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It is obviously relevant to mention the peoples inhabiting a city, while presenting this city. Therefore it should be mentionned that Batman is situated in the Kurdish dominated Southeast of Turkey. Bertilvidet 14:13, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Will you seriously doubt that Batman is predominantly inhabited by Kurds untill the Turkish state decides to make official statistics on the the ethnicity of its citizens? Bertilvidet 16:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
First of all, I will staunchly refrain from attributing any ideology to my co-editors, since I would concider that as a personal attack. There is obviously a discord about the content, so let's discuss the content rather than the persons involved in the debate. My end with the above comments is in first hand to understand the reasons your edits. Without knowing these its difficult to have a debate about the content. I am aware that some people don't think there is such an ethnicity, and some would claim they are simply Mountain Turks. With this approach it is obvious to find the references to Kurdishness POV. I dont know if you adhere to that view. But if we recognize that Turkey has a Kurdish minority, I believe it is beyond doubt that the province of Batman, and the broader vaguely defined Southeast is predominantly Kurdish - well at least I have not heard anyone recognizing Kurdishness deny that. But please advance your arguments, now I am in the situation where I try to guess what your reasons for the controversial edits could be. Bertilvidet 09:03, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
See The Guardian – What's in a name? Too much in Turkey for background and sources. -- Moby 12:48, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
The interesting thing, that makes it more difficult for me to see the arguments behind the removal of Kurdishness, is that even the Turkish government is about to fundamentally change its rhetoric on the Kurdish question. In August PM Erdogan went to Diyarbakır where he delivered a speech recognizing that he was in a Kurdish dominated area and claimed that the Kurdish question should be dealt with more democracy. On that occasion Erdogan stated on Turkish TV: "The Kurdish citizens are my citizens. [Kurdishness] is a sub-identity. We must not confuse sub-identity with supra-identity. They must all be viewed as a whole, as citizens of the Republic of Turkey." Bertilvidet 11:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
The fundamental problem with this argument is that it entails that a country's restriction on liberties, then also restricts what to be written in Wikipedia. If you can come up with reliable sources actually questioning the "claim" of Batman's Kurdish character we can consider treating it as a claim. Bertilvidet 09:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Maybe somebody who can read turkish could have a look on the city's official site, and add interesting facts and data to the article. Thanks! -- Hippalus 08:18, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the following links:
They don't refer directly to Batman, Turkey, and were originally placed in the article as sources for the statement that Southeastern Turkey is predominantly Kurdish. So either we can put them back in their original context (as in-line links after that statement in the intro), or we can leave them out altogether. I would vote for the second option.-- Hippalus 12:02, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't think we are getting anywhere with this reverting to and fro between the two versions. Cool Cat, Moby, and Bertilvidet, how about finding a consensus all of us can live with? A proposal: let's take Moby's version, and amend that with a footnote expressing (Cool Cat's concerns over) the inherent unverifiability of demographic statements without a census?-- Hippalus 17:29, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Hippalus, thanx for the effort in seeking a compromise. I do, however, agree with Cool Cat that the footnote solution not is optimal; but let's stick to it until we find a solution to the dispute. It is misleading to treat it as a claim of BBC. It is a widely accepted fact, to which I so far only know about political based contestations from the Turkish far right denying existance of Kurds. I don't mind spending a few hours finding and listing numerous academic and scholar articles, with exact references, describing Southeastern Turkey as predominantly Kurdish - but it will only be worth the effort if Cool Cat is open for scientific arguments and accepts that the Turkish Republic does not have the monopoly of truth, simply because it has the Monopoly on the use of force. Bertilvidet 08:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Hippalus, thank you...this is a good and constructive approach. I agree on leaving it for a while. There is still a lot of work to be done about Turkey, Kurdish issues etc. so it's rather frustrating spending the time on these heated debate rather than expanding and improving the article. Bertilvidet 16:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
