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Archive 1 |
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barbenheimer until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.
InfiniteNexus ( talk) 11:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
This message also appears on the talk page for Oppenheimer
A section in the marketing/release section should be added for the film's viral "Barbenheimer" phenomenon. At one time it was just silly memes, but it has now turned in to a legitimate talking point about the film's release, with Barbie director Greta Gerwig and star Margot Robbie both commenting and promoting the trend, as well as actor Tom Cruise. It is a part of the film's release undoubtedly, there is no way around it. I will post my now-deleted section below, please check my references and sources for authenticity. BakedintheHole ( talk) 14:22, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
References
I've checked the latest news about the potential ban of Barbie in the Philippines, and I've seen their MTRCB body approve the movie for theatrical release. Here's the news article proving it. (It turns out the link stopped working as soon as I added it in this talk section. Oh well... [a])
One thing I don't know is how to add it in this Wikipedia article (mainly because I'm doing this in a mobile browser.) Could someone do this for me? Thanks in advance! green@grenier ~$ sign --now;
sudo systemctl enable wptalk
12:07, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
>Sasha inspires a depressed Barbie by acknowledging the inherent contradictions of American femininity.
This is incorrect. Gloria (the mother) gives this speech. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.83.70.31 ( talk) 01:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
> The Barbies also realize the error of their previous societal system, and decide to make some changes in Barbieland, including better treatment for the Kens and all outcast dolls.
This is incorrect. There's no errors in Barbieland. Feminist Babrie won and you're just incels with 0 kenergy. Female superiority was restored above all Kens, gayer Allan and outcast ugly dolls. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.235.178.68 ( talk) 16:27, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
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change “positive reviews” to “critical acclaim” 2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66 ( talk) 18:28, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
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Simu Liu and Michael Cera should be included in the last sentence of the 1st paragraph regarding the ensemble cast. They should also be included in the list of people starring in the movie (right after the “Produced by” section). They have both appeared in interviews and preview clips for the movie and their roles are integral to the storyline of the movie. 74.105.174.222 ( talk) 10:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
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please correct various typos of “Kriez” to “Kreiz” in Production section 2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66 ( talk) 13:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
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Spelling correction: under Production > Writing, in fourth paragraph of this section, please change "tellng" to "telling". Thank you! Kyrichips ( talk) 21:30, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
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8th highest grossing movie in 2023 worldwide Dkfkvj ( talk) 04:09, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
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As of July 27, 2023, the highest grossing markets were the United Kingdom ($45.4 million), Mexico ($33.4 million), Brazil ($27.3 million), Australia ($20.3 million) and China ($18 million). [1] Najar hsinak ( talk) 06:26, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
References
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Please change “an matriarchal society” to “a matriarchal society” in the first sentence of the “Plot” section. The Incendiary ( talk) 23:01, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
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change seventh-highest grossing movie of 2023 in synopsis to third-highest grossing movie of 2023 Bbisediting ( talk) 16:48, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
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I need to update the rotten tomatoes rating for the movie. SaulGoodman6969 ( talk) 01:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
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Please change Bord to Ford under "Philosophy" subsection of "Themes and Analysis." Author's name is Lucy Ford, not Lucy Word. [1]
Barbie has been characterized as exploring themes of existentialism.[226][227][228] Lucy Bord of GQ wrote that the film "ruminates on the very idea of what makes us human, the idea of 'the other', whether there's truly such a thing as autonomy or if we're all simply pawns to be picked up and disposed of when we are no longer useful". Esnowmann ( talk) 13:59, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
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Under Reception#Critical response section: Chinese newspaper The Paper praised the film's humor and criticism of patriarchy, qualifying that the plot was too often pushed forward through slogans rather than feeling earned.
Chinese newspaper ThePaper praised the film's humor and criticism of patriarchy, qualifying that its themes were too-often advanced by slogans rather than the experiences of its characters. [1]The Google-translated text I used is embedded in the citation. Xan747 ( talk) 18:48, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Under Themes and analysis#Philosophy, to the end: The Paper, a Chinese publication, compared Barbie's sudden awareness of death to the moment when Siddhartha Gautama left the palace of his birth and first learned of suffering and death, which eventually led to his enlightenment.
References
[...] this kind of movie does not impress people through the plot or the specific experience of the characters. It rarely talks about our personal experience, but flushes our concepts through slogan-style preaching.
If you make an inaccurate analogy, this moment is very similar to the moment when Prince Siddhartha walked out of the palace where he had no worries about food and clothing, and saw the spiritual revolution moment of birth, old age, sickness and death for the first time.
Source: https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_23994020 Luiysia ( talk) 18:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
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box office = 802 million SavageMandrill ( talk) 13:08, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
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In the Review and Analysis section there is reference to an author in GQ magazine by the name of "Ford". After the quote from the article her name is misspelled as "Bord". It needs to be corrected to read as "Ford". 70.24.69.193 ( talk) 05:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
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In the "Feminism" section, change "Talia Lakrtiz" to "Talia Lakritz" and "Business Insider" to "Insider." Here is my author page to prove both of these changes: https://www.insider.com/author/talia-lakritz. Thanks! Tlakritz ( talk) 15:15, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Barbillion has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 18 § Barbillion until a consensus is reached.
