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![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 10, 2004, September 10, 2005, September 10, 2006, September 10, 2007, September 10, 2011, and September 10, 2013. |
What happend next?
The article says "successful invasion of Canada". I think this needs to be clarified. Canada as in British North America, or in reference to the Canadas - Quebec had been divided into Upper Canada (now Ontario) and Lower Canada (now Quebec)? They were successful on the western frontier of Upper Canada - where American successes on Lake Erie and victory at the Battle of the Thames gave them effective control of that part of Upper Canada. The British held onto Lake Ontario and the passage to the St. Lawrence, despite losses, and the Americans' progress was halted by British success at the Battle of Crysler's Farm.
SCrews 15:58, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
"...sometimes referred to as the Battle of Put-in Bay." Who refers to the battle this way? I've never heard it called anything other than the Battle of Lake Erie.... Susan Davis 03:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)I must leave it to someone with better formatting skills to remedy the silly tables listed under, now that I've fixed that much, "Vessels Involved". "USS" stands for "United States Ship", of which there were none on Lake Erie. The Niagara and Lawrence were brigs, so their designation, as indicated in Perry's dispatches, was "US Brig Niagara" etc. Ditto the schooners. This looks rather unimpressive. Czrisher 21:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
"[T]he Detroit...was the best built ship on the Lake." This is quite a claim. Do we have at least explication of it, if not citation? Czrisher 21:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
This seems to be the subject of a growing edit war. I believe that the classification of the British vessels involved should go by rig, as described by Perry, rather than any arbitrary classification system.
The Little Belt for example, was described as a sloop she was sloop-rigged i.e carried both fore-and-aft and square sails on a single mast, and not as a sloop-of-war, a much larger class of vessel. Detroit, which might have been classed as a sloop of war, was ship-rigged, i.e. a three-masted square-rigged vessel, and was described as such throughout by Barclay. The term "corvette" was not official in the Royal Navy, and not used by any contemporary source or subsequent history of the Battle.
Finally, it is inconsistent to describe the U.S. vessels using one classification system and the British by another. HLGallon ( talk) 14:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Though it wasn't a term yet used by the Royal Navy, the term Corvette was floating around during the Napoleonic Wars. Whether it wasn't yet officially used, the ship "was" a corvette. Also, the other ship was actually a sloop, a term which was used by the navy. ( 82.28.237.200 ( talk) 21:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC))
No no, the Queen Charlotte WAS a sloop, and the Detroit WAS a Corvette, though not termed by the Royal Navy. In my opinion, anything that floats is technically a ship or a boat, and also in my opinion, when someone sees the word "ship", they immediately relate to something like a frigate, or larger. Since "Wikipedia is not a propaganda site", I think it would be fair and justified to term them as a corvette and sloop, as the Queen Charlotte was a sloop, the term "sloop" was used, so there is no worming out of that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.237.200 ( talk) 21:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
No wonder. She was a ship-rigged sloop and ship, as our American friends clearly intend, implies a much more powerful vessel. I don't know why we couldn't call her a ship sloop and the other vessel a corvette, given that that is what she was. Grace Note ( talk) 06:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Discussions about The Battle of Lake Erie (Put-in-Bay) are being held at the peer review page. Thank you, Comte0 ( talk) 13:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
In the paragraph for 1812, mention is made of the Brig USS Adams, which was pinned down at Sandwich, Ontario on the Detroit River and was not ready for action. Upon clicking on the ship's name you are re-directed to another USS Adams (a frigate) that was launched at New York City 8 June 1799, never sailed on Lake Erie because she saw duty on the eastern seaboard of the USA, also in the British Isles, and was scuttled and burned in 1814 on the Penobscot River at Hampden, Maine.
Clarification is needed to ascertain if the US had two naval vessels bearing the name Adams during the War of 1812. Musicwriter ( talk) 03:51, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
I am getting rid of that link. I'm not willing to add an entry fot the correct Adams, but there is already an entry for the correct ship under HMS Detroit 1812. So I will get rid of the ling to Adams, and add one for the Detroit. This is not optimal, but is a minimum fix that might attract someone who knows what they are doing to handle this per Wikipedia policy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WrongAdams ( talk • contribs) 03:56, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
Roosevelt, table "BARCLAY'S SQUADRON" page 261, classifies Lady Provost as a schooner. DANFS (follow the link) classifies her as a schooner, making Wikipedia call her a schooner. Brit naval historian William James, Vol VI, page 112, calls her a schooner. It would appear that Lady Provost was a schooner. The upshot is that Perry's missives are in error. Altoff (Oliver Hazard Perry and the Battle of Lake Erie (1999)) remarks on this in endnote 129: "Perry's message was inaccurate. The British squadron was actually composed of two ships, one brig, two schooners, and one sloop."
