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The modern spelling is San Pasqual-should it be changed? Max 097 08:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
The image entitled "Battle of San Pasqual painting" is incorrect. Its actual title is "Lancers at La Mesa" from a different battle that followed San Pasqual. The correct image is available at the Command Museum Marine Corp Recruit Depot, San Diego' They are very helpful there.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:1d00:827:9965:d236:6fcd:6ef1 ( talk • contribs) 10:35, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
The first line of the article had an obvious error... it had said "San Pascual (also spelled San Pascual)." Either of the following could have been intended,
but I corrected it to the former because it coincides better with the title of the article. Jim 00:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
How do you make out that the Mexican/Californio forces were the "rebels"? Surely they should be called the Loyalists, no?
--miguelj in san Diego
I agree senior Miguel..most accounts about this time period are full of POV relative to American interests..every article you read has this POV, i.e., Kerney marching across the desert, and his weary men...what a load of BS, they want you to feel sorry for him and his men, and an excuse as to why they lost to the Mexicans..who Kit Carson said were "lazy, and had no will to fight"..the Californio had only Lances and they fought regular US army with muskets, and were outnumbered, and still defeated them, killing 22 in the process.....it's up to folks like us to try to articulate the history with facts and reason void of emotion...in fact the Californio's were true patriots and should be recognized as loyalist "heros" for the defense of "their" sovereign land that they displayed in the battles for Southern California.... DonDeigo 15:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
-- That may be, but this article is loaded with pro-Mexican/Californio bias, which needs to be toned down.
P1340 15 March '08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributions/68.126.5.53 ([[User talk:|talk]]) 12:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
How do you corolate lances against muskets? and the figure of 150 Californio's is incorrect, they were in the 40 man range...get real... at any rate, how anyone could call the actions of the Americans in this agression anything but pathedic, is not in reality...if the truth of this encounter would have been made aware to the US congress in a timly manner,i.e., Lincoln, etc, this California agression would have been called off immediatly....guns aaginst lances, Americans and their decendants should be ashamed of themselves.... DonDeigo 16:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
"The badly beaten and terrified American forces". Come on! (P1340) 16 March 08
Nothing about Carson's Midnight Crawl? After the defeat by the Californios Kearny sent Carson on a mission to get word to Stockton to send reiforcements. The problem was the Californios held the territory between San Pasqual and San Diego where Stockton was anchored in San Diego Bay. Carson and a naval lieutenant named Edward Beale along with an indian guide slipped past the Californios under cover of darkness on Dec. 8th, 1846, but in the process, Carson and Beale lost their boots (They had removed their boots so they would make less noise. The indian guide was wearing moccasins.) The three split up and took different routes to San Diego, Carson taking the longest, and all three eventually made their way to the bay and Stockton. Carson and Beale made the entire trek barefoot. Their feet were swollen and had numerous cuts. Neither could walk for several days after. Their mission a success, Stockton learned of the situation at San Pasqual and sent 120 sailors and 80 Marines to Kearny's rescue. Historian Benard DeVoto called Carson's "Midnight Crawl" to San Diego "high among the exploits of the master moutain man." Source: Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides. As a native San Diegan, the names Kearny, Carson, and Gillespie are familiar names but I never knew who these men where and what they mean to San Diego's history.
==
"...it was one of many battles and skirmishes where the Californios bested American forces in Southern California."
Such as?
-P1340 March 16 '08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributions/68.126.5.53 ([[User talk:|talk]]) 12:19, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Such as The Battle of Dominguez Ranch, The Siege of Los Angeles, The Battle of Los Angeles, and numerous other small engagements and skirmishes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributions/76.95.138.22 ([[User talk:|talk]]) 07:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Add the "Battle" of Chino, and in which Americans--local civilians--defended an adobe against a Mexican force from Los Angeles until the attackers, after losing one single man, set fire to the roof of the structure, which had been coated with pitch (from La Brea) to waterproof it. The 'American' forces surrendered forthwith. Terry J. Carter ( talk) 23:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
A user has provided some possible sources and some perspective on this and other battles. How it can be used is left to other editors. I have had a bit of an edit war with this gentleman, primarily because he had changed the tone of the article to reflect an American victory. This was in contradiction to the history of the article and to other articles that cover this battle. The article had started as showing "favor" to the Mexicans and for most of its history has also conveyed this stance. Another article that agrees with this idea is the list of Battles of the Mexican–American War.