Qwerfjkl
talk
17:56, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
How are you deciding who is Ken 1, Ken 2, Ken 3? 2001:8F8:172B:41ED:ACF0:D8FC:8AF5:B5CF ( talk) 16:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
The movie for average audience has a controversial rating currently around 2.6/5.0 on google. I think it should be mentioned. Most assumingly due to men giving large amount of 1 stars reviews, if someone felt they could reasearch write more about it. 2600:1014:B13D:8D6B:AD5B:DB8A:5974:2C7D ( talk) 01:18, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
The edit that inserted the plot added plain text, as in a copy-paste from some website. I suspect the plot being sourced in a press release by Warner Bros. because it has been used a lot since all over the Net. Thanks Ruthven ( msg) 14:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
The “feminism” section was renamed to “ideology,” but the section only addresses feminist ideology and no other kinds of ideology (economic, religious, etc). It would make sense to rename it to “feminism” or “feminist theory” or something more relevant, or to add a broader range of ideologies covered by the themes of the movie. Catboy69 ( talk) 03:58, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
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In the lead, please change “positive reviews” to “widespread acclaim” or “critical acclaim” and mention “exceeding box office expectations, with the film being the highest grossing opening weekend by a woman.” [1] [2] [3]
This film certainly has “critical acclaimed” based upon several sources. Because of the backlash, I’ve noticed certain ‘editors’ are WP:Gaming the page simply because they want to waterdown the film’s well-reported success.
The sources included more than satisfy WP:RS and some editors are that the sources reporting on this (saying the film received “acclaim”) are not enough, with them dishonestly suggesting that there is some disagreement among the press when there is not, as there is only a disagreement among zealous editors! That is wiki WP:OR last I checked.
Can we please fix this and stop letting this page become so politicized?!?! It’s just a movie! This kind of unfair debate isn’t taking place on other film pages like the Mission Impossible movie, tbh. We need to stop giving WP:Undue weight to these political editors and their slanted POV.
Please fix this someone? Thanks! Themaninblack2023 ( talk) 00:37, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
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Paper9oll (
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10:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)References
It is true that Mattel executives denied Barbie being a feminist film in attempt to avoid another boycott despite the contrary words from the cast and director, and there are multiple official and reliable sources that confirm that like the ones previously presented in the Marketing section. So why this fact should not be included in the article and gets deemed "disruptive editing" despite no violation made even to the point of blocking the article even for autoconfirmed users? (Un)Lucky Duke ( talk) 13:35, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
Per IP above, there is an error in the plot summary. Please change "Sasha inspires a depressed Barbie..." to "Gloria inspires a depressed Barbie...". Many thanks 86.133.52.213 ( talk) 21:33, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
The word "acclaim" only appears in the lead section and is not supported by the Metacritic source below in the article itself.
We use Metacritic to determine critical acclaim. If we look at other film pages where the lead section says that the film received "critical acclaim": /info/en/?search=Killers_of_the_Flower_Moon_(film) /info/en/?search=Oppenheimer_(film)
In both cases, CTRL+F'ing for "acclaim" shows two results: one in the lead section ("critical acclaim"), and one below in the article that acts as the source for that lead section claim ("Metacritic [...], indicating "universal acclaim").
Metacritic's consensus is the source to use in this situation because it is the simplest and provides a directly quotable source "universal acclaim". In comparison, Rotten Tomatoes leaves too much up to subjective speculation, as there is no way to reliably determine at which % a Rotten Tomatoes score becomes "acclaim" as opposed to just "positive". Z8n ( talk) 17:22, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Hello all, I have been trying to add to the Plot that after Ken's return, the Barbies have been brainwashed, but
Ertonien is simply removing it (and many other content) without any explanation whatsoever. I've even added a generally reliable source,
The Guardian, with a quote (Before you can say “Simone de Beauvoir”, he’s instituted a full-blown patriarchy with all the once-empowered Barbies brainwashed into submissive, beer-serving pleasure slaves
) and Ertonien also removed this without any explanation. I have got more reliable sources like
NBC News (the Kens have taken over and brainwashed the rest of the Barbies
),
Washington Post (Ken leads the rest on a misguided quest for power and respect by diminishing the rights of the Barbies, who have been brainwashed into servitude
), and an
associate professor of gender (deprogramming the brainwashed Barbies and turning the Kens against each other
) and would like to seek editors' opinions. Even the film itself calls it brainwashing, as per another
Guardian article: "He took your home; he brainwashed your friends; he wants to control the government".
starship
.paint (
exalt)
13:43, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
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In the marketing section, regarding the French poster, it currently says "Elle peut tout faire. Lui, c'est juste Ken.", which literally translates to "She can do everything. He's just Ken."
It should read: "which literally translates to "She can do everything. It's just Ken."" (or "It is just Ken")
C'est does not translate to he is, it translates to it is (He would be "Il", like she is "Elle"). This is important to this use (and is important to the context of the section), because using "c'est" about a person is unusual, and specifically derogatory, indicating they are not a person, but an object. This makes the likelihood that it was done intentionally much greater, since they chose not to use the more appropriate "Il" when referring to a male person. Mfdavies ( talk) 23:38, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
I’m opening this talk page. To ask to add July 19th to list of premiere dates. Barbie movie itself says it will be released internationally on July 19 and nationwide July 21st. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20230605120136/https://www.barbie-themovie.net/trailer/ Jjjjfghh ( talk) 02:54, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
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This is a request to include the online trend that surrounds the Barbie Movies current box office phenomenon, in the Release section of the Barbie Movie Page.