If somebody doubts of the BBC, I find difficulty doubting about this, from the Turkish paper Hurriyet: "Three Turkish policemen were killed when PKK terrorists ambushed their minibus in the mainly Kurdish southeastern city of Batman, on Monday". (March 7). More important, has somebody noted that the mayor is from the DTP; excuse me but I have considerable difficulties immagining the local Turks voting for the Kurdish party, especially if the mayor in question says things like "Mr. Abdullah Ocalan is the leader of Kurdish people and dynamo of peace". I'm surprised this form of Hyperbolic doubt forgot to see the sentence "Many Turkish workers and state officials settled in the city", a sentence that is not supported by even one source.-- Aldux 18:10, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
We don't give any numbers, estimates or percentages in this little article. We simply state the fact that the region is predominantly Kurdish, which is yet to be questioned by a reliable source. Estimating percentages, and discussing the estimations, might be relevant on pages such as Turkey, Kurd and Turkish Kurdistan. Bertilvidet 11:59, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The Category Kurdistan has repeatedly been removed and I feel that tagging articles about the region that Kurds live in is a reasonable thing and will be adding the category back to the Batman articles and others. The primary argument (beyond personal opinion) used for the repeated removal has been that it somehow implies that Kurdistan is a country; as far as I know, no one has advanced the idea that it is a country — it demonstrably is not. However, the category has twice survived CFD and the use of the category does not really have this implication, it simply indicates that an area is a part of the historic lands of the Kurds, the land they have, and do, live in. Kurdistan may, at some point, become an independent nation — with northern Iraq as a likely start — but beyond documenting populations and the fact that there is a movement for the establishment of a Kurdish state, wikipedia articles should not, obviously, misrepresent the current state of the Land of the Kurds. Areas that can reasonably be cited as having predominate and historical Kurdish populations should be so categorized. -- Moby 11:52, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree, Moby, we have two issues at stake here. 1) Whether 'Kurdistan' is a legitimate category, 2) What articles fit into this category.
The first question has been answered positively in the CfD vote. However, I believe that before we start adding this category haphazardly to a lot of articles, we might better find a consensus on issue number two. The right place for such a discussion would be the category's talk page. What do you all think? Please answer that question on Category talk:Kurdistan ;-) -- Hippalus 13:10, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I have been asked by User:Cool Cat to come over and take a look at this dispute as a neutral third party. The first thing I will say is that just because Cool Cat has asked me over here, doesn't mean I'm going to take their side.
I understand from the article that the city is predominantly populated by Kurds, but that this information is hard to verify because the Turkish census doesn't list ethnicity, and that's fine. How you reference that is unimportant, as long as it is referenced, and any claims made in the article make it clear that this information is currently unverifiable by standard sources. I don't think it is enough to simply put "Batman is a city predominantly populated by Kurds" in the article, with the information about the lack of verifiability down below in the references: it has to be made clearer than that in the article itself. For example Batman ... is a city in the south east of Turkey. It is the capital of Batman Province, and has a population of 246,700. The city is predominantly Kurdish (if it is, that claim isn't actually made by the article itself) although there are no official statistics to say what percentage of the population this respresents. Feel free to rearrange but it does need to be pointed out as clearly as that.
As far as
Category:Kurdistan goes I'll have a wander over to that category's talk page (when I have time) and discuss it there. --
Fr
a
ncs2000
14:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
So to summarise what the discussion has produced so far.
What this is going to need from both sides is more evidence to state the case one way or the other. The fundamental question at the end of the day is, what evidence do we have that these cities are predominantly Kurdish, and what evidence do we have that they are not? When we have gathered this evidence then it is time to discuss how it is presented in the article and others like it. And please remember to remain civil in your discussions. --
Fr
a
ncs2000
09:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I, again, invite you to provide some reasonable source for the view that the region is not predominantly Kurdish. -- Moby 02:30, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Although Kurds are to be found in Syria, the Caucasian republics of Armenia and Azerbaijan, Khorasan (in eastern Iran), and in Lebanon, the main concentration lives today where the Kurdish people have always lived - in the mountains where Iran, Iraq and Turkey meet. The heart of this area consists of the extremely rugged mountains of the Zagros range, running in ridges north-west to south-east. In the west these mountain folds give way to rolling hills, and to the Mesopotamian plain. To the north the mountains slowly turn to steppe-like plateau and the highlands of Anatolia. To the east the mountains fall away to lowlands onto which the Kurds have also spread.
