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A fact from Barony of Akova appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 25 June 2013 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
There are different styles of formatting the text and I'm seeing a difference in some of the wording of the text, so I thought I'd start a summary here of proposed changes:
Name (new) —The name of the town is derived from the Latin word for water, for the many sources of water in the area.[1] During the
medieval period, the village was named "Akova" or "Matagrifon".[2] The Franks called it the castle of Mattegrifon, which meant stop[3] or kill lthe Greeks.[1][4]
Barony established (diff)—The barony of Akova was established during the distribution of lands of the Byzantine Empire, which happened after the conquest of
Constantinople during the
Fourth Crusade (1202-1204). It was one of twelve baronies established within the
Arcadia area of the
Peloponnese region.[1][5]
Walter's death (new)— A Walter of Rosières died childless about 1273.[1][4]
Quote box (new)—Within the principality of Achaea…"the most important barony in a military point of view, and the largest in extent, was that of Akova. This barony embraced the valley of the Ladon, and the district that still retains the name of Achoves. It protected the rich valley of the Alpheus and the plains of Elis from the attacks of the Sclavonians, who occupied the mountains to the north and upper valley of the Alphas, immediately to the east of the possessions of the baron of Akova."|author=—A History of Greece[7]
I'm a little fried right now, but I can take a look later and underline the differences in numbers 2 and 3. I couldn't think of what do to with the name info here, so I was thinking maybe its own section.--CaroleHenson(talk) 12:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)reply
1)the etymology from "aqua" seems very dubious and I wonder if it is really in the source of the Greek article. Antoine Bon writes that "the slavic etymology admitted as probable is not sure" and does not mention any other one (p.394). It seems hard to believe that the Greek name for a castle which bears another name in French (ie Mategriffon - Akova is not found in the French version of the
Chronicle of the Morea, only in the Greek one) could have a Latin origin, without serious sourcing. (note that the disputed question of the proposed Slavic etymology of many Peloponnesian toponyms is ultra sensitive in Greece...)--
Phso2 (
talk) 13:07, 25 November 2016 (UTC)reply
Hi
CaroleHenson, and thanks for your interest in this article. My comments on the proposed changes are as follows:
1) As
Phso2 commented, this is unlikely. The source is also very suspect. I have a long and sad experience with the Greek Wikipedia's often uncritical (over-)reliance on Greek encyclopaedias, and my default attitude is to distrust them as sources (unfortunately, the Greek WP itself is generally very unreliable, as many articles rely on blogs, tertiary sources, 19th-century works, etc.). In short, I would not include the possible Latin derivation of the name, unless another source came along. For the rest, it is already in the article.
2) The proposed changes are factually incorrect: neither the barony nor the very principality of Achaea were established at the Partitio, but independently by a band of Frankish Crusaders in 1205. And Akova was one of the 12 baronies of the entire principality, not of Arcadia.
3) As the article mentions, there is only Hopf's supposition about who was the "first" baron on the barony's establishment. The sources only mention Walter in ca. 1228, and that should be what we report as well. The rest of the info is also already in the article; furthermore, which of the lords of Akova actually built the castle is unknown, so linking it, even implicitly, with Walter, is incorrect.
4) Already mentioned in the article.
5) Finlay's opinion is interesting, and should be included, as he is an authority on Greek history. However for such a short article a quote box is overkill. I would simply quote these phrases at the end of the first paragraph, preceded by "According to the historian
George Finlay,...".
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please
join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Greek history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
A fact from Barony of Akova appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 25 June 2013 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
There are different styles of formatting the text and I'm seeing a difference in some of the wording of the text, so I thought I'd start a summary here of proposed changes:
Name (new) —The name of the town is derived from the Latin word for water, for the many sources of water in the area.[1] During the
medieval period, the village was named "Akova" or "Matagrifon".[2] The Franks called it the castle of Mattegrifon, which meant stop[3] or kill lthe Greeks.[1][4]
Barony established (diff)—The barony of Akova was established during the distribution of lands of the Byzantine Empire, which happened after the conquest of
Constantinople during the
Fourth Crusade (1202-1204). It was one of twelve baronies established within the
Arcadia area of the
Peloponnese region.[1][5]
Walter's death (new)— A Walter of Rosières died childless about 1273.[1][4]
Quote box (new)—Within the principality of Achaea…"the most important barony in a military point of view, and the largest in extent, was that of Akova. This barony embraced the valley of the Ladon, and the district that still retains the name of Achoves. It protected the rich valley of the Alpheus and the plains of Elis from the attacks of the Sclavonians, who occupied the mountains to the north and upper valley of the Alphas, immediately to the east of the possessions of the baron of Akova."|author=—A History of Greece[7]
I'm a little fried right now, but I can take a look later and underline the differences in numbers 2 and 3. I couldn't think of what do to with the name info here, so I was thinking maybe its own section.--CaroleHenson(talk) 12:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)reply
1)the etymology from "aqua" seems very dubious and I wonder if it is really in the source of the Greek article. Antoine Bon writes that "the slavic etymology admitted as probable is not sure" and does not mention any other one (p.394). It seems hard to believe that the Greek name for a castle which bears another name in French (ie Mategriffon - Akova is not found in the French version of the
Chronicle of the Morea, only in the Greek one) could have a Latin origin, without serious sourcing. (note that the disputed question of the proposed Slavic etymology of many Peloponnesian toponyms is ultra sensitive in Greece...)--
Phso2 (
talk) 13:07, 25 November 2016 (UTC)reply
Hi
CaroleHenson, and thanks for your interest in this article. My comments on the proposed changes are as follows:
1) As
Phso2 commented, this is unlikely. The source is also very suspect. I have a long and sad experience with the Greek Wikipedia's often uncritical (over-)reliance on Greek encyclopaedias, and my default attitude is to distrust them as sources (unfortunately, the Greek WP itself is generally very unreliable, as many articles rely on blogs, tertiary sources, 19th-century works, etc.). In short, I would not include the possible Latin derivation of the name, unless another source came along. For the rest, it is already in the article.
2) The proposed changes are factually incorrect: neither the barony nor the very principality of Achaea were established at the Partitio, but independently by a band of Frankish Crusaders in 1205. And Akova was one of the 12 baronies of the entire principality, not of Arcadia.
3) As the article mentions, there is only Hopf's supposition about who was the "first" baron on the barony's establishment. The sources only mention Walter in ca. 1228, and that should be what we report as well. The rest of the info is also already in the article; furthermore, which of the lords of Akova actually built the castle is unknown, so linking it, even implicitly, with Walter, is incorrect.
4) Already mentioned in the article.
5) Finlay's opinion is interesting, and should be included, as he is an authority on Greek history. However for such a short article a quote box is overkill. I would simply quote these phrases at the end of the first paragraph, preceded by "According to the historian
George Finlay,...".