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![]() | The contents of the Camp Vance page were merged into Bagram Airfield on 30 September 2018. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
The official webpage http://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil/ now refers to it as "Bagram Airfield" ... this should now end any and all controversy...Searching for "Bagram Airfield" gets 69,000 results...Searching for "Bagram Airbase" gets 55,500 results...Searching for "Bagram Air Base" gets 118,000 results...... and searching for Bagram BAF Army gets 315,000 results
"BAF" is an acronym for ... you guessed it ... Bagram Airfield. I even threw the Bagram and Army in there to cut down on false positives. So I think that should clear up the little numbers game.
If that doesn't satisfy you, searching for "Bagram Air Field" gets 2,480,000 results ... so if we're going to go off google to title pages, let's go with something that's completely 100% wrong but is apparently the most commonly used permutation out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.22.63.1 ( talk) 12:20, 5 September 2010 (UTC) From the Airfield vs. Air Base discussion, it is obvious that Wikipedia is not interested in accuracy so I will not make the change but will simply point out that this first paragraph entry is also inaccurate: “a large part of it is "owned" by the United States Air Force (455th Air Expeditionary Wing). The area under Air Force control (about half of the overall base) includes the flight line, the ramp, and most of the area involving air mission resources.” -- To be accurate, the 455th “manages” airfield operations but ALL of BAF is “owned” by the Army. Also, according the current BAF BCMP, the area managed by the 455th is a little less than one-third of the installation land area which now includes the Eastern Expansion. ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by The-Expose-inator ( talk • contribs) 19:56, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
I have lived on BAF for the last year. I think I know what the place is named. Do you live and work here? Why is my changing the page from the incorrect "Air Base" to the correct "Airfield" an issue with you? Alexif ( talk) 15:00, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Don't be facile. Just because something is commonly used doesn't mean it's right. It's not right. The wikipedia article can (*gasp*) help fix the mistake instead of perpetuating it. Alexif ( talk) 11:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
... and this is just classic. Your little wikipedia page says 'This user thinks that Wikipedia has become too bureaucratic.' ... I'm here, trying to fix a mistake and you're insisting it's not wrong because it has more google hits? You're clearly some crazy wikipedia nerd and I'm trying to fix a mistake. If that's not bureaucracy and if you're not part of the problem, I don't know what possibly could be. Alexif ( talk) 11:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Just wondering why only the 2007 bombing is noted and no other mention of other combat action; while I was there as a U.S. Soldier, we were rocketed, mortared, land mine explosions, small arms firefights, etc. The mention of only the 2007 bombing seems to imply that there was nothing else that happened there and that would be totally incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.0.194 ( talk) 09:36, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Just an example, there were 4 mortar rounds that hit Bagram, one hit the internment facility, a suicide bomber and an IED in one day in 2/2009 (I have to double check the date) but it, like many other incidents, never was reported in the mainstream media- found that info on a youtube.com search of a report from the pentagon news agency. Kind of think it is odd how such action goes mostly unreported but nearly everything that happens in Iraq is reported on the front page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.3.160 ( talk) 15:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Check out this article [ [2]] -do a CONTROL F search of "Bagram" and you will find that landmines are, or at least were when I was there in 2002-2003, a serious concern.
In my oppinion Afghanistan is a much tougher deployment than Iraq in alot of ways. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.14.66.207 ( talk) 01:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking of starting a separate but linked article on the "Bagram Bug". I was one of several U.S. and Coalition troops who came down with the "bug" while in Afghanistan, that was some nasty stuff, vomiting, diarrhea, fever (even lost consciousness from the fever), and body aches. Was treated in the field hospital with IV antibiotics and some other meds for a couple of days and was given about a months worth of Cipro to take as follow-up while back on duty. Problem is, I don't yet know how to start a new article. Any help would be appreciated.
Is is Air Base or Airbase? The article gives both.
—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
203.15.102.65 (
talk)
07:29, 28 February 2007 (UTC).
The bit about Disney Drive is stolen word for word from Global Secuity, linked at the bottom and has therefore been deleted. And i've just noticed most of the history of the base has been stolen from there as well! 62.25.109.195 13:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Soviet last stand?? - can we have some sources, never heard of this battle..
The base is run by the Army which would make it an Air Field> see http://www.bagram.afnews.af.mil/
Not in this case. Army airfields are called such ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_airfields). -- DonSmithnotTMD —Preceding comment was added at 12:27, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Thw white house uses bagram air base instead of an airfield, http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/afghanistan/photoessays/2006/index.html the airfield is inside the base so it's wise to use the main title as bagram air base and airfield may also be added. it's probably obvious to you that both names are used by the military stationed there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by McTools ( talk • contribs) 21:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
The difference between "Air Base" and "Airfield" is a mostly esoteric bit of language minutae that's very military specific. Very explicitly, "Air Base" means "Air Force Installation" ... whereas "Airfield" denotes Army (ie: Hunter Army Airfield at Fort Stewart, GA) ... the constant repition of "Air Base" is a subtle bit of propaganda by the Air Force to try to imply that they are in charge of the base and they're making things happen in Afghanistan -- they're not. If you google it, you'll notice that most Army websites refer to it as "Airfield" and most Air Force websites refer to it as "Air Base". It's not an Air Base, the Air Force is not in charge here.
