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Archive 1 |
The "decision" of the U.S. Supreme Court expressly states that the Court was declining to review this case. Therefore, there is no Supreme Court decision. Of course, this is a notable state supreme court case, and should remain in Wikipedia, but it is by no means a U.S. Supreme Court case any more than the 5,000 or so other appeals the Supremes decline to review each year. BD2412 talk 02:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Wrong, this was not a simple denial of certiorari, which would not have any precedential value. The case was summarily affirmed.
Upon review, the United States Supreme Court dismissed the appeal "for want of [a] substantial federal question." 409 U.S. 810 (1972).
Examining Precedent of the United States Supreme Court shows the clear and explicit directive that dismissals "for want of a substantial federal question" are binding precedents on all lower Federal Courts.
"[U]ntil the Supreme Court should instruct otherwise, inferior federal courts had best adhere to the view that the Court has branded a question as unsubstantial". Hicks v. Miranda, 422 U.S. 332, 344 (1975)
"[D]ismissals for want of a substantial federal question without doubt reject the specific challenges presented in the statement of jurisdiction." Mandel v. Bradley, 432 U.S. 173, 176 (1977).
Lower Federal Courts are expressely prohibited from ruling in a way inconsistant with binding precedent.
“[Summary Decisions] prevent lower courts from coming to opposite conclusions on the precise issues presented and necessarily decided by those actions.” Mandel v. Bradley, 432 U.S. 173, 176 (1977)
This is explicit not only in the holdings of the United States Supreme Court, but also the holdings of other Circuit Courts.
[L]ower courts are bound by summary decision by this Court ‘until such time as the Court informs [them] that [they] are not. Doe v. Hodgson, 478 F.2d 537, 539 (2nd Cir. 1973)
Baker is binding precedent and until overruled by the United States Supreme Court, it remains that way.
I am simply amazed that someone who claims to be an attorney, doesn't understand the precedential value of a dismissal for want of a substantial federal question.
You may not like the fact that Baker is settled law, but not liking that fact does not reality change. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.11.188.26 ( talk) 06:16, 7 December 2005
BTW: Your Contention that Baker wasn't a decision on the merits is striking, especially considering that Judge Moody in Wilson V Ake stated expressly that Baker was a summary decision, and as such, binding. Judge Moody knows the difference between a denial of cert. and a dismissal for want of a substantial federal question.
Further, Justice Kennard of the California Supreme Court also denies your contention that Baker isn't an established decision of the SCOTUS.
"[I]ndeed, there is a decision of the United States Supreme Court, binding on all other courts and public officials, that a state law restricting marriage to opposite-sex couples does not violate the federal Constitution’s guarantees of equal protection and due process of law. After the Minnesota Supreme Court held that Minnesota laws preventing marriages between persons of the same sex did not violate the equal protection or due process clauses of the United States Constitution (Baker v. Nelson (Minn. 1971) 191 N.W.2d 185), the decision was appealed to the United States Supreme Court, as federal law then permitted (see 28 U.S.C. former § 1257(2), 62 Stat. 929 as amended by 84 Stat. 590). The high court later dismissed that appeal “for want of substantial federal question.” (Baker v. Nelson (1972) 409 U.S. 810.) As the United States Supreme Court has explained, a dismissal on the ground that an appeal presents no substantial federal question is a decision on the merits of the case, establishing that the lower court’s decision on the issues of federal law was correct. (Mandel v. Bradley (1977) 432 U.S. 173, 176; Hicks v. Miranda (1975) 422 U.S. 332, 344.) Summary decisions of this kind “prevent lower courts from coming to opposite conclusions on the precise issues presented and necessarily decided by those actions.” (Mandel v. Bradley, supra, at p. 176.) Thus, the high court’s summary decision in Baker v. Nelson, supra, 409 U.S. 810, prevents lower courts and public officials from coming to the conclusion that a state law barring marriage between persons of the same sex violates the equal protection or due process guarantees of the United States Constitution. The binding force of a summary decision on the merits continues until the high court instructs otherwise. (Hicks v. Miranda, supra, 422 U.S. at p. 344.) That court may release lower courts from the binding effect of one of its decisions on the merits either by expressly overruling that decision or through “ ‘doctrinal developments’ ” that are necessarily incompatible with that decision. (Id. at p. 344.) The United States Supreme Court has not expressly overruled Baker v. Nelson, supra, 409 U.S. 810, nor do any of its later decisions contain doctrinal developments that are necessarily incompatible with that decision... Until the United States Supreme Court says otherwise, which it has not yet done, Baker v. Nelson defines federal constitutional law on the question whether a state may deny same-sex couples the right to marry." Lockyer V San Francisco (Kennard, J. Concurring and Dissenting) (Emphasis Added.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.11.188.26 ( talk) 07:01, 7 December 2005
I removed POV Commentary that doesn't pass legal muster. Baker is binding precedent. Court after Court has ruled such. The case law on Summary Decisions (Appeals dismissed for want of a Substantial Federal Question) is solid and clearly established. Those who favor Same-Sex Marriage may not like Baker, but it remains law UNLESS it's overruled. Ghostmonkey57 01:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)Ghostmonkey57