This information should surround how many of the fans of the movie during its release where in anticipation over the movie earning one billion in the box office, with various internet memes and discourse happening through various social media platforms, such as Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr and Instagram, where the #barbillion is currently trending.
This has been reported in various news outlets, such as https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/1-barbillion-soon-barbie-fans-go-berserk-as-margot-robbies-film-crosses-500-million-worldwide/ar-AA1etQDA and https://headtopics.com/us/is-the-barbie-movie-going-to-break-the-1-billion-barrier-we-assess-its-chances-of-making-barbilli-41609073 VeryBlankPages ( talk) 21:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
I think the movie has talks about a sequel, so I guess this is necessary for the page. Mattgelo ( talk) 23:45, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
This section seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill. 172.79.200.224 ( talk) 03:54, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Variety reported that the film's release in the Middle East was delayed, likely due to the "alleged LGBTQ-related narration and dialogue". But can that article be trusted at all? I'm asking because I'm about to add a paragraph based on that source, and that depends on your answer. JSH-alive/ talk/ cont/ mail 04:39, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
An update: The film is set to be released in the Middle East on 10 August. We don't know if WB has agreed to cut the film as suggested by the censors there. JSH-alive/ talk/ cont/ mail 12:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
I think calling the movie "feminist" is reductive. The movie doesn't necessarily endorse Barbieland as some "utopia for women". It also shows the negative ways a stereotypical brand of feminism can be damaging to both genders. It's shown through Barbie and Ken's arcs. It could be argued the movie's more humanist. talk 11:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
That strikes me as a possibly insensitive term for a character (Weird Barbie) whose appearance has changed due to injury or whatever. Not sure what the better term would be (or how relevant Weird Barbie's appearance is, since I actually haven't seen the film), so I'll leave this note here rather than making the edit myself. Jcejhay ( talk) 12:25, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
Her owner quite literally abused her by drawing on her face, cutting her hair and bending her limbs in odd positions. Because of this, her personality and physical appearance changed. Instead of supporting Weird Barbie, the Barbies cast her out. At one point, Weird Barbie was considered the most beautiful of them all.From the first reference we learn that she is considered the local wise woman.
Weird Barbie, a wise but disfigured outcast
Weird Barbie--who, despite being wise, has been outcast due to personality traits and physical appearances the other Barbies consider unattractive--But that's getting pretty wordy. I too will simply leave this note as food for thought without making an edit. Xan747 ( talk) 17:05, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
A group of outcasts live apart from the other Barbies, many of them being discontinued models. Among them is Weird Barbie, whose owner in the real world drew lines on her face, chopped her hair, and bent her limbs into unnatural positions--all of which changed her appearance and personality in ways the other Barbies consider unattractive.
Weird Barbie, whom the other Barbies often seek out for her wisdom and knowledge of secrets, tells her that to cure her affliction, she must travel into the real world and find the child playing with her.
I have now made revisions based on @ Xan747's suggestions. Jcejhay ( talk) 11:49, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
− | A group of | + | A group of mainly discontinued models live as outcasts. Among them is Weird Barbie; once considered the most beautiful, her owner marked her face, chopped her hair, and unnaturally bent her limbs, also changing her personality.
[...]
Weird Barbie, often sought for her wisdom, tells her to find the child playing with her in the real world. |
"Arriving at Venice Beach, the two get up to multiple antics and are arrested after Barbie punches a man groping her, alarming the Mattel CEO, who orders their capture." Does the "Barbie punches a man groping her" part really has to be in the sentence? I already explained this to @ John315: if it says "the two get up to multiple antics", that includes everything that happened to them (the groping, the arrest, and the clothes stealing). Needless to emphasize the groping part just to take a stand on Barbie's sexual harassment (not to mention they were arrested twice, once for the punching, once for the stealing). Taking a stand on a certain matter is not the job of a movie plot. The point of the sentence is that they cause a series of antics, which alarms the Mattel CEO, who orders their capture. There's no need to detaling what are those antics. That's my opinon. Ertonien ( talk) 23:17, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi fellow editors, I'd like discuss a problem that is constantly repeated in the Plot section. Despite the warning at the top of the section that clearly states "consider avoiding using clauses that just repeat the meaning of the main clause with synonyms", some editors just choose to ignore it. I repeatedly find new sentences making that same mistake.
The latest one is "She becomes depressed and feels like she's not as beautiful and pretty as before as Gloria and Sasha start to drive away, but they turn back and Gloria gives an inspirational speech about society's conflicting expectations of women, telling Barbie that she's pretty and beautiful in her own way and restoring her self-confidence." Not only that this sentence is way too long but it repeats the pretty and beautiful words two times, and these words are synonyms to each other anyway.
Hereby, I'd like to ask every editor to READ THAT WARNING AT THE TOP OF SECTION before creating these kind of sentences. It makes other editor's job real hard to always have to deal with the same problem due to other's inattentiveness. Ertonien ( talk) 10:38, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
− | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are temporarily | + | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are temporarily arrested after Barbie punches a man groping her. The incident alarms the [[Mattel]] CEO, who orders their recapture. |
is being kicked around on my talkpage as part of a much larger discussion about the Plot section between myself and @ Ertonien. It's clearly time to get @ John315 and others involved here.