I propose we align the order of battle (2x) with the primary historians of each side, Roosevelt and James, and footnote Perry's reports, as Altoff did. JMOprof ( talk) 15:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Given the destruction of the British Lake Erie fleet and the subsequent US command of the Upper Great Lakes not to mention the effect that had on the ground war in southwestern Ontario, I don't see how it could be seen as anything other than a decisive US victory (this from a Canadian, BTW) Natty10000 | Natter 04:30, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Some simple research should be done before changing. I am concerned this kind of attention (research) is not being made before edits to others articles of this nature that change the tone of/ or POV of a battle. this many changes is such a short period lead me to believe no research was done - nor were the article read for there content on the topic at hand. I see the changes are being reverted by a few different editors now Moxy ( talk) 20:23, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Immediately following this decisive victory at the Battle of Lake Erie, in his report to General William Henry Harrison
Navy Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry's decisive victory over a British squadron on Lake Erie, September 10, 1813
Had either American brig not made it over the bar the battle of Lake Erie, a decisive victory for Perry
at the decisive victory in the Battle of Lake Erie on September 10, 1813.
Hailed for his decisive victory over a Royal Navy squadron on Lake Erie in September 1813
fight a decisive naval battle on Lake Erie that summer, for Perry was more aggressive than Chauncey
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"Although Perry won the battle on Niagara, he received the British surrender on the deck of the recaptured Lawrence to allow the British to see the terrible price his men had paid."
I can think of other reasons why Perry might have made the British surrender aboard the Lawrence. Possibly just going back at least ceremonially to what he considered to be his "real" flagship, or possibly because he felt that for all its sacrifice the ship deserved that honor, or perhaps just to remind the British that their short lived victory over the Lawrence had been undone and that Perry could act as if that had never even happened. If it really was about showing the British what price Americans paid for their victory, it would probably have been more about forcing than allowing.
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 10, 2004, September 10, 2005, September 10, 2006, September 10, 2007, September 10, 2011, and September 10, 2013. |
What happend next?
The article says "successful invasion of Canada". I think this needs to be clarified. Canada as in British North America, or in reference to the Canadas - Quebec had been divided into Upper Canada (now Ontario) and Lower Canada (now Quebec)? They were successful on the western frontier of Upper Canada - where American successes on Lake Erie and victory at the Battle of the Thames gave them effective control of that part of Upper Canada. The British held onto Lake Ontario and the passage to the St. Lawrence, despite losses, and the Americans' progress was halted by British success at the Battle of Crysler's Farm.
SCrews 15:58, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
"...sometimes referred to as the Battle of Put-in Bay." Who refers to the battle this way? I've never heard it called anything other than the Battle of Lake Erie.... Susan Davis 03:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)I must leave it to someone with better formatting skills to remedy the silly tables listed under, now that I've fixed that much, "Vessels Involved". "USS" stands for "United States Ship", of which there were none on Lake Erie. The Niagara and Lawrence were brigs, so their designation, as indicated in Perry's dispatches, was "US Brig Niagara" etc. Ditto the schooners. This looks rather unimpressive. Czrisher 21:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
"[T]he Detroit...was the best built ship on the Lake." This is quite a claim. Do we have at least explication of it, if not citation? Czrisher 21:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
This seems to be the subject of a growing edit war. I believe that the classification of the British vessels involved should go by rig, as described by Perry, rather than any arbitrary classification system.
The Little Belt for example, was described as a sloop she was sloop-rigged i.e carried both fore-and-aft and square sails on a single mast, and not as a sloop-of-war, a much larger class of vessel. Detroit, which might have been classed as a sloop of war, was ship-rigged, i.e. a three-masted square-rigged vessel, and was described as such throughout by Barclay. The term "corvette" was not official in the Royal Navy, and not used by any contemporary source or subsequent history of the Battle.