How could that decision be reversed, would an appeal have to be made directly to the Supreme Court to allow a lower court to hear a challenge?-- Occono ( talk) 18:31, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I reverted a series of edits that are in direct conflict with established case law. The United States Supreme Court has specifically ruled that "a dismissal for want of a substantial federal question" is a decision on the merits. It has been explicitly recognized as precedential time and time again. There is no debating this point. Many individuals confuse a refusal to grant Certiorari with "a dismissal for want of a substantial federal question." The former IS NOT precedential and does not reach the merits of a case. The later IS precedential and constitutes a decision on the merits. While only a summary decision, Baker falls in the later category, and it's binding effect has been noted by several lower Courts. One might not agree with Baker, but only the Supreme Court can overrule it. Ghostmonkey57 ( talk) 07:50, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
There are no "assertions" here. Baker is the controlling Federal Precedent on this issue until it is over-ruled by the Supreme Court. A "dismissal for want of a substantial federal question" is a decision on the merits that is binding on all lower Federal Courts as per Mandel v. Bradley and Hicks v. Miranda. Baker's Precedental value has been noted by numerous courts that have considered this issue. ALL of this is cited and backed up with VERBATIM quotes from the various decisions. I understand that many don't like Baker, but until it is over-ruled, it is the law of the land. Even the Obama administration brief acknowledged that Baker was controlling, as it pertains to the FEDERAL Constitution. State Courts can come to a different conclusion based on a State Constitution, but in interpreting the Federal Constitution on this issue, Baker is the law. Ghostmonkey57 ( talk) 03:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
The problem is that several courts disagree with you -- see the cases discussed below. SCOTUS has not addressed the question of just how binding Baker truely is. Different courts have come to different conclusions. Therefore, it's an open question. To say otherwise in the main article is inaccurate, argumentative, and does not represent a neutral point of view. It represents the point of view that you, Ghostmonkey57, want to advance. That's not what wikipedia is about. I intend to restore the version that establishes the uncertainty of Baker as binding precedent, until and unless the uncertainty is resolved -- either by unanimity in the lower courts (not bloody likely) or SCOTUS pronouncement (also not likely, because any SCOTUS decision will be on the merits and may not even address Baker. Jim Simmons ( talk) 15:38, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Below is a very rough draft rewrite of sections 3 & 4 of the current article. Needs lots of clean up before seeing the light of day (please jump in). See discussion above for background. Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 19:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
UPDATE: I've been cleaning up the first few paragraphs below (less so the litany of quotes that are the bulk of material). In the process, I've deliberately taken the references beyond what's probably called for. If we can agree that any of these passages don't require the extensive quotes/paraphrases, I'd love to trim back on the volume of words in the references. Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 01:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Baker and McConnell appealed the Minnesota court's decision to the U.S. Supreme Court. There, they claimed the Minnesota marriage statutes abridged their fundamental right to marry under the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause, discriminated based on gender contrary to the Equal Protection Clause (also Fourteenth Amendment), and deprived them of privacy rights flowing from the Ninth Amendment. [1] On October 10, 1972, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a one-sentence order dismissing the case "for want of a substantial federal question." [2]
In most cases presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, the court's refusal to hear the case is not an endorsement of the decision below. [3] Because this case came to the court through mandatory appellate review, the summary dismissal is a decision on the merits of the case. [4] As binding precedent, the Baker decision prevents lower courts from coming to a contrary conclusion when presented with the precise issues the court necessarily considered in dismissing the case. [5]
When dealing with precedents like Baker, lower courts may have to guess at the meaning of these unexplained decisions. [1] The Supreme Court has laid out rules, however, to guide lower courts in narrowly applying these summary dispositions: [2]
In applying the guidelines for summary dispositions, federal judges have come to differing conclusions on where and how Baker controls.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit rejected the claim of a Nebraska citizen organization that the state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage offended the U.S. Constitution's Equal Protection Clause, among other provisions. While Baker did not appear in the court's analysis of the decision below, the court's opinion did note in its concluding passage:
(emphasis added in the Bruning opinion, citations omitted.)
