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Battle of Marinka (2022β2023) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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On 26 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Battle of Marinka (2022β2023) to Battle of Marinka (2022βpresent). The result of the discussion was moved. |
I think the main substance of this article is honestly really low-quality. It's basically all just mindless repetitions of scattered claims by both sides with no context, making for a really lackluster reading experience. Are there really no secondary sources that have summaries of the overall battle, or articles that retrospectively cover phases of it and confirm which claims are true and false?
I think there could be a lot improved here. Pretty much all of the "Ukrainian MOD claimed A, Wagner claimed B, milbloggers claimed C" can and should be removed for being unverifiable, for instance. Would any of these tiny events - ex: repelling a single Russian infantry assault on 30 January - even be notable enough to mention if they were confirmed? I honestly don't think so - and this kind of stuff is basically the entire article.
This is obviously an important and notable battle, with tons of coverage, and that's why the article should make that importance clearer, with more of a big-picture view. I'll try to fix these issues myself if I have time, but I generally don't make that many edits regarding war pages nowadays, so it would be great if other editors more familiar with this specific battle take an active role in improving the article too. HappyWith ( talk) 20:45, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
What are you waiting for? We have multiple geolocated proof of russian forces being in control of the whole town. You are waiting for oFfIcIaL cOnFiRmAtIoN?! What does that even mean!? We have literal material proof. Of course ukrainians are never going to admit they lost. Isn't the point of Wikipedia to be objective. This is war, you can't assume that one side is completely genuine in it's statements and the other side is the ultimate evil. If you wait for ukrainians to admit they lost then you will wait for another year. Because of admin's political views this article is no longer factually correct and people in the future will read false information from this website ΠΠΈΡΠΎΡΡΠΊΠΎ-ΠΈΡΡΠΎΡΠ½ΠΎΠΏΡΠΈΡΡΠΊΠΈ ΠΊΠΎΠΌΠΎΠ½Π²Π΅Π»Ρ ( talk) 11:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
"The commander-in-chief [Zaluzhny] added that Ukrainian troops are still in the northern part of the city [Mariinka] as of today, 26 December 2023."
Sources are widely implying that 25 December was the date the city was captured, but that's only the date that the Russian MoD announced the full capture. In other words, it was when the "dust settled". The last fighting probably took place a bit before. We need to research for when those videos of the final clashes were recorded. It seems 24 December is the true date considering those earliest tweets. Hope the upcoming ISW report sheds some light into this. Otherwise, we'll still need to do some more digging of RS. Alexis Coutinho ( talk) 20:31, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Info on the battle-wide casualties are completely missing, with zero summary information in the body on even if it's been a particularly bloody battle. This should be added in, especially now that we have a pretty-well-established start and end date to work with. HappyWith ( talk) 20:54, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1739663824196686068
136.143.211.2 ( talk) 21:20, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Battle of Marinka (2022β2023) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:Β Google ( booksΒ Β· newsΒ Β· scholarΒ Β· free imagesΒ Β· WPΒ refs)Β Β· FENSΒ Β· JSTORΒ Β· TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 30Β daysΒ |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 26 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Battle of Marinka (2022β2023) to Battle of Marinka (2022βpresent). The result of the discussion was moved. |
I think the main substance of this article is honestly really low-quality. It's basically all just mindless repetitions of scattered claims by both sides with no context, making for a really lackluster reading experience. Are there really no secondary sources that have summaries of the overall battle, or articles that retrospectively cover phases of it and confirm which claims are true and false?
I think there could be a lot improved here. Pretty much all of the "Ukrainian MOD claimed A, Wagner claimed B, milbloggers claimed C" can and should be removed for being unverifiable, for instance. Would any of these tiny events - ex: repelling a single Russian infantry assault on 30 January - even be notable enough to mention if they were confirmed? I honestly don't think so - and this kind of stuff is basically the entire article.
This is obviously an important and notable battle, with tons of coverage, and that's why the article should make that importance clearer, with more of a big-picture view. I'll try to fix these issues myself if I have time, but I generally don't make that many edits regarding war pages nowadays, so it would be great if other editors more familiar with this specific battle take an active role in improving the article too. HappyWith ( talk) 20:45, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
What are you waiting for? We have multiple geolocated proof of russian forces being in control of the whole town. You are waiting for oFfIcIaL cOnFiRmAtIoN?! What does that even mean!? We have literal material proof. Of course ukrainians are never going to admit they lost. Isn't the point of Wikipedia to be objective. This is war, you can't assume that one side is completely genuine in it's statements and the other side is the ultimate evil. If you wait for ukrainians to admit they lost then you will wait for another year. Because of admin's political views this article is no longer factually correct and people in the future will read false information from this website ΠΠΈΡΠΎΡΡΠΊΠΎ-ΠΈΡΡΠΎΡΠ½ΠΎΠΏΡΠΈΡΡΠΊΠΈ ΠΊΠΎΠΌΠΎΠ½Π²Π΅Π»Ρ ( talk) 11:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
"The commander-in-chief [Zaluzhny] added that Ukrainian troops are still in the northern part of the city [Mariinka] as of today, 26 December 2023."
Sources are widely implying that 25 December was the date the city was captured, but that's only the date that the Russian MoD announced the full capture. In other words, it was when the "dust settled". The last fighting probably took place a bit before. We need to research for when those videos of the final clashes were recorded. It seems 24 December is the true date considering those earliest tweets. Hope the upcoming ISW report sheds some light into this. Otherwise, we'll still need to do some more digging of RS. Alexis Coutinho ( talk) 20:31, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Info on the battle-wide casualties are completely missing, with zero summary information in the body on even if it's been a particularly bloody battle. This should be added in, especially now that we have a pretty-well-established start and end date to work with. HappyWith ( talk) 20:54, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1739663824196686068
136.143.211.2 ( talk) 21:20, 26 December 2023 (UTC)