IMO, one is not "temporarily arrested"; an arrest is the *process* of being taken into custody, which is a more involved and formal process than simply being detained. In this
diff I rewrote it as: Arriving at
Venice Beach, the two are arrested after Barbie punches a man groping her. They escape, alarming the
Mattel CEO, who orders their recapture.
Ertonien rejected that because he says the movie doesn't show that they escaped, and because the Mattel CEO was alarmed by the entire incident, not just that they had regained their freedom (by whatever means). However, now that John315 says in his
edit summary, Restored "arrested" -- there are police mugshots, etc. "Detained" sounds less serious than "arrested", but they were arrested."
I think we definitely need to use the word "arrested", and somehow indicate they were only held in custody for a short period of time.
Xan747
✈️
🧑✈️
18:16, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
In the movie, Barbie and Ken didn't formally escaped from the police because they were arrested two times, and each times there was a cut beetwen scenes followed by them walking on the streets freely, which implies that they were not kept in for long.
− | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are | + | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are arrested but quickly released after Barbie punches a man groping her. Alarmed, the [[Mattel]] CEO, orders their recapture. |
− | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are arrested | + | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are arrested after Barbie punches a man groping her, but quickly released. |
This war has been going on between 50.229.142.226 and JSH-alive:
− | Barbie, who remains unsure of her own purpose and identity, meets with the spirit of | + | Barbie, who remains unsure of her own purpose and identity, meets with the spirit of Mattel co-founder [[Ruth Handler]] |
Perhaps others are involved too. Whatever the case, I believe it is JSH who embedded this comment in the article: Do NOT label Ruth Handler as the 'inventor' of Barbie (or similar). I know Ruth in the film calls herself as such, but if you are well interested in the history of toy industry, you will realize that this is technically not right. See also:
Bild Lilli doll.
That is an interesting bit of history, which our main Barbie article covers in some detail, as does Ruth Handler's article. Thing is, both articles consistently refer to Handler as the inventor of Barbie, I presume because that's how virtually every RS describes her. That's how every review of the movie I've seen refers to her. And as JSH does say, that's how the movie itself refers to her.
We go by the sources, so I will revert JSH's edit accordingly and modify the embedded comment to refer to this talk section. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 17:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
As part of the movie’s extensive marketing campaign, another brand you should add to the list is “ Save the Children.” This organization is significant because they are a 100+ year old humanitarian nonprofit, and their collaboration with Barbie/Mattel/Warner Bros helped drive donations and support. 2601:14D:100:9390:807E:FDA7:75DD:786E ( talk) 05:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
The sources capitalize the "al" in Lafi's name, but Wikipeida's MoS says that "al" should "always [be] written in lower case". I believe it should be lowercased, but I'm just making sure if that's the case. FunLater ( talk) 19:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
Update: Heads up. Barbie will soon become the highest grossing hit of the year, surpassing the Mario Bros movie. https://fortune.com/2023/08/27/barbie-mario-gran-turismo-box-office-movies/amp/ It also is Warner Bros. most profitable film to date. 96.93.193.114 ( talk) 18:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Where do the descriptive names for the Kens in the cast listing (Tourist Ken/Basketball Ken/Artist Ken/Stereotypical Ken) come from? Lemongrass2013 ( talk) 22:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
I have had several edits undone after updating this article to show that it is at the very least a UK co-production, even when providing reputable sources. Despite this, there are no sources in the article to say it is an American production, and it is ignorant to assume it is by default. Mike Allen is the latest user to do this, claiming there are no reputable sources that say this is a UK production, yet there are no reputable sources stating this is an American production either.
Let's take a look at the facts which support this being at least a UK co-production:
You cannot give any weight to the nationalities of cast and crew and make assumptions.
What is the established consensus on wikipedia for establishing a country of origin for a film? If there is none, then there is just as much right to remove any unsourced edits claiming this is an American film as there is for removing ones claiming UK. FrannyWannyWoo ( talk) 03:40, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Very many film WP articles give (ticket record) figures that have not been adjusted for inflation; they are therefore pretty meaningless. Could you please clarify if this is the case with Barbie? If not adjusted, please remove the figures. Anna ( talk) 00:07, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Universal and Warner Bros. co–produced the film. 23.245.47.124 ( talk) 02:04, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
As it is widely known, Barbie's full name is "Barbara Millicent Roberts" ever since (as Ken is Kenneth Carson). As the movie sticks very close to the Barbie canon and doesn't mess with facts I was wondering if there's information about why they specifically chose to not use Barbie's "real" fictional name. (I am referring to the last scene where she's at her doctor's appointment.) I would appreciate any context - thank you! -- Glamourqueen ( talk) 16:03, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Would it be acceptable to make a brief mention somewhere about the backlash the film has received from some conservative/right-wing audiences, as there are numerous reliable sources that have reported on it? Granted, there's usually at least one film or show every year that irks certain right-leaning crowds but, obviously helped in part by the film's popularity, this is one outlier by attracting notable attention. Wikibenboy94 ( talk) 17:05, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
There's a tag proposing a fork of the Accolades section. I support this idea. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:56, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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Please add Barbenheimer to See Also. 31.44.227.148 ( talk) 23:59, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
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Archive 1 |
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barbenheimer until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.