Two Florida women who married in Massachusetts claimed that Florida's marriage statutes and the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) violated the due process and equal protection guarantees of the Fourteenth Amendment (and implicitly the Fifth Amendment), [7] among other claims. The judge dismissed the claims against the U.S. Attorney General, in part, because Baker controlled; "The Supreme Court has not explicitly or implicitly overturned its holding in Baker or provided the lower courts, including this Court, with any reason to believe that the holding is invalid today." [8]
Lee and Ann Kandu, Washington residents, were married in British Columbia. They jointly filed for bankruptcy protection. Kandu claimed, among other things, that the portion of the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) that precluded the bankruptcy court from allowing a joint proceeding violated due-process and equal-protection principles under the Fifth Amendment. [9] The court concluded that Baker did not control. Among the distinguishing features the court noted were the dissimilarity between state laws governing marriage licenses in Baker and the federal DOMA and bankruptcy code in this case as well as the possibility that the Supreme Court's decision in Lawrence v. Texas (striking down Texas' [[Sodomy law|sodomy statute]) marked a shift in the Court's "analysis of same-sex conduct." [10]
In state courts, the relevance of a precedent like Baker partly depends on what claims the litigants make. If the litigants claim protection of the U.S Constitution, a U.S. Supreme Court precedent may control the outcome of those claims. If the claims arise under state constitutional provisions, federal precedents may not matter. [11] There are some state courts, however, that treat provisions of their constitution in the same way as the federal courts treat the analogous portion of the U.S. Constitution. [12] In these circumstances, precedents like Baker may control state constitutional analysis. [13]
The Indiana Court of Appeals upheld the dismissal of a case brought by several same-sex couples who challenged Indiana's marriage statutes. On appeal, the couples claimed that the statute violated several provisions of the Indiana Constitution, principally the Equal Privileges and Immunities Clause (Article 1 § 23). The majority opinion (Barnes, J.) concluded its description of Baker with:
The New York Court of Appeals (the state's highest court) rejected claims by same-sex couples that the state's marriage laws were offensive to the state constitution's Due Process and Equal Protection clauses. [14] New York courts treat their Equal Protection Clause as no broader in scope than its federal counterpart. [15]
(citations omitted.) [16] |
(citations omitted.) [17] |
State vs. federal analysis would certainly be a useful addition. One needs to use some caution in treating the topic generally. E.g, some state courts treat some of their constitution's provisions in lockstep with their federal counterparts. The same state may treat other provisions (that have federal counterparts) with ample independent vitality. There are, of course, all kinds of variations between those two extremes (interstitial, dual analysis, etc.). Broad generalizations about state constitutional analysis could be misleading here, but getting too detailed may take us off into the weeds. Please try to strike a sensible balance.
