Bat virome has been listed as one of the
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Discussion of dogs and arctic fox as transmission vectors is off-topic. Should it be deleted? Aloysiussnuffleupagus ( talk) 13:51, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
I have a problem with the lead. Stating that a bat-borne virus is any virus whose PRIMARY reservoir is any species of bat, and then following that with a list of viruses which some have not been proven to be bat-borne. SARS-CoV-2 has not been proven to be bat-borne. I think it's misinforming the public when speculation is used as fact. Please, if others can also review this and discuss here, it would be appreciated. Even the links provided are weak in evidence and do not provide such bold statements as this lead.
"A bat-borne virus is any virus whose primary reservoir is any species of bat. The viruses include coronaviruses such as severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2); hantaviruses; lyssaviruses such as rabies virus and Australian bat lyssavirus; henipaviruses such as nipah virus and Hendra virus; Lassa virus; Ebola virus; and Marburg virus. Several bat-borne viruses are considered important emerging viruses."
Battykin ( talk) 23:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
"The bat coronavirus, which was the ancestor of SARS-CoV-2, has 19 amino acids on the spike protein that are different from SARS-CoV-2; the pangolin coronavirus only has five amino acids that are different from SARS-CoV-2. Meanwhile, several other research groups have found further experimental evidence of pangolins being infected by coronaviruses highly similar to SARS-CoV-2."
"Neither the bat betacoronaviruses nor the pangolin betacoronaviruses sampled thus far have polybasic cleavage sites. Although no animal coronavirus has been identified that is sufficiently similar to have served as the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV-2, the diversity of coronaviruses in bats and other species is massively undersampled."
While I believe there are strong similarities and the likelihood of a bat species being a possible host, I still think it's misleading to use words like "certain". I also think it's important for the public to know that the fact that bats have always been used as samples is another reason why they find more viruses in them. Other animals do not get the same amount of testing. Here is an article regarding that:
I appreciate your feedback! Battykin ( talk) 04:36, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
From https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01541-z and https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/health/coronavirus-origin-china-lucey.html it now seems to be a consensus view?
Found another review article here that could be good to finish this off and finally nominate for GA. Enwebb ( talk) 19:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
The article uses the Baltimore classification system as the basis for creating sections. Baltimore groups have to do with how viruses create their mRNA, but this article does not discuss molecular & cellular biology much. Also, various Baltimore groups are polyphyletic, so grouping unrelated viruses together may give the average reader the impression that the families within a Baltimore group are related. E.g. the dsDNA section has three families, Adenoviridae, Herpesviridae, and Papillomaviridae. These three families belong to three different realms and since virus realms have no genetic relation to each other these three families are unrelated, so grouping them together via Baltimore groups when the lower taxa are united by genetic relation may misinform readers, especially since Baltimore classification isn't explained in the article.
ICTV taxonomy is the official system used, so I think before being promoted to GA it may be better to reorganize the sections to place the current lower taxa into the realms they belong to. If a realm is too long, then its kingdoms can be subsections. Orthornavirae may be long, so its phyla can be used for subsections. A section for "other viruses" can be created for viruses not assigned to a realm. I can rearrange the article to show what it would look like with the new structure. If this is done, then some parts of the text will have to be changed to deemphasize Baltimore groups and make greater mention of higher taxa. Velayinosu ( talk) 00:26, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Chidgk1 ( talk · contribs) 11:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
GA review – see
WP:WIAGA for criteria
Hello @ Enwebb: - I am glad you are explaining this important and topical subject. As I know almost nothing about it yet I am afraid I am going to be taking up your time with lots of naive questions. And if any of my suggestions do not make sense scientifically fell free to reject them but please explain why in layman's terms.
Hello @ Enwebb:. I hope you are well. Although the article is mostly OK I think there are a few places where it is still not clear enough for the general reader. I am happy to help with fixing the prose but I don't know enough to be able to do it all by myself. So I am putting this on hold for the moment. If I don't hear from you in the next few days I will ask the Bats Task Force for some expert help. Chidgk1 ( talk) 06:19, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello again @ Enwebb:. Thanks for making more improvements. As you can see prose is the only area which still needs fixing and (although the prose in some other sections would have to be further improved if you go for "featured" in future) I think only the lead is the vital last hurdle to get to "good article". Although we don't need to simplify it as far as an article on Simple English Wikipedia it is still too technical for the general reader. This is not just my opinion but would be shared by another reviewer I am sure.
