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![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
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Did you know?" column on
November 19, 2014. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the 1914
Battle of Kolubara ended with a
decisive Serbian victory after a month of bloodshed? | |||||||||
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on November 16, 2023. |
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A fine article, but you should mention the timely arrival of French artillery ammunition (75mm shells) and frentic attempts to shorten theese shells in time for the counterattack. This was done in Kragujevac war factory. The shells were 2mm too long (by some mistake) for Serbian guns. I think this was also an important factor in this victory.
Veljko Stevanovich —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.137.119.18 ( talk • contribs) 2005-09-30T17:29:08
Please do not roll back other peoples edits to correct ip vandals, just revert their specific changes. LeadSongDog ( talk) 21:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
The article contains de Neutrality Disputed Tag, but the Talk page does not show specific reasons for it. Please note NPOV Dispute policy, which strongly discourages driving-by tagging and recommends the disputes to be discussed on the talk page, pointing to specific issues. Since no such discussion is shown, I think it is fair to remove the tag. M.Campos ( talk) 01:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I did not intended to be offensive with "driving by tagging".
You are pointing at one major problem: the information are not sourced.
I propose the following proceedure, which I believe matches fully the WP policies: if you have factual errors to point out, you may chalenge the information. The bourden of proof lays on whom placed the statement, and if no credible source is stated, you may remove the chalenged point.
If you believe the problem are not factual errors, but the bias lays in emphasis given to specific points, or in language used (as often happens in controvertial articles), you are welcome to rewrite the text and present it here on talk page for discussion.
I am afraid the line by line approach is the only way to have the article improved. Tagging is a kind of last resource when an agreement cannot be achieved, and is higly unsatisfactory to the reader. If there is no discussion about in the talk page, he does not even have the opportunity to understand which are the disputed points. The whole text, even the parts that are correct stay under suspicion, being almost useless. 201.82.253.148 ( talk) 13:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, if You don't know anything about this battle, how can You say it is POV? Yes, I'm a Serb, but I don't see what it is POV. However, it does require reliable sources. I have a book in Serbian about Serbian campaign in WWI, but it probably won't help. -- Bojan 20:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
OK. I think you should place citation tags where they are necessary, then I will add the sources. OK? -- Bojan 07:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
After the Battle of Cer, the Serbian army retreated to the right bank of the Kolubara river.
We should expand this part of the article. After Battle of Cer, under pressure of Allies, inferior Serbian army crossed Sava river and underwent Srem operation. Serbs conquered Zemun, but final outcome of Srem operation was Serbian retreat. Then, Austrian and Serbian forces waged indecisive Battle of Mačkov kamen. In September 1914. Serbian and Montenegrin army attacked Bosnia and entered in Srebrenica, Han Pijesak, Glasinac. Montenegrin army even came near Sarajevo, but in October 1914. Austrians repeled both Serbian and Monenegrin armies back into their countries. From this point Battle of Kolubara begins. -- Bojan 18:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I know. Sources for this is book of Nikola B. Popović: Srbi u Prvom svetskom ratu 1914-1918 (Serbs in the First World War 1914-1918). Also, a Slovene website also mention Srem operation (Sremska operacija): Sremska operacija (september) – neuspešen napad srbskih sil preko Save - Srem operation - (september) - unsuccessful offensive of Serbian army across Sava -- Bojan 04:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
LeadSongDog ( talk) 05:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. -- Bojan 05:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
But what is not yet resolved? I think {{ sources}} is sufficient -- Bojan 19:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
At least this will reduce the difficulty in testing assertions. LeadSongDog ( talk) 19:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
It would be hard work, but I'll try. -- Bojan 20:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
m8, we(he) don't have any reason to question those books, as biased as that may sound... frankly, i've never encountered any(and i realy mean - ANY) source depicting this battle differently... i understand your concerns, but i don't beleive there's any need for it... first of all, i doubt that bokicak would cite any speculable book written in serbia, secondly, you're the one that's opposing the written history in serbian sources... wouldn't/shouldn't you be the one searching for sources of "the other side" or neutral ones(british, french, etc)? take care. -- PrimEviL 21:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
