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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:56, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
As with many Irish placenames, anglicised from the original Irish into English, there are variants of the spelling. In the case of this title/subject, we find variants including Enniskean (no "e") and Enniskeane (with "e").
An editor, who favours the latter, made an undiscussed move of this article. In doing so, overturning 18 years of stability, overriding the name given to the combined census town, ignoring (and misrepresenting) the placenames commission entry and editorialising about which is more common.
I have restored the original title (in line with WP:RMUM) and opened this thread to provide for discussion, and establishment of some form of consensus/compromise on what the article title should be. And how we reflect the varying spellings in the body.
Personally I believe that Ballineen and Enniskean is the most appropriate title for the article. As it reflects the census town name(s) (of Ballineen-Enniskean or Ballineen/Enniskean), reflects the Placenames Commission DB, the local road signage, etc. Absolutely, the spelling variations should be covered, reflected and discussed in the body (and where reflected in the refs, the "Enniskeane" variant used), but the attempts to declare that one has primacy over the other, without refs or discussion, is a concern.
(Note: I have opened a separate thread on the undiscussed move of the Ballineen and Enniskean railway station title. Which the moving editor should reasonably have expected to be potentially controversial. And so should have followed WP:PCM.)
Cheers. Guliolopez ( talk) 15:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
While it seems that I am still talking to myself, the "long, rambling and unsupported commentary in a margin/footer note" is not the place to cover the variant spellings of the anglicised version of Enniskean/Enniskeane/Enniskeen. This situation is very common and (as we see in Lahinch (Lehinch), Cappoquin (Cappaquin), Ennistymon (Ennistimon), Clonaslee (Cloneslieu), Baltinglass (Baltinglas), Dún Laoghaire (Dún Laoire), etc), the convention is to have a "name" section which discusses the etymology and variations. I will add such a section shortly. In adding this section I will also, quite frankly, remove (as uncited OR and SYNTH) the claim that one variation has a claim to originality and primacy. As, not only is it completely unsupported, it doesn't hold any water. I also propose to remove/reduce most of what is in the editorial note. As rambling OR. And propose to move some of the variations from the lead to the new "name" section. Not least as MOS:BOLD isn't being followed. I also propose, FYI, to ensure that the body and text reflects the relevant spellings. For example, where the "sawmill" sources use Enniskeane, we will use that spelling. However, where the "Kean/Cian" sources use Enniskean, we should reflect that spelling. Otherwise we have WP:TSI issues. Other thoughts and engagement is (as always) welcome/encouraged/expected. Guliolopez ( talk) 11:11, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
"The title can be followed in the first line by a list of alternative names in parentheses", "Infoboxes should generally be headed with the article title", and "The same name as in the title should be used consistently throughout the article". When it says
"the title can be followed by alternative names"it means that listing those alternative names in the lead is optional, if there are any. It doesn't mean you can put the names in any order you like. Pinging Guliolopez too. – Asarlaí ( talk) 08:59, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ballineen and Enniskean. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.corkandross.org/jsp/parishes/parishmainnew.jsp?parish=29When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:56, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
As with many Irish placenames, anglicised from the original Irish into English, there are variants of the spelling. In the case of this title/subject, we find variants including Enniskean (no "e") and Enniskeane (with "e").
An editor, who favours the latter, made an undiscussed move of this article. In doing so, overturning 18 years of stability, overriding the name given to the combined census town, ignoring (and misrepresenting) the placenames commission entry and editorialising about which is more common.
I have restored the original title (in line with WP:RMUM) and opened this thread to provide for discussion, and establishment of some form of consensus/compromise on what the article title should be. And how we reflect the varying spellings in the body.
Personally I believe that Ballineen and Enniskean is the most appropriate title for the article. As it reflects the census town name(s) (of Ballineen-Enniskean or Ballineen/Enniskean), reflects the Placenames Commission DB, the local road signage, etc. Absolutely, the spelling variations should be covered, reflected and discussed in the body (and where reflected in the refs, the "Enniskeane" variant used), but the attempts to declare that one has primacy over the other, without refs or discussion, is a concern.
(Note: I have opened a separate thread on the undiscussed move of the Ballineen and Enniskean railway station title. Which the moving editor should reasonably have expected to be potentially controversial. And so should have followed WP:PCM.)
Cheers. Guliolopez ( talk) 15:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
While it seems that I am still talking to myself, the "long, rambling and unsupported commentary in a margin/footer note" is not the place to cover the variant spellings of the anglicised version of Enniskean/Enniskeane/Enniskeen. This situation is very common and (as we see in Lahinch (Lehinch), Cappoquin (Cappaquin), Ennistymon (Ennistimon), Clonaslee (Cloneslieu), Baltinglass (Baltinglas), Dún Laoghaire (Dún Laoire), etc), the convention is to have a "name" section which discusses the etymology and variations. I will add such a section shortly. In adding this section I will also, quite frankly, remove (as uncited OR and SYNTH) the claim that one variation has a claim to originality and primacy. As, not only is it completely unsupported, it doesn't hold any water. I also propose to remove/reduce most of what is in the editorial note. As rambling OR. And propose to move some of the variations from the lead to the new "name" section. Not least as MOS:BOLD isn't being followed. I also propose, FYI, to ensure that the body and text reflects the relevant spellings. For example, where the "sawmill" sources use Enniskeane, we will use that spelling. However, where the "Kean/Cian" sources use Enniskean, we should reflect that spelling. Otherwise we have WP:TSI issues. Other thoughts and engagement is (as always) welcome/encouraged/expected. Guliolopez ( talk) 11:11, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
"The title can be followed in the first line by a list of alternative names in parentheses", "Infoboxes should generally be headed with the article title", and "The same name as in the title should be used consistently throughout the article". When it says
"the title can be followed by alternative names"it means that listing those alternative names in the lead is optional, if there are any. It doesn't mean you can put the names in any order you like. Pinging Guliolopez too. – Asarlaí ( talk) 08:59, 16 May 2023 (UTC)