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This line is just... incomprehensible. I don't even know what the person who wrote this was getting at, so I don't want to edit it and ruin the meaning.
From what it looks like, it may supposed to all be one sentence, but not only does that not help understand it, but it makes it one heck of a run-on sentence. Could anyone decipher this for me? 74.47.41.250 ( talk) 14:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Is Sir Thomas Urquhart important enough that his participation in the battle, and his misfortunes afterward, should be mentioned here, do y'all reckon? -- Jim Henry ( talk) 17:20, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
For B-class, the minimum citation / referencing density is one ref per paragraph. On that basis, this currently fails B-class. Roger Davies talk 06:10, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
This is covered in some detail in the article on Fort Royal Hill. Does it need repeating here? 81.151.28.43 ( talk) 23:06, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
I have renamed Charles II as "Charles Stuart" in most contexts in the article, essentially to be neutral, but of course to be more accurate historically and consistent in Style. So for example the article refers to "Cromwell's forces, never "Oliver's Forces", so I've taken out references to "Charles" and generally inserted "Stuart" to be consistent. The rationale is that at the time England was Republic, and so he did not become Charles II until the Restoration o Counter Revolution if you prefer! However of course the historical context is more complex- there is a point of view that he had become King by the time his father's head had touched the bottom of the basket- and indeed in Scotland he was declared Charles II, and of course was recognised as Charles II by English Royalists. So where the article refers to forces loyal to Charles II- I have kept Charles II (rather than use Charles Stuart) since those forces did recognise him as King. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.98.18.85 ( talk) 21:31, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
I do not agree with the addition of " Escape of Charles II" to the result= parameter in the battle box. [1] As user:TRAJAN 117 has added it at least twice. I guess we need to see what the consensus her on the talk page is for this addition. -- PBS ( talk) 14:00, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
I have removed the reference to 'battle-hardened Scottish highlanders' holding Powick Bridge, the reference serves no purpose beyond the usual Scottish nationalist conceits - as explained elsewhere in the article, the Royalist army was principally Scottish and, after a decade of Civil War, there were a large proportion of battle-hardened soldiers on both sides. If we're going to talk about battle-hardened troops, why not talk about the battle-hardened Essex Militia who thrashed the Scots off Fort Royal Hill. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.153.135 ( talk) 16:29, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
A shameful defamation of these bewoaded alpha male bravehearts. Your implication that English soldiers of this or any other era could be anything other than sadistic cowards is problematic to say the least, as is your suggestion that they could have inflicted a defeat of any kind on these brave Celtic supermen. Shiresman ( talk) 00:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
As per 81.152.153.135|81.152.153.135 above I have removed the reintroduction of 'battle-hardened Scottish highlanders' - the fact that there's a citation for this doesn't undermine the points made above - the reference is pursuing an agenda, it is not pertinent to the description of the battle because the armies on both sides were battle-hardened. There's little doubt the Scottish Highlanders had a reputation for tenacity on the battlefield during the Civil Wars (see for example the 2006 lecture by Gerry Douds to the Battle of Worcester Society 'Defeat Not Dishonour: Scots at Worcester 1651' in 'The Battle of Worcester 1651: A Collection of Essays on the History of the Battle of Worcester 1651' published by the Battle of Worcester Society (ISBN-10: 0957242115) in 2012), but why should they get singled out for particular mention? A quick browse through the above volume and Malcolm Atkin (2008) 'Worcester 1651', Barnsley: Pen & Sword - a work which might reasonably be described as as definitive as we currently have on the battle, makes it clear that the armies on both sides were highly experienced and capable at this point (we only get as far as page 22 of Atkin's work before we find a reference to the ranks of the English county militias being 'swelled by battle-hardened veterans' from the English New Model Army). I could go through this entire Wikipedia article putting words to the effect of 'battle-hardened', 'hoary warriors' or 'veteran pikewielders' in front of every reference to an English unit at the battle and find a far better published reference for each instance than the 100-year old work of a pioneering local historian, but Wikipedia shouldn't be being used for pursuing agendas based on nationalist conceits or condescending stereotyping - this kind of behaviour stinks, the reference to 'battle-hardened Scottish highlanders' should be removed and stay removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.18.241 ( talk) 12:02, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
How about a compromise - since the Royalists at the bridge put up a determined resistance they were self evidently "battle hardened" men to some degree, why not transfer the epithet to them as a whole? That is:
"...stubborn resistance by the battle-hardened Royalists (many of whom were Scottish Highlanders) commanded by Colonel Keith."
Urselius ( talk) 07:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
I reverted the change: Charles I "was deposed and executed". Back to "was executed". AfAICT the bill to abolish the monarchy was passed after his execution and only applied to England and Ireland ( Act abolishing the Office of King, 17 March, 1649).