Be that as it may, it is the incorrect nomenclature. It's like the word "ain't" ... just because it's a widely used part of speech does not make it right. CJTF-82 is the current command in that region of Afghanistan, led by a Two-Star general. www.CJTF82.com refers to the location as "Bagram Airfield" ... the 445th Expeditionary Wing, the largest USAF presence on-post, refers to it (cleverly) as Air Base. Their commander is a One-Star General. And to address an earlier point, there isn't a seperate "Airfield" within the "Air Base" ... it's an either / or proposition, and it's flatly not an Air Force installation. They do not have the ranking general ... they do not run the base ops ... they do not run or man the guard towers ... it does not belong to them, they are tenants. The fixed-wing terminal, when you arrive on-post, says Bagram Airfield. Do you want me to go down and get a picture of it tomorrow? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.25.10 ( talk) 14:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Both AIR BASE and AIRFIELD are mentioned so there's no reason to continue this name dispute. Bagram airfield may be well recognized within the army over there, but air base sounds more meaninful because it's usa's main base for its air force. Bagram is mainly used for military planes, so it's air base. Like the person at the top stated, airfield usually refers to small public airports and air base refers to military controlled airport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by McTools ( talk • contribs) 15:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
They are both mentioned, but Air Base is flat-out factually WRONG. It is not the proper nomenclature. I'm glad that it sounds more "meaninful". I'm glad that the factually correct naming convention will not be used in lieu of what a bunch of civilians thinks sounds neato. I guess how WikiPedia is criticized -- for being incorrect, mob rule, etc. -- is true. Good job! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.25.10 ( talk) 08:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I recently returned from a tour with the Air Force (455 AEW) at Bagram Airfield. It's an Airfield - not an airbase. The official 455 AEW letterhead said "Bagram Airfield." It is true that some people at the wing staff wanted to get people to start calling it "airbase." However, that was never an official change. They even changed their web site to state Bagram Air Base. This, however, was an unofficial change. The official HQ Air Force web site (Air Force Link) still shows it as "Bagram Airfield." http://www.af.mil/sites/ The Army "owns" the base. Therefore, it's an "AIRFIELD." My job required me to send reports regularly to various AF organizations. If I'd changed the name of the installation in the reports, I would have had to enclose a copy of the official change authority - which would have been a Dept of the Army order. I didn't have such a thing and therefore all my reports went in with Bagram Airfield as the official location of the wing. There are Marines at Bagram. But Marines don't own Bagram. If Marines owned Bagram it would be designated "Marine Corps Air Station Bagram." But Marines don't own Bagram. There are sailors there. But the Navy doesn't own Bagram. If the Navy owned Bagram it would be designated "Naval Air Station Bagram." But the Navy doesn't own Bagram. There are airmen there. But the Air Force doesn't own Bagram. If the Air Force owned Bagram it would be designated Bagram Air Base. But the Air Force doesn't own Bagram. There are Royal Air Force people there. But the Royal Air Force doesn't own Bagram. If the Royal Air Force owned Bagram it would be designated Royal Air Force Bagram. But the Royal Air Force doesn't own Bagram. This can go on and on with the different nationalities and services at Bagram. But, the U.S. Army "owns" Bagram. Since the army owns Bagram, Army installation naming conventions require it be designated Bagram Airfield. Air Base is absolutely incorrect. The name of an installation has nothing to do with how built up it is or common usage or any other such thing - the name depends upon what service "owns" that installation and that services installation naming conventions. 137.9.121.122 ( talk) 18:24, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Let's try this again -- go to http://cjtf-a.com. This is the homepage of CJTF-101, who are currently in charge of Bagram. What do they refer to it as? Base or Field? Who's the commander? MG Schlosser. His letterhead says AIRFIELD. No one from the USAF outranks him. When you get off the plane at Bagram, the terminal says BAGRAM AIRFIELD. The acronym for Bagram is BAF. Everyone refers to it as BAF, and no, that's not for Bagram, Afghanistan. This is a weak attempt by the weakest service branch in the US military to try and take credit for more than their due. Sorry, but saying "base" doesn't make the USAF NOT a joke or in charge here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.24.91 ( talk) 15:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I spent a good deal of time at BAF. It's Bagram Airfield and everyone there knows it as such. meinsla talk 06:07, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
-It is Bagram Air Field (aka BAF). Current commanders here, both Army and AF, refer to it as BAF, troops all say BAF, letterheads for USAF docs say BAF, and I would know, being that I'm writing this from one of the B-Huts on BAF. File name / Article name should be adjusted to reflect this. 58.147.139.164 ( talk) 23:00, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Hey, we should change the page for New York City to New Amsterdam because my idiot opinion is that the Dutch are going to reconquer the territory, dur dur dur I'm a big idiot. If your retarded opinion held any water, then we should call it Bagram AIRPORT ... who the hell calls a civilian airport an air base. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.22.63.1 ( talk) 13:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Ignorance is not an excuse! If wikipedia wants to tout itself as a source then get it right. If I get engouh people (mob rule) to claim the moon is made of cheese the moon doesn't just change to guda. WRONG IS WRONG. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.16.115 ( talk) 05:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Please explain more fully the reasoning behing removing this reference. Excising wikipedian called it "unsuitable". I hope they will show the courtesy to explain why they call it unsuitable. Geo Swan 04:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
I am skeptical that the assertion in this edit that the captives were "reasonably well treated" can be documented. Citation please? Geo Swan 04:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Someone created a new article focusing on the Bagram Theater Internment Facility - the detention facility at the air base. I suggest that the articles be combined, since they deal with the same facility. Thoughts? Michael 134.84.96.142 22:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to support a move. JPG-GR ( talk) 16:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Note:This move discussion also affects the article
2007 Bagram Air Base bombing
MickMacNee (
talk)
12:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
This page needs to move from Bagram Air Base to Bagram Airfield. I attempted to move it myself, but Bagram Airfield is already occupied by a redirect page. Look above, there's multiple strong reasons why it should be named Airfield -- you know, like THAT'S WHAT ITS NAME IS -- and multiple poor reasons why -- such as it gets more google hits, or that's what's more commonly used, etc. Bottom line -- the name of the base is BAGRAM AIRFIELD. This page can be correct or it can perpetuate a common mistake. Just because people say "ain't" doesn't make it a proper word. Just because people thought the world was flat didn't make it right.