Although the population is not exclusively Kurdish in much of this area, the dominant culture is Kurdish. From the early thirteenth century onwards much of this area has been called Kurdistan, although it was not until the sixteenth century, after the Kurds had moved north and west onto the Anatolian plateau, that the term Kurdistan came into common usage to denote a system of Kurdish fiefs. Since then, although the term Kurdistan appears on few maps, it is clearly more than a geographical term since it also refers to a human culture which exists in that land.
Nevertheless no map of Kurdistan can be drawn without contention, and for this reason the demographic map is not a political statement, but a statement of where large numbers of Kurds are found. Turkey for all practical purposes denies Kurdistan's existence, while Iran and Iraq are reluctant to acknowledge that it is as extensive as many Kurds would have them accept.
— from minorityrights.org
-- Moby 07:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia, it documents facts and provides information. There are Kurds in this world, and they come from a specific part of it. It is only reasonable that the mechanisms of this site, including categorization, be employed to cover issues relating to Kurds. The fact that the Turkish Government has denied the very concept of 'Kurd' should be covered; this fact is not, however, grounds for not covering the subject of Kurds — indeed it is an excellent reason to be sure to cover it fully and accurately with as many reputable sources as can be mustered. -- Moby 02:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Because the people have the right to know real fact about the cities and who lives there, isn´t that what we all are seeking for, facts, truth, backgrounds. And everyone have the right to know predominantly Kurdish cities or provinces, that´s for sure
-- OtrO DiA OtrO DiA 15:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
(My previous comment on this page I have removed because this one seems more appropriate according to recent comments made elsewhere)
At
Category talk:Kurdistan
User:Cool Cat has said that I do see kurdistan as a propsed country and I frankly do not care if the category page or the article suggest otherwise. Are all parties at least prepared to work together here to achieve a consensus? Because this comment does not give me that impression. Unless everyone is prepared to come to some agreement here I don't really see any point in my getting involved. --
Fr
a
ncs2000
19:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I have some doubts about objectivity here. No offense intended. Naturally we may all have similar issues. But could you honestly state here that you are totally impartial in this Turkey-related article? -- Gokhan 07:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Fine by me. About the article though... I think having a city with a majority of kurdish population is no problem, but the article seems to contain some propaganda wording. What do you say? I mean stating facts from a single POV is also propagando no? The article puts a lot of stress on "kurdish". I mean it's already stated at the beginning. Repeating seems by purpose. -- Gokhan 09:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
because that is what you are saying, and like I said, yes that´s the truth, you can´t denie that. OtrO DiA OtrO DiA 00:16, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
A few days ago, I added a paragraph about a child who was killed by Turkish Security Forces — and I gave a source for the account, the EU-Turkey Civic Commission Submission on Recent Violence. Recently an edit war occurred over this cited fact and the article has been protected on a version that omits the account. I see no reason why it should not be restored.
