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In Spain, I've studied this battle as a spanish victory. As you can see, portuguese forces didn't get anything, but a non-catastrophic defeat.-- PayoMalayo 17:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Portugueses did won this battle, as "Matias de Albuquerque" was ranked "conde de Alegrete"(Count of Alegrete). I learned that the Portuguese forces, with great loses, did victoried push back the spanish forces trow the guadiana river
"Evidences", See: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matias_de_Albuquerque and http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalha_do_Montijo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Struta ( talk • contribs) 14:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC).
The Portuguese did indeed win this battle, it was the first major victory against the Spanish in the War of Restoration. I live in the United States, and ever source I've read says that Portugal won. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monikwee ( talk • contribs) 22:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Fisrt of all, I would like to say I'm portuguese. If no one can reach an agreement, I'll write: "Spanish Strategic Victory; Military Stalemate". Since the Spanish managed to hold their lines, stopping the Portuguese from capturing Badajoz, it is then considered a Strategic Victory. YET, they didn't forced the Portuguese to retreat. So, neither side won the battle. It was a stalemate.
Now, refering to what AQUIMISMO says here, casualties don't tell who won or who lost. A battle can be won, even if the victor's casualties are higher than the defeated (See Phyrric victory). Do you want to talk about what the History forgot? History forgot that the Spanish wanted to have the southern part of Portugal, while the French took the Northern part of it. Yeah, that's right. The Spanish were not victims. Actually, the war was just perfect. They could conquer Portugal as they always wanted, with the help of the French. Oh, and by the way, "Guerrilla" isn't a spanish word. The true word comes from the Portuguese, who were the first to use guerrilla warfare against the spanish, because they didn't had enough military manpower to face them in an open field. The real word is "Guerrinha" (Little war, in portuguese). The Spanish heard of it, but since they could't pronounce the two "r's", they said "guerrilla".
Want to know another thing that history forgot? She forgot that, after helping us in the Peninsular War, the British wanted to take the northern part of Portugal. Portuguese, as obvious, refused, and the British replied with military strenght. The outcome? Portuguese crushing victory. Of course it wasn't diplomatically healthy to the Brits for the world to know that a country weakened by a recent war, defeated the military that clamed to be "the best in the world". That's why the relations between Portugal and Britain became so turbulent. Oh, and PayoMalayo, what you learn in Spain... Dear God. That's why some Spanish come saying to everyone, with all their arrogance, that they the Battle of Aljubarrota was just a "skirmish". Trust me , you won't want to know the sort of crap they teach you...
And, by the way, the Portuguese were at war with the Dutch by the time this battle hapenned. Therefore, it is not possible that the Dutch had helped the Portuguese in this battle. I'm changing that too. I'm changing the outcome. Prtgl93-- Prtgl93 ( talk) 00:59, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
About the article, I'm really confused and in need of help. The french, portuguese, and even the spanish wikipedia say that it was a portuguese victory. The majority of the sources I "googled" and even my encyclopedias say that it was a portuguese victory. Unless someone finds some reliable and convincing information that the spanish actually won the battle, I'm changing the outcome again. Prtgl93-- Prtgl93 ( talk) 14:02, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
It's clear that the majority of the anglo-saxon sources attribute the victory to the Portuguese. [1] It seems to me that any Spanish account of the battle had been studied by these historians, as many have done with such important battles as Rocroi. The 15,000 casualties claimed in the Gazette had been repeated ad nauseam dozens of times. The Spanish official Aviso of the Battle of Montijo, obviously, has not received the same treatment. And this article, of course, discard the sources that say the opposite of what the main editor means. But what is the problem of trying to hush up the Spanish version?... The answer is that Spanish relations are very full and leave no doubt about who won the battle. The Reencuentro del Montijo en Extremadura confirms that:
Draw your own conclusions. Or give me a more credible relation. ElBufon ( talk) 07:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
So, you're saying that, according to what that spanish document says, the Spanish won the battle... Oh, is that so? Well, I would be astonished if a spanish document said that the Portuguese won a battle whose victory is claimed by both sides. And you justify the spanish victory with a spanish document and by calling anglo-saxon sources a lie? I'm sorry, but that's not enough. As far as I know, I googled a thousand times and only spanish sites said that it was a spanish victory. I've got encyclopedias that say the portuguese won it and even the spanish article about this battle, right here in Wikipedia, says the same.
I'm sure that, through my name, you found out that I'm portuguese. But this is not the reason why I'm arguing on this article. I think that, by using all the information I found, it was a Spanish Strategic Victory and a Military Stalemate, since the Spanish managed to hold their lines against the advancing portuguese army, but still, they didn't forced their retreat. It is as fair as it gets. What we can't have in the "outcome" section is a battle where there are two victors. Unless you want to write "Stalemate". -- Prtgl93 ( talk) 16:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Changed the outcome to "Indecisive: Both sides claim victory" since a wide number of references (that I kept to support the outcome change) tell different tales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prtgl93 ( talk • contribs) 16:15, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 26, 2013, May 26, 2017, May 26, 2019, May 26, 2022, and May 26, 2024. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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In Spain, I've studied this battle as a spanish victory. As you can see, portuguese forces didn't get anything, but a non-catastrophic defeat.-- PayoMalayo 17:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Portugueses did won this battle, as "Matias de Albuquerque" was ranked "conde de Alegrete"(Count of Alegrete). I learned that the Portuguese forces, with great loses, did victoried push back the spanish forces trow the guadiana river
"Evidences", See: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matias_de_Albuquerque and http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalha_do_Montijo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Struta ( talk • contribs) 14:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC).