Obviously because you are an expert and have worked so much on this article it is hard for you to read it as if you were a layman coming fresh to the subject. Therefore I have made an attempt at rewriting the lead. Could you have a look at the below to see whether I have got anything wrong or missed anything vital for a lead, and amend as you think necessary:
The bat virome is the set of viruses which infect bats. [note 1] Although bats host all types of virus, most of those identified as of 2020 [update] are single stranded RNA viruses in the Coronaviridae and Rhabdoviridae families.
Despite the abundance of viruses associated with bats, they rarely become ill from viral infections, and rabies is the only viral illness known to kill bats. Bat virology has been much researched, particularly bat immune response. Bats' immune systems differ from other mammals in their lack of several inflammasomes, which activate the body's inflammatory response, and they produce interferon less. Although they defend against viruses excess inflammation and interferon can damage the body. Preliminary evidence indicates bats are thus more tolerant of infection than other mammals.
Much research has centered on bats as a source of zoonotic viruses, which can cause disease in humans, and whether bats harbor more of these than other orders of mammals. As of 2020 [update], according to most recent studies, on average a species of bat will host no more zoonotic viruses than another species of mammal or bird. But there are more species of bats than any other order of mammal, bar rodents, and bats in total host more kinds of zoonotic viruses than other orders of mammal, except perhaps rodents. [1]
Some bat-borne viruses are considered important emerging viruses. [2] [3] These zoonotic viruses include the rabies virus, Marburg virus, Nipah virus, Hendra virus, SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2. [4] While transmission of rabies from bats to humans usually occurs via biting, most other zoonotic bat viruses are transmitted by direct contact with infected bat fluids like urine, guano, or saliva, or through contact with an infected, non-bat intermediate host. In some cases the intermediate host is known, for example MERS-CoV was transmitted to humans via camels. But how SARS-CoV-2, which causes coronavirus disease 2019, was first transmitted to humans is not yet certain, although the Sunda pangolin is one suspect. It has been speculated that bats may have a role in the ecology of the Ebola virus, though this is unconfirmed. There is no firm evidence that butchering or consuming bat meat can lead to viral transmission, though this has been speculated.
Good Article review progress box
|
Chidgk1 ( talk) 11:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Mollentze
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).An increasingly asked question is 'can we confidently link bats with emerging viruses?'. No, or not yet, is the qualified answer based on the evidence available.
MacKenzie
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Bat virome has been listed as one of the
Natural sciences good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: July 18, 2020. ( Reviewed version). |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Bat virome article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Discussion of dogs and arctic fox as transmission vectors is off-topic. Should it be deleted? Aloysiussnuffleupagus ( talk) 13:51, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
I have a problem with the lead. Stating that a bat-borne virus is any virus whose PRIMARY reservoir is any species of bat, and then following that with a list of viruses which some have not been proven to be bat-borne. SARS-CoV-2 has not been proven to be bat-borne. I think it's misinforming the public when speculation is used as fact. Please, if others can also review this and discuss here, it would be appreciated. Even the links provided are weak in evidence and do not provide such bold statements as this lead.
"A bat-borne virus is any virus whose primary reservoir is any species of bat. The viruses include coronaviruses such as severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2); hantaviruses; lyssaviruses such as rabies virus and Australian bat lyssavirus; henipaviruses such as nipah virus and Hendra virus; Lassa virus; Ebola virus; and Marburg virus. Several bat-borne viruses are considered important emerging viruses."
Battykin ( talk) 23:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
"The bat coronavirus, which was the ancestor of SARS-CoV-2, has 19 amino acids on the spike protein that are different from SARS-CoV-2; the pangolin coronavirus only has five amino acids that are different from SARS-CoV-2. Meanwhile, several other research groups have found further experimental evidence of pangolins being infected by coronaviruses highly similar to SARS-CoV-2."
"Neither the bat betacoronaviruses nor the pangolin betacoronaviruses sampled thus far have polybasic cleavage sites. Although no animal coronavirus has been identified that is sufficiently similar to have served as the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV-2, the diversity of coronaviruses in bats and other species is massively undersampled."
While I believe there are strong similarities and the likelihood of a bat species being a possible host, I still think it's misleading to use words like "certain". I also think it's important for the public to know that the fact that bats have always been used as samples is another reason why they find more viruses in them. Other animals do not get the same amount of testing. Here is an article regarding that:
I appreciate your feedback! Battykin ( talk) 04:36, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
From https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01541-z and https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/health/coronavirus-origin-china-lucey.html it now seems to be a consensus view?
