![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
When a name has been transcribed from a Western language to Russian, one cannot transcribe once more to obtain the name in the Latin alphabet. Transcription is not a one-to-one mapping, and therefore the name will often be almost unrecognizable after such a process. This has happened in this case. The original Swedish name Hangöudd was first transcribed to Russian Гангут. So far, everything is OK. To transcribe this once more to Gangut is wrong. Gangut is not a name to be found on any Western map. The correct thing to do is of course to use the name from which the Russian transcription was originally formed. Hence, the name of the battle should be "Battle of Hangöudd" or "Battle of Hankoniemi". The choice depends on which form is most appropriate, the historic Swedish form or the modern Finnish form of the name. The place lies in a region in which the majority language traditionally has been Swedish. This is still the case in the community where the battle took place, but in Hanko (Hangö) the majority language has been Finnish since ab. 1900. This page should be moved to a new page with one of the names suggested above. Aavat ( talk) 19:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Please note that Finnish sea chart TODAY says Suomi:Hankoniemi and Swedish: Hangö udd. Kosterboat ( talk) 13:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Just reading this and noticed that Russians have elevated Elefanten into a frigate which as far as i know Pram is not, Finnish wiki lists Elefanten as three masted schooner and one another source as gun barge (possible referance to Pram's flat bottom). Far cry from even the lowest class of frigates. And same information seems to be in the 'results' box of the battle as well. Also only Swedish wiki seems to be listing any losses for the Russians even though they were known to lose some ships.
Also noticed that Russian wiki included the whole Swedish squadron of the coast of Hanko into the battle though these didn't take any part into the battle. As well as telling that Russian fleet fought against numerically superior enemy while attacking 1 ship, 6 galleys and 4 skerry-boats with 99 galleys. Given that Swedish detachment had roughly 1000 men and Russian galley fleet roughly 13 000 - 14 000 men the difference in manpower was heavily in favor of Russians. All this seems to me to be rather misleading, of course I understand that this was the first real naval victory for the Russia but it shouldn't really affect the facts. That is the differences between the pages were rather surprising (I don't read Russian so if the translating program failed then please ignore the criticism). - 80.220.36.118 ( talk) 14:57, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
English Wiki lists the Russian losses as 125 dead and 341 wounded and mentions no loss of Russian ships. Swedish Wiki lists the Russian losses as c. 55 galleys and 3000 men. Considering that the Russians mounted three attacks with 35, 80 and finally 95 galleys and that the first two were beaten back, the losses quoted by English Wiki seem rather light. Galleys had large crews (by English Wiki's figures some 150 per ship), so the quoted Russian casualties would be roughly equivalent to the crews of 3 galleys. That would have been less than 9% of the Russian vessels in the FIRST attack, so why didn't it succeed? I would think there are better sources on this battle available than the ones quoted.-- Death Bredon ( talk) 10:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Excuse me, Wikiirussocyrillicanunses, but WHERE is the Finnish lagnuage TRUE ALPHABETIC TRANSLATION FOR THIS:
Riilahden taistelu
Since the Finnish is merely tranliterated, then it would be unfair for the Russian/Cyrillic to be featured, wouldn't it???
Therefore, out with the Wikiirussocyrillicanal translation, which is an affront in any English language text.
NCDane ( talk) 22:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
PS: A transliteration in Roman Alphabet of the Russian woud be fine NCDane ( talk) 22:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
PPS I am dleting sction on the name of the battle altogether, because it is founded upon this completely and entirely false and wrong and absurd premise:
Transliteration of Russian forms of Western names is not common practice, except for bibliographical purposes.
Tranliteration IS common practice in my TWO Enclyclodeia Brittanica editions, and in all other English language Encyclopedia that I have ever seen, and I have seen a LOT of them.
