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I don't think this counts as a "pyrrhic victory", just a victory with relatively heavy casualties. I think the rule of thumb is over 30% casualties and with long-term effects. So, I'll remove the word "pyrrhic" from the article until someone complains. -- 71.172.37.93 ( talk) 05:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I have changed the battalion participating in Operation Greeley. I was RTO for C Company 2/503 and was with the unit when it went to the rescue of Alpha Company and the Company Commander and Company Platoon leaders were disciplined. I am my own reference. But have the members of my Company to verify this correction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RTOWayne ( talk • contribs) 23:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
The information below was taken from the following link: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1964/25405/
"Mike was assigned to the 173d Airborne Brigade in the Central Highlands, where a series of border battles with the North Vietnamese Army was being fought. In October 1967 he assumed command of Company A, Second Battalion, 503d Infantry, a unit of veteran infantrymen, which was involved in some of the most vicious combat of the Vietnam War. In a short period of time, Mike was to earn four Silver Stars, the first one being for personally going outside the perimeter, under intense enemy fire, to rescue one of his wounded soldiers. He led by personal example and professional skill throughout his brief tenure as a combat commander. His last few days typify his life of courage, honor, dedication to duty, and love of his fellow man. Two days before Mike was killed, during fierce combat near Dak To, he was wounded by a mortar fragment through his knee. He refused to be evacuated, however, and stayed with his company. He did order his executive officer (XO) to the rear, as he had been wounded in the hand and it had become infected. The XO would return several days later to help reorganize the company (twenty-eight survivors of 101). On 19 November the battalion was committed to assault NVA positions on Hill 875 and began moving up the hill in classic two-up, one-back formation. D Company was on the left, C Company, under Captain Hal Kaufman (Mike's classmate and good friend), was on the right, and A Company brought up the rear. Before long the lead companies came under intense enemy fire, so Mike had his unit set up rear security and prepare a landing zone to evacuate the wounded. Through a series of tunnels and trails, the NVA was able to surround the three companies with superior force. Captain Mike Kiley had just been hit again by mortar shrapnel in the back and was having the wound dressed when he and his command group were overwhelmed and all were killed."
Could someone update the Wiki article identifying the Alpha Company Commander during the Battle for Hill 875 as Michael James Kiley, West Point class of 1964? —Preceding unsigned comment added by StyloK ( talk • contribs) 20:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Under the Section 'Operation Greeley', is a photo with the caption "The II Corps Tactical Zone, the Central Highlands of South Vietnam." This photo was previously a map that fit the description written in the caption. However, this picture has been changed to a photo of some guy named Dinesh Kaushik. Mr. Kaushik is not relevant to any aspect of this article and the caption below his picture is no longer accurate. I believe the picture should be reverted back to the proper map as soon as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.205.24 ( talk) 21:25, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
"All that prevented the company-strength North Vietnamese onslaught from overrunning the entire battalion was the heroic efforts of American paratroopers who stood their ground and died to buy time for their comrades."
This is not at all acceptable for an encyclopedia. It reads like bad military fiction. I've tagged the page for improvement.— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
24.228.144.88 (
talk) 18:34, 9 May 2015
I agree, as a former member of Co C and B/2bn 502Inf/1st Bde 101st Abn Div, this battle was fought by the C Co/2nd/502 Inf Bn/1st Bde/101 Abn Div in 1966 not 1967, in which Cpt Carpenter called in Napalm in on his own position as they were being overrun by hard core NVA with elements of Communist Chinese. Co A and B of the remaining 502nd Abn Bn and the 1st Bn and 2nd Bn of the 327 Abn Inf of the remaining 1st Bde of the 101st Abn Div, did a sweeping action to envelop the area and capture the NVA. the 173 Abn Bde was farther south doing their own operations. YOU NEED TO GET THE FACT STRAIGHT BEFORE POSTING THEM ON THIS SITE 75.88.253.207 ( talk) 17:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)MSG Wm Hesser US Army(ret).