Finally, it is inconsistent to describe the U.S. vessels using one classification system and the British by another. HLGallon ( talk) 14:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Though it wasn't a term yet used by the Royal Navy, the term Corvette was floating around during the Napoleonic Wars. Whether it wasn't yet officially used, the ship "was" a corvette. Also, the other ship was actually a sloop, a term which was used by the navy. ( 82.28.237.200 ( talk) 21:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC))
No no, the Queen Charlotte WAS a sloop, and the Detroit WAS a Corvette, though not termed by the Royal Navy. In my opinion, anything that floats is technically a ship or a boat, and also in my opinion, when someone sees the word "ship", they immediately relate to something like a frigate, or larger. Since "Wikipedia is not a propaganda site", I think it would be fair and justified to term them as a corvette and sloop, as the Queen Charlotte was a sloop, the term "sloop" was used, so there is no worming out of that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.237.200 ( talk) 21:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
No wonder. She was a ship-rigged sloop and ship, as our American friends clearly intend, implies a much more powerful vessel. I don't know why we couldn't call her a ship sloop and the other vessel a corvette, given that that is what she was. Grace Note ( talk) 06:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Discussions about The Battle of Lake Erie (Put-in-Bay) are being held at the peer review page. Thank you, Comte0 ( talk) 13:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
In the paragraph for 1812, mention is made of the Brig USS Adams, which was pinned down at Sandwich, Ontario on the Detroit River and was not ready for action. Upon clicking on the ship's name you are re-directed to another USS Adams (a frigate) that was launched at New York City 8 June 1799, never sailed on Lake Erie because she saw duty on the eastern seaboard of the USA, also in the British Isles, and was scuttled and burned in 1814 on the Penobscot River at Hampden, Maine.
Clarification is needed to ascertain if the US had two naval vessels bearing the name Adams during the War of 1812. Musicwriter ( talk) 03:51, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
I am getting rid of that link. I'm not willing to add an entry fot the correct Adams, but there is already an entry for the correct ship under HMS Detroit 1812. So I will get rid of the ling to Adams, and add one for the Detroit. This is not optimal, but is a minimum fix that might attract someone who knows what they are doing to handle this per Wikipedia policy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WrongAdams ( talk • contribs) 03:56, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
Roosevelt, table "BARCLAY'S SQUADRON" page 261, classifies Lady Provost as a schooner. DANFS (follow the link) classifies her as a schooner, making Wikipedia call her a schooner. Brit naval historian William James, Vol VI, page 112, calls her a schooner. It would appear that Lady Provost was a schooner. The upshot is that Perry's missives are in error. Altoff (Oliver Hazard Perry and the Battle of Lake Erie (1999)) remarks on this in endnote 129: "Perry's message was inaccurate. The British squadron was actually composed of two ships, one brig, two schooners, and one sloop."
I propose we align the order of battle (2x) with the primary historians of each side, Roosevelt and James, and footnote Perry's reports, as Altoff did. JMOprof ( talk) 15:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Given the destruction of the British Lake Erie fleet and the subsequent US command of the Upper Great Lakes not to mention the effect that had on the ground war in southwestern Ontario, I don't see how it could be seen as anything other than a decisive US victory (this from a Canadian, BTW) Natty10000 | Natter 04:30, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Some simple research should be done before changing. I am concerned this kind of attention (research) is not being made before edits to others articles of this nature that change the tone of/ or POV of a battle. this many changes is such a short period lead me to believe no research was done - nor were the article read for there content on the topic at hand. I see the changes are being reverted by a few different editors now Moxy ( talk) 20:23, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Immediately following this decisive victory at the Battle of Lake Erie, in his report to General William Henry Harrison
Navy Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry's decisive victory over a British squadron on Lake Erie, September 10, 1813
Had either American brig not made it over the bar the battle of Lake Erie, a decisive victory for Perry
at the decisive victory in the Battle of Lake Erie on September 10, 1813.
Hailed for his decisive victory over a Royal Navy squadron on Lake Erie in September 1813
fight a decisive naval battle on Lake Erie that summer, for Perry was more aggressive than Chauncey
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"Although Perry won the battle on Niagara, he received the British surrender on the deck of the recaptured Lawrence to allow the British to see the terrible price his men had paid."
I can think of other reasons why Perry might have made the British surrender aboard the Lawrence. Possibly just going back at least ceremonially to what he considered to be his "real" flagship, or possibly because he felt that for all its sacrifice the ship deserved that honor, or perhaps just to remind the British that their short lived victory over the Lawrence had been undone and that Perry could act as if that had never even happened. If it really was about showing the British what price Americans paid for their victory, it would probably have been more about forcing than allowing.