It appears that sr:Колубарска_битка was the first wiki article on this topic, then it was copied and extended elsewhere. Unfortunately the oldest content there seems to have copyvios from this source (The Serbian royal family website) that it didn't cite. LeadSongDog ( talk) 20:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
The Austrian commander Nicolas von Krìszèw is a hoax. Therefor, I undid the edit of 10 March 2008 diff
See also: it:Wikipedia:Pagine da cancellare/Nicolas von Krìszèw (in Italian) -- MaEr ( talk) 13:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
They are wrong! Austro-Hungarians lost that number of soldiers (KIA+WIA+MIA+POW) IN THE WHOLE 1914. which means they include losses at Battle of Cer, and Battle of Drina, the latter being a battle of similar size, or even biger than this battle, but less known in Serbia as it ended in a draw (it encompasses all the actions after Cer that Bojan mentioned and more). And the number is from a Serbian source (Savo Skoko and Petar Opačić: Vojvoda Stepa Stepanović) that allegedly used an Austro-Hungarian source (Lezter Krieg by a group of Austrian authors) for their casualties (on the other hand, British historian Cyrill Falls puts them at ~ 215.000 for the whole year, but it is unclear where he got the number). In the whole 1914 the Serbs lost ~ 170.000 soldiers (all sources agree on this). As for the Serbian casualties in the battlebox I really dont know how this number was compiled —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.74.161.222 ( talk) 13:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
This needs to be updated correctly. This is a picture of Otoman army or similar. It should be replaced with photo of serbian infantry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.110.227.84 ( talk) 22:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
The caption for the map is using an old web link for the map. the relevant link today seems to be https://www.westpoint.edu/sites/default/files/inline-images/academics/academic_departments/history/WWI/WWOne32.pdf MadScot ( talk) 03:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Most WW1 Wikipedia Battles contain the coordinates of where it occurred. I would like it if it were included. Edit: I see where it occured: 44° 16′ 0″ N, 19° 53′ 0″ E 73.189.177.222 ( talk) 02:58, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Battle of Kolubara article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Battle of Kolubara has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
November 19, 2014. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the 1914
Battle of Kolubara ended with a
decisive Serbian victory after a month of bloodshed? | |||||||||
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on November 16, 2023. |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fine article, but you should mention the timely arrival of French artillery ammunition (75mm shells) and frentic attempts to shorten theese shells in time for the counterattack. This was done in Kragujevac war factory. The shells were 2mm too long (by some mistake) for Serbian guns. I think this was also an important factor in this victory.
Veljko Stevanovich —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.137.119.18 ( talk • contribs) 2005-09-30T17:29:08
Please do not roll back other peoples edits to correct ip vandals, just revert their specific changes. LeadSongDog ( talk) 21:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
The article contains de Neutrality Disputed Tag, but the Talk page does not show specific reasons for it. Please note NPOV Dispute policy, which strongly discourages driving-by tagging and recommends the disputes to be discussed on the talk page, pointing to specific issues. Since no such discussion is shown, I think it is fair to remove the tag. M.Campos ( talk) 01:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I did not intended to be offensive with "driving by tagging".
You are pointing at one major problem: the information are not sourced.
I propose the following proceedure, which I believe matches fully the WP policies: if you have factual errors to point out, you may chalenge the information. The bourden of proof lays on whom placed the statement, and if no credible source is stated, you may remove the chalenged point.
If you believe the problem are not factual errors, but the bias lays in emphasis given to specific points, or in language used (as often happens in controvertial articles), you are welcome to rewrite the text and present it here on talk page for discussion.
I am afraid the line by line approach is the only way to have the article improved. Tagging is a kind of last resource when an agreement cannot be achieved, and is higly unsatisfactory to the reader. If there is no discussion about in the talk page, he does not even have the opportunity to understand which are the disputed points. The whole text, even the parts that are correct stay under suspicion, being almost useless. 201.82.253.148 ( talk) 13:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, if You don't know anything about this battle, how can You say it is POV? Yes, I'm a Serb, but I don't see what it is POV. However, it does require reliable sources. I have a book in Serbian about Serbian campaign in WWI, but it probably won't help. -- Bojan 20:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
OK. I think you should place citation tags where they are necessary, then I will add the sources. OK? -- Bojan 07:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
After the Battle of Cer, the Serbian army retreated to the right bank of the Kolubara river.