Found another review article here that could be good to finish this off and finally nominate for GA. Enwebb ( talk) 19:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
The article uses the Baltimore classification system as the basis for creating sections. Baltimore groups have to do with how viruses create their mRNA, but this article does not discuss molecular & cellular biology much. Also, various Baltimore groups are polyphyletic, so grouping unrelated viruses together may give the average reader the impression that the families within a Baltimore group are related. E.g. the dsDNA section has three families, Adenoviridae, Herpesviridae, and Papillomaviridae. These three families belong to three different realms and since virus realms have no genetic relation to each other these three families are unrelated, so grouping them together via Baltimore groups when the lower taxa are united by genetic relation may misinform readers, especially since Baltimore classification isn't explained in the article.
ICTV taxonomy is the official system used, so I think before being promoted to GA it may be better to reorganize the sections to place the current lower taxa into the realms they belong to. If a realm is too long, then its kingdoms can be subsections. Orthornavirae may be long, so its phyla can be used for subsections. A section for "other viruses" can be created for viruses not assigned to a realm. I can rearrange the article to show what it would look like with the new structure. If this is done, then some parts of the text will have to be changed to deemphasize Baltimore groups and make greater mention of higher taxa. Velayinosu ( talk) 00:26, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Chidgk1 ( talk · contribs) 11:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
GA review – see
WP:WIAGA for criteria
Hello @ Enwebb: - I am glad you are explaining this important and topical subject. As I know almost nothing about it yet I am afraid I am going to be taking up your time with lots of naive questions. And if any of my suggestions do not make sense scientifically fell free to reject them but please explain why in layman's terms.
Hello @ Enwebb:. I hope you are well. Although the article is mostly OK I think there are a few places where it is still not clear enough for the general reader. I am happy to help with fixing the prose but I don't know enough to be able to do it all by myself. So I am putting this on hold for the moment. If I don't hear from you in the next few days I will ask the Bats Task Force for some expert help. Chidgk1 ( talk) 06:19, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello again @ Enwebb:. Thanks for making more improvements. As you can see prose is the only area which still needs fixing and (although the prose in some other sections would have to be further improved if you go for "featured" in future) I think only the lead is the vital last hurdle to get to "good article". Although we don't need to simplify it as far as an article on Simple English Wikipedia it is still too technical for the general reader. This is not just my opinion but would be shared by another reviewer I am sure.
Obviously because you are an expert and have worked so much on this article it is hard for you to read it as if you were a layman coming fresh to the subject. Therefore I have made an attempt at rewriting the lead. Could you have a look at the below to see whether I have got anything wrong or missed anything vital for a lead, and amend as you think necessary:
The bat virome is the set of viruses which infect bats. [note 1] Although bats host all types of virus, most of those identified as of 2020 [update] are single stranded RNA viruses in the Coronaviridae and Rhabdoviridae families.
Despite the abundance of viruses associated with bats, they rarely become ill from viral infections, and rabies is the only viral illness known to kill bats. Bat virology has been much researched, particularly bat immune response. Bats' immune systems differ from other mammals in their lack of several inflammasomes, which activate the body's inflammatory response, and they produce interferon less. Although they defend against viruses excess inflammation and interferon can damage the body. Preliminary evidence indicates bats are thus more tolerant of infection than other mammals.
Much research has centered on bats as a source of zoonotic viruses, which can cause disease in humans, and whether bats harbor more of these than other orders of mammals. As of 2020 [update], according to most recent studies, on average a species of bat will host no more zoonotic viruses than another species of mammal or bird. But there are more species of bats than any other order of mammal, bar rodents, and bats in total host more kinds of zoonotic viruses than other orders of mammal, except perhaps rodents. [1]
Some bat-borne viruses are considered important emerging viruses. [2] [3] These zoonotic viruses include the rabies virus, Marburg virus, Nipah virus, Hendra virus, SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2. [4] While transmission of rabies from bats to humans usually occurs via biting, most other zoonotic bat viruses are transmitted by direct contact with infected bat fluids like urine, guano, or saliva, or through contact with an infected, non-bat intermediate host. In some cases the intermediate host is known, for example MERS-CoV was transmitted to humans via camels. But how SARS-CoV-2, which causes coronavirus disease 2019, was first transmitted to humans is not yet certain, although the Sunda pangolin is one suspect. It has been speculated that bats may have a role in the ecology of the Ebola virus, though this is unconfirmed. There is no firm evidence that butchering or consuming bat meat can lead to viral transmission, though this has been speculated.
Good Article review progress box
|
Chidgk1 ( talk) 11:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Mollentze
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).An increasingly asked question is 'can we confidently link bats with emerging viruses?'. No, or not yet, is the qualified answer based on the evidence available.
MacKenzie
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).