The second change was an inline comment which I am moving here for further discussion:
The wording is a direct copy from EB1911 "Great Rebellion" article. I think what the author meant was that Charles realised that the game was up as the North had not greed him with open arms and flocked to his banner -- rather most of the English saw him commanding a Scottish army not a Royalist one -- His only slim hope was that by going west he could gather support from the Marshes and Wales, because to carry on straight to London was certain defeat. The Worcester option also proved fatal because few Royalist from the Midlands or Wales came to join him (A Scottish army had been in Worcestershire in 1645 during the First Civil War and had inured themselves with the locals (Willis-Bund, 1905, p. 177)). By going Worcester Charles was following up a slim chance that more men, particularly those from Wales would come and join his army, they did not so he went down to inevitable defeat. However if he had continued straight to London which has his only other option, he would have had even less chance of victory as for certain none would have to his aid and he would have been engaged and defeated a few days earlier. -- PBS ( talk) 12:31, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
You might want to use this new image - it's 17th century, but not as dynamic as the 19th century image on this page now. - PKM ( talk) 01:42, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
I have moved these two sentences here:
After the battle, Cromwell returned to Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, one of the parliamentarian strongholds and close to the seat of his late cousin the civil war hero John Hampden. He stayed at the aptly named King's Head Inn, Aylesbury and it was here that he received the thanks of Parliament for his final defeat of the Royalists. citation needed
because a citation has been requested since August 2010, and although I can find lots of citations to says that Cromwell visited King's Head Inn, Aylesbury, I could not find one that states he was there after the battle or that he received the thanks of Parliament while lodged there. I would have thought that if this was true the owners the National Trust would mention it on their website https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/kings-head/. If verifiable it is a nice detail as it balances the Charles's escape, but it needs a reliable source to back it up. -- PBS ( talk) 20:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
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Can't find a source for the public exhibit and going by "Westminster 1640–60: A royal city in a time of revolution" it appears the deaths were due to a mix of hunger, exposure and living in a 17th century prisoner of war camp with 1000+ other people. Doesn't appear to have been systematic with nominal aid from the parish authorities and perhaps rather less nominal aid from people living in the area. ©Geni ( talk) 20:33, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, just instantly remove this if unsourced. Highly typical for these kinds of articles, sadly.
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 3, 2013, September 3, 2015, September 3, 2019, and September 3, 2021. |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This line is just... incomprehensible. I don't even know what the person who wrote this was getting at, so I don't want to edit it and ruin the meaning.
From what it looks like, it may supposed to all be one sentence, but not only does that not help understand it, but it makes it one heck of a run-on sentence. Could anyone decipher this for me? 74.47.41.250 ( talk) 14:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Is Sir Thomas Urquhart important enough that his participation in the battle, and his misfortunes afterward, should be mentioned here, do y'all reckon? -- Jim Henry ( talk) 17:20, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
For B-class, the minimum citation / referencing density is one ref per paragraph. On that basis, this currently fails B-class. Roger Davies talk 06:10, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
This is covered in some detail in the article on Fort Royal Hill. Does it need repeating here? 81.151.28.43 ( talk) 23:06, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
I have renamed Charles II as "Charles Stuart" in most contexts in the article, essentially to be neutral, but of course to be more accurate historically and consistent in Style. So for example the article refers to "Cromwell's forces, never "Oliver's Forces", so I've taken out references to "Charles" and generally inserted "Stuart" to be consistent. The rationale is that at the time England was Republic, and so he did not become Charles II until the Restoration o Counter Revolution if you prefer! However of course the historical context is more complex- there is a point of view that he had become King by the time his father's head had touched the bottom of the basket- and indeed in Scotland he was declared Charles II, and of course was recognised as Charles II by English Royalists. So where the article refers to forces loyal to Charles II- I have kept Charles II (rather than use Charles Stuart) since those forces did recognise him as King. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.98.18.85 ( talk) 21:31, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
I do not agree with the addition of " Escape of Charles II" to the result= parameter in the battle box. [1] As user:TRAJAN 117 has added it at least twice. I guess we need to see what the consensus her on the talk page is for this addition. -- PBS ( talk) 14:00, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
I have removed the reference to 'battle-hardened Scottish highlanders' holding Powick Bridge, the reference serves no purpose beyond the usual Scottish nationalist conceits - as explained elsewhere in the article, the Royalist army was principally Scottish and, after a decade of Civil War, there were a large proportion of battle-hardened soldiers on both sides. If we're going to talk about battle-hardened troops, why not talk about the battle-hardened Essex Militia who thrashed the Scots off Fort Royal Hill. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.153.135 ( talk) 16:29, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