InfiniteNexus ( talk) 11:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
This message also appears on the talk page for Oppenheimer
A section in the marketing/release section should be added for the film's viral "Barbenheimer" phenomenon. At one time it was just silly memes, but it has now turned in to a legitimate talking point about the film's release, with Barbie director Greta Gerwig and star Margot Robbie both commenting and promoting the trend, as well as actor Tom Cruise. It is a part of the film's release undoubtedly, there is no way around it. I will post my now-deleted section below, please check my references and sources for authenticity. BakedintheHole ( talk) 14:22, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
References
I've checked the latest news about the potential ban of Barbie in the Philippines, and I've seen their MTRCB body approve the movie for theatrical release. Here's the news article proving it. (It turns out the link stopped working as soon as I added it in this talk section. Oh well... [a])
One thing I don't know is how to add it in this Wikipedia article (mainly because I'm doing this in a mobile browser.) Could someone do this for me? Thanks in advance! green@grenier ~$ sign --now;
sudo systemctl enable wptalk
12:07, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
>Sasha inspires a depressed Barbie by acknowledging the inherent contradictions of American femininity.
This is incorrect. Gloria (the mother) gives this speech. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.83.70.31 ( talk) 01:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
> The Barbies also realize the error of their previous societal system, and decide to make some changes in Barbieland, including better treatment for the Kens and all outcast dolls.
This is incorrect. There's no errors in Barbieland. Feminist Babrie won and you're just incels with 0 kenergy. Female superiority was restored above all Kens, gayer Allan and outcast ugly dolls. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.235.178.68 ( talk) 16:27, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
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change “positive reviews” to “critical acclaim” 2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66 ( talk) 18:28, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
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Simu Liu and Michael Cera should be included in the last sentence of the 1st paragraph regarding the ensemble cast. They should also be included in the list of people starring in the movie (right after the “Produced by” section). They have both appeared in interviews and preview clips for the movie and their roles are integral to the storyline of the movie. 74.105.174.222 ( talk) 10:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
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please correct various typos of “Kriez” to “Kreiz” in Production section 2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66 ( talk) 13:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
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Spelling correction: under Production > Writing, in fourth paragraph of this section, please change "tellng" to "telling". Thank you! Kyrichips ( talk) 21:30, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
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8th highest grossing movie in 2023 worldwide Dkfkvj ( talk) 04:09, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
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As of July 27, 2023, the highest grossing markets were the United Kingdom ($45.4 million), Mexico ($33.4 million), Brazil ($27.3 million), Australia ($20.3 million) and China ($18 million). [1] Najar hsinak ( talk) 06:26, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
References
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Please change “an matriarchal society” to “a matriarchal society” in the first sentence of the “Plot” section. The Incendiary ( talk) 23:01, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
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change seventh-highest grossing movie of 2023 in synopsis to third-highest grossing movie of 2023 Bbisediting ( talk) 16:48, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
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I need to update the rotten tomatoes rating for the movie. SaulGoodman6969 ( talk) 01:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
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Please change Bord to Ford under "Philosophy" subsection of "Themes and Analysis." Author's name is Lucy Ford, not Lucy Word. [1]
Barbie has been characterized as exploring themes of existentialism.[226][227][228] Lucy Bord of GQ wrote that the film "ruminates on the very idea of what makes us human, the idea of 'the other', whether there's truly such a thing as autonomy or if we're all simply pawns to be picked up and disposed of when we are no longer useful". Esnowmann ( talk) 13:59, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
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Under Reception#Critical response section: Chinese newspaper The Paper praised the film's humor and criticism of patriarchy, qualifying that the plot was too often pushed forward through slogans rather than feeling earned.
Chinese newspaper ThePaper praised the film's humor and criticism of patriarchy, qualifying that its themes were too-often advanced by slogans rather than the experiences of its characters. [1]The Google-translated text I used is embedded in the citation. Xan747 ( talk) 18:48, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Under Themes and analysis#Philosophy, to the end: The Paper, a Chinese publication, compared Barbie's sudden awareness of death to the moment when Siddhartha Gautama left the palace of his birth and first learned of suffering and death, which eventually led to his enlightenment.
References
[...] this kind of movie does not impress people through the plot or the specific experience of the characters. It rarely talks about our personal experience, but flushes our concepts through slogan-style preaching.
If you make an inaccurate analogy, this moment is very similar to the moment when Prince Siddhartha walked out of the palace where he had no worries about food and clothing, and saw the spiritual revolution moment of birth, old age, sickness and death for the first time.
Source: https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_23994020 Luiysia ( talk) 18:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
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box office = 802 million SavageMandrill ( talk) 13:08, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
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In the Review and Analysis section there is reference to an author in GQ magazine by the name of "Ford". After the quote from the article her name is misspelled as "Bord". It needs to be corrected to read as "Ford". 70.24.69.193 ( talk) 05:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
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In the "Feminism" section, change "Talia Lakrtiz" to "Talia Lakritz" and "Business Insider" to "Insider." Here is my author page to prove both of these changes: https://www.insider.com/author/talia-lakritz. Thanks! Tlakritz ( talk) 15:15, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Barbillion has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 18 § Barbillion until a consensus is reached.
