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Name
This river is located in internationally recognized Syrian land. Syrias official language is Arabic, not hebrew. The english name for this river is "Banias river". "Nahal Hermon" is a hebrew name that the occupying country uses. Why should wikipedia use the hebrew/occupiers name for this Syrian river? We should use the english name "Banias river. --
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
18:34, 16 June 2020 (UTC)reply
First of all banias river 34400 but the hermon stream is 28700 which is translation of Nahal Hermon from Hebrew.I propose as compromise to rename to hermon stream
Shrike (
talk)
18:52, 16 June 2020 (UTC)reply
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose this is just part of removing Hebrew or Israeli place names from articles. The common name is more often used as Hermon variant either Nahal/Nachal Hermon/Chermon or Hermon Stream, and should stay as this.
Sir Joseph(talk)00:50, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
I've posted evidence that your comment is false, and beyond that nobody is removing the Hebrew from the article. This is a river that is nearly entirely contained in Syria, I'm not sure why it matters what the Hebrew or Israeli name is, though even Israeli papers use Banias River (
Times of Israel: Banias River,
Haaretz: Banias River,
Yedioth Ahronoth: Banias River. But your comment on what is the common name is directly refuted by evidence. This is the English Wikipedia, and even Israeli sources use "Banias River" in English. The numbers are so lopsided here that I cant even begin to wrap my head around the bald-faced assertion that white is black that you make here in calling Nahal Hermon the common name. nableezy -
01:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Nableezy, The river is not in Syria, it's in the Golan. We're not unicorns, unlike the WB or Sinai, the Golan is never going back to Syria, especially now so let's not pretend anything, especially with the US recognition, and full Israeli control over it.
Sir Joseph(talk)02:17, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
I invite you to both read
Golan Heights as to what country that place is in and to reread the numbers for the various searches here. But, back to the point, your oppose is provably factually incorrect. It in fact is not only provably incorrect it is proven incorrect. If youd like to oppose based on saying two is greater than forty then by all means. nableezy -
05:26, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Sir Joseph, why would English Wikipedia use an Israeli or hebrew place name for an area that is internationally recognized as Syria? How is this neutral? How is this following wikipedia rules? Why shouldn't English Wikipedia use the English name "Banias River" instead? Both Google/Google books searches I posted below shows that Banias/Banyas River is the most used name.--
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
03:03, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Support move to Banias River. This river is located in internationally recognized Syrian land. Syrias official language is Arabic, not hebrew. The english name for this river is "Banias River". "Nahal Hermon" is a hebrew name that the occupying country uses. Why should wikipedia use the hebrew/occupiers name for this Syrian river? We should use the english name "Banias River". "Banias River" is the most common name, Google search: "Banias River" 35.600 hits:
[5] (+19.600 hits if we use "Banyas River"
[6]) "Nahal Hermon" 12.400 hits
[7]. Google books: "Banias River" 16 pages of hits:
[8], "Hermon Stream": 1,5 pages of hits:
[9].--
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
02:55, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Google NGRAM:
[10] has "Nahal Hermon+Hermon River" over or more less equal to "Banias River+Nahal Banias" since the 1970s. Might as well use the name of the better known mountain over the name of the Pan god site.--
Bob not snob (
talk)
06:18, 18 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Bob not snob, You have no idea what you are talking about, you used "Nahal Banias" in your search which is basically a non-existent name with one single hit on google books:
[11]. If we do the search with only Banias River vs Nahal Hermon:
[12] we get 0.954% vs 0.526%, Thats a large difference. If we do the same search Banias River vs Hermon River we get an even larger difference:
[13], with Banias river at 0.954 and Hermon River at 0.158%. --
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
07:04, 18 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose Nahal Hermon and Hermon Stream is the same name which is widely used in sources and its
WP:COMMONNAME.It was not proven that the proposed name is really more prevalent --
Shrike (
talk)
19:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Actually, I posted the results for hermon stream in news, scholar and books. Banias River is, and this much is indisputable, much more commonly used. Unless you would like to argue that
243 is greater than
1360? nableezy -
19:50, 20 June 2020 (UTC)reply
How many hits "hermon stream" got in regular google search?Also Google Ngram is quite more descriptive then just simple search. --
Shrike (
talk)
06:01, 21 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Banias spring is the source of Banias river in Banias, get it? No reason to apply Hebrew designation (or English translation of it) to non-Israeli place. Such argument is complete nonsense, like trying to argue that London should be called Londres because that's what the Spanish call it, duh. In Spanish Wikipedia they do call it that and in Hebrew Wikipedia, they can call it what they like in Hebrew but this is English WP (Hermon Stream is Israeli occupier designation of natural park area, that's all).
Selfstudier (
talk)
09:28, 21 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Support like Huldra said, its English not Hebrew wiki, plus its in the Golan, which is recognized internationally (except US) as Israeli occupied Golan Heights. I also find
Sir Joseph comments very inflammatory, please understand the Golan Heights issue before you make such brash assertations. Regards
JJNito197 (
talk)
13:50, 21 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Yeah, and I am responding to you. Eid al-Fitr is at
Eid al-Fitr because it is the most commonly used term in English to refer to that holiday. Same for
Yom Kippur. In English, the most commonly used term to refer to this river is Banias River. That has been amply demonstrated by the evidence, and in response we get assertions that are not only not backed by anything but directly refuted by the evidence. nableezy -
14:49, 22 June 2020 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Syria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria articles
This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the
project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles
This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rivers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Rivers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.RiversWikipedia:WikiProject RiversTemplate:WikiProject RiversRiver articles
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the
Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
You must be logged-in and
extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for
making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic
The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:
Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to
make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.