Alexif (
talk)
11:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Articles are named by most common usage. That is why the article Cat Stevens is not called Yusuf Islam (which is his actual name) and why the article Rhode Island is not called State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations (which is the State's official name). Read Wikipedia:Naming conventions for more information. Kingturtle ( talk) 12:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I am proposing that this article be moved from Bagram Air Base to Bagram Air Field.
One thing that should be noted, while the previous request to move this page from Bagram Air Base to Bagram Air Field was opposed on account that it appeared to be a "pissing contest between the different factions of the US Military, which are frankly not an issue for Wikipedia", I would like to state that I am currently AD USAF, there is a clear distinction in how bases are classified, and this is very much an issue for Wikipedia.
First off, let us review some common abbreviations associated with military installations that primarily support aviation operations, as viewed from a military perspective. AFB (Air Force Base) denotes a permanent USAF CONUS innstallation. AB (Air Base) denotes a primarily USAF OCONUS installation (examples include Ali Al Salem AB, Kuwait, Ramstein AB, Germany). AF (Air Field) denotes a primarily Army run installation focused on providing Army specific air operations, generally revolving around rotary-wing aircraft (helicopters) or small fixed-wing aircraft. NAS (Naval Air Station) denotes a primarily Navy operated installation with an aviation focus. It should be noted that military installations often contain tenant units that may be from another service branch, based upon specific mission requirements.
Now, while anyone who has ever been to BAF would agree that the USAF operates the bulk of Air Traffic in/out of BAF, it should be stressed that this is an Army Air Field, under Army command, directly supporting Army operations in theater. The USAF is simply a tenant unit utilizing this Air Field for it's strategic location in the theater. The US Navy also utilizes BAF for the same reason as the USAF. And yes, while I realize that the official website for USAF operations on Bagram ( http://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil/) refers to it as Bagram Air Base in page title and on the header art, it should be noted that all other references to the location are listed as Bagram Air Field. A quick glance through the text on the home page will make this clear. All Public Affairs news releases say BAGRAM AIR FIELD as well. And for those who will wish to dispute my argument based upon the title in the html coding and the header art, please keep in mind, seeing as how we're having this discussion right now, how easy it is to think AB instead of AF, given the number of USAF installations that have been set up within the past 6 years in support of OEF or OIF.
Reading through the previous comments here it is clear to me that there are two distinct viewpoints on this issue - one from a civilian viewpoint that does not understand the distinctions (and, I'm almost willing to bet has a very limited knowledge of aviation history, specifically military aviation), and then there is the military viewpoint, mostly from personnel such as myself who have been / are currently deployed to Bagram Air Field in support of OEF, be it under the 455th AEW, 755th AEW, or one of the CJTF-101 Army units.
With that being said, I propose that the article be moved to Bagram Air Field. The "common usage" argument does not hold up here. There is clearly enough support, as shown by the comments in the "Air Base or Air Field?" section for this to happen. No matter how trivial an issue may seem, every effort should be taken to ensure every article/subject is 100% accurate. Comnavchaos ( talk) 01:03, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
* To create the foremost reliable and accurate free-content encyclopedia of military history in the English language.
* To improve coverage of military history by creating, expanding, and maintaining articles that describe all of its aspects.
* To provide guidelines and recommendations for such articles, and to serve as the central point of discussion for issues related to military history in Wikipedia.
-MickMacNee, the argument that "Factual accuracy with military terms is never going to be a Wikipedia priority" is clearly in violation of stated goals.
-Kingturtle, please provide a solid reference that "Wikipedia standard is to go with the more commonly used title" is the official policy and stance of Wikipedia.
I am sorry, but obviously both of your arguments have been shot down by facts and solid, indisputable references here. With that being said, let us get back to the opinion of the subject matter experts who have made their points clearly known here. For reference, the definition of a "subject matter expert" in this case is "any person, either civilian or military, who has deployed to Bagram Air Field in support of CJTF-101, the 455th AEW, the 755th AEW, or any other military unit associated with the United States and its allies." All subject matter experts here have made it clearly known that the proper term is "Bagram Air Field."
I can further provide evidence that Air Field is the correct term in the form of USAF Special Order G-10322 issued by United States Air Forces Central (USAFCENT) awarding the MUA to the 455th AEW. The wording used in the citation is proof of this.
