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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2019 and 12 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Veroonikka99.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 15:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
This edit established the usage of the page as BC/AD. Kindly maintain it consistently, pending a new consensus to the contrary. (That said, only the very first date on the page needs to be labelled so that we know we're not talking about AH dating. The rest don't need a label at all.) — LlywelynII 01:46, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
The Barghawata unequivocally claimed Israelite descent, this claim is also supported by most (see below) scholars today. The claim that they were of Berber descent is a fringe view, at best some scholars consider them as Judeo-Berbers. ( talk) 07:12, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Some Berber tribes, like the Baragwata in northwest Africa, claimed descent from the Israelite of Simeon (Shimon). https://books.google.fr/books?id=keD9z1XWuNwC&pg=PA281
Al Bakri atribuye la denominación de Tarifa a Tarif ibn Salih al-Isra'ili, fundator de la herejía de los bargawatas en el Norte de Africa hacia al año 752. Este personaje se consideraba descendiente de Simeon, vastago de Jacob, hijo de Isaac. https://books.google.fr/books?id=wfLxgo41LioC&pg=PA129
The fact that the Barghawati ambassador himself claims this as their sacred genealogy, combined with the other names of their leaders such as Yunus (Jonah) and al-Yasa’, or Alisha’ (Elisha), certainly makes Slousch’s (1910) argument about the ‘Jewish connection’ seem more plausible. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13629380601099484?src=recsys&journalCode=fnas20
- TheseusHeLl ( talk) 07:27, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
@ TheseusHeLl:, if Afer Ephraimite continues their EoI is "outdated, unreliable, work of one scholar"-nonsense, contact an Admin. No use wasting your time with someone that refuses to get the point and is not here to build an encyclopedia. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 16:34, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
The source | Your misrepresentation | What the source says |
---|---|---|
Devout Heretics: The Barghawata in Maghribi Historiography | Ancestrally, Barghawata tribes claimed descent from Simeon son of Jacob son of Isaac. | p:51 "13. The fact that the Barghawati ambassador himself claims this as their sacred genealogy, combined with the other names of their leaders such as Yunus (Jonah) and al-Yasa’, or Alisha’ (Elisha), certainly makes Slousch’s (1910) argument about the ‘Jewish connection’ seem more plausible. However, this genealogy—precisely because it is a sacred genealogy—should be understood as a way of giving legitimacy to their line. Since the Jewish presence in that part of North Africa was so ancient and deeply rooted, we can understand the Barghawata’s familiarity with the names, and perhaps with some of the rituals of the Jewish residents, without postulating a genetic relationship between the beliefs of the Barghawata and those of Maghribi Jews." Here in this note the author is talking about p:42 " Tarif’s genealogy was believed to go back to Simeon, son of Jacob, son of Isaac 13" |
Histoire de Casablanca, des origines à 1914 | After the Arab conquest of North Africa, most African tribes abandoned Judaism for Islam. At the beginning of the 8th century (739-742), several Jewish chieftains formed a coalition led by Maysara al-Matghari in the westernmost part of North Africa, this coalition successfully defeated the Muslims and managed to form their own state on the Atlantic coast between Safi and Salé. | nothing in page 32. p:33 transl. "This Tariff is the father of Sâlih who is said to have created the doctrine of the Berghwâta. He himself had participated in the Kharejite revolt in the north of Morocco, alongside Maïsara el-Matghari, at the death of which he continued the fight in Tamesna. The chronology of events is moreover rather loose; El Bekri and Ibn Khaldoûn do not agree on the dates. there is also doubt about the origins of Tarîf; only Ibn Khaldoûn affirms it Berghwâti and Masmoudi; El Bekri says he is of Jewish descent and comes from Berbât, in the south of Spain (from where, according to him, the name of Berghwâta given later to the sectarians of Sâlih); he also reports that before entering Tamesna, "he exercised royal power among the Zenata and Zouagha". |
Hébræo-Phéniciens et Judéo-Berbères: introduction à l'histoire des Juifs et du judaisme en Afrique | OUTDATED (1908) | OUTDATED (1908) |