Qwerfjkl
talk
17:56, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
How are you deciding who is Ken 1, Ken 2, Ken 3? 2001:8F8:172B:41ED:ACF0:D8FC:8AF5:B5CF ( talk) 16:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
The movie for average audience has a controversial rating currently around 2.6/5.0 on google. I think it should be mentioned. Most assumingly due to men giving large amount of 1 stars reviews, if someone felt they could reasearch write more about it. 2600:1014:B13D:8D6B:AD5B:DB8A:5974:2C7D ( talk) 01:18, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
The edit that inserted the plot added plain text, as in a copy-paste from some website. I suspect the plot being sourced in a press release by Warner Bros. because it has been used a lot since all over the Net. Thanks Ruthven ( msg) 14:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
The “feminism” section was renamed to “ideology,” but the section only addresses feminist ideology and no other kinds of ideology (economic, religious, etc). It would make sense to rename it to “feminism” or “feminist theory” or something more relevant, or to add a broader range of ideologies covered by the themes of the movie. Catboy69 ( talk) 03:58, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
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In the lead, please change “positive reviews” to “widespread acclaim” or “critical acclaim” and mention “exceeding box office expectations, with the film being the highest grossing opening weekend by a woman.” [1] [2] [3]
This film certainly has “critical acclaimed” based upon several sources. Because of the backlash, I’ve noticed certain ‘editors’ are WP:Gaming the page simply because they want to waterdown the film’s well-reported success.
The sources included more than satisfy WP:RS and some editors are that the sources reporting on this (saying the film received “acclaim”) are not enough, with them dishonestly suggesting that there is some disagreement among the press when there is not, as there is only a disagreement among zealous editors! That is wiki WP:OR last I checked.
Can we please fix this and stop letting this page become so politicized?!?! It’s just a movie! This kind of unfair debate isn’t taking place on other film pages like the Mission Impossible movie, tbh. We need to stop giving WP:Undue weight to these political editors and their slanted POV.
Please fix this someone? Thanks! Themaninblack2023 ( talk) 00:37, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
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Paper9oll (
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10:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)References
It is true that Mattel executives denied Barbie being a feminist film in attempt to avoid another boycott despite the contrary words from the cast and director, and there are multiple official and reliable sources that confirm that like the ones previously presented in the Marketing section. So why this fact should not be included in the article and gets deemed "disruptive editing" despite no violation made even to the point of blocking the article even for autoconfirmed users? (Un)Lucky Duke ( talk) 13:35, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
Per IP above, there is an error in the plot summary. Please change "Sasha inspires a depressed Barbie..." to "Gloria inspires a depressed Barbie...". Many thanks 86.133.52.213 ( talk) 21:33, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
The word "acclaim" only appears in the lead section and is not supported by the Metacritic source below in the article itself.
We use Metacritic to determine critical acclaim. If we look at other film pages where the lead section says that the film received "critical acclaim": /info/en/?search=Killers_of_the_Flower_Moon_(film) /info/en/?search=Oppenheimer_(film)
In both cases, CTRL+F'ing for "acclaim" shows two results: one in the lead section ("critical acclaim"), and one below in the article that acts as the source for that lead section claim ("Metacritic [...], indicating "universal acclaim").
Metacritic's consensus is the source to use in this situation because it is the simplest and provides a directly quotable source "universal acclaim". In comparison, Rotten Tomatoes leaves too much up to subjective speculation, as there is no way to reliably determine at which % a Rotten Tomatoes score becomes "acclaim" as opposed to just "positive". Z8n ( talk) 17:22, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Hello all, I have been trying to add to the Plot that after Ken's return, the Barbies have been brainwashed, but
Ertonien is simply removing it (and many other content) without any explanation whatsoever. I've even added a generally reliable source,
The Guardian, with a quote (Before you can say “Simone de Beauvoir”, he’s instituted a full-blown patriarchy with all the once-empowered Barbies brainwashed into submissive, beer-serving pleasure slaves
) and Ertonien also removed this without any explanation. I have got more reliable sources like
NBC News (the Kens have taken over and brainwashed the rest of the Barbies
),
Washington Post (Ken leads the rest on a misguided quest for power and respect by diminishing the rights of the Barbies, who have been brainwashed into servitude
), and an
associate professor of gender (deprogramming the brainwashed Barbies and turning the Kens against each other
) and would like to seek editors' opinions. Even the film itself calls it brainwashing, as per another
Guardian article: "He took your home; he brainwashed your friends; he wants to control the government".
starship
.paint (
exalt)
13:43, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
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In the marketing section, regarding the French poster, it currently says "Elle peut tout faire. Lui, c'est juste Ken.", which literally translates to "She can do everything. He's just Ken."
It should read: "which literally translates to "She can do everything. It's just Ken."" (or "It is just Ken")
C'est does not translate to he is, it translates to it is (He would be "Il", like she is "Elle"). This is important to this use (and is important to the context of the section), because using "c'est" about a person is unusual, and specifically derogatory, indicating they are not a person, but an object. This makes the likelihood that it was done intentionally much greater, since they chose not to use the more appropriate "Il" when referring to a male person. Mfdavies ( talk) 23:38, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
I’m opening this talk page. To ask to add July 19th to list of premiere dates. Barbie movie itself says it will be released internationally on July 19 and nationwide July 21st. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20230605120136/https://www.barbie-themovie.net/trailer/ Jjjjfghh ( talk) 02:54, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
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This is a request to include the online trend that surrounds the Barbie Movies current box office phenomenon, in the Release section of the Barbie Movie Page.