I have made my opinion on this topic well known, as by my first post in this section. Further more, I have provided legitimate and valid sources to back my opinion. And to top it off, not correcting the article title from "Bagram Air Base" to "Bagram Air Field" goes against the reliability and accuracy standards of Wikipedia. -- Comnavchaos ( talk) 20:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
The image File:Bagram Theater Internment Facility sally port.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 16:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was not moved. Wikipedia prefers common names, however incorrect they may seem to some, to official names. Aervanath ( talk) 12:47, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Bagram Air Base →
Bagram Airfield — Above are many reasons why this page should be moved to reflect the proper naming of the installation. The name of this base is Bagram Airfield, regardless of what other websites official or not call it. Notably the fact that signs, letterheads -- basically anything on this base that has print refers to the installation as Bagram Airfield. It is known by all who are deployed here as BAF -- Bagram Airfield. It isn't about a pissing match between branches -- I'm in the Air Force. I'm sure a Marine would agree, so would a Sailor. I'm rather disappointed from the above comments regarding this a non-important issue. I wouldn't call Microsoft Micro-soft and tell people the name doesn't matter. It definitely does. This almost appears to be somebody who has no subject matter knowledge trying to tell people who have either been here or people like me who see the signs with Bagram Airfield ON this installation everyday that we are wrong because Google search references say so. -
JE (
talk)
18:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
This page needs to be moved to reflect the true name of the installation. Hopefully aimless bias I've seen above doesn't infect this request again. - JE ( talk) 18:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Let's take a closer look:
==The GIs are reported to have received over a milli on dollars in bribes.== Anyone know the source of this? Please remove if we can't find any info on this.
203.177.249.134 ( talk) 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Look, the naming policy is there so that articles about monarchs and such don't have fifteen word long names including all their official titles and so we don't get edit wars over which name to call Civil War battles. It's not there to ratify a mistake. There wouldn't even be an issue here if people weren't treating a rough rule of thumb as if it were a matter of principle. A.J.A. ( talk) 02:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(common_names)#Do_not_overdo_it: "In cases where the common name of a subject is misleading, then it is sometimes reasonable to fall back on a well-accepted alternative." A.J.A. ( talk) 19:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
This is utterly ridiculous. The place has an actual name, the confusion of ignorant civilians and obnoxious dramamongers aside, and the naming policy is DOD standard. WP:IAR applies -- especially since it's not an actual rule in the first goddamned place. And, based on his comments above, MickMacNee should, at the very least, be thoroughly ashamed of himself: being his usual dramamongering pain-in-the-neck is bad enough, but denigrating -- in an ignorant fashion, no less -- someone who is attempting to contribute to Wikipedia even while serving his country in such an isolated and dangerous post is pretty much beyond the pale. -- Calton | Talk 20:24, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Ronhjones (Talk) 00:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Bagram Air Base →
Bagram Airfield — Well, now the official webpage for the installation has been changed and reflects the actual installation's name. Go check it for yourself.
http://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil. I'm going to go ahead and take the initiative to change the page to reflect this as now there is literally zero ground to stand on at this point to continually call it by the wrong name. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
130.22.63.1 (
talk)
12:06, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Searching for "Bagram Airfield" gets 69,000 results...Searching for "Bagram Airbase" gets 55,500 results...Searching for "Bagram Air Base" gets 118,000 results...... and searching for Bagram BAF Army gets 315,000 results. "BAF" is an acronym for ... you guessed it ... Bagram Airfield. I even threw the Bagram and Army in there to cut down on false positives. So I think that should clear up the little numbers game. If that doesn't satisfy you, searching for "Bagram Air Field" gets 2,480,000 results ... so if we're going to go off google to title pages, let's go with something that's completely 100% wrong but is apparently the most commonly used permutation out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.22.63.1 ( talk) 12:26, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
The destruction of the Soviet memorial is referenced by a forum post. I think this is not in line with the reliable sources policy. Is it possible to find another source? If not that line should go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.244.229.111 ( talk) 17:39, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
I took this out of the into. It's immaterial if other refer to something by an incorrect name -- should we do this for every page, develop an exhaustive list of the incorrect names people use to refer to people, places, and things? If you search for bagram air base on wikipedia you get directed to this page. Anyone with a normal IQ will then be able to understand that they're looking at the information they were looking for. That's more than sufficient. Doing anything more edges us back into the years-long fight to get this page named properly. 130.22.1.253 ( talk) 22:24, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
The Cavalry Division is no longer here, it is now ran by the 1st Infantry Division. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.94.85.2 ( talk) 16:26, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
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Suggesting newly created page Camp Vance regarding be merged into this page. It has minimal content and the Camp appears to be an area of this Airfield. Phil ( talk) 22:01, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
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Can someone move this page to Bagram Air Base? 73.93.153.178 ( talk)
This page was suddenly moved with no debate on the talk page, despite multiple go-arounds on this. I've reverted it. CatCube ( talk) 00:11, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
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Following yet another round of moves, I've move protected the article at admin level. Mjroots ( talk) 18:53, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
When I was deployed to Bagram in 2002-2003 we had multiple mortar and rocket attacks that hit WITHIN the Post; most hit the airstrip but some did hit the living and working areas; I specifically recall a respectable size rocket (not a little RPG round either) hitting within the 82nd Airborne Tent/housing area. Some of these were mentioned in earlier Wikipedia Bagram pages and they were supported with good links to reputable news articles. I also remember taking harassment fire and also even the rare occasions of actually exchanging fire at the checkpoints mostly but not entirely in the 2002’s. I was deployed to Bagram and did missions pretty much all over; so, I wasn’t always at Bagram but when I was it definitely wasn’t the POG palace that it apparently is now. It’s history of being “down and dirty” and “in the fight” should be acknowledged and respected. Thanks for letting me air this little disgruntle. Paulsprecker ( talk) 03:44, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
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![]() | The contents of the Camp Vance page were merged into Bagram Airfield on 30 September 2018. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
The official webpage http://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil/ now refers to it as "Bagram Airfield" ... this should now end any and all controversy...Searching for "Bagram Airfield" gets 69,000 results...Searching for "Bagram Airbase" gets 55,500 results...Searching for "Bagram Air Base" gets 118,000 results...... and searching for Bagram BAF Army gets 315,000 results
"BAF" is an acronym for ... you guessed it ... Bagram Airfield. I even threw the Bagram and Army in there to cut down on false positives. So I think that should clear up the little numbers game.
