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For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{ Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:17, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
In the section History and Cultural relations Bulgars are listed as one of the 11 possible ancestors of Balkars. In other words no definite link between those two is estanblished. But, the article Batbayan of Bulgaria claims that Turkic Bulgars in the 7th century are the ancestors of Balkars. The difference between the two articles need attention of an expert. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 14:02, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
"In 1944, the Soviet government celebrated International Women's Day by forcibly deporting almost the entire Balkar population"... isn't that a bit snarky? It sounds more appropriate to the National Lampoon than Wikipedia (I got a smile out of it, though). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.108.37.224 ( talk) 22:23, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
b > m (sound change) Böri ( talk) 09:21, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
May I can ask why
my edits were deleted?
My edit countains following points:
As we know the Ossetians call themselves Iron, isn't it?
Notice:Alan has nothing to do with the historical Iranian-speaking Alans. So please don't misinterpret me. Thanks.
--
Greczia (
talk) 12:38, 29 May 2012 (CEST)
Before the annexation to the Russian Empire the Balkars (self-designation Alan or Taulula) were settled in the inaccessible gorges on the northern slopes of the central part of the main Caucasus range
Is it possible to see those citations as soon as possible? --
Greczia (
talk) 10:04, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
User Greczia claims that Balkars self designation is Alan, which is said to be not connected to the Alans.
When XXX is self designation of people YYY then in the dictionary of YYY language XXX should be YYY. XXX should be mentioned as self designation of YYY in various encyclopedias, academic works about YYY and so on. What do we have in the case of Balkars.
What about your citations.
Anyway your citations are not reliable. I have noticed several similarities in your citations.
-- Bouron ( talk) 13:11, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
Deciphering your arguments, it turns out that Ossetians at first called themselves and their territories Asiag, then, when the Ossetians snoozed, came Balkars and transferred sleeping Ossetians to another territory, taking their former land. The next day the Ossetians woke up and, using the name of the territory, began to use their own ethnonym Yases for Balkars, instead of themselves, as before, and also began to call themselves Ironians, for they did not recall how they were called earlier. It would be clear to every child that in the real life this does not happen and cannot happen. This fairy tale was necessary "to prove" by any means the equivalency of the historical Ases and Ossetians.
Сторонники ираноязычия алан склонны предпологать, что слово "алан" применяется в смысле "друг, товарищ и т.д." Это ошибочное мнение, т.к. для обозначения этих слов в карачаевском языке есть слова "тенгим, шохум". Примечательно что со словом "алан" можно обращаться как к мужчине так и к женщине, как к молодым так и к пожилым людям, а вданном случае прием сторонников ираноязычия не работает. Приведу лишь один типичный пример из обычного разговора в среде балкарцев или карачаевцев: - "Алан, сен таулу тюйюлмюсе?", "Алан, ты не горец, что ли?"; - "Аланла, Аллах ючю сёз айтыргъа бир къоюгъуз-мен кесим эшитгенме!"-"Аланы, дайте, ради Аллаха, сказать мне хоть слово - я ведь сам слышал! " - "Алан, не адамса сен? Сен къуру эшитген этгенсе, мен а анда болгъанма"-"Алан, что ты за человек? Ты только слышал, а я сам был там! Хотите - расскажу. " - "Алан, къайда къалдынг?" "Алан, где ты задержался?" - "Алан, сен залим кёреем!", "Алан, ты молодец!"
Так же примечательно, что Карачаевцы и Балкарцы когда обращаются к большой массе людей (имеется ввиду людей своей национальности) не обращаются к ним со словом Карачаевцы!!! или Балкарцы!!! В данном случае используется именно Аланла или же Джамагъат!!!
Short summary-translation:
Coming to your doubts on my citations:
Even in one of your cited russian source we find following citation:
Well, this means that those who are living in the Balkar and Karachay mountain districts of the republics of Kabardino-Balkaria and Karachay-Cherkessia are called with the ethnonym "Alan".