I did convert an existing reference to the inline type. I put it at the point in the article that declares favor to the Mexicans. If there are other sources, like the items that Braverifles provided, that are ambiguous or that favor the Americans, then that info should be integrated into the article with the references clearly cited. E_dog95' Hi ' 00:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
I think it's way too strong to say the Army of the West defeated the Californios in the header. We know that Wikipedia is not perfect, but despite criticism, many sites copy the article content as gospel truth. Examining the facts that the Army was exhausted, poorly uniformed for the hot climate, they were misinformed as to the threat of attack, were meeting fresh Californio citizens who were armed and valorous, had heavy losses while the Californio losses were light, were surrounded and trapped by the Californios on rocky Mule Hill, had to send someone to sneak out at night to get help, and had to have the Navy come rescue them... I think it is strong to say they were victorious, despite some war college's finding 75 years later. - Parsa ( talk) 05:02, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
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BRD falls on @ Jeff in CA:. Not myself.
Jeff in CA added content, it was pruned, Jeff in CA attempted to re-expand, it was pruned, Jeff in CA again attempted to re-expand, again it was pruned. Therefore, let us discuss this before good faith quote expansion happens again without consensus.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 00:35, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
Kearney's march from Fort Leavenworth had been a triumph of exploration and endeavor, and the general had shown astuteness in dealing with his civil duties in establishing a government in New Mexico. Unfortunately, it was as a military commander that he failed both himself and his men in the wholly unnecessary battle at San Pasqual.
For those interested in improving this article, the Wikimedia foundation affiliate in San Diego County will be hosting a Staff Ride on Sunday 5 December 2021.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( Moo) 23:44, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 6, 2019 and December 6, 2023. |
The modern spelling is San Pasqual-should it be changed? Max 097 08:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
The image entitled "Battle of San Pasqual painting" is incorrect. Its actual title is "Lancers at La Mesa" from a different battle that followed San Pasqual. The correct image is available at the Command Museum Marine Corp Recruit Depot, San Diego' They are very helpful there.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:1d00:827:9965:d236:6fcd:6ef1 ( talk • contribs) 10:35, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
The first line of the article had an obvious error... it had said "San Pascual (also spelled San Pascual)." Either of the following could have been intended,
but I corrected it to the former because it coincides better with the title of the article. Jim 00:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
How do you make out that the Mexican/Californio forces were the "rebels"? Surely they should be called the Loyalists, no?
--miguelj in san Diego
I agree senior Miguel..most accounts about this time period are full of POV relative to American interests..every article you read has this POV, i.e., Kerney marching across the desert, and his weary men...what a load of BS, they want you to feel sorry for him and his men, and an excuse as to why they lost to the Mexicans..who Kit Carson said were "lazy, and had no will to fight"..the Californio had only Lances and they fought regular US army with muskets, and were outnumbered, and still defeated them, killing 22 in the process.....it's up to folks like us to try to articulate the history with facts and reason void of emotion...in fact the Californio's were true patriots and should be recognized as loyalist "heros" for the defense of "their" sovereign land that they displayed in the battles for Southern California.... DonDeigo 15:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
-- That may be, but this article is loaded with pro-Mexican/Californio bias, which needs to be toned down.