"170K rounds of artillery; 2100 missions by fighter-bombers"; see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9a6_NUC5c&index=6&list=PLavFPJ2HzjdqKOyvWVCCS__LYymKq1FZ_#t=5m23s
I thought someone might want to cut this in somewhere. --
BenTrem (
talk)
01:24, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
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Killed in this conflict 11.22.67 Prabun1640 ( talk) 02:19, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Fustos: - with this
, your edit summary states "reverted in bad fait. User: Thewolfchild has not interest in talk. just wants to make additions difficult. causing possible NPOV issue
. You added this content with no sources or even an explanation. You have made similar edits to 3 different Vietnam-era battle articles. Two editors tried to discuss this with you and you refused to engage in any discussion. Now you complain that "no one wants to talk to you"...? You insult people in edit summaries (instead of actually explaining your edit) and kick people off your talk page when they try to help you. Now you are edit-warring on this article instead of simply following
WP:BRD. Where is your source for this content? Can you explain this edit, instead of using the edit summary feature to to
WP:BATTLE with other editors? Thank you -
theWOLFchild
11:51, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
While this article is particular good for a C class military history article sourced from a single historiographical tendencies basis, I can see how military historians within the tendency of US military history would well see how this article lacks an account derived from oppositional forces' historiography. In particular, the historiographical tendency of US military history conducted by, for, and within the mindset of US staff associations has a long and respectable institutional history of conducting historiography from opposing force perspectives. The account of the Soviet invasion of Manchuria is a case in point. As this article lacks a diversity of historiographical backgrounds, particularly when accounting for opposing force perspectives I think it is reasonable and adequate that we allow our readers to know the absence in our account. Our readers deserve it and we as editors deserve to admit that. Whether such accounts exist in other articles on the conflict between the RVN and NFL/PRG in the RVN is beside the point: the quality of this article is the question editorially. Fifelfoo ( talk) 06:45, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
User:Quenreerer by these edits [1] has made a number of changes to this otherwise stable page. I do not believe that these are any improvement and reverted them, opinions please. Mztourist ( talk) 12:17, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
Reverted removal of map (mistakenly wrote flag). And vote NO on removal. Reason? Other maps are complicated, which makes it harder to find the battle location. Also, infobox is not overloaded. Quenreerer ( talk) 15:32, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
Should the pushpin map in the Infobox be retained? Mztourist ( talk) 03:10, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
This is not even near a full story of this battle, Captain Bill Carpenter was awarded the DSC and fought wounded with a light company of 88 men. Napalm Bill, ordered a strike broken arrow on his own location, his Comanding General nominated him for the MOH and the Silver Star..
He was faced with 2000 enemies. And destroyed them and saved most his men. Lt. General William S. Carpenter Jr is a dear friend who is modest and honorable. John w. Nelson 2601:283:4003:9A20:910:6EB9:3CE6:10E9 ( talk) 18:39, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
On the same topic, same ( User:Mztourist) has insisted that the individual pictured (Wayne T. Winters) isn't "important" enough to be named without justification or initial discussion here. User:Mztourist did not follow BRD in that he immediately reverted (engaged in "back and forth reverting"), thereby not following the named process. Adding my own discussion here; I firmly disagree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FghIJklm ( talk • contribs) 18:20, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
The problem I see with this is the photo is from the engagement at Hill 882. The majority of fighting took place later, on Hill 875. To my mind the infobox should have a photo from 875 if it's going to have a photo at all. Featuring Winters is undue weight to the fighting on 882. Intothat darkness 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Battle of Dak To article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 3, 2012. |
I don't think this counts as a "pyrrhic victory", just a victory with relatively heavy casualties. I think the rule of thumb is over 30% casualties and with long-term effects. So, I'll remove the word "pyrrhic" from the article until someone complains. -- 71.172.37.93 ( talk) 05:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I have changed the battalion participating in Operation Greeley. I was RTO for C Company 2/503 and was with the unit when it went to the rescue of Alpha Company and the Company Commander and Company Platoon leaders were disciplined. I am my own reference. But have the members of my Company to verify this correction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RTOWayne ( talk • contribs) 23:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
The information below was taken from the following link: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1964/25405/
"Mike was assigned to the 173d Airborne Brigade in the Central Highlands, where a series of border battles with the North Vietnamese Army was being fought. In October 1967 he assumed command of Company A, Second Battalion, 503d Infantry, a unit of veteran infantrymen, which was involved in some of the most vicious combat of the Vietnam War. In a short period of time, Mike was to earn four Silver Stars, the first one being for personally going outside the perimeter, under intense enemy fire, to rescue one of his wounded soldiers. He led by personal example and professional skill throughout his brief tenure as a combat commander. His last few days typify his life of courage, honor, dedication to duty, and love of his fellow man. Two days before Mike was killed, during fierce combat near Dak To, he was wounded by a mortar fragment through his knee. He refused to be evacuated, however, and stayed with his company. He did order his executive officer (XO) to the rear, as he had been wounded in the hand and it had become infected. The XO would return several days later to help reorganize the company (twenty-eight survivors of 101). On 19 November the battalion was committed to assault NVA positions on Hill 875 and began moving up the hill in classic two-up, one-back formation. D Company was on the left, C Company, under Captain Hal Kaufman (Mike's classmate and good friend), was on the right, and A Company brought up the rear. Before long the lead companies came under intense enemy fire, so Mike had his unit set up rear security and prepare a landing zone to evacuate the wounded. Through a series of tunnels and trails, the NVA was able to surround the three companies with superior force. Captain Mike Kiley had just been hit again by mortar shrapnel in the back and was having the wound dressed when he and his command group were overwhelmed and all were killed."
