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Your account of the Battle of Sisak is entirely based on Croatian sources, which are because of the border depute with Slovenia to a large extend falsified. A faire account of the events can be obtained in Johann Weichard Valvasor book: Die Ehre des Herzogtums Krain. The basic fact is that in 1593 Sisak was a part and under the command of Duchy of Carniola (Herzogtum Krain, Vojvodina Kranjska). Croatia as such after its annihilating defeat from Turks on Krbavsko polje in 1498 did not exist. In 1593 Turks wanted to capture Sisak one of the border fortresses of Krain. Krain was left pretty alone to defend it. Krain was at that time predominantly protestant and catholic Styria and the remnants of Croatia did not want to help out. So the outnumbered army of Krain under the command of Andreas von Auersperg marched in two days from Ljubljana to Sisak and engaged and defeated Turks. For the victory in this battle Krain received a thanksgiving letter from pope significantly addressed: Dem krainer Fussvolk. June 22 after that became the holyday for the city of Ljubljana, which they were forced to abandon after the establishment of Yugoslavia. Political significance for Krain of this battle is the same as of the battle of Agincourt for England and secondly this was the first decisive victory of European firearms against the Asian cavalry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrejUmek ( talk • contribs) 10:18, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Fascinating how numbers can vary: Figures for the Turks: 10,000 - 38,000 (
T. A. Mursalo,In search of a better life,1981, p.21) - 40,000 ( Stormfront - postings);
Turkish casualties: 2,000 (
Ivo Omrčanin: Military history of Croatia, Bryn Mawr, Pa.: Dorrance,1984 p.90) - 20,000 (German WP)
Christians: 4,000 - 5,800 troops; just 40 - 50 casualties
"5000 Slovenian men led by Count Andrej Turjaški defeated 40.000 strong Turk army:
It is interesting to note that the deciding battle with Andrej Turjaški leading the charge lasted a mere hour in which 10.000 Turks were dead including their commander Hasan Predojevic (who was not a Turk by birth, but was made a Turk Pasha - one of the many Janichars, i.e. white children kidnapped or forcefully taken away from their parents at a young age in Ottoman occupied territories to brain wash and train them to become Turk soldiers).
This battle was a classic case of Turkish arrogance where they were so sure of their win because of their overwhelming numbers they got slaughtered instead. The Turks were pounded from the front and the flanks and could not retreat back down the bridge on Kolpa because the Slovenian cavalry of the Carniola knight Adam Ravbar who was part of the Slovenian contingent managed to carve deep through the enemy's ranks and occupy the bridge. The Turks were surrounded unable to go forward or retreat. Amidst their panic they started to jump into the river Kolpa to save themselves, but most of them were caught and slaughtered at the embankments of the river, on the bridge itself or in the water. Many drowned for lack of swimming skills as well"
OR ANOTHER posting, same address:
"In the year 1591 Hasan Predojevic became leader of Turks in Bosnia, he had ambitions to conquer Vojna Krajina and later Slovenia (Carniola and Styria). He counquered the fortress of Bihac near river Una in 1592 on the border of Vojna Krajina, he got only the fortress of Sisak left. If they would won there then Slovenia would fall very quickly. On 15th of June 1593 Hasan and 40.000 Turks started the siege of Sisak. 7 days later on the 22nd of June 1593 Andrej Turjaski arrived from Slovenia with Slovenian army and some Croats and Germans to help. He had an army of 4.000 - 5.000 men and was heavily outnumbered. Turks atacked over the bridge from the left side of Kolpa river, Andrej Turjaski sent his cavalry into fight and pushed the Turks back to the brigde. When he saw that the Turks are retreating he sent the rest of his army into fight. Chaos and disorder started in the Turkish army, the bridge over Kolpa river was to small for Turks to retreat. Many of them tried to swim over the river but almoust all of them drowned including their leader Hasan Predojevic. Slovenians won the battle and around 10.000 Turks were dead."[http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=166238&page=15 2 Stormfront -postings]--
Marschner (
talk) 11:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
More details and sources according to postings on
Miniature Wargaming: Battle of Sisak 1593:
With ref. to Rempas Yahoo group (2004) by
Brian A. Hodson PhD, Purdue Univ.:
Habsburgs: Commander: Andreas v. Auersperg
(= Austrian total: 3090)
Ottomans: Commander: Hassan Dervis, Pasha of Bosna
(= Ottoman total: 21 100)
Sources:
-- Marschner ( talk) 08:30, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
40-50 casualties? You are kidding me right? I am going to find some more reliable numbers.