Furthermore, an account of the harassment and detention of Ayhan Karabulut, the Chairperson of Democratic Society Party's Batman branch should be added (see the link, which also details many incidents in Diyarbakır). -- Moby 02:40, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
— to be added — Moby 06:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
If a notable-enough event such as this happens, it should definately be in the article. For example, take a look at the Nasiriyah article, should we not present notable things that happen? — Khoikhoi 00:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
01/07 120 Aalstenaars herdenken door agent neergeschoten Turk Terwijl het gezin van de Turkse man Ceylan Ardiçlar, die midden juni is neergeschoten door een Aalsters politieagent, in Turkije is voor de begrafenis, hebben zo'n 120 mensen een herdenkingsplechtigheid gehouden in Aalst. Een twintigtal legde bloemen neer op de plek waar hij werd neergekogeld, vlakbij de Sint-Annabrug. Het was een stille herdenking, met een aantal speeches, maar geen echte betoging. De actievoerders, onder leiding van Hand in Hand, vragen wel met klem de opheldering van de zaak. Het waren vooral autochtone Aalstenaars die kwamen opdagen. Veel Turken zijn al op vakantie vertrokken en er waren voor deze herdenking weinig of geen afspraken gemaakt met de Turkse gemeenschap, beweert een neef van de overleden man, die in de buurt was. Het Belang van Limburg
I won't translate it textually but this is an article in Het Belang van Limburg, prominent newspaper for Limburg region of Belgium, about a Turkish man -or to be more precise, on his commemoration by fellow townsfolk-, Ceylan Ardıçlar, who was shot down by a Belgian police agent mid-June in Aalst, Belgium (on the back, after a routine identity check, while Ardıçlar was quietly walking towards his home, no clash situation, no provocation or suspicious behavior whatsoever, absolutely nothing, clean-cut hard-working citizen, I can seek out additional details on the incident). But, if this incident deserves to be in the page for Aalst, Belgium, then I will view it as natural that the -extremely regrettable- incident of Fatih Tekin should be on the page for Batman, Turkey. I will highly appreciate if someone could inscribe the memory of Ceylan Ardıçlar on Aalst, Belgium page. In the meantime, I am removing the part on Fatih Tekin from here. Cretanforever
what is the point to argue if batman population are dominantly kurds or not? the region is the central of kurdistan inhabited by kurdish tribes,especially after kurdish villages s been emptied and people forced to live in the urban areas its widely been moved by etnic kurds.today %90 of batman is kurds as i am from there.but with sizeable arabic and turk clerks families. croyance
Could this be worked into the article? http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME08.@AM66722.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.234.79 ( talk) 01:34, 7 November 2008 (UTC) -- DC Comics should totally counter-sue, since the comic character had the name before the city did. :D Captain Pedant ( talk) 10:35, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
On 7 November 2008, former Batman Mayor
Hüseyin Kalkan began looking into the possibility of suing
Christopher Nolan, director of
Batman Begins and
The Dark Knight, and
Warner Bros., distributor of the films, claiming the studios had been using "
Batman", the name of the superhero, without permission from the city, and "placing the blame for a number of unsolved murders and a high female suicide rate on the psychological impact that the films' success has had on the city's inhabitants." No lawsuit has actually been filed.Jaafar, Ali (2008-11-11).
"Bat Spat: Turk kicks Caped Crusader (Mayor of Batman sues WB, Nolan: Southeastern city in Turkey fights for name)". London: Variety. Retrieved 2008-11-21. 'We are only aware of this claim via press reports and have not seen any actual legal action,' a Warner Bros. rep said in a statement.
{{
cite news}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)
Batman is one of the most important place for Arabs in Turkey [1] Besides Batman, considerable number of Arabs live in Mardin, Şanlıurfa, Gaziantep, Hatay, Siirt, Muş, Bitlis, Van, Şırnak, İstanbul, Ankara, Antalya, İzmir, Adana, Mersin and Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti.
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Batman Güneydoğu Anadolu Bölgesi'nde Batman ili'nin ve Merkez ilçe'nin yönetim merkezi olan şehirdir. Gercüş, Hasankeyf, Beşiri, Kozluk ve Sason ilçeleri bulunmaktadır. Nüfusu hızla artan şehirde sanayi, petrol ve inşaat sektörünün de gelişmesiyle de bölgede güçlü konuma sahip bir kenttir.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Batman, Turkey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Please revise this: "According to the census of 2000, 15% males and 43% females of Batman were categorized as illiterate. Within the literate part, about 33% males and 29% females have not finished secondary school, 3.3% males and 0.9% females had university education, and about 13% males and 3.8% females had completed a high-school or an equivalent program"
To this: According to the census of 2014, the literacy rate of the city is at 92% close to 96% national average. source: https://dikanet.dika.org.tr/FileContainer/Web/files/f5261745-ebe8-472b-94da-3184e4262a64.pdf 212.73.172.172 ( talk) 17:42, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
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leader_name = James Gordon