All in all: Beside the fact that Karachay-Balkars are called by allmost all of their neighboring peoples as "Alan" and "As", you even could not at least reveal my citations which I've brought forward. It's clear that there are people who want to hide the self-designation of the Karachay-Balkars. Don't feel offended, but You are one of them. I see you have skipped some of my citations, Habichev is not marginal. I will adduce further citations to silence you:
Taulu just means mountaineer:
There is even an ethnic self-designation of Karachay and Balkar organization:
For further academic information, see below...
Alan (Karachaevo-Balkar) in the historical record:
Historical information on the Karachay and Balkar:
Alans (Karachay-Balkar) Latin alphabet:
Even the Karachay-Balkarian websites contains the self-designation/presentation "Alan":
Oh! And not to forget the self-designation "Alan" in traditional Karachay-Balkarian (Alanian) folklore and music. Here are some keywords I've catched with my ears for you: :-)
So many self-designations? Accidental? Very strange for somebody calling "his Friends" :-) There was, there is, and there never will be a doubt that Karachay-Balkars call themselve with the etnonym "Alan" and their land with "Alania".
--
Greczia (
talk) 00:41, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Adding from Caucasus Foundation:
"The nearest neighbors call Balkarians "As" (Ossetians), "Balkar" (Kabardins), "Az" or "Ovs" (Swanes); for instance, Megrelians call Karachais "Alan". The word "alan" is used by Balkarians to address each other. [...]. In 1395/96, world conqueror Timur and his biographers called Balkarians and Karachais "As" and were in fierce struggle against them. Until now, Balkarians and Karachais are called "As" by their immediate neighbors, Ossetians." (
General description of the Karachai-Balkarian people by Ismail M. Miziyev)
The Caucasus Foundation is a non-profit Nongovernmental Organization, carrying out several activities for preserving and fostering socio-cultural relations of the Caucasians living at diasporas or at Caucasus. --
Greczia (
talk) 16:00, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
This source mentions five tribes:
I found this because elsewhere someone mentioned Urusbiy as a surname, so I assume there is a connection. The Bizingi people are also mentioned here, Chegem here (as well as being a place name), Kholm here, Malqar here. I'm sure there are plenty of sources, but perhaps someone else has more information on hand, such as whether these still exist as distinct groups. Jack N. Stock ( talk) 22 February, 2018
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{ Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:17, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
In the section History and Cultural relations Bulgars are listed as one of the 11 possible ancestors of Balkars. In other words no definite link between those two is estanblished. But, the article Batbayan of Bulgaria claims that Turkic Bulgars in the 7th century are the ancestors of Balkars. The difference between the two articles need attention of an expert. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 14:02, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
"In 1944, the Soviet government celebrated International Women's Day by forcibly deporting almost the entire Balkar population"... isn't that a bit snarky? It sounds more appropriate to the National Lampoon than Wikipedia (I got a smile out of it, though). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.108.37.224 ( talk) 22:23, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
b > m (sound change) Böri ( talk) 09:21, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
May I can ask why
my edits were deleted?
My edit countains following points:
As we know the Ossetians call themselves Iron, isn't it?
Notice:Alan has nothing to do with the historical Iranian-speaking Alans. So please don't misinterpret me. Thanks.
--
Greczia (
talk) 12:38, 29 May 2012 (CEST)
Before the annexation to the Russian Empire the Balkars (self-designation Alan or Taulula) were settled in the inaccessible gorges on the northern slopes of the central part of the main Caucasus range
Is it possible to see those citations as soon as possible? --
Greczia (
talk) 10:04, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
User Greczia claims that Balkars self designation is Alan, which is said to be not connected to the Alans.
When XXX is self designation of people YYY then in the dictionary of YYY language XXX should be YYY. XXX should be mentioned as self designation of YYY in various encyclopedias, academic works about YYY and so on. What do we have in the case of Balkars.
What about your citations.
Anyway your citations are not reliable. I have noticed several similarities in your citations.
-- Bouron ( talk) 13:11, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
Deciphering your arguments, it turns out that Ossetians at first called themselves and their territories Asiag, then, when the Ossetians snoozed, came Balkars and transferred sleeping Ossetians to another territory, taking their former land. The next day the Ossetians woke up and, using the name of the territory, began to use their own ethnonym Yases for Balkars, instead of themselves, as before, and also began to call themselves Ironians, for they did not recall how they were called earlier. It would be clear to every child that in the real life this does not happen and cannot happen. This fairy tale was necessary "to prove" by any means the equivalency of the historical Ases and Ossetians.
