She seems to have shared an intense relationship of some kind with Brummell, until the death of her uncle left her virtually penniless. Brummell's income could never have supported both of them in the manner to which they were accustomed; and she left England six years before he followed. They never saw each other again; although she did run into a very young Lord Byron on his way back to England from the East, and Byron wrote in his journal that he found her not to his taste at all (too bossy!) but that she had "a mind more free of received notions" than "other she-things", which merited his backhanded praise. On his return to London, Byron became friends with Brummell, until he too had to flee England under a cloud of scandal. Lady Hester never remarked upon her meeting with Byron; but towards the end of her life she told an English tourist that she only missed one man from her days in high society, George Brummell. Then the tourist wrote a biography of Lady Hester, which gives a divergent and probably more accurate picture of the so-called Beau than the better-known books full of received notions on the subject.
Ah, but I wander far from Manchester. One final resting place where Brummell's joke most likely found immortality - or at least notoriety - is in Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice": The bad boy, Mr. Wickham, is packed off to Manchester by Mr. Darcy in order to save the Bennett family reputation, after he has eloped with Elizabeth's younger sister. Darcy buys him an officer's commission, on the condition that he get out of town; because Darcy cannot marry Lizzie if Wickham stays in the south of England and keeps misbehaving in full view of London society, never mind his compulsive flirting with Lizzie and even Darcy's own sister! Whether Jane Austen drew on certain received notions about Brummell's character for her rendering of Wickham, who knows? But we do know the Prince Regent found her books amusing, because he gave Jane Austen the Royal Warrant for her next novel, and invited her to London. "Pride and Prejudice" was published in 1813, smack in the middle of the Prince's quarrel with Brummell, culminating in that throwdown at The Dandy Ball. Perhaps the Prince caught the reference to Manchester, and like everyone else connected to George Brummell, he read into it what he wanted; which again tells us more about the Prince than it does about Brummell.
All I can say for certain about the subject, is that something of George Brummell got into anything worth knowing or doing during his lifetime, which is very hard work for someone who seemed determined to spend his life knowing and doing nothing worthwhile. What that tells about me, I don't know. Maybe that I'm an idiot to ask the question? User: M!ssDevlin M!ssDevlin ( talk) 23:39, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
I have trouble with this passage about Beau Brummell merely linking to "fashion," a very INCOMPLETE page. George Brummell should be linked to the '1795-1820 in fashion" page, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regency_fashion#Men.27s_fashion
For some reason, when I try to link Men of fashion to Beau Brummel, it leads to the woefully incomplete 'fashion' page instead.
At the bottom of "1795-1820 in fashion" sits an entire piece about dandies and Beau Brummell. I have more faith in the "1795-1820 in fashion" link than the plain "Fashion" link, since the research in the former is more rigorous.
Please help to make the changes! Vsanborn 04:02, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey, can anyone figure out what the reference to Beau Brommer in Billy Joel's song means? It's nice to talk about it in the article but I think an explanation of the lyric would be good. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.182.51 ( talk) 23:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
When reading such a biographic article, I'd like to find something about the married status (or otherwise) of the subject. As the text stands now, women didn't exist for Brummell except as society figures. But did they?-- Kauko56 ( talk) 12:30, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
Andreas Papandreou referred to Akis Tsochatzopoulos as Beautiful Brummel. It was his nickname.Many people in Greece ignore who the real Brummel was. Should there be a reference in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.73.27 ( talk) 14:49, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
This is unclear:
Does this mean
jnestorius( talk) 15:22, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The article says that Brummell competed for the prize in 1793. However, according to Newdigate prize article it wasn't founded until 1806. Gunnar Larsson ( talk) 22:49, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
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The ODNB gives mother's name, correctly, as Mary Richardson but for some reason the wrong name, Jane, has crept in to this article. George Bryan Brummell's baptism record is available online through the Ancestry.com site and clearly shows the mother's name as Mary. Also, Jane Richardson, the Beau's aunt is known to have married Samuel Brawne and is the grandmother of Fanny Brawne, John Keats' fiancee. I am new to editing and don't know how to put this fact right. Putthemright ( talk) 10:50, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Good Job!
"All about the dandy, with good links" — Sunday Times (London), October 9, 2005 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 30, 2020 and March 30, 2021. |
How would you pronounce "Beau Brummell"—the former in French, the latter in English? Sounds kinda awkward! Maikel 20:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
We need to specify the speciic person who is the "Prince Regent" in this article, who followed King George III of England. Edison 05:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I can't imagine why a man of good taste and fashion would abandon his career rather than be posted to Manchester. Could someone expand on this? Drutt 02:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
And it hasn't improved much now :) I'm with Beau. "Think your Royal Highness - Manchester!!" ( Goldmanuk ( talk) 19:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC))
A lot of the stories about George Brummell are told a different way in every biography of the man, leading me to believe the biographies tell more about the author than the subject. There are a lot of details left out of the Manchester story, among others: The Tenth Hussars were being posted there to put down rioting millworkers; which would have forced Brummell, who was the son of a political liberal and grandson of a personal servant, to punish a group of people he may have felt had a right to protest their mistreatment. The Prince of Wales led this liberal Whig party, which was out of power during the late eighteenth century, but which had practically all of the best politicians and society hostesses in its ranks. Many sources discuss this in general terms, particularly anything about Charles James Fox, Richard Brinsley Sheridan, the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire (Georgiana Spencer Cavendish), Charles Grey (who was to become a Prime Minister, then an Earl, and the inventor of "Earl Grey Tea" somewhere along the way), or Lord Byron (whose first speech before Parliament was in defense of independent Scottish weavers, who broke up factory machines with hammers, and were sentenced to be hung by a Tory judge). All of these fine people were on terms of friendship with George Brummell, at various times during his career in London.