If that doesn't satisfy you, searching for "Bagram Air Field" gets 2,480,000 results ... so if we're going to go off google to title pages, let's go with something that's completely 100% wrong but is apparently the most commonly used permutation out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.22.63.1 ( talk) 12:20, 5 September 2010 (UTC) From the Airfield vs. Air Base discussion, it is obvious that Wikipedia is not interested in accuracy so I will not make the change but will simply point out that this first paragraph entry is also inaccurate: “a large part of it is "owned" by the United States Air Force (455th Air Expeditionary Wing). The area under Air Force control (about half of the overall base) includes the flight line, the ramp, and most of the area involving air mission resources.” -- To be accurate, the 455th “manages” airfield operations but ALL of BAF is “owned” by the Army. Also, according the current BAF BCMP, the area managed by the 455th is a little less than one-third of the installation land area which now includes the Eastern Expansion. ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by The-Expose-inator ( talk • contribs) 19:56, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
I have lived on BAF for the last year. I think I know what the place is named. Do you live and work here? Why is my changing the page from the incorrect "Air Base" to the correct "Airfield" an issue with you? Alexif ( talk) 15:00, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Don't be facile. Just because something is commonly used doesn't mean it's right. It's not right. The wikipedia article can (*gasp*) help fix the mistake instead of perpetuating it. Alexif ( talk) 11:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
... and this is just classic. Your little wikipedia page says 'This user thinks that Wikipedia has become too bureaucratic.' ... I'm here, trying to fix a mistake and you're insisting it's not wrong because it has more google hits? You're clearly some crazy wikipedia nerd and I'm trying to fix a mistake. If that's not bureaucracy and if you're not part of the problem, I don't know what possibly could be. Alexif ( talk) 11:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Just wondering why only the 2007 bombing is noted and no other mention of other combat action; while I was there as a U.S. Soldier, we were rocketed, mortared, land mine explosions, small arms firefights, etc. The mention of only the 2007 bombing seems to imply that there was nothing else that happened there and that would be totally incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.0.194 ( talk) 09:36, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Just an example, there were 4 mortar rounds that hit Bagram, one hit the internment facility, a suicide bomber and an IED in one day in 2/2009 (I have to double check the date) but it, like many other incidents, never was reported in the mainstream media- found that info on a youtube.com search of a report from the pentagon news agency. Kind of think it is odd how such action goes mostly unreported but nearly everything that happens in Iraq is reported on the front page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.3.160 ( talk) 15:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Check out this article [ [2]] -do a CONTROL F search of "Bagram" and you will find that landmines are, or at least were when I was there in 2002-2003, a serious concern.
In my oppinion Afghanistan is a much tougher deployment than Iraq in alot of ways. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.14.66.207 ( talk) 01:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking of starting a separate but linked article on the "Bagram Bug". I was one of several U.S. and Coalition troops who came down with the "bug" while in Afghanistan, that was some nasty stuff, vomiting, diarrhea, fever (even lost consciousness from the fever), and body aches. Was treated in the field hospital with IV antibiotics and some other meds for a couple of days and was given about a months worth of Cipro to take as follow-up while back on duty. Problem is, I don't yet know how to start a new article. Any help would be appreciated.
Is is Air Base or Airbase? The article gives both.
—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
203.15.102.65 (
talk)
07:29, 28 February 2007 (UTC).
The bit about Disney Drive is stolen word for word from Global Secuity, linked at the bottom and has therefore been deleted. And i've just noticed most of the history of the base has been stolen from there as well! 62.25.109.195 13:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Soviet last stand?? - can we have some sources, never heard of this battle..
The base is run by the Army which would make it an Air Field> see http://www.bagram.afnews.af.mil/
Not in this case. Army airfields are called such ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_airfields). -- DonSmithnotTMD —Preceding comment was added at 12:27, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Thw white house uses bagram air base instead of an airfield, http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/afghanistan/photoessays/2006/index.html the airfield is inside the base so it's wise to use the main title as bagram air base and airfield may also be added. it's probably obvious to you that both names are used by the military stationed there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by McTools ( talk • contribs) 21:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
The difference between "Air Base" and "Airfield" is a mostly esoteric bit of language minutae that's very military specific. Very explicitly, "Air Base" means "Air Force Installation" ... whereas "Airfield" denotes Army (ie: Hunter Army Airfield at Fort Stewart, GA) ... the constant repition of "Air Base" is a subtle bit of propaganda by the Air Force to try to imply that they are in charge of the base and they're making things happen in Afghanistan -- they're not. If you google it, you'll notice that most Army websites refer to it as "Airfield" and most Air Force websites refer to it as "Air Base". It's not an Air Base, the Air Force is not in charge here.