That said, my primary complaint with the substance of the article is that it asserts the application of the Baker is settled law and sweeps broadly. I hope you've found some useful sources to narrow our differences there. Cheers Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 16:44, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
P.S. That was me who just added the citation/source/dubious tags to the live article (forgot to login first). Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 20:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
same issues presented in this action and this Court is bound to follow the Supreme Court’s decision. See Hicks, 422 U.S. at 344-45 (“lower courts are bound by summary decision by this Court ‘until such time as the Court informs (them) that (they) are not.”)(quoting Doe v. Hodgson, 478 F.2d 537, 539 (2d Cir. 1973)); see also McConnell v. Nooner, 547 F.2d 54, 55-56 (8th Cir. 1976); Adams v. Howerton, 486 F.Supp. 1119, 1124 (C.D.Cal. 1980), aff’d 673 F.2d 1036, 1039 n.2 (9th Cir. 1982). The Supreme Court’s holding in Lawrence does not alter the dispositive effect of Baker. See Agostini v. Felton, 521 U.S. 203, 207 (1997) (“The Court neither acknowledges nor holds that other courts should ever conclude that its more recent cases have, by implication, overruled an earlier precedent.”); Rodriguez de Quijas v. Shearson/American Express, Inc., 490 U.S. 477, 484 (1989) (“If a precedent of this Court has direct application in a case, yet appears to rest on reasons rejected in some other line of decisions, the Court of Appeals should follow the case which directly controls, leaving to this Court the prerogative of overruling its own decision.). The Supreme Court has not explicitly or implicitly overturned its holding in Baker or provided the lower courts, including this Court, with any reason to believe that the holding is invalid today.8 Accordingly, Baker v. Nelson is binding precedent upon this Court and Plaintiffs’ case against Attorney General Ashcroft must be dismissed. Ghostmonkey57 ( talk) 14:15, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm struggling to understand why the DoJ's brief in Smelt II merits mention here. As a general rule, I find it questionable to draw from litigants' pleadings (other than the parties in the case being discussed in the article). Given that all of the defendants have now been dismissed from the case (on jurisdictional grounds), we won't have an occasion to see what the court thought of this argument. I recommend deleting this section. Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 23:51, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I removed that section because it does not seem relevant to the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.229.231.30 ( talk) 00:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
The "decision" of the U.S. Supreme Court expressly states that the Court was declining to review this case. Therefore, there is no Supreme Court decision. Of course, this is a notable state supreme court case, and should remain in Wikipedia, but it is by no means a U.S. Supreme Court case any more than the 5,000 or so other appeals the Supremes decline to review each year. BD2412 talk 02:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Wrong, this was not a simple denial of certiorari, which would not have any precedential value. The case was summarily affirmed.
Upon review, the United States Supreme Court dismissed the appeal "for want of [a] substantial federal question." 409 U.S. 810 (1972).
Examining Precedent of the United States Supreme Court shows the clear and explicit directive that dismissals "for want of a substantial federal question" are binding precedents on all lower Federal Courts.
"[U]ntil the Supreme Court should instruct otherwise, inferior federal courts had best adhere to the view that the Court has branded a question as unsubstantial". Hicks v. Miranda, 422 U.S. 332, 344 (1975)
"[D]ismissals for want of a substantial federal question without doubt reject the specific challenges presented in the statement of jurisdiction." Mandel v. Bradley, 432 U.S. 173, 176 (1977).
Lower Federal Courts are expressely prohibited from ruling in a way inconsistant with binding precedent.
“[Summary Decisions] prevent lower courts from coming to opposite conclusions on the precise issues presented and necessarily decided by those actions.” Mandel v. Bradley, 432 U.S. 173, 176 (1977)
This is explicit not only in the holdings of the United States Supreme Court, but also the holdings of other Circuit Courts.
[L]ower courts are bound by summary decision by this Court ‘until such time as the Court informs [them] that [they] are not. Doe v. Hodgson, 478 F.2d 537, 539 (2nd Cir. 1973)
Baker is binding precedent and until overruled by the United States Supreme Court, it remains that way.
I am simply amazed that someone who claims to be an attorney, doesn't understand the precedential value of a dismissal for want of a substantial federal question.
