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A couple of Judaism 101 questions:
In the film
Sixty Six "based on the true life bar mitzvah of director Paul Weiland", the plot hinges on the fact that the protagonist's Bar Mitzvah is scheduled for the same day as the 1966
World Cup, and the resulting conflict in priorities evidenced by his relatives and friends.
AFAIK (and I don't) it's not necessary that a Bar Mitzvah be scheduled on any specific day. Yes? No?
On the other hand, I assume that a Bar Mitvah must be scheduled so as to avoid conflicts with various
holidays.(?) --
201.37.230.43 (
talk)
22:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
A lot of communities don't strictly do the birthday thing either. Many places don't do them during the summer months, have policies as to whether multiple unrelated kids can have theirs on the same day, and so forth, so a lot of them end up being just at some point during the school year that the teen turns 13. Some places let b'mitzvah students choose the date based on the parsha they resonate with. Someone can probably pull up synagogue websites or blog posts to find citations if we want this added.
Triangular (
talk)
19:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Is there any reason why "Bar Mitzvah" and "Bas Mitzvah" are capitalized in the article? Robert K S ( talk) 01:22, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I suggest that this article be split into two, or at least have seperate articles on the Bar and Bat mitzvahs as well as this overview article, because although they share part of their name, and nowadays are seen as different-gender versions of the same thing, they are actually two completely different things, with two very different histories.Althoughh Bar Mitzvahs have been around since ancient times, Bat Mitzvahs were only invented in the last 100 years or so for gender equality.
"In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many Jewish communities began marking when a girl became a Bat Mitzvah with a special ceremony. This was a break from traditional Jewish custom, which prohibited women from participating directly in religious services. Using the Bar Mitzvah ceremony as a model, Jewish communities began to experiment with developing a similar ceremony for girls. In 1922, Rabbi Mordecai Kaplan performed the first proto-bat mitzvah ceremony in America for his daughter Judith, when she was allowed to read from the Torah when she became a Bat Mitzvah. Although this new found privilege did not match the Bar Mitzvah ceremony in complexity, the event nevertheless marked what is widely considered to be the first modern bat mitzvah in the United States. It triggered the development and evolution of the modern Bat Mitzvah ceremony."
— [1]
-- Coin945 ( talk) 03:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
I would suggest strongly that this NOT be split, as reform/recon/cons communities also include and celebrate trans, gender-fluid, nonbinary, etc. teens, and this would just further marginalize and other these teens. You're completely correct of course that the history differs, but the history of a LOT of things was that first only men did it, then women, and more recently we specifically included and affirmed queer/nonbinary folks (with the understanding that before the 1400s-1600s and rampant colonization and Christian missionizing, most of the world was actually much more open with regards to gender expression outside of the binary). Triangular ( talk) 20:02, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Should Bar, Bat, and Mitzvah be capped? There are examples of both in the article. Also, on Andrew Breitbart, same issue which brought me here, so I'm still confused. Would someone please fix? Thanks Jim1138 ( talk) 18:42, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Bar Mitzvah (Hebrew: בַּר מִצְוָה) and Bat Mitzvah (Hebrew: בַּת מִצְוָה) (Ashkenazi pronunciation: "Bas Mitzvah") (plural: B'nai Mitzvah for boys, and B'not Mitzvah – Ashkenazi pronunciation: "B'nos Mitzvah" – for girls) are Jewish coming of age rituals.
Can we do something about this sentence? It hurts my brain to see three separate parenthesized sections in a row, not to mention having them encompass 80% of the sentence. Prinsgezinde ( talk) 01:44, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
In this article we find bar mitzvah, bar Mitzvah, and Bar Mitzvah. They should be the same. Which is preferred?
Also bar mitzvah is sometimes in italic, and other times not. deisenbe ( talk) 11:38, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Does a Jewish boy automatically become bar mitzvah when he turns 13, regardless of what he knows or what ceremony or aliyah in the synagogue has or has not taken place? Is he counted in a minyan without any bar mitzvah ceremony? deisenbe ( talk) 11:44, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
According to a December 2021 revision, still present as of this time, Conservative Judaism, like Reform Judaism, holds B'not Mitzvah at 13, just like boys. That was certainly not true when I was growing up, but there is a distressing lack of any concrete information I can find about this on the official USCJ/RCA organizational websites. Was there a shift? Is it on a synagogue-by-synagogue basis? Or was the edit just mistaken? --gejyspa ( talk) 15:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Bar and bat mitzvah article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization: |
A couple of Judaism 101 questions:
In the film
Sixty Six "based on the true life bar mitzvah of director Paul Weiland", the plot hinges on the fact that the protagonist's Bar Mitzvah is scheduled for the same day as the 1966
World Cup, and the resulting conflict in priorities evidenced by his relatives and friends.