- TheseusHeLl ( talk) 23:26, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:41, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2019 and 12 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Veroonikka99.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 15:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
This edit established the usage of the page as BC/AD. Kindly maintain it consistently, pending a new consensus to the contrary. (That said, only the very first date on the page needs to be labelled so that we know we're not talking about AH dating. The rest don't need a label at all.) — LlywelynII 01:46, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
The Barghawata unequivocally claimed Israelite descent, this claim is also supported by most (see below) scholars today. The claim that they were of Berber descent is a fringe view, at best some scholars consider them as Judeo-Berbers. ( talk) 07:12, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Some Berber tribes, like the Baragwata in northwest Africa, claimed descent from the Israelite of Simeon (Shimon). https://books.google.fr/books?id=keD9z1XWuNwC&pg=PA281
Al Bakri atribuye la denominación de Tarifa a Tarif ibn Salih al-Isra'ili, fundator de la herejía de los bargawatas en el Norte de Africa hacia al año 752. Este personaje se consideraba descendiente de Simeon, vastago de Jacob, hijo de Isaac. https://books.google.fr/books?id=wfLxgo41LioC&pg=PA129
The fact that the Barghawati ambassador himself claims this as their sacred genealogy, combined with the other names of their leaders such as Yunus (Jonah) and al-Yasa’, or Alisha’ (Elisha), certainly makes Slousch’s (1910) argument about the ‘Jewish connection’ seem more plausible. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13629380601099484?src=recsys&journalCode=fnas20
- TheseusHeLl ( talk) 07:27, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
@ TheseusHeLl:, if Afer Ephraimite continues their EoI is "outdated, unreliable, work of one scholar"-nonsense, contact an Admin. No use wasting your time with someone that refuses to get the point and is not here to build an encyclopedia. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 16:34, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
The source | Your misrepresentation | What the source says |
---|---|---|
Devout Heretics: The Barghawata in Maghribi Historiography | Ancestrally, Barghawata tribes claimed descent from Simeon son of Jacob son of Isaac. | p:51 "13. The fact that the Barghawati ambassador himself claims this as their sacred genealogy, combined with the other names of their leaders such as Yunus (Jonah) and al-Yasa’, or Alisha’ (Elisha), certainly makes Slousch’s (1910) argument about the ‘Jewish connection’ seem more plausible. However, this genealogy—precisely because it is a sacred genealogy—should be understood as a way of giving legitimacy to their line. Since the Jewish presence in that part of North Africa was so ancient and deeply rooted, we can understand the Barghawata’s familiarity with the names, and perhaps with some of the rituals of the Jewish residents, without postulating a genetic relationship between the beliefs of the Barghawata and those of Maghribi Jews." Here in this note the author is talking about p:42 " Tarif’s genealogy was believed to go back to Simeon, son of Jacob, son of Isaac 13" |
Histoire de Casablanca, des origines à 1914 | After the Arab conquest of North Africa, most African tribes abandoned Judaism for Islam. At the beginning of the 8th century (739-742), several Jewish chieftains formed a coalition led by Maysara al-Matghari in the westernmost part of North Africa, this coalition successfully defeated the Muslims and managed to form their own state on the Atlantic coast between Safi and Salé. | nothing in page 32. p:33 transl. "This Tariff is the father of Sâlih who is said to have created the doctrine of the Berghwâta. He himself had participated in the Kharejite revolt in the north of Morocco, alongside Maïsara el-Matghari, at the death of which he continued the fight in Tamesna. The chronology of events is moreover rather loose; El Bekri and Ibn Khaldoûn do not agree on the dates. there is also doubt about the origins of Tarîf; only Ibn Khaldoûn affirms it Berghwâti and Masmoudi; El Bekri says he is of Jewish descent and comes from Berbât, in the south of Spain (from where, according to him, the name of Berghwâta given later to the sectarians of Sâlih); he also reports that before entering Tamesna, "he exercised royal power among the Zenata and Zouagha". |
Hébræo-Phéniciens et Judéo-Berbères: introduction à l'histoire des Juifs et du judaisme en Afrique | OUTDATED (1908) | OUTDATED (1908) |
- TheseusHeLl ( talk) 23:26, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:41, 27 August 2021 (UTC)