P1340 15 March '08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributions/68.126.5.53 ([[User talk:|talk]]) 12:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
How do you corolate lances against muskets? and the figure of 150 Californio's is incorrect, they were in the 40 man range...get real... at any rate, how anyone could call the actions of the Americans in this agression anything but pathedic, is not in reality...if the truth of this encounter would have been made aware to the US congress in a timly manner,i.e., Lincoln, etc, this California agression would have been called off immediatly....guns aaginst lances, Americans and their decendants should be ashamed of themselves.... DonDeigo 16:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
"The badly beaten and terrified American forces". Come on! (P1340) 16 March 08
Nothing about Carson's Midnight Crawl? After the defeat by the Californios Kearny sent Carson on a mission to get word to Stockton to send reiforcements. The problem was the Californios held the territory between San Pasqual and San Diego where Stockton was anchored in San Diego Bay. Carson and a naval lieutenant named Edward Beale along with an indian guide slipped past the Californios under cover of darkness on Dec. 8th, 1846, but in the process, Carson and Beale lost their boots (They had removed their boots so they would make less noise. The indian guide was wearing moccasins.) The three split up and took different routes to San Diego, Carson taking the longest, and all three eventually made their way to the bay and Stockton. Carson and Beale made the entire trek barefoot. Their feet were swollen and had numerous cuts. Neither could walk for several days after. Their mission a success, Stockton learned of the situation at San Pasqual and sent 120 sailors and 80 Marines to Kearny's rescue. Historian Benard DeVoto called Carson's "Midnight Crawl" to San Diego "high among the exploits of the master moutain man." Source: Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides. As a native San Diegan, the names Kearny, Carson, and Gillespie are familiar names but I never knew who these men where and what they mean to San Diego's history.
==
"...it was one of many battles and skirmishes where the Californios bested American forces in Southern California."
Such as?
-P1340 March 16 '08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributions/68.126.5.53 ([[User talk:|talk]]) 12:19, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Such as The Battle of Dominguez Ranch, The Siege of Los Angeles, The Battle of Los Angeles, and numerous other small engagements and skirmishes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributions/76.95.138.22 ([[User talk:|talk]]) 07:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Add the "Battle" of Chino, and in which Americans--local civilians--defended an adobe against a Mexican force from Los Angeles until the attackers, after losing one single man, set fire to the roof of the structure, which had been coated with pitch (from La Brea) to waterproof it. The 'American' forces surrendered forthwith. Terry J. Carter ( talk) 23:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
A user has provided some possible sources and some perspective on this and other battles. How it can be used is left to other editors. I have had a bit of an edit war with this gentleman, primarily because he had changed the tone of the article to reflect an American victory. This was in contradiction to the history of the article and to other articles that cover this battle. The article had started as showing "favor" to the Mexicans and for most of its history has also conveyed this stance. Another article that agrees with this idea is the list of Battles of the Mexican–American War.
I did convert an existing reference to the inline type. I put it at the point in the article that declares favor to the Mexicans. If there are other sources, like the items that Braverifles provided, that are ambiguous or that favor the Americans, then that info should be integrated into the article with the references clearly cited. E_dog95' Hi ' 00:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
I think it's way too strong to say the Army of the West defeated the Californios in the header. We know that Wikipedia is not perfect, but despite criticism, many sites copy the article content as gospel truth. Examining the facts that the Army was exhausted, poorly uniformed for the hot climate, they were misinformed as to the threat of attack, were meeting fresh Californio citizens who were armed and valorous, had heavy losses while the Californio losses were light, were surrounded and trapped by the Californios on rocky Mule Hill, had to send someone to sneak out at night to get help, and had to have the Navy come rescue them... I think it is strong to say they were victorious, despite some war college's finding 75 years later. - Parsa ( talk) 05:02, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
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BRD falls on @ Jeff in CA:. Not myself.
Jeff in CA added content, it was pruned, Jeff in CA attempted to re-expand, it was pruned, Jeff in CA again attempted to re-expand, again it was pruned. Therefore, let us discuss this before good faith quote expansion happens again without consensus.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 00:35, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
Kearney's march from Fort Leavenworth had been a triumph of exploration and endeavor, and the general had shown astuteness in dealing with his civil duties in establishing a government in New Mexico. Unfortunately, it was as a military commander that he failed both himself and his men in the wholly unnecessary battle at San Pasqual.
For those interested in improving this article, the Wikimedia foundation affiliate in San Diego County will be hosting a Staff Ride on Sunday 5 December 2021.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( Moo) 23:44, 24 October 2021 (UTC)