Сторонники ираноязычия алан склонны предпологать, что слово "алан" применяется в смысле "друг, товарищ и т.д." Это ошибочное мнение, т.к. для обозначения этих слов в карачаевском языке есть слова "тенгим, шохум". Примечательно что со словом "алан" можно обращаться как к мужчине так и к женщине, как к молодым так и к пожилым людям, а вданном случае прием сторонников ираноязычия не работает. Приведу лишь один типичный пример из обычного разговора в среде балкарцев или карачаевцев: - "Алан, сен таулу тюйюлмюсе?", "Алан, ты не горец, что ли?"; - "Аланла, Аллах ючю сёз айтыргъа бир къоюгъуз-мен кесим эшитгенме!"-"Аланы, дайте, ради Аллаха, сказать мне хоть слово - я ведь сам слышал! " - "Алан, не адамса сен? Сен къуру эшитген этгенсе, мен а анда болгъанма"-"Алан, что ты за человек? Ты только слышал, а я сам был там! Хотите - расскажу. " - "Алан, къайда къалдынг?" "Алан, где ты задержался?" - "Алан, сен залим кёреем!", "Алан, ты молодец!"
Так же примечательно, что Карачаевцы и Балкарцы когда обращаются к большой массе людей (имеется ввиду людей своей национальности) не обращаются к ним со словом Карачаевцы!!! или Балкарцы!!! В данном случае используется именно Аланла или же Джамагъат!!!
Short summary-translation:
Coming to your doubts on my citations:
Even in one of your cited russian source we find following citation:
Well, this means that those who are living in the Balkar and Karachay mountain districts of the republics of Kabardino-Balkaria and Karachay-Cherkessia are called with the ethnonym "Alan".
All in all: Beside the fact that Karachay-Balkars are called by allmost all of their neighboring peoples as "Alan" and "As", you even could not at least reveal my citations which I've brought forward. It's clear that there are people who want to hide the self-designation of the Karachay-Balkars. Don't feel offended, but You are one of them. I see you have skipped some of my citations, Habichev is not marginal. I will adduce further citations to silence you:
Taulu just means mountaineer:
There is even an ethnic self-designation of Karachay and Balkar organization:
For further academic information, see below...
Alan (Karachaevo-Balkar) in the historical record:
Historical information on the Karachay and Balkar:
Alans (Karachay-Balkar) Latin alphabet:
Even the Karachay-Balkarian websites contains the self-designation/presentation "Alan":
Oh! And not to forget the self-designation "Alan" in traditional Karachay-Balkarian (Alanian) folklore and music. Here are some keywords I've catched with my ears for you: :-)
So many self-designations? Accidental? Very strange for somebody calling "his Friends" :-) There was, there is, and there never will be a doubt that Karachay-Balkars call themselve with the etnonym "Alan" and their land with "Alania".
--
Greczia (
talk) 00:41, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Adding from Caucasus Foundation:
"The nearest neighbors call Balkarians "As" (Ossetians), "Balkar" (Kabardins), "Az" or "Ovs" (Swanes); for instance, Megrelians call Karachais "Alan". The word "alan" is used by Balkarians to address each other. [...]. In 1395/96, world conqueror Timur and his biographers called Balkarians and Karachais "As" and were in fierce struggle against them. Until now, Balkarians and Karachais are called "As" by their immediate neighbors, Ossetians." (
General description of the Karachai-Balkarian people by Ismail M. Miziyev)
The Caucasus Foundation is a non-profit Nongovernmental Organization, carrying out several activities for preserving and fostering socio-cultural relations of the Caucasians living at diasporas or at Caucasus. --
Greczia (
talk) 16:00, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
This source mentions five tribes:
I found this because elsewhere someone mentioned Urusbiy as a surname, so I assume there is a connection. The Bizingi people are also mentioned here, Chegem here (as well as being a place name), Kholm here, Malqar here. I'm sure there are plenty of sources, but perhaps someone else has more information on hand, such as whether these still exist as distinct groups. Jack N. Stock ( talk) 22 February, 2018