You may not like the fact that Baker is settled law, but not liking that fact does not reality change. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.11.188.26 ( talk) 06:16, 7 December 2005
BTW: Your Contention that Baker wasn't a decision on the merits is striking, especially considering that Judge Moody in Wilson V Ake stated expressly that Baker was a summary decision, and as such, binding. Judge Moody knows the difference between a denial of cert. and a dismissal for want of a substantial federal question.
Further, Justice Kennard of the California Supreme Court also denies your contention that Baker isn't an established decision of the SCOTUS.
"[I]ndeed, there is a decision of the United States Supreme Court, binding on all other courts and public officials, that a state law restricting marriage to opposite-sex couples does not violate the federal Constitution’s guarantees of equal protection and due process of law. After the Minnesota Supreme Court held that Minnesota laws preventing marriages between persons of the same sex did not violate the equal protection or due process clauses of the United States Constitution (Baker v. Nelson (Minn. 1971) 191 N.W.2d 185), the decision was appealed to the United States Supreme Court, as federal law then permitted (see 28 U.S.C. former § 1257(2), 62 Stat. 929 as amended by 84 Stat. 590). The high court later dismissed that appeal “for want of substantial federal question.” (Baker v. Nelson (1972) 409 U.S. 810.) As the United States Supreme Court has explained, a dismissal on the ground that an appeal presents no substantial federal question is a decision on the merits of the case, establishing that the lower court’s decision on the issues of federal law was correct. (Mandel v. Bradley (1977) 432 U.S. 173, 176; Hicks v. Miranda (1975) 422 U.S. 332, 344.) Summary decisions of this kind “prevent lower courts from coming to opposite conclusions on the precise issues presented and necessarily decided by those actions.” (Mandel v. Bradley, supra, at p. 176.) Thus, the high court’s summary decision in Baker v. Nelson, supra, 409 U.S. 810, prevents lower courts and public officials from coming to the conclusion that a state law barring marriage between persons of the same sex violates the equal protection or due process guarantees of the United States Constitution. The binding force of a summary decision on the merits continues until the high court instructs otherwise. (Hicks v. Miranda, supra, 422 U.S. at p. 344.) That court may release lower courts from the binding effect of one of its decisions on the merits either by expressly overruling that decision or through “ ‘doctrinal developments’ ” that are necessarily incompatible with that decision. (Id. at p. 344.) The United States Supreme Court has not expressly overruled Baker v. Nelson, supra, 409 U.S. 810, nor do any of its later decisions contain doctrinal developments that are necessarily incompatible with that decision... Until the United States Supreme Court says otherwise, which it has not yet done, Baker v. Nelson defines federal constitutional law on the question whether a state may deny same-sex couples the right to marry." Lockyer V San Francisco (Kennard, J. Concurring and Dissenting) (Emphasis Added.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.11.188.26 ( talk) 07:01, 7 December 2005
I removed POV Commentary that doesn't pass legal muster. Baker is binding precedent. Court after Court has ruled such. The case law on Summary Decisions (Appeals dismissed for want of a Substantial Federal Question) is solid and clearly established. Those who favor Same-Sex Marriage may not like Baker, but it remains law UNLESS it's overruled. Ghostmonkey57 01:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)Ghostmonkey57
How could that decision be reversed, would an appeal have to be made directly to the Supreme Court to allow a lower court to hear a challenge?-- Occono ( talk) 18:31, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I reverted a series of edits that are in direct conflict with established case law. The United States Supreme Court has specifically ruled that "a dismissal for want of a substantial federal question" is a decision on the merits. It has been explicitly recognized as precedential time and time again. There is no debating this point. Many individuals confuse a refusal to grant Certiorari with "a dismissal for want of a substantial federal question." The former IS NOT precedential and does not reach the merits of a case. The later IS precedential and constitutes a decision on the merits. While only a summary decision, Baker falls in the later category, and it's binding effect has been noted by several lower Courts. One might not agree with Baker, but only the Supreme Court can overrule it. Ghostmonkey57 ( talk) 07:50, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