AFAIK (and I don't) it's not necessary that a Bar Mitzvah be scheduled on any specific day. Yes? No?
On the other hand, I assume that a Bar Mitvah must be scheduled so as to avoid conflicts with various
holidays.(?) --
201.37.230.43 (
talk)
22:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
A lot of communities don't strictly do the birthday thing either. Many places don't do them during the summer months, have policies as to whether multiple unrelated kids can have theirs on the same day, and so forth, so a lot of them end up being just at some point during the school year that the teen turns 13. Some places let b'mitzvah students choose the date based on the parsha they resonate with. Someone can probably pull up synagogue websites or blog posts to find citations if we want this added.
Triangular (
talk)
19:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Is there any reason why "Bar Mitzvah" and "Bas Mitzvah" are capitalized in the article? Robert K S ( talk) 01:22, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I suggest that this article be split into two, or at least have seperate articles on the Bar and Bat mitzvahs as well as this overview article, because although they share part of their name, and nowadays are seen as different-gender versions of the same thing, they are actually two completely different things, with two very different histories.Althoughh Bar Mitzvahs have been around since ancient times, Bat Mitzvahs were only invented in the last 100 years or so for gender equality.
"In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many Jewish communities began marking when a girl became a Bat Mitzvah with a special ceremony. This was a break from traditional Jewish custom, which prohibited women from participating directly in religious services. Using the Bar Mitzvah ceremony as a model, Jewish communities began to experiment with developing a similar ceremony for girls. In 1922, Rabbi Mordecai Kaplan performed the first proto-bat mitzvah ceremony in America for his daughter Judith, when she was allowed to read from the Torah when she became a Bat Mitzvah. Although this new found privilege did not match the Bar Mitzvah ceremony in complexity, the event nevertheless marked what is widely considered to be the first modern bat mitzvah in the United States. It triggered the development and evolution of the modern Bat Mitzvah ceremony."
— [1]
-- Coin945 ( talk) 03:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
I would suggest strongly that this NOT be split, as reform/recon/cons communities also include and celebrate trans, gender-fluid, nonbinary, etc. teens, and this would just further marginalize and other these teens. You're completely correct of course that the history differs, but the history of a LOT of things was that first only men did it, then women, and more recently we specifically included and affirmed queer/nonbinary folks (with the understanding that before the 1400s-1600s and rampant colonization and Christian missionizing, most of the world was actually much more open with regards to gender expression outside of the binary). Triangular ( talk) 20:02, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Should Bar, Bat, and Mitzvah be capped? There are examples of both in the article. Also, on Andrew Breitbart, same issue which brought me here, so I'm still confused. Would someone please fix? Thanks Jim1138 ( talk) 18:42, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Bar Mitzvah (Hebrew: בַּר מִצְוָה) and Bat Mitzvah (Hebrew: בַּת מִצְוָה) (Ashkenazi pronunciation: "Bas Mitzvah") (plural: B'nai Mitzvah for boys, and B'not Mitzvah – Ashkenazi pronunciation: "B'nos Mitzvah" – for girls) are Jewish coming of age rituals.
Can we do something about this sentence? It hurts my brain to see three separate parenthesized sections in a row, not to mention having them encompass 80% of the sentence. Prinsgezinde ( talk) 01:44, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
In this article we find bar mitzvah, bar Mitzvah, and Bar Mitzvah. They should be the same. Which is preferred?
Also bar mitzvah is sometimes in italic, and other times not. deisenbe ( talk) 11:38, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Does a Jewish boy automatically become bar mitzvah when he turns 13, regardless of what he knows or what ceremony or aliyah in the synagogue has or has not taken place? Is he counted in a minyan without any bar mitzvah ceremony? deisenbe ( talk) 11:44, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
According to a December 2021 revision, still present as of this time, Conservative Judaism, like Reform Judaism, holds B'not Mitzvah at 13, just like boys. That was certainly not true when I was growing up, but there is a distressing lack of any concrete information I can find about this on the official USCJ/RCA organizational websites. Was there a shift? Is it on a synagogue-by-synagogue basis? Or was the edit just mistaken? --gejyspa ( talk) 15:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)