With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:
Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.
If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!
Name
This river is located in internationally recognized Syrian land. Syrias official language is Arabic, not hebrew. The english name for this river is "Banias river". "Nahal Hermon" is a hebrew name that the occupying country uses. Why should wikipedia use the hebrew/occupiers name for this Syrian river? We should use the english name "Banias river. --
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
18:34, 16 June 2020 (UTC)reply
First of all banias river 34400 but the hermon stream is 28700 which is translation of Nahal Hermon from Hebrew.I propose as compromise to rename to hermon stream
Shrike (
talk)
18:52, 16 June 2020 (UTC)reply
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose this is just part of removing Hebrew or Israeli place names from articles. The common name is more often used as Hermon variant either Nahal/Nachal Hermon/Chermon or Hermon Stream, and should stay as this.
Sir Joseph(talk)00:50, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
I've posted evidence that your comment is false, and beyond that nobody is removing the Hebrew from the article. This is a river that is nearly entirely contained in Syria, I'm not sure why it matters what the Hebrew or Israeli name is, though even Israeli papers use Banias River (
Times of Israel: Banias River,
Haaretz: Banias River,
Yedioth Ahronoth: Banias River. But your comment on what is the common name is directly refuted by evidence. This is the English Wikipedia, and even Israeli sources use "Banias River" in English. The numbers are so lopsided here that I cant even begin to wrap my head around the bald-faced assertion that white is black that you make here in calling Nahal Hermon the common name. nableezy -
01:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Nableezy, The river is not in Syria, it's in the Golan. We're not unicorns, unlike the WB or Sinai, the Golan is never going back to Syria, especially now so let's not pretend anything, especially with the US recognition, and full Israeli control over it.
Sir Joseph(talk)02:17, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
I invite you to both read
Golan Heights as to what country that place is in and to reread the numbers for the various searches here. But, back to the point, your oppose is provably factually incorrect. It in fact is not only provably incorrect it is proven incorrect. If youd like to oppose based on saying two is greater than forty then by all means. nableezy -
05:26, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Sir Joseph, why would English Wikipedia use an Israeli or hebrew place name for an area that is internationally recognized as Syria? How is this neutral? How is this following wikipedia rules? Why shouldn't English Wikipedia use the English name "Banias River" instead? Both Google/Google books searches I posted below shows that Banias/Banyas River is the most used name.--
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
03:03, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Support move to Banias River. This river is located in internationally recognized Syrian land. Syrias official language is Arabic, not hebrew. The english name for this river is "Banias River". "Nahal Hermon" is a hebrew name that the occupying country uses. Why should wikipedia use the hebrew/occupiers name for this Syrian river? We should use the english name "Banias River". "Banias River" is the most common name, Google search: "Banias River" 35.600 hits:
[5] (+19.600 hits if we use "Banyas River"
[6]) "Nahal Hermon" 12.400 hits
[7]. Google books: "Banias River" 16 pages of hits:
[8], "Hermon Stream": 1,5 pages of hits:
[9].--
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
02:55, 17 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Google NGRAM:
[10] has "Nahal Hermon+Hermon River" over or more less equal to "Banias River+Nahal Banias" since the 1970s. Might as well use the name of the better known mountain over the name of the Pan god site.--
Bob not snob (
talk)
06:18, 18 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Bob not snob, You have no idea what you are talking about, you used "Nahal Banias" in your search which is basically a non-existent name with one single hit on google books:
[11]. If we do the search with only Banias River vs Nahal Hermon:
[12] we get 0.954% vs 0.526%, Thats a large difference. If we do the same search Banias River vs Hermon River we get an even larger difference:
[13], with Banias river at 0.954 and Hermon River at 0.158%. --
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
07:04, 18 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose Nahal Hermon and Hermon Stream is the same name which is widely used in sources and its
WP:COMMONNAME.It was not proven that the proposed name is really more prevalent --
Shrike (
talk)
19:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Actually, I posted the results for hermon stream in news, scholar and books. Banias River is, and this much is indisputable, much more commonly used. Unless you would like to argue that
243 is greater than
1360? nableezy -
19:50, 20 June 2020 (UTC)reply
How many hits "hermon stream" got in regular google search?Also Google Ngram is quite more descriptive then just simple search. --
Shrike (
talk)
06:01, 21 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Banias spring is the source of Banias river in Banias, get it? No reason to apply Hebrew designation (or English translation of it) to non-Israeli place. Such argument is complete nonsense, like trying to argue that London should be called Londres because that's what the Spanish call it, duh. In Spanish Wikipedia they do call it that and in Hebrew Wikipedia, they can call it what they like in Hebrew but this is English WP (Hermon Stream is Israeli occupier designation of natural park area, that's all).
Selfstudier (
talk)
09:28, 21 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Support like Huldra said, its English not Hebrew wiki, plus its in the Golan, which is recognized internationally (except US) as Israeli occupied Golan Heights. I also find
Sir Joseph comments very inflammatory, please understand the Golan Heights issue before you make such brash assertations. Regards
JJNito197 (
talk)
13:50, 21 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Yeah, and I am responding to you. Eid al-Fitr is at
Eid al-Fitr because it is the most commonly used term in English to refer to that holiday. Same for
Yom Kippur. In English, the most commonly used term to refer to this river is Banias River. That has been amply demonstrated by the evidence, and in response we get assertions that are not only not backed by anything but directly refuted by the evidence. nableezy -
14:49, 22 June 2020 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.