leader_name2 = Bruce Wayne Omar.abounacer ( talk) 14:04, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Why is this protected? 2600:1005:B113:B815:8014:BCCA:E97:F079 ( talk) 01:31, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
I would assume it is because of the city name's resemblance to that of a certain comic book character Dstroyer101 ( talk) 17:11, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
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It is obviously relevant to mention the peoples inhabiting a city, while presenting this city. Therefore it should be mentionned that Batman is situated in the Kurdish dominated Southeast of Turkey. Bertilvidet 14:13, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Will you seriously doubt that Batman is predominantly inhabited by Kurds untill the Turkish state decides to make official statistics on the the ethnicity of its citizens? Bertilvidet 16:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
First of all, I will staunchly refrain from attributing any ideology to my co-editors, since I would concider that as a personal attack. There is obviously a discord about the content, so let's discuss the content rather than the persons involved in the debate. My end with the above comments is in first hand to understand the reasons your edits. Without knowing these its difficult to have a debate about the content. I am aware that some people don't think there is such an ethnicity, and some would claim they are simply Mountain Turks. With this approach it is obvious to find the references to Kurdishness POV. I dont know if you adhere to that view. But if we recognize that Turkey has a Kurdish minority, I believe it is beyond doubt that the province of Batman, and the broader vaguely defined Southeast is predominantly Kurdish - well at least I have not heard anyone recognizing Kurdishness deny that. But please advance your arguments, now I am in the situation where I try to guess what your reasons for the controversial edits could be. Bertilvidet 09:03, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
See The Guardian – What's in a name? Too much in Turkey for background and sources. -- Moby 12:48, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
The interesting thing, that makes it more difficult for me to see the arguments behind the removal of Kurdishness, is that even the Turkish government is about to fundamentally change its rhetoric on the Kurdish question. In August PM Erdogan went to Diyarbakır where he delivered a speech recognizing that he was in a Kurdish dominated area and claimed that the Kurdish question should be dealt with more democracy. On that occasion Erdogan stated on Turkish TV: "The Kurdish citizens are my citizens. [Kurdishness] is a sub-identity. We must not confuse sub-identity with supra-identity. They must all be viewed as a whole, as citizens of the Republic of Turkey." Bertilvidet 11:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
The fundamental problem with this argument is that it entails that a country's restriction on liberties, then also restricts what to be written in Wikipedia. If you can come up with reliable sources actually questioning the "claim" of Batman's Kurdish character we can consider treating it as a claim. Bertilvidet 09:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Maybe somebody who can read turkish could have a look on the city's official site, and add interesting facts and data to the article. Thanks! -- Hippalus 08:18, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the following links:
They don't refer directly to Batman, Turkey, and were originally placed in the article as sources for the statement that Southeastern Turkey is predominantly Kurdish. So either we can put them back in their original context (as in-line links after that statement in the intro), or we can leave them out altogether. I would vote for the second option.-- Hippalus 12:02, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't think we are getting anywhere with this reverting to and fro between the two versions. Cool Cat, Moby, and Bertilvidet, how about finding a consensus all of us can live with? A proposal: let's take Moby's version, and amend that with a footnote expressing (Cool Cat's concerns over) the inherent unverifiability of demographic statements without a census?-- Hippalus 17:29, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Hippalus, thanx for the effort in seeking a compromise. I do, however, agree with Cool Cat that the footnote solution not is optimal; but let's stick to it until we find a solution to the dispute. It is misleading to treat it as a claim of BBC. It is a widely accepted fact, to which I so far only know about political based contestations from the Turkish far right denying existance of Kurds. I don't mind spending a few hours finding and listing numerous academic and scholar articles, with exact references, describing Southeastern Turkey as predominantly Kurdish - but it will only be worth the effort if Cool Cat is open for scientific arguments and accepts that the Turkish Republic does not have the monopoly of truth, simply because it has the Monopoly on the use of force. Bertilvidet 08:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Hippalus, thank you...this is a good and constructive approach. I agree on leaving it for a while. There is still a lot of work to be done about Turkey, Kurdish issues etc. so it's rather frustrating spending the time on these heated debate rather than expanding and improving the article. Bertilvidet 16:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