There are no "assertions" here. Baker is the controlling Federal Precedent on this issue until it is over-ruled by the Supreme Court. A "dismissal for want of a substantial federal question" is a decision on the merits that is binding on all lower Federal Courts as per Mandel v. Bradley and Hicks v. Miranda. Baker's Precedental value has been noted by numerous courts that have considered this issue. ALL of this is cited and backed up with VERBATIM quotes from the various decisions. I understand that many don't like Baker, but until it is over-ruled, it is the law of the land. Even the Obama administration brief acknowledged that Baker was controlling, as it pertains to the FEDERAL Constitution. State Courts can come to a different conclusion based on a State Constitution, but in interpreting the Federal Constitution on this issue, Baker is the law. Ghostmonkey57 ( talk) 03:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
The problem is that several courts disagree with you -- see the cases discussed below. SCOTUS has not addressed the question of just how binding Baker truely is. Different courts have come to different conclusions. Therefore, it's an open question. To say otherwise in the main article is inaccurate, argumentative, and does not represent a neutral point of view. It represents the point of view that you, Ghostmonkey57, want to advance. That's not what wikipedia is about. I intend to restore the version that establishes the uncertainty of Baker as binding precedent, until and unless the uncertainty is resolved -- either by unanimity in the lower courts (not bloody likely) or SCOTUS pronouncement (also not likely, because any SCOTUS decision will be on the merits and may not even address Baker. Jim Simmons ( talk) 15:38, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Below is a very rough draft rewrite of sections 3 & 4 of the current article. Needs lots of clean up before seeing the light of day (please jump in). See discussion above for background. Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 19:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
UPDATE: I've been cleaning up the first few paragraphs below (less so the litany of quotes that are the bulk of material). In the process, I've deliberately taken the references beyond what's probably called for. If we can agree that any of these passages don't require the extensive quotes/paraphrases, I'd love to trim back on the volume of words in the references. Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 01:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Baker and McConnell appealed the Minnesota court's decision to the U.S. Supreme Court. There, they claimed the Minnesota marriage statutes abridged their fundamental right to marry under the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause, discriminated based on gender contrary to the Equal Protection Clause (also Fourteenth Amendment), and deprived them of privacy rights flowing from the Ninth Amendment. [1] On October 10, 1972, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a one-sentence order dismissing the case "for want of a substantial federal question." [2]
In most cases presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, the court's refusal to hear the case is not an endorsement of the decision below. [3] Because this case came to the court through mandatory appellate review, the summary dismissal is a decision on the merits of the case. [4] As binding precedent, the Baker decision prevents lower courts from coming to a contrary conclusion when presented with the precise issues the court necessarily considered in dismissing the case. [5]
When dealing with precedents like Baker, lower courts may have to guess at the meaning of these unexplained decisions. [1] The Supreme Court has laid out rules, however, to guide lower courts in narrowly applying these summary dispositions: [2]
In applying the guidelines for summary dispositions, federal judges have come to differing conclusions on where and how Baker controls.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit rejected the claim of a Nebraska citizen organization that the state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage offended the U.S. Constitution's Equal Protection Clause, among other provisions. While Baker did not appear in the court's analysis of the decision below, the court's opinion did note in its concluding passage:
(emphasis added in the Bruning opinion, citations omitted.)