Be that as it may, it is the incorrect nomenclature. It's like the word "ain't" ... just because it's a widely used part of speech does not make it right. CJTF-82 is the current command in that region of Afghanistan, led by a Two-Star general. www.CJTF82.com refers to the location as "Bagram Airfield" ... the 445th Expeditionary Wing, the largest USAF presence on-post, refers to it (cleverly) as Air Base. Their commander is a One-Star General. And to address an earlier point, there isn't a seperate "Airfield" within the "Air Base" ... it's an either / or proposition, and it's flatly not an Air Force installation. They do not have the ranking general ... they do not run the base ops ... they do not run or man the guard towers ... it does not belong to them, they are tenants. The fixed-wing terminal, when you arrive on-post, says Bagram Airfield. Do you want me to go down and get a picture of it tomorrow? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.25.10 ( talk) 14:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Both AIR BASE and AIRFIELD are mentioned so there's no reason to continue this name dispute. Bagram airfield may be well recognized within the army over there, but air base sounds more meaninful because it's usa's main base for its air force. Bagram is mainly used for military planes, so it's air base. Like the person at the top stated, airfield usually refers to small public airports and air base refers to military controlled airport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by McTools ( talk • contribs) 15:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
They are both mentioned, but Air Base is flat-out factually WRONG. It is not the proper nomenclature. I'm glad that it sounds more "meaninful". I'm glad that the factually correct naming convention will not be used in lieu of what a bunch of civilians thinks sounds neato. I guess how WikiPedia is criticized -- for being incorrect, mob rule, etc. -- is true. Good job! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.25.10 ( talk) 08:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I recently returned from a tour with the Air Force (455 AEW) at Bagram Airfield. It's an Airfield - not an airbase. The official 455 AEW letterhead said "Bagram Airfield." It is true that some people at the wing staff wanted to get people to start calling it "airbase." However, that was never an official change. They even changed their web site to state Bagram Air Base. This, however, was an unofficial change. The official HQ Air Force web site (Air Force Link) still shows it as "Bagram Airfield." http://www.af.mil/sites/ The Army "owns" the base. Therefore, it's an "AIRFIELD." My job required me to send reports regularly to various AF organizations. If I'd changed the name of the installation in the reports, I would have had to enclose a copy of the official change authority - which would have been a Dept of the Army order. I didn't have such a thing and therefore all my reports went in with Bagram Airfield as the official location of the wing. There are Marines at Bagram. But Marines don't own Bagram. If Marines owned Bagram it would be designated "Marine Corps Air Station Bagram." But Marines don't own Bagram. There are sailors there. But the Navy doesn't own Bagram. If the Navy owned Bagram it would be designated "Naval Air Station Bagram." But the Navy doesn't own Bagram. There are airmen there. But the Air Force doesn't own Bagram. If the Air Force owned Bagram it would be designated Bagram Air Base. But the Air Force doesn't own Bagram. There are Royal Air Force people there. But the Royal Air Force doesn't own Bagram. If the Royal Air Force owned Bagram it would be designated Royal Air Force Bagram. But the Royal Air Force doesn't own Bagram. This can go on and on with the different nationalities and services at Bagram. But, the U.S. Army "owns" Bagram. Since the army owns Bagram, Army installation naming conventions require it be designated Bagram Airfield. Air Base is absolutely incorrect. The name of an installation has nothing to do with how built up it is or common usage or any other such thing - the name depends upon what service "owns" that installation and that services installation naming conventions. 137.9.121.122 ( talk) 18:24, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Let's try this again -- go to http://cjtf-a.com. This is the homepage of CJTF-101, who are currently in charge of Bagram. What do they refer to it as? Base or Field? Who's the commander? MG Schlosser. His letterhead says AIRFIELD. No one from the USAF outranks him. When you get off the plane at Bagram, the terminal says BAGRAM AIRFIELD. The acronym for Bagram is BAF. Everyone refers to it as BAF, and no, that's not for Bagram, Afghanistan. This is a weak attempt by the weakest service branch in the US military to try and take credit for more than their due. Sorry, but saying "base" doesn't make the USAF NOT a joke or in charge here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.24.91 ( talk) 15:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I spent a good deal of time at BAF. It's Bagram Airfield and everyone there knows it as such. meinsla talk 06:07, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
-It is Bagram Air Field (aka BAF). Current commanders here, both Army and AF, refer to it as BAF, troops all say BAF, letterheads for USAF docs say BAF, and I would know, being that I'm writing this from one of the B-Huts on BAF. File name / Article name should be adjusted to reflect this. 58.147.139.164 ( talk) 23:00, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Hey, we should change the page for New York City to New Amsterdam because my idiot opinion is that the Dutch are going to reconquer the territory, dur dur dur I'm a big idiot. If your retarded opinion held any water, then we should call it Bagram AIRPORT ... who the hell calls a civilian airport an air base. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.22.63.1 ( talk) 13:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Ignorance is not an excuse! If wikipedia wants to tout itself as a source then get it right. If I get engouh people (mob rule) to claim the moon is made of cheese the moon doesn't just change to guda. WRONG IS WRONG. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.16.115 ( talk) 05:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Please explain more fully the reasoning behing removing this reference. Excising wikipedian called it "unsuitable". I hope they will show the courtesy to explain why they call it unsuitable. Geo Swan 04:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
I am skeptical that the assertion in this edit that the captives were "reasonably well treated" can be documented. Citation please? Geo Swan 04:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Someone created a new article focusing on the Bagram Theater Internment Facility - the detention facility at the air base. I suggest that the articles be combined, since they deal with the same facility. Thoughts? Michael 134.84.96.142 22:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to support a move. JPG-GR ( talk) 16:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Note:This move discussion also affects the article
2007 Bagram Air Base bombing
MickMacNee (
talk)
12:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
This page needs to move from Bagram Air Base to Bagram Airfield. I attempted to move it myself, but Bagram Airfield is already occupied by a redirect page. Look above, there's multiple strong reasons why it should be named Airfield -- you know, like THAT'S WHAT ITS NAME IS -- and multiple poor reasons why -- such as it gets more google hits, or that's what's more commonly used, etc. Bottom line -- the name of the base is BAGRAM AIRFIELD. This page can be correct or it can perpetuate a common mistake. Just because people say "ain't" doesn't make it a proper word. Just because people thought the world was flat didn't make it right.