If somebody doubts of the BBC, I find difficulty doubting about this, from the Turkish paper Hurriyet: "Three Turkish policemen were killed when PKK terrorists ambushed their minibus in the mainly Kurdish southeastern city of Batman, on Monday". (March 7). More important, has somebody noted that the mayor is from the DTP; excuse me but I have considerable difficulties immagining the local Turks voting for the Kurdish party, especially if the mayor in question says things like "Mr. Abdullah Ocalan is the leader of Kurdish people and dynamo of peace". I'm surprised this form of Hyperbolic doubt forgot to see the sentence "Many Turkish workers and state officials settled in the city", a sentence that is not supported by even one source.-- Aldux 18:10, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
We don't give any numbers, estimates or percentages in this little article. We simply state the fact that the region is predominantly Kurdish, which is yet to be questioned by a reliable source. Estimating percentages, and discussing the estimations, might be relevant on pages such as Turkey, Kurd and Turkish Kurdistan. Bertilvidet 11:59, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The Category Kurdistan has repeatedly been removed and I feel that tagging articles about the region that Kurds live in is a reasonable thing and will be adding the category back to the Batman articles and others. The primary argument (beyond personal opinion) used for the repeated removal has been that it somehow implies that Kurdistan is a country; as far as I know, no one has advanced the idea that it is a country — it demonstrably is not. However, the category has twice survived CFD and the use of the category does not really have this implication, it simply indicates that an area is a part of the historic lands of the Kurds, the land they have, and do, live in. Kurdistan may, at some point, become an independent nation — with northern Iraq as a likely start — but beyond documenting populations and the fact that there is a movement for the establishment of a Kurdish state, wikipedia articles should not, obviously, misrepresent the current state of the Land of the Kurds. Areas that can reasonably be cited as having predominate and historical Kurdish populations should be so categorized. -- Moby 11:52, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree, Moby, we have two issues at stake here. 1) Whether 'Kurdistan' is a legitimate category, 2) What articles fit into this category.
The first question has been answered positively in the CfD vote. However, I believe that before we start adding this category haphazardly to a lot of articles, we might better find a consensus on issue number two. The right place for such a discussion would be the category's talk page. What do you all think? Please answer that question on Category talk:Kurdistan ;-) -- Hippalus 13:10, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I have been asked by User:Cool Cat to come over and take a look at this dispute as a neutral third party. The first thing I will say is that just because Cool Cat has asked me over here, doesn't mean I'm going to take their side.
I understand from the article that the city is predominantly populated by Kurds, but that this information is hard to verify because the Turkish census doesn't list ethnicity, and that's fine. How you reference that is unimportant, as long as it is referenced, and any claims made in the article make it clear that this information is currently unverifiable by standard sources. I don't think it is enough to simply put "Batman is a city predominantly populated by Kurds" in the article, with the information about the lack of verifiability down below in the references: it has to be made clearer than that in the article itself. For example Batman ... is a city in the south east of Turkey. It is the capital of Batman Province, and has a population of 246,700. The city is predominantly Kurdish (if it is, that claim isn't actually made by the article itself) although there are no official statistics to say what percentage of the population this respresents. Feel free to rearrange but it does need to be pointed out as clearly as that.
As far as
Category:Kurdistan goes I'll have a wander over to that category's talk page (when I have time) and discuss it there. --
Fr
a
ncs2000
14:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
So to summarise what the discussion has produced so far.
What this is going to need from both sides is more evidence to state the case one way or the other. The fundamental question at the end of the day is, what evidence do we have that these cities are predominantly Kurdish, and what evidence do we have that they are not? When we have gathered this evidence then it is time to discuss how it is presented in the article and others like it. And please remember to remain civil in your discussions. --
Fr
a
ncs2000
09:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I, again, invite you to provide some reasonable source for the view that the region is not predominantly Kurdish. -- Moby 02:30, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Although Kurds are to be found in Syria, the Caucasian republics of Armenia and Azerbaijan, Khorasan (in eastern Iran), and in Lebanon, the main concentration lives today where the Kurdish people have always lived - in the mountains where Iran, Iraq and Turkey meet. The heart of this area consists of the extremely rugged mountains of the Zagros range, running in ridges north-west to south-east. In the west these mountain folds give way to rolling hills, and to the Mesopotamian plain. To the north the mountains slowly turn to steppe-like plateau and the highlands of Anatolia. To the east the mountains fall away to lowlands onto which the Kurds have also spread.