It is most true, accurate and correct to say that in English language ENCYCLOPEDIC PRACTICE TRANSILTERATION is the ONLY accepted norm, outside the minds of a few witless Wikipedia policymakers , who violate all principle of untility by this RIDICULOUS affectation of theirs. NCDane ( talk) 22:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Battle of Gangut. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:25, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Battle of Gangut. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:01, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
When a name has been transcribed from a Western language to Russian, one cannot transcribe once more to obtain the name in the Latin alphabet. Transcription is not a one-to-one mapping, and therefore the name will often be almost unrecognizable after such a process. This has happened in this case. The original Swedish name Hangöudd was first transcribed to Russian Гангут. So far, everything is OK. To transcribe this once more to Gangut is wrong. Gangut is not a name to be found on any Western map. The correct thing to do is of course to use the name from which the Russian transcription was originally formed. Hence, the name of the battle should be "Battle of Hangöudd" or "Battle of Hankoniemi". The choice depends on which form is most appropriate, the historic Swedish form or the modern Finnish form of the name. The place lies in a region in which the majority language traditionally has been Swedish. This is still the case in the community where the battle took place, but in Hanko (Hangö) the majority language has been Finnish since ab. 1900. This page should be moved to a new page with one of the names suggested above. Aavat ( talk) 19:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Please note that Finnish sea chart TODAY says Suomi:Hankoniemi and Swedish: Hangö udd. Kosterboat ( talk) 13:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Just reading this and noticed that Russians have elevated Elefanten into a frigate which as far as i know Pram is not, Finnish wiki lists Elefanten as three masted schooner and one another source as gun barge (possible referance to Pram's flat bottom). Far cry from even the lowest class of frigates. And same information seems to be in the 'results' box of the battle as well. Also only Swedish wiki seems to be listing any losses for the Russians even though they were known to lose some ships.
Also noticed that Russian wiki included the whole Swedish squadron of the coast of Hanko into the battle though these didn't take any part into the battle. As well as telling that Russian fleet fought against numerically superior enemy while attacking 1 ship, 6 galleys and 4 skerry-boats with 99 galleys. Given that Swedish detachment had roughly 1000 men and Russian galley fleet roughly 13 000 - 14 000 men the difference in manpower was heavily in favor of Russians. All this seems to me to be rather misleading, of course I understand that this was the first real naval victory for the Russia but it shouldn't really affect the facts. That is the differences between the pages were rather surprising (I don't read Russian so if the translating program failed then please ignore the criticism). - 80.220.36.118 ( talk) 14:57, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
English Wiki lists the Russian losses as 125 dead and 341 wounded and mentions no loss of Russian ships. Swedish Wiki lists the Russian losses as c. 55 galleys and 3000 men. Considering that the Russians mounted three attacks with 35, 80 and finally 95 galleys and that the first two were beaten back, the losses quoted by English Wiki seem rather light. Galleys had large crews (by English Wiki's figures some 150 per ship), so the quoted Russian casualties would be roughly equivalent to the crews of 3 galleys. That would have been less than 9% of the Russian vessels in the FIRST attack, so why didn't it succeed? I would think there are better sources on this battle available than the ones quoted.-- Death Bredon ( talk) 10:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Excuse me, Wikiirussocyrillicanunses, but WHERE is the Finnish lagnuage TRUE ALPHABETIC TRANSLATION FOR THIS:
Riilahden taistelu
Since the Finnish is merely tranliterated, then it would be unfair for the Russian/Cyrillic to be featured, wouldn't it???
Therefore, out with the Wikiirussocyrillicanal translation, which is an affront in any English language text.
NCDane ( talk) 22:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
PS: A transliteration in Roman Alphabet of the Russian woud be fine NCDane ( talk) 22:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
PPS I am dleting sction on the name of the battle altogether, because it is founded upon this completely and entirely false and wrong and absurd premise:
Transliteration of Russian forms of Western names is not common practice, except for bibliographical purposes.
Tranliteration IS common practice in my TWO Enclyclodeia Brittanica editions, and in all other English language Encyclopedia that I have ever seen, and I have seen a LOT of them.
It is most true, accurate and correct to say that in English language ENCYCLOPEDIC PRACTICE TRANSILTERATION is the ONLY accepted norm, outside the minds of a few witless Wikipedia policymakers , who violate all principle of untility by this RIDICULOUS affectation of theirs. NCDane ( talk) 22:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Battle of Gangut. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:25, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Battle of Gangut. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:01, 5 December 2017 (UTC)