This information should surround how many of the fans of the movie during its release where in anticipation over the movie earning one billion in the box office, with various internet memes and discourse happening through various social media platforms, such as Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr and Instagram, where the #barbillion is currently trending.
This has been reported in various news outlets, such as https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/1-barbillion-soon-barbie-fans-go-berserk-as-margot-robbies-film-crosses-500-million-worldwide/ar-AA1etQDA and https://headtopics.com/us/is-the-barbie-movie-going-to-break-the-1-billion-barrier-we-assess-its-chances-of-making-barbilli-41609073 VeryBlankPages ( talk) 21:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
I think the movie has talks about a sequel, so I guess this is necessary for the page. Mattgelo ( talk) 23:45, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
This section seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill. 172.79.200.224 ( talk) 03:54, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Variety reported that the film's release in the Middle East was delayed, likely due to the "alleged LGBTQ-related narration and dialogue". But can that article be trusted at all? I'm asking because I'm about to add a paragraph based on that source, and that depends on your answer. JSH-alive/ talk/ cont/ mail 04:39, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
An update: The film is set to be released in the Middle East on 10 August. We don't know if WB has agreed to cut the film as suggested by the censors there. JSH-alive/ talk/ cont/ mail 12:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
I think calling the movie "feminist" is reductive. The movie doesn't necessarily endorse Barbieland as some "utopia for women". It also shows the negative ways a stereotypical brand of feminism can be damaging to both genders. It's shown through Barbie and Ken's arcs. It could be argued the movie's more humanist. talk 11:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
That strikes me as a possibly insensitive term for a character (Weird Barbie) whose appearance has changed due to injury or whatever. Not sure what the better term would be (or how relevant Weird Barbie's appearance is, since I actually haven't seen the film), so I'll leave this note here rather than making the edit myself. Jcejhay ( talk) 12:25, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
Her owner quite literally abused her by drawing on her face, cutting her hair and bending her limbs in odd positions. Because of this, her personality and physical appearance changed. Instead of supporting Weird Barbie, the Barbies cast her out. At one point, Weird Barbie was considered the most beautiful of them all.From the first reference we learn that she is considered the local wise woman.
Weird Barbie, a wise but disfigured outcast
Weird Barbie--who, despite being wise, has been outcast due to personality traits and physical appearances the other Barbies consider unattractive--But that's getting pretty wordy. I too will simply leave this note as food for thought without making an edit. Xan747 ( talk) 17:05, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
A group of outcasts live apart from the other Barbies, many of them being discontinued models. Among them is Weird Barbie, whose owner in the real world drew lines on her face, chopped her hair, and bent her limbs into unnatural positions--all of which changed her appearance and personality in ways the other Barbies consider unattractive.
Weird Barbie, whom the other Barbies often seek out for her wisdom and knowledge of secrets, tells her that to cure her affliction, she must travel into the real world and find the child playing with her.
I have now made revisions based on @ Xan747's suggestions. Jcejhay ( talk) 11:49, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
− | A group of | + | A group of mainly discontinued models live as outcasts. Among them is Weird Barbie; once considered the most beautiful, her owner marked her face, chopped her hair, and unnaturally bent her limbs, also changing her personality.
[...]
Weird Barbie, often sought for her wisdom, tells her to find the child playing with her in the real world. |
"Arriving at Venice Beach, the two get up to multiple antics and are arrested after Barbie punches a man groping her, alarming the Mattel CEO, who orders their capture." Does the "Barbie punches a man groping her" part really has to be in the sentence? I already explained this to @ John315: if it says "the two get up to multiple antics", that includes everything that happened to them (the groping, the arrest, and the clothes stealing). Needless to emphasize the groping part just to take a stand on Barbie's sexual harassment (not to mention they were arrested twice, once for the punching, once for the stealing). Taking a stand on a certain matter is not the job of a movie plot. The point of the sentence is that they cause a series of antics, which alarms the Mattel CEO, who orders their capture. There's no need to detaling what are those antics. That's my opinon. Ertonien ( talk) 23:17, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi fellow editors, I'd like discuss a problem that is constantly repeated in the Plot section. Despite the warning at the top of the section that clearly states "consider avoiding using clauses that just repeat the meaning of the main clause with synonyms", some editors just choose to ignore it. I repeatedly find new sentences making that same mistake.
The latest one is "She becomes depressed and feels like she's not as beautiful and pretty as before as Gloria and Sasha start to drive away, but they turn back and Gloria gives an inspirational speech about society's conflicting expectations of women, telling Barbie that she's pretty and beautiful in her own way and restoring her self-confidence." Not only that this sentence is way too long but it repeats the pretty and beautiful words two times, and these words are synonyms to each other anyway.
Hereby, I'd like to ask every editor to READ THAT WARNING AT THE TOP OF SECTION before creating these kind of sentences. It makes other editor's job real hard to always have to deal with the same problem due to other's inattentiveness. Ertonien ( talk) 10:38, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
− | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are temporarily | + | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are temporarily arrested after Barbie punches a man groping her. The incident alarms the [[Mattel]] CEO, who orders their recapture. |
is being kicked around on my talkpage as part of a much larger discussion about the Plot section between myself and @ Ertonien. It's clearly time to get @ John315 and others involved here.