Although the population is not exclusively Kurdish in much of this area, the dominant culture is Kurdish. From the early thirteenth century onwards much of this area has been called Kurdistan, although it was not until the sixteenth century, after the Kurds had moved north and west onto the Anatolian plateau, that the term Kurdistan came into common usage to denote a system of Kurdish fiefs. Since then, although the term Kurdistan appears on few maps, it is clearly more than a geographical term since it also refers to a human culture which exists in that land.
Nevertheless no map of Kurdistan can be drawn without contention, and for this reason the demographic map is not a political statement, but a statement of where large numbers of Kurds are found. Turkey for all practical purposes denies Kurdistan's existence, while Iran and Iraq are reluctant to acknowledge that it is as extensive as many Kurds would have them accept.
— from minorityrights.org
-- Moby 07:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia, it documents facts and provides information. There are Kurds in this world, and they come from a specific part of it. It is only reasonable that the mechanisms of this site, including categorization, be employed to cover issues relating to Kurds. The fact that the Turkish Government has denied the very concept of 'Kurd' should be covered; this fact is not, however, grounds for not covering the subject of Kurds — indeed it is an excellent reason to be sure to cover it fully and accurately with as many reputable sources as can be mustered. -- Moby 02:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Because the people have the right to know real fact about the cities and who lives there, isn´t that what we all are seeking for, facts, truth, backgrounds. And everyone have the right to know predominantly Kurdish cities or provinces, that´s for sure
-- OtrO DiA OtrO DiA 15:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
(My previous comment on this page I have removed because this one seems more appropriate according to recent comments made elsewhere)
At
Category talk:Kurdistan
User:Cool Cat has said that I do see kurdistan as a propsed country and I frankly do not care if the category page or the article suggest otherwise. Are all parties at least prepared to work together here to achieve a consensus? Because this comment does not give me that impression. Unless everyone is prepared to come to some agreement here I don't really see any point in my getting involved. --
Fr
a
ncs2000
19:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I have some doubts about objectivity here. No offense intended. Naturally we may all have similar issues. But could you honestly state here that you are totally impartial in this Turkey-related article? -- Gokhan 07:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Fine by me. About the article though... I think having a city with a majority of kurdish population is no problem, but the article seems to contain some propaganda wording. What do you say? I mean stating facts from a single POV is also propagando no? The article puts a lot of stress on "kurdish". I mean it's already stated at the beginning. Repeating seems by purpose. -- Gokhan 09:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
because that is what you are saying, and like I said, yes that´s the truth, you can´t denie that. OtrO DiA OtrO DiA 00:16, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
A few days ago, I added a paragraph about a child who was killed by Turkish Security Forces — and I gave a source for the account, the EU-Turkey Civic Commission Submission on Recent Violence. Recently an edit war occurred over this cited fact and the article has been protected on a version that omits the account. I see no reason why it should not be restored.