@ Hasan-aga:, we normally use flag and flagicon templates for these cases. The flag you added used to be a parameter of those templates, but it was removed from Template:Country data Ottoman Empire, because those flags were deemed to be fictitious and unsourced. Do you have any reason to believe that the flag you added is not a made-up one, but actually used by the Ottoman Empire during those centuries? If so, you may consider chiming in the discussion at Template talk:Country data Ottoman Empire. (And Talk:Flags of the Ottoman Empire, they were removed from that article as well).-- Orwellianist ( talk) 14:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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Good source for a lot of details
Tko nosi odgovornost za poraz turske vojske kod Siska 20. ramazana 1001. godine (22. lipnja 1593)? Who is responsible for the defeat of the Turkish army at Sisak on the 20th of Ramadan 1001 (June 22, 1593)? https://hrcak.srce.hr/50021 104.158.53.149 ( talk) 02:27, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 22, 2011, June 22, 2013, June 22, 2014, June 22, 2018, June 22, 2021, and June 22, 2023. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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Your account of the Battle of Sisak is entirely based on Croatian sources, which are because of the border depute with Slovenia to a large extend falsified. A faire account of the events can be obtained in Johann Weichard Valvasor book: Die Ehre des Herzogtums Krain. The basic fact is that in 1593 Sisak was a part and under the command of Duchy of Carniola (Herzogtum Krain, Vojvodina Kranjska). Croatia as such after its annihilating defeat from Turks on Krbavsko polje in 1498 did not exist. In 1593 Turks wanted to capture Sisak one of the border fortresses of Krain. Krain was left pretty alone to defend it. Krain was at that time predominantly protestant and catholic Styria and the remnants of Croatia did not want to help out. So the outnumbered army of Krain under the command of Andreas von Auersperg marched in two days from Ljubljana to Sisak and engaged and defeated Turks. For the victory in this battle Krain received a thanksgiving letter from pope significantly addressed: Dem krainer Fussvolk. June 22 after that became the holyday for the city of Ljubljana, which they were forced to abandon after the establishment of Yugoslavia. Political significance for Krain of this battle is the same as of the battle of Agincourt for England and secondly this was the first decisive victory of European firearms against the Asian cavalry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrejUmek ( talk • contribs) 10:18, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Fascinating how numbers can vary: Figures for the Turks: 10,000 - 38,000 (
T. A. Mursalo,In search of a better life,1981, p.21) - 40,000 ( Stormfront - postings);
Turkish casualties: 2,000 (
Ivo Omrčanin: Military history of Croatia, Bryn Mawr, Pa.: Dorrance,1984 p.90) - 20,000 (German WP)
Christians: 4,000 - 5,800 troops; just 40 - 50 casualties
"5000 Slovenian men led by Count Andrej Turjaški defeated 40.000 strong Turk army:
It is interesting to note that the deciding battle with Andrej Turjaški leading the charge lasted a mere hour in which 10.000 Turks were dead including their commander Hasan Predojevic (who was not a Turk by birth, but was made a Turk Pasha - one of the many Janichars, i.e. white children kidnapped or forcefully taken away from their parents at a young age in Ottoman occupied territories to brain wash and train them to become Turk soldiers).
This battle was a classic case of Turkish arrogance where they were so sure of their win because of their overwhelming numbers they got slaughtered instead. The Turks were pounded from the front and the flanks and could not retreat back down the bridge on Kolpa because the Slovenian cavalry of the Carniola knight Adam Ravbar who was part of the Slovenian contingent managed to carve deep through the enemy's ranks and occupy the bridge. The Turks were surrounded unable to go forward or retreat. Amidst their panic they started to jump into the river Kolpa to save themselves, but most of them were caught and slaughtered at the embankments of the river, on the bridge itself or in the water. Many drowned for lack of swimming skills as well"
OR ANOTHER posting, same address:
"In the year 1591 Hasan Predojevic became leader of Turks in Bosnia, he had ambitions to conquer Vojna Krajina and later Slovenia (Carniola and Styria). He counquered the fortress of Bihac near river Una in 1592 on the border of Vojna Krajina, he got only the fortress of Sisak left. If they would won there then Slovenia would fall very quickly. On 15th of June 1593 Hasan and 40.000 Turks started the siege of Sisak. 7 days later on the 22nd of June 1593 Andrej Turjaski arrived from Slovenia with Slovenian army and some Croats and Germans to help. He had an army of 4.000 - 5.000 men and was heavily outnumbered. Turks atacked over the bridge from the left side of Kolpa river, Andrej Turjaski sent his cavalry into fight and pushed the Turks back to the brigde. When he saw that the Turks are retreating he sent the rest of his army into fight. Chaos and disorder started in the Turkish army, the bridge over Kolpa river was to small for Turks to retreat. Many of them tried to swim over the river but almoust all of them drowned including their leader Hasan Predojevic. Slovenians won the battle and around 10.000 Turks were dead."[http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=166238&page=15 2 Stormfront -postings]--
Marschner (
talk) 11:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
More details and sources according to postings on
Miniature Wargaming: Battle of Sisak 1593:
With ref. to Rempas Yahoo group (2004) by
Brian A. Hodson PhD, Purdue Univ.:
Habsburgs: Commander: Andreas v. Auersperg
(= Austrian total: 3090)
Ottomans: Commander: Hassan Dervis, Pasha of Bosna
(= Ottoman total: 21 100)
Sources:
-- Marschner ( talk) 08:30, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
40-50 casualties? You are kidding me right? I am going to find some more reliable numbers.
@ Hasan-aga:, we normally use flag and flagicon templates for these cases. The flag you added used to be a parameter of those templates, but it was removed from Template:Country data Ottoman Empire, because those flags were deemed to be fictitious and unsourced. Do you have any reason to believe that the flag you added is not a made-up one, but actually used by the Ottoman Empire during those centuries? If so, you may consider chiming in the discussion at Template talk:Country data Ottoman Empire. (And Talk:Flags of the Ottoman Empire, they were removed from that article as well).-- Orwellianist ( talk) 14:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Battle of Sisak. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:50, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Good source for a lot of details
Tko nosi odgovornost za poraz turske vojske kod Siska 20. ramazana 1001. godine (22. lipnja 1593)? Who is responsible for the defeat of the Turkish army at Sisak on the 20th of Ramadan 1001 (June 22, 1593)? https://hrcak.srce.hr/50021 104.158.53.149 ( talk) 02:27, 26 May 2024 (UTC)