Two Florida women who married in Massachusetts claimed that Florida's marriage statutes and the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) violated the due process and equal protection guarantees of the Fourteenth Amendment (and implicitly the Fifth Amendment), [7] among other claims. The judge dismissed the claims against the U.S. Attorney General, in part, because Baker controlled; "The Supreme Court has not explicitly or implicitly overturned its holding in Baker or provided the lower courts, including this Court, with any reason to believe that the holding is invalid today." [8]
Lee and Ann Kandu, Washington residents, were married in British Columbia. They jointly filed for bankruptcy protection. Kandu claimed, among other things, that the portion of the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) that precluded the bankruptcy court from allowing a joint proceeding violated due-process and equal-protection principles under the Fifth Amendment. [9] The court concluded that Baker did not control. Among the distinguishing features the court noted were the dissimilarity between state laws governing marriage licenses in Baker and the federal DOMA and bankruptcy code in this case as well as the possibility that the Supreme Court's decision in Lawrence v. Texas (striking down Texas' [[Sodomy law|sodomy statute]) marked a shift in the Court's "analysis of same-sex conduct." [10]
In state courts, the relevance of a precedent like Baker partly depends on what claims the litigants make. If the litigants claim protection of the U.S Constitution, a U.S. Supreme Court precedent may control the outcome of those claims. If the claims arise under state constitutional provisions, federal precedents may not matter. [11] There are some state courts, however, that treat provisions of their constitution in the same way as the federal courts treat the analogous portion of the U.S. Constitution. [12] In these circumstances, precedents like Baker may control state constitutional analysis. [13]
The Indiana Court of Appeals upheld the dismissal of a case brought by several same-sex couples who challenged Indiana's marriage statutes. On appeal, the couples claimed that the statute violated several provisions of the Indiana Constitution, principally the Equal Privileges and Immunities Clause (Article 1 § 23). The majority opinion (Barnes, J.) concluded its description of Baker with:
The New York Court of Appeals (the state's highest court) rejected claims by same-sex couples that the state's marriage laws were offensive to the state constitution's Due Process and Equal Protection clauses. [14] New York courts treat their Equal Protection Clause as no broader in scope than its federal counterpart. [15]
(citations omitted.) [16] |
(citations omitted.) [17] |
State vs. federal analysis would certainly be a useful addition. One needs to use some caution in treating the topic generally. E.g, some state courts treat some of their constitution's provisions in lockstep with their federal counterparts. The same state may treat other provisions (that have federal counterparts) with ample independent vitality. There are, of course, all kinds of variations between those two extremes (interstitial, dual analysis, etc.). Broad generalizations about state constitutional analysis could be misleading here, but getting too detailed may take us off into the weeds. Please try to strike a sensible balance.
That said, my primary complaint with the substance of the article is that it asserts the application of the Baker is settled law and sweeps broadly. I hope you've found some useful sources to narrow our differences there. Cheers Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 16:44, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
P.S. That was me who just added the citation/source/dubious tags to the live article (forgot to login first). Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 20:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
same issues presented in this action and this Court is bound to follow the Supreme Court’s decision. See Hicks, 422 U.S. at 344-45 (“lower courts are bound by summary decision by this Court ‘until such time as the Court informs (them) that (they) are not.”)(quoting Doe v. Hodgson, 478 F.2d 537, 539 (2d Cir. 1973)); see also McConnell v. Nooner, 547 F.2d 54, 55-56 (8th Cir. 1976); Adams v. Howerton, 486 F.Supp. 1119, 1124 (C.D.Cal. 1980), aff’d 673 F.2d 1036, 1039 n.2 (9th Cir. 1982). The Supreme Court’s holding in Lawrence does not alter the dispositive effect of Baker. See Agostini v. Felton, 521 U.S. 203, 207 (1997) (“The Court neither acknowledges nor holds that other courts should ever conclude that its more recent cases have, by implication, overruled an earlier precedent.”); Rodriguez de Quijas v. Shearson/American Express, Inc., 490 U.S. 477, 484 (1989) (“If a precedent of this Court has direct application in a case, yet appears to rest on reasons rejected in some other line of decisions, the Court of Appeals should follow the case which directly controls, leaving to this Court the prerogative of overruling its own decision.). The Supreme Court has not explicitly or implicitly overturned its holding in Baker or provided the lower courts, including this Court, with any reason to believe that the holding is invalid today.8 Accordingly, Baker v. Nelson is binding precedent upon this Court and Plaintiffs’ case against Attorney General Ashcroft must be dismissed. Ghostmonkey57 ( talk) 14:15, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm struggling to understand why the DoJ's brief in Smelt II merits mention here. As a general rule, I find it questionable to draw from litigants' pleadings (other than the parties in the case being discussed in the article). Given that all of the defendants have now been dismissed from the case (on jurisdictional grounds), we won't have an occasion to see what the court thought of this argument. I recommend deleting this section. Wonderbreadsf ( talk) 23:51, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I removed that section because it does not seem relevant to the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.229.231.30 ( talk) 00:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)