The Portuguese did indeed win this battle, it was the first major victory against the Spanish in the War of Restoration. I live in the United States, and ever source I've read says that Portugal won. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monikwee ( talk • contribs) 22:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Fisrt of all, I would like to say I'm portuguese. If no one can reach an agreement, I'll write: "Spanish Strategic Victory; Military Stalemate". Since the Spanish managed to hold their lines, stopping the Portuguese from capturing Badajoz, it is then considered a Strategic Victory. YET, they didn't forced the Portuguese to retreat. So, neither side won the battle. It was a stalemate.
Now, refering to what AQUIMISMO says here, casualties don't tell who won or who lost. A battle can be won, even if the victor's casualties are higher than the defeated (See Phyrric victory). Do you want to talk about what the History forgot? History forgot that the Spanish wanted to have the southern part of Portugal, while the French took the Northern part of it. Yeah, that's right. The Spanish were not victims. Actually, the war was just perfect. They could conquer Portugal as they always wanted, with the help of the French. Oh, and by the way, "Guerrilla" isn't a spanish word. The true word comes from the Portuguese, who were the first to use guerrilla warfare against the spanish, because they didn't had enough military manpower to face them in an open field. The real word is "Guerrinha" (Little war, in portuguese). The Spanish heard of it, but since they could't pronounce the two "r's", they said "guerrilla".
Want to know another thing that history forgot? She forgot that, after helping us in the Peninsular War, the British wanted to take the northern part of Portugal. Portuguese, as obvious, refused, and the British replied with military strenght. The outcome? Portuguese crushing victory. Of course it wasn't diplomatically healthy to the Brits for the world to know that a country weakened by a recent war, defeated the military that clamed to be "the best in the world". That's why the relations between Portugal and Britain became so turbulent. Oh, and PayoMalayo, what you learn in Spain... Dear God. That's why some Spanish come saying to everyone, with all their arrogance, that they the Battle of Aljubarrota was just a "skirmish". Trust me , you won't want to know the sort of crap they teach you...
And, by the way, the Portuguese were at war with the Dutch by the time this battle hapenned. Therefore, it is not possible that the Dutch had helped the Portuguese in this battle. I'm changing that too. I'm changing the outcome. Prtgl93-- Prtgl93 ( talk) 00:59, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
About the article, I'm really confused and in need of help. The french, portuguese, and even the spanish wikipedia say that it was a portuguese victory. The majority of the sources I "googled" and even my encyclopedias say that it was a portuguese victory. Unless someone finds some reliable and convincing information that the spanish actually won the battle, I'm changing the outcome again. Prtgl93-- Prtgl93 ( talk) 14:02, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
It's clear that the majority of the anglo-saxon sources attribute the victory to the Portuguese. [1] It seems to me that any Spanish account of the battle had been studied by these historians, as many have done with such important battles as Rocroi. The 15,000 casualties claimed in the Gazette had been repeated ad nauseam dozens of times. The Spanish official Aviso of the Battle of Montijo, obviously, has not received the same treatment. And this article, of course, discard the sources that say the opposite of what the main editor means. But what is the problem of trying to hush up the Spanish version?... The answer is that Spanish relations are very full and leave no doubt about who won the battle. The Reencuentro del Montijo en Extremadura confirms that:
Draw your own conclusions. Or give me a more credible relation. ElBufon ( talk) 07:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
So, you're saying that, according to what that spanish document says, the Spanish won the battle... Oh, is that so? Well, I would be astonished if a spanish document said that the Portuguese won a battle whose victory is claimed by both sides. And you justify the spanish victory with a spanish document and by calling anglo-saxon sources a lie? I'm sorry, but that's not enough. As far as I know, I googled a thousand times and only spanish sites said that it was a spanish victory. I've got encyclopedias that say the portuguese won it and even the spanish article about this battle, right here in Wikipedia, says the same.
I'm sure that, through my name, you found out that I'm portuguese. But this is not the reason why I'm arguing on this article. I think that, by using all the information I found, it was a Spanish Strategic Victory and a Military Stalemate, since the Spanish managed to hold their lines against the advancing portuguese army, but still, they didn't forced their retreat. It is as fair as it gets. What we can't have in the "outcome" section is a battle where there are two victors. Unless you want to write "Stalemate". -- Prtgl93 ( talk) 16:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Changed the outcome to "Indecisive: Both sides claim victory" since a wide number of references (that I kept to support the outcome change) tell different tales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prtgl93 ( talk • contribs) 16:15, 8 January 2011 (UTC)