Could someone update the Wiki article identifying the Alpha Company Commander during the Battle for Hill 875 as Michael James Kiley, West Point class of 1964? —Preceding unsigned comment added by StyloK ( talk • contribs) 20:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Under the Section 'Operation Greeley', is a photo with the caption "The II Corps Tactical Zone, the Central Highlands of South Vietnam." This photo was previously a map that fit the description written in the caption. However, this picture has been changed to a photo of some guy named Dinesh Kaushik. Mr. Kaushik is not relevant to any aspect of this article and the caption below his picture is no longer accurate. I believe the picture should be reverted back to the proper map as soon as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.205.24 ( talk) 21:25, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
"All that prevented the company-strength North Vietnamese onslaught from overrunning the entire battalion was the heroic efforts of American paratroopers who stood their ground and died to buy time for their comrades."
This is not at all acceptable for an encyclopedia. It reads like bad military fiction. I've tagged the page for improvement.— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
24.228.144.88 (
talk) 18:34, 9 May 2015
I agree, as a former member of Co C and B/2bn 502Inf/1st Bde 101st Abn Div, this battle was fought by the C Co/2nd/502 Inf Bn/1st Bde/101 Abn Div in 1966 not 1967, in which Cpt Carpenter called in Napalm in on his own position as they were being overrun by hard core NVA with elements of Communist Chinese. Co A and B of the remaining 502nd Abn Bn and the 1st Bn and 2nd Bn of the 327 Abn Inf of the remaining 1st Bde of the 101st Abn Div, did a sweeping action to envelop the area and capture the NVA. the 173 Abn Bde was farther south doing their own operations. YOU NEED TO GET THE FACT STRAIGHT BEFORE POSTING THEM ON THIS SITE 75.88.253.207 ( talk) 17:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)MSG Wm Hesser US Army(ret).
"170K rounds of artillery; 2100 missions by fighter-bombers"; see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9a6_NUC5c&index=6&list=PLavFPJ2HzjdqKOyvWVCCS__LYymKq1FZ_#t=5m23s
I thought someone might want to cut this in somewhere. --
BenTrem (
talk)
01:24, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Battle of Dak To. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:20, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Killed in this conflict 11.22.67 Prabun1640 ( talk) 02:19, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Fustos: - with this
, your edit summary states "reverted in bad fait. User: Thewolfchild has not interest in talk. just wants to make additions difficult. causing possible NPOV issue
. You added this content with no sources or even an explanation. You have made similar edits to 3 different Vietnam-era battle articles. Two editors tried to discuss this with you and you refused to engage in any discussion. Now you complain that "no one wants to talk to you"...? You insult people in edit summaries (instead of actually explaining your edit) and kick people off your talk page when they try to help you. Now you are edit-warring on this article instead of simply following
WP:BRD. Where is your source for this content? Can you explain this edit, instead of using the edit summary feature to to
WP:BATTLE with other editors? Thank you -
theWOLFchild
11:51, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
While this article is particular good for a C class military history article sourced from a single historiographical tendencies basis, I can see how military historians within the tendency of US military history would well see how this article lacks an account derived from oppositional forces' historiography. In particular, the historiographical tendency of US military history conducted by, for, and within the mindset of US staff associations has a long and respectable institutional history of conducting historiography from opposing force perspectives. The account of the Soviet invasion of Manchuria is a case in point. As this article lacks a diversity of historiographical backgrounds, particularly when accounting for opposing force perspectives I think it is reasonable and adequate that we allow our readers to know the absence in our account. Our readers deserve it and we as editors deserve to admit that. Whether such accounts exist in other articles on the conflict between the RVN and NFL/PRG in the RVN is beside the point: the quality of this article is the question editorially. Fifelfoo ( talk) 06:45, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
User:Quenreerer by these edits [1] has made a number of changes to this otherwise stable page. I do not believe that these are any improvement and reverted them, opinions please. Mztourist ( talk) 12:17, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
Reverted removal of map (mistakenly wrote flag). And vote NO on removal. Reason? Other maps are complicated, which makes it harder to find the battle location. Also, infobox is not overloaded. Quenreerer ( talk) 15:32, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
Should the pushpin map in the Infobox be retained? Mztourist ( talk) 03:10, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
This is not even near a full story of this battle, Captain Bill Carpenter was awarded the DSC and fought wounded with a light company of 88 men. Napalm Bill, ordered a strike broken arrow on his own location, his Comanding General nominated him for the MOH and the Silver Star..
He was faced with 2000 enemies. And destroyed them and saved most his men. Lt. General William S. Carpenter Jr is a dear friend who is modest and honorable. John w. Nelson 2601:283:4003:9A20:910:6EB9:3CE6:10E9 ( talk) 18:39, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
On the same topic, same ( User:Mztourist) has insisted that the individual pictured (Wayne T. Winters) isn't "important" enough to be named without justification or initial discussion here. User:Mztourist did not follow BRD in that he immediately reverted (engaged in "back and forth reverting"), thereby not following the named process. Adding my own discussion here; I firmly disagree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FghIJklm ( talk • contribs) 18:20, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
The problem I see with this is the photo is from the engagement at Hill 882. The majority of fighting took place later, on Hill 875. To my mind the infobox should have a photo from 875 if it's going to have a photo at all. Featuring Winters is undue weight to the fighting on 882. Intothat darkness 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)