A shameful defamation of these bewoaded alpha male bravehearts. Your implication that English soldiers of this or any other era could be anything other than sadistic cowards is problematic to say the least, as is your suggestion that they could have inflicted a defeat of any kind on these brave Celtic supermen. Shiresman ( talk) 00:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
As per 81.152.153.135|81.152.153.135 above I have removed the reintroduction of 'battle-hardened Scottish highlanders' - the fact that there's a citation for this doesn't undermine the points made above - the reference is pursuing an agenda, it is not pertinent to the description of the battle because the armies on both sides were battle-hardened. There's little doubt the Scottish Highlanders had a reputation for tenacity on the battlefield during the Civil Wars (see for example the 2006 lecture by Gerry Douds to the Battle of Worcester Society 'Defeat Not Dishonour: Scots at Worcester 1651' in 'The Battle of Worcester 1651: A Collection of Essays on the History of the Battle of Worcester 1651' published by the Battle of Worcester Society (ISBN-10: 0957242115) in 2012), but why should they get singled out for particular mention? A quick browse through the above volume and Malcolm Atkin (2008) 'Worcester 1651', Barnsley: Pen & Sword - a work which might reasonably be described as as definitive as we currently have on the battle, makes it clear that the armies on both sides were highly experienced and capable at this point (we only get as far as page 22 of Atkin's work before we find a reference to the ranks of the English county militias being 'swelled by battle-hardened veterans' from the English New Model Army). I could go through this entire Wikipedia article putting words to the effect of 'battle-hardened', 'hoary warriors' or 'veteran pikewielders' in front of every reference to an English unit at the battle and find a far better published reference for each instance than the 100-year old work of a pioneering local historian, but Wikipedia shouldn't be being used for pursuing agendas based on nationalist conceits or condescending stereotyping - this kind of behaviour stinks, the reference to 'battle-hardened Scottish highlanders' should be removed and stay removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.18.241 ( talk) 12:02, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
How about a compromise - since the Royalists at the bridge put up a determined resistance they were self evidently "battle hardened" men to some degree, why not transfer the epithet to them as a whole? That is:
"...stubborn resistance by the battle-hardened Royalists (many of whom were Scottish Highlanders) commanded by Colonel Keith."
Urselius ( talk) 07:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
I reverted the change: Charles I "was deposed and executed". Back to "was executed". AfAICT the bill to abolish the monarchy was passed after his execution and only applied to England and Ireland ( Act abolishing the Office of King, 17 March, 1649).
The second change was an inline comment which I am moving here for further discussion:
The wording is a direct copy from EB1911 "Great Rebellion" article. I think what the author meant was that Charles realised that the game was up as the North had not greed him with open arms and flocked to his banner -- rather most of the English saw him commanding a Scottish army not a Royalist one -- His only slim hope was that by going west he could gather support from the Marshes and Wales, because to carry on straight to London was certain defeat. The Worcester option also proved fatal because few Royalist from the Midlands or Wales came to join him (A Scottish army had been in Worcestershire in 1645 during the First Civil War and had inured themselves with the locals (Willis-Bund, 1905, p. 177)). By going Worcester Charles was following up a slim chance that more men, particularly those from Wales would come and join his army, they did not so he went down to inevitable defeat. However if he had continued straight to London which has his only other option, he would have had even less chance of victory as for certain none would have to his aid and he would have been engaged and defeated a few days earlier. -- PBS ( talk) 12:31, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
You might want to use this new image - it's 17th century, but not as dynamic as the 19th century image on this page now. - PKM ( talk) 01:42, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
I have moved these two sentences here:
After the battle, Cromwell returned to Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, one of the parliamentarian strongholds and close to the seat of his late cousin the civil war hero John Hampden. He stayed at the aptly named King's Head Inn, Aylesbury and it was here that he received the thanks of Parliament for his final defeat of the Royalists. citation needed
because a citation has been requested since August 2010, and although I can find lots of citations to says that Cromwell visited King's Head Inn, Aylesbury, I could not find one that states he was there after the battle or that he received the thanks of Parliament while lodged there. I would have thought that if this was true the owners the National Trust would mention it on their website https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/kings-head/. If verifiable it is a nice detail as it balances the Charles's escape, but it needs a reliable source to back it up. -- PBS ( talk) 20:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Battle of Worcester. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:34, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Can't find a source for the public exhibit and going by "Westminster 1640–60: A royal city in a time of revolution" it appears the deaths were due to a mix of hunger, exposure and living in a 17th century prisoner of war camp with 1000+ other people. Doesn't appear to have been systematic with nominal aid from the parish authorities and perhaps rather less nominal aid from people living in the area. ©Geni ( talk) 20:33, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, just instantly remove this if unsourced. Highly typical for these kinds of articles, sadly.