Alexif (
talk)
11:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Articles are named by most common usage. That is why the article Cat Stevens is not called Yusuf Islam (which is his actual name) and why the article Rhode Island is not called State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations (which is the State's official name). Read Wikipedia:Naming conventions for more information. Kingturtle ( talk) 12:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I am proposing that this article be moved from Bagram Air Base to Bagram Air Field.
One thing that should be noted, while the previous request to move this page from Bagram Air Base to Bagram Air Field was opposed on account that it appeared to be a "pissing contest between the different factions of the US Military, which are frankly not an issue for Wikipedia", I would like to state that I am currently AD USAF, there is a clear distinction in how bases are classified, and this is very much an issue for Wikipedia.
First off, let us review some common abbreviations associated with military installations that primarily support aviation operations, as viewed from a military perspective. AFB (Air Force Base) denotes a permanent USAF CONUS innstallation. AB (Air Base) denotes a primarily USAF OCONUS installation (examples include Ali Al Salem AB, Kuwait, Ramstein AB, Germany). AF (Air Field) denotes a primarily Army run installation focused on providing Army specific air operations, generally revolving around rotary-wing aircraft (helicopters) or small fixed-wing aircraft. NAS (Naval Air Station) denotes a primarily Navy operated installation with an aviation focus. It should be noted that military installations often contain tenant units that may be from another service branch, based upon specific mission requirements.
Now, while anyone who has ever been to BAF would agree that the USAF operates the bulk of Air Traffic in/out of BAF, it should be stressed that this is an Army Air Field, under Army command, directly supporting Army operations in theater. The USAF is simply a tenant unit utilizing this Air Field for it's strategic location in the theater. The US Navy also utilizes BAF for the same reason as the USAF. And yes, while I realize that the official website for USAF operations on Bagram ( http://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil/) refers to it as Bagram Air Base in page title and on the header art, it should be noted that all other references to the location are listed as Bagram Air Field. A quick glance through the text on the home page will make this clear. All Public Affairs news releases say BAGRAM AIR FIELD as well. And for those who will wish to dispute my argument based upon the title in the html coding and the header art, please keep in mind, seeing as how we're having this discussion right now, how easy it is to think AB instead of AF, given the number of USAF installations that have been set up within the past 6 years in support of OEF or OIF.
Reading through the previous comments here it is clear to me that there are two distinct viewpoints on this issue - one from a civilian viewpoint that does not understand the distinctions (and, I'm almost willing to bet has a very limited knowledge of aviation history, specifically military aviation), and then there is the military viewpoint, mostly from personnel such as myself who have been / are currently deployed to Bagram Air Field in support of OEF, be it under the 455th AEW, 755th AEW, or one of the CJTF-101 Army units.
With that being said, I propose that the article be moved to Bagram Air Field. The "common usage" argument does not hold up here. There is clearly enough support, as shown by the comments in the "Air Base or Air Field?" section for this to happen. No matter how trivial an issue may seem, every effort should be taken to ensure every article/subject is 100% accurate. Comnavchaos ( talk) 01:03, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
* To create the foremost reliable and accurate free-content encyclopedia of military history in the English language.
* To improve coverage of military history by creating, expanding, and maintaining articles that describe all of its aspects.
* To provide guidelines and recommendations for such articles, and to serve as the central point of discussion for issues related to military history in Wikipedia.
-MickMacNee, the argument that "Factual accuracy with military terms is never going to be a Wikipedia priority" is clearly in violation of stated goals.
-Kingturtle, please provide a solid reference that "Wikipedia standard is to go with the more commonly used title" is the official policy and stance of Wikipedia.
I am sorry, but obviously both of your arguments have been shot down by facts and solid, indisputable references here. With that being said, let us get back to the opinion of the subject matter experts who have made their points clearly known here. For reference, the definition of a "subject matter expert" in this case is "any person, either civilian or military, who has deployed to Bagram Air Field in support of CJTF-101, the 455th AEW, the 755th AEW, or any other military unit associated with the United States and its allies." All subject matter experts here have made it clearly known that the proper term is "Bagram Air Field."
I can further provide evidence that Air Field is the correct term in the form of USAF Special Order G-10322 issued by United States Air Forces Central (USAFCENT) awarding the MUA to the 455th AEW. The wording used in the citation is proof of this.