Furthermore, an account of the harassment and detention of Ayhan Karabulut, the Chairperson of Democratic Society Party's Batman branch should be added (see the link, which also details many incidents in Diyarbakır). -- Moby 02:40, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
— to be added — Moby 06:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
If a notable-enough event such as this happens, it should definately be in the article. For example, take a look at the Nasiriyah article, should we not present notable things that happen? — Khoikhoi 00:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
01/07 120 Aalstenaars herdenken door agent neergeschoten Turk Terwijl het gezin van de Turkse man Ceylan Ardiçlar, die midden juni is neergeschoten door een Aalsters politieagent, in Turkije is voor de begrafenis, hebben zo'n 120 mensen een herdenkingsplechtigheid gehouden in Aalst. Een twintigtal legde bloemen neer op de plek waar hij werd neergekogeld, vlakbij de Sint-Annabrug. Het was een stille herdenking, met een aantal speeches, maar geen echte betoging. De actievoerders, onder leiding van Hand in Hand, vragen wel met klem de opheldering van de zaak. Het waren vooral autochtone Aalstenaars die kwamen opdagen. Veel Turken zijn al op vakantie vertrokken en er waren voor deze herdenking weinig of geen afspraken gemaakt met de Turkse gemeenschap, beweert een neef van de overleden man, die in de buurt was. Het Belang van Limburg
I won't translate it textually but this is an article in Het Belang van Limburg, prominent newspaper for Limburg region of Belgium, about a Turkish man -or to be more precise, on his commemoration by fellow townsfolk-, Ceylan Ardıçlar, who was shot down by a Belgian police agent mid-June in Aalst, Belgium (on the back, after a routine identity check, while Ardıçlar was quietly walking towards his home, no clash situation, no provocation or suspicious behavior whatsoever, absolutely nothing, clean-cut hard-working citizen, I can seek out additional details on the incident). But, if this incident deserves to be in the page for Aalst, Belgium, then I will view it as natural that the -extremely regrettable- incident of Fatih Tekin should be on the page for Batman, Turkey. I will highly appreciate if someone could inscribe the memory of Ceylan Ardıçlar on Aalst, Belgium page. In the meantime, I am removing the part on Fatih Tekin from here. Cretanforever
what is the point to argue if batman population are dominantly kurds or not? the region is the central of kurdistan inhabited by kurdish tribes,especially after kurdish villages s been emptied and people forced to live in the urban areas its widely been moved by etnic kurds.today %90 of batman is kurds as i am from there.but with sizeable arabic and turk clerks families. croyance
Could this be worked into the article? http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME08.@AM66722.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.234.79 ( talk) 01:34, 7 November 2008 (UTC) -- DC Comics should totally counter-sue, since the comic character had the name before the city did. :D Captain Pedant ( talk) 10:35, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
On 7 November 2008, former Batman Mayor
Hüseyin Kalkan began looking into the possibility of suing
Christopher Nolan, director of
Batman Begins and
The Dark Knight, and
Warner Bros., distributor of the films, claiming the studios had been using "
Batman", the name of the superhero, without permission from the city, and "placing the blame for a number of unsolved murders and a high female suicide rate on the psychological impact that the films' success has had on the city's inhabitants." No lawsuit has actually been filed.Jaafar, Ali (2008-11-11).
"Bat Spat: Turk kicks Caped Crusader (Mayor of Batman sues WB, Nolan: Southeastern city in Turkey fights for name)". London: Variety. Retrieved 2008-11-21. 'We are only aware of this claim via press reports and have not seen any actual legal action,' a Warner Bros. rep said in a statement.
{{
cite news}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)
Batman is one of the most important place for Arabs in Turkey [1] Besides Batman, considerable number of Arabs live in Mardin, Şanlıurfa, Gaziantep, Hatay, Siirt, Muş, Bitlis, Van, Şırnak, İstanbul, Ankara, Antalya, İzmir, Adana, Mersin and Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti.
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Batman Güneydoğu Anadolu Bölgesi'nde Batman ili'nin ve Merkez ilçe'nin yönetim merkezi olan şehirdir. Gercüş, Hasankeyf, Beşiri, Kozluk ve Sason ilçeleri bulunmaktadır. Nüfusu hızla artan şehirde sanayi, petrol ve inşaat sektörünün de gelişmesiyle de bölgede güçlü konuma sahip bir kenttir.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Please revise this: "According to the census of 2000, 15% males and 43% females of Batman were categorized as illiterate. Within the literate part, about 33% males and 29% females have not finished secondary school, 3.3% males and 0.9% females had university education, and about 13% males and 3.8% females had completed a high-school or an equivalent program"
To this: According to the census of 2014, the literacy rate of the city is at 92% close to 96% national average. source: https://dikanet.dika.org.tr/FileContainer/Web/files/f5261745-ebe8-472b-94da-3184e4262a64.pdf 212.73.172.172 ( talk) 17:42, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
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leader_name = James Gordon
leader_name2 = Bruce Wayne Omar.abounacer ( talk) 14:04, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Why is this protected? 2600:1005:B113:B815:8014:BCCA:E97:F079 ( talk) 01:31, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
I would assume it is because of the city name's resemblance to that of a certain comic book character Dstroyer101 ( talk) 17:11, 10 October 2022 (UTC)