IMO, one is not "temporarily arrested"; an arrest is the *process* of being taken into custody, which is a more involved and formal process than simply being detained. In this
diff I rewrote it as: Arriving at
Venice Beach, the two are arrested after Barbie punches a man groping her. They escape, alarming the
Mattel CEO, who orders their recapture.
Ertonien rejected that because he says the movie doesn't show that they escaped, and because the Mattel CEO was alarmed by the entire incident, not just that they had regained their freedom (by whatever means). However, now that John315 says in his
edit summary, Restored "arrested" -- there are police mugshots, etc. "Detained" sounds less serious than "arrested", but they were arrested."
I think we definitely need to use the word "arrested", and somehow indicate they were only held in custody for a short period of time.
Xan747
✈️
🧑✈️
18:16, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
In the movie, Barbie and Ken didn't formally escaped from the police because they were arrested two times, and each times there was a cut beetwen scenes followed by them walking on the streets freely, which implies that they were not kept in for long.
− | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are | + | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are arrested but quickly released after Barbie punches a man groping her. Alarmed, the [[Mattel]] CEO, orders their recapture. |
− | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are arrested | + | Arriving at [[Venice, Los Angeles|Venice Beach]], the two are arrested after Barbie punches a man groping her, but quickly released. |
This war has been going on between 50.229.142.226 and JSH-alive:
− | Barbie, who remains unsure of her own purpose and identity, meets with the spirit of | + | Barbie, who remains unsure of her own purpose and identity, meets with the spirit of Mattel co-founder [[Ruth Handler]] |
Perhaps others are involved too. Whatever the case, I believe it is JSH who embedded this comment in the article: Do NOT label Ruth Handler as the 'inventor' of Barbie (or similar). I know Ruth in the film calls herself as such, but if you are well interested in the history of toy industry, you will realize that this is technically not right. See also:
Bild Lilli doll.
That is an interesting bit of history, which our main Barbie article covers in some detail, as does Ruth Handler's article. Thing is, both articles consistently refer to Handler as the inventor of Barbie, I presume because that's how virtually every RS describes her. That's how every review of the movie I've seen refers to her. And as JSH does say, that's how the movie itself refers to her.
We go by the sources, so I will revert JSH's edit accordingly and modify the embedded comment to refer to this talk section. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 17:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
As part of the movie’s extensive marketing campaign, another brand you should add to the list is “ Save the Children.” This organization is significant because they are a 100+ year old humanitarian nonprofit, and their collaboration with Barbie/Mattel/Warner Bros helped drive donations and support. 2601:14D:100:9390:807E:FDA7:75DD:786E ( talk) 05:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
The sources capitalize the "al" in Lafi's name, but Wikipeida's MoS says that "al" should "always [be] written in lower case". I believe it should be lowercased, but I'm just making sure if that's the case. FunLater ( talk) 19:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
Update: Heads up. Barbie will soon become the highest grossing hit of the year, surpassing the Mario Bros movie. https://fortune.com/2023/08/27/barbie-mario-gran-turismo-box-office-movies/amp/ It also is Warner Bros. most profitable film to date. 96.93.193.114 ( talk) 18:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Where do the descriptive names for the Kens in the cast listing (Tourist Ken/Basketball Ken/Artist Ken/Stereotypical Ken) come from? Lemongrass2013 ( talk) 22:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
I have had several edits undone after updating this article to show that it is at the very least a UK co-production, even when providing reputable sources. Despite this, there are no sources in the article to say it is an American production, and it is ignorant to assume it is by default. Mike Allen is the latest user to do this, claiming there are no reputable sources that say this is a UK production, yet there are no reputable sources stating this is an American production either.
Let's take a look at the facts which support this being at least a UK co-production:
You cannot give any weight to the nationalities of cast and crew and make assumptions.
What is the established consensus on wikipedia for establishing a country of origin for a film? If there is none, then there is just as much right to remove any unsourced edits claiming this is an American film as there is for removing ones claiming UK. FrannyWannyWoo ( talk) 03:40, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Very many film WP articles give (ticket record) figures that have not been adjusted for inflation; they are therefore pretty meaningless. Could you please clarify if this is the case with Barbie? If not adjusted, please remove the figures. Anna ( talk) 00:07, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Universal and Warner Bros. co–produced the film. 23.245.47.124 ( talk) 02:04, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
As it is widely known, Barbie's full name is "Barbara Millicent Roberts" ever since (as Ken is Kenneth Carson). As the movie sticks very close to the Barbie canon and doesn't mess with facts I was wondering if there's information about why they specifically chose to not use Barbie's "real" fictional name. (I am referring to the last scene where she's at her doctor's appointment.) I would appreciate any context - thank you! -- Glamourqueen ( talk) 16:03, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Would it be acceptable to make a brief mention somewhere about the backlash the film has received from some conservative/right-wing audiences, as there are numerous reliable sources that have reported on it? Granted, there's usually at least one film or show every year that irks certain right-leaning crowds but, obviously helped in part by the film's popularity, this is one outlier by attracting notable attention. Wikibenboy94 ( talk) 17:05, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
There's a tag proposing a fork of the Accolades section. I support this idea. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:56, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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Please add Barbenheimer to See Also. 31.44.227.148 ( talk) 23:59, 26 December 2023 (UTC)