I have made my opinion on this topic well known, as by my first post in this section. Further more, I have provided legitimate and valid sources to back my opinion. And to top it off, not correcting the article title from "Bagram Air Base" to "Bagram Air Field" goes against the reliability and accuracy standards of Wikipedia. -- Comnavchaos ( talk) 20:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
The image File:Bagram Theater Internment Facility sally port.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 16:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was not moved. Wikipedia prefers common names, however incorrect they may seem to some, to official names. Aervanath ( talk) 12:47, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Bagram Air Base →
Bagram Airfield — Above are many reasons why this page should be moved to reflect the proper naming of the installation. The name of this base is Bagram Airfield, regardless of what other websites official or not call it. Notably the fact that signs, letterheads -- basically anything on this base that has print refers to the installation as Bagram Airfield. It is known by all who are deployed here as BAF -- Bagram Airfield. It isn't about a pissing match between branches -- I'm in the Air Force. I'm sure a Marine would agree, so would a Sailor. I'm rather disappointed from the above comments regarding this a non-important issue. I wouldn't call Microsoft Micro-soft and tell people the name doesn't matter. It definitely does. This almost appears to be somebody who has no subject matter knowledge trying to tell people who have either been here or people like me who see the signs with Bagram Airfield ON this installation everyday that we are wrong because Google search references say so. -
JE (
talk)
18:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
This page needs to be moved to reflect the true name of the installation. Hopefully aimless bias I've seen above doesn't infect this request again. - JE ( talk) 18:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Let's take a closer look:
==The GIs are reported to have received over a milli on dollars in bribes.== Anyone know the source of this? Please remove if we can't find any info on this.
203.177.249.134 ( talk) 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Look, the naming policy is there so that articles about monarchs and such don't have fifteen word long names including all their official titles and so we don't get edit wars over which name to call Civil War battles. It's not there to ratify a mistake. There wouldn't even be an issue here if people weren't treating a rough rule of thumb as if it were a matter of principle. A.J.A. ( talk) 02:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(common_names)#Do_not_overdo_it: "In cases where the common name of a subject is misleading, then it is sometimes reasonable to fall back on a well-accepted alternative." A.J.A. ( talk) 19:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
This is utterly ridiculous. The place has an actual name, the confusion of ignorant civilians and obnoxious dramamongers aside, and the naming policy is DOD standard. WP:IAR applies -- especially since it's not an actual rule in the first goddamned place. And, based on his comments above, MickMacNee should, at the very least, be thoroughly ashamed of himself: being his usual dramamongering pain-in-the-neck is bad enough, but denigrating -- in an ignorant fashion, no less -- someone who is attempting to contribute to Wikipedia even while serving his country in such an isolated and dangerous post is pretty much beyond the pale. -- Calton | Talk 20:24, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Ronhjones (Talk) 00:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Bagram Air Base →
Bagram Airfield — Well, now the official webpage for the installation has been changed and reflects the actual installation's name. Go check it for yourself.
http://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil. I'm going to go ahead and take the initiative to change the page to reflect this as now there is literally zero ground to stand on at this point to continually call it by the wrong name. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
130.22.63.1 (
talk)
12:06, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Searching for "Bagram Airfield" gets 69,000 results...Searching for "Bagram Airbase" gets 55,500 results...Searching for "Bagram Air Base" gets 118,000 results...... and searching for Bagram BAF Army gets 315,000 results. "BAF" is an acronym for ... you guessed it ... Bagram Airfield. I even threw the Bagram and Army in there to cut down on false positives. So I think that should clear up the little numbers game. If that doesn't satisfy you, searching for "Bagram Air Field" gets 2,480,000 results ... so if we're going to go off google to title pages, let's go with something that's completely 100% wrong but is apparently the most commonly used permutation out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.22.63.1 ( talk) 12:26, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
The destruction of the Soviet memorial is referenced by a forum post. I think this is not in line with the reliable sources policy. Is it possible to find another source? If not that line should go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.244.229.111 ( talk) 17:39, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
I took this out of the into. It's immaterial if other refer to something by an incorrect name -- should we do this for every page, develop an exhaustive list of the incorrect names people use to refer to people, places, and things? If you search for bagram air base on wikipedia you get directed to this page. Anyone with a normal IQ will then be able to understand that they're looking at the information they were looking for. That's more than sufficient. Doing anything more edges us back into the years-long fight to get this page named properly. 130.22.1.253 ( talk) 22:24, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
The Cavalry Division is no longer here, it is now ran by the 1st Infantry Division. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.94.85.2 ( talk) 16:26, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
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Suggesting newly created page Camp Vance regarding be merged into this page. It has minimal content and the Camp appears to be an area of this Airfield. Phil ( talk) 22:01, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
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Can someone move this page to Bagram Air Base? 73.93.153.178 ( talk)
This page was suddenly moved with no debate on the talk page, despite multiple go-arounds on this. I've reverted it. CatCube ( talk) 00:11, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
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Following yet another round of moves, I've move protected the article at admin level. Mjroots ( talk) 18:53, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
When I was deployed to Bagram in 2002-2003 we had multiple mortar and rocket attacks that hit WITHIN the Post; most hit the airstrip but some did hit the living and working areas; I specifically recall a respectable size rocket (not a little RPG round either) hitting within the 82nd Airborne Tent/housing area. Some of these were mentioned in earlier Wikipedia Bagram pages and they were supported with good links to reputable news articles. I also remember taking harassment fire and also even the rare occasions of actually exchanging fire at the checkpoints mostly but not entirely in the 2002’s. I was deployed to Bagram and did missions pretty much all over; so, I wasn’t always at Bagram but when I was it definitely wasn’t the POG palace that it apparently is now. It’s history of being “down and dirty” and “in the fight” should be acknowledged and respected. Thanks for letting me air this little disgruntle. Paulsprecker ( talk) 03:44, 16 November 2019 (UTC)