One interesting thing I have picked up about Brummell from his own stories about himself (including the joke he made about "Think, Your Royal Highness - Manchester!") is that he was always the first to undercut his own arrogant persona; he presented himself in his own words as a snob, a fool, and a coward who could barely ride a horse or fire a gun. There are several versions of the "horse broke my nose" story to be found in different biographies as well. From other evidence to be found in these same biographies, it would seem the truth was more complex: Brummell hated ostentation without humour (which is probably why he got along so well with the Prince of Wales for as long as he did, as the Prince never took himself in deadly earnest); and for Brummell the best sport of all was bullying those who were used to bullying everyone else. He was disgusted by cruelty to animals, and most likely supported the Prince's ban on duels between men. But he knew better than to openly voice such opinions in a Tory-controlled London society; instead, he resorted to wisecracks to get his point across. Ultimately this may have made him even more enemies, because if there's one thing bullies hate it is humor, and they must have at least dimly perceived they were Brummell's real targets.
As to why the Prince fell out with Brummell, I do suspect it involved politics, since the date coincides with that of the Prince finally being given Regency powers by the Tory Parliament. So who knows? Maybe the Stewart Granger movie really is closer to the truth than not; and by the way, the "Lady Patricia" character probably did exist, as Sir William Pitt's real niece, Lady Hester Stanhope. She seems to have shared an intense relationship of some kind with Brummell, until the death of her uncle left her virtually penniless. Brummell's income could never have supported both of them in the manner to which they were accustomed; and she left England six years before he followed. They never saw each other again; although she did run into a very young Lord Byron on his way back to England from the East, and Byron wrote in his journal that he found her not to his taste at all (too bossy!) but that she had "a mind more free of received notions" than "other she-things", which merited his backhanded praise. On his return to London, Byron became friends with Brummell, until he too had to flee England under a cloud of scandal. Lady Hester never remarked upon her meeting with Byron; but towards the end of her life she told an English tourist that she only missed one man from her days in high society, George Brummell. Then the tourist wrote a biography of Lady Hester, which gives a divergent and probably more accurate picture of the so-called Beau than the better-known books full of received notions on the subject.
Ah, but I wander far from Manchester. One final resting place where Brummell's joke most likely found immortality - or at least notoriety - is in Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice": The bad boy, Mr. Wickham, is packed off to Manchester by Mr. Darcy in order to save the Bennett family reputation, after he has eloped with Elizabeth's younger sister. Darcy buys him an officer's commission, on the condition that he get out of town; because Darcy cannot marry Lizzie if Wickham stays in the south of England and keeps misbehaving in full view of London society, never mind his compulsive flirting with Lizzie and even Darcy's own sister! Whether Jane Austen drew on certain received notions about Brummell's character for her rendering of Wickham, who knows? But we do know the Prince Regent found her books amusing, because he gave Jane Austen the Royal Warrant for her next novel, and invited her to London. "Pride and Prejudice" was published in 1813, smack in the middle of the Prince's quarrel with Brummell, culminating in that throwdown at The Dandy Ball. Perhaps the Prince caught the reference to Manchester, and like everyone else connected to George Brummell, he read into it what he wanted; which again tells us more about the Prince than it does about Brummell.
All I can say for certain about the subject, is that something of George Brummell got into anything worth knowing or doing during his lifetime, which is very hard work for someone who seemed determined to spend his life knowing and doing nothing worthwhile. What that tells about me, I don't know. Maybe that I'm an idiot to ask the question? User: M!ssDevlin M!ssDevlin ( talk) 23:39, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
I have trouble with this passage about Beau Brummell merely linking to "fashion," a very INCOMPLETE page. George Brummell should be linked to the '1795-1820 in fashion" page, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regency_fashion#Men.27s_fashion
For some reason, when I try to link Men of fashion to Beau Brummel, it leads to the woefully incomplete 'fashion' page instead.
At the bottom of "1795-1820 in fashion" sits an entire piece about dandies and Beau Brummell. I have more faith in the "1795-1820 in fashion" link than the plain "Fashion" link, since the research in the former is more rigorous.
Please help to make the changes! Vsanborn 04:02, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey, can anyone figure out what the reference to Beau Brommer in Billy Joel's song means? It's nice to talk about it in the article but I think an explanation of the lyric would be good. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.182.51 ( talk) 23:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
When reading such a biographic article, I'd like to find something about the married status (or otherwise) of the subject. As the text stands now, women didn't exist for Brummell except as society figures. But did they?-- Kauko56 ( talk) 12:30, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
Andreas Papandreou referred to Akis Tsochatzopoulos as Beautiful Brummel. It was his nickname.Many people in Greece ignore who the real Brummel was. Should there be a reference in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.73.27 ( talk) 14:49, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
This is unclear:
Does this mean
jnestorius( talk) 15:22, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The article says that Brummell competed for the prize in 1793. However, according to Newdigate prize article it wasn't founded until 1806. Gunnar Larsson ( talk) 22:49, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:49, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
The ODNB gives mother's name, correctly, as Mary Richardson but for some reason the wrong name, Jane, has crept in to this article. George Bryan Brummell's baptism record is available online through the Ancestry.com site and clearly shows the mother's name as Mary. Also, Jane Richardson, the Beau's aunt is known to have married Samuel Brawne and is the grandmother of Fanny Brawne, John Keats' fiancee. I am new to editing and don't know how to put this fact right. Putthemright ( talk) 10:50, 22 July 2023 (UTC)