We should expand this part of the article. After Battle of Cer, under pressure of Allies, inferior Serbian army crossed Sava river and underwent Srem operation. Serbs conquered Zemun, but final outcome of Srem operation was Serbian retreat. Then, Austrian and Serbian forces waged indecisive Battle of Mačkov kamen. In September 1914. Serbian and Montenegrin army attacked Bosnia and entered in Srebrenica, Han Pijesak, Glasinac. Montenegrin army even came near Sarajevo, but in October 1914. Austrians repeled both Serbian and Monenegrin armies back into their countries. From this point Battle of Kolubara begins. -- Bojan 18:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I know. Sources for this is book of Nikola B. Popović: Srbi u Prvom svetskom ratu 1914-1918 (Serbs in the First World War 1914-1918). Also, a Slovene website also mention Srem operation (Sremska operacija): Sremska operacija (september) – neuspešen napad srbskih sil preko Save - Srem operation - (september) - unsuccessful offensive of Serbian army across Sava -- Bojan 04:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
LeadSongDog ( talk) 05:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. -- Bojan 05:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
But what is not yet resolved? I think {{ sources}} is sufficient -- Bojan 19:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
At least this will reduce the difficulty in testing assertions. LeadSongDog ( talk) 19:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
It would be hard work, but I'll try. -- Bojan 20:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
m8, we(he) don't have any reason to question those books, as biased as that may sound... frankly, i've never encountered any(and i realy mean - ANY) source depicting this battle differently... i understand your concerns, but i don't beleive there's any need for it... first of all, i doubt that bokicak would cite any speculable book written in serbia, secondly, you're the one that's opposing the written history in serbian sources... wouldn't/shouldn't you be the one searching for sources of "the other side" or neutral ones(british, french, etc)? take care. -- PrimEviL 21:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
It appears that sr:Колубарска_битка was the first wiki article on this topic, then it was copied and extended elsewhere. Unfortunately the oldest content there seems to have copyvios from this source (The Serbian royal family website) that it didn't cite. LeadSongDog ( talk) 20:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
The Austrian commander Nicolas von Krìszèw is a hoax. Therefor, I undid the edit of 10 March 2008 diff
See also: it:Wikipedia:Pagine da cancellare/Nicolas von Krìszèw (in Italian) -- MaEr ( talk) 13:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
They are wrong! Austro-Hungarians lost that number of soldiers (KIA+WIA+MIA+POW) IN THE WHOLE 1914. which means they include losses at Battle of Cer, and Battle of Drina, the latter being a battle of similar size, or even biger than this battle, but less known in Serbia as it ended in a draw (it encompasses all the actions after Cer that Bojan mentioned and more). And the number is from a Serbian source (Savo Skoko and Petar Opačić: Vojvoda Stepa Stepanović) that allegedly used an Austro-Hungarian source (Lezter Krieg by a group of Austrian authors) for their casualties (on the other hand, British historian Cyrill Falls puts them at ~ 215.000 for the whole year, but it is unclear where he got the number). In the whole 1914 the Serbs lost ~ 170.000 soldiers (all sources agree on this). As for the Serbian casualties in the battlebox I really dont know how this number was compiled —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.74.161.222 ( talk) 13:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
This needs to be updated correctly. This is a picture of Otoman army or similar. It should be replaced with photo of serbian infantry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.110.227.84 ( talk) 22:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
The caption for the map is using an old web link for the map. the relevant link today seems to be https://www.westpoint.edu/sites/default/files/inline-images/academics/academic_departments/history/WWI/WWOne32.pdf MadScot ( talk) 03:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Most WW1 Wikipedia Battles contain the coordinates of where it occurred. I would like it if it were included. Edit: I see where it occured: 44° 16′ 0″ N, 19° 53′ 0″ E 73.189.177.222 ( talk) 02:58, 8 January 2023 (UTC)