![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
The result of the proposal was not moved. -- BDD ( talk) 18:17, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 21:12, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
BabyMetal → Babymetal – The most common name is still "BABYMETAL", but it is followed at some distance by "Babymetal". Since Wikipedia guidelines prohibit all-caps, I propose to move the article to "Babymetal".
Please move the article cause I don't think I saw the name written as "BabyMetal" anywhere. We should use a way of writing that has been used by reliable sources. The two listed above are the most reliable non-Japanese language sources that don't write it in all caps I've found. -- Moscow Connection ( talk) 01:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC) Moscow Connection ( talk) 01:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.User Moscow Connection has reverted me twice after I tried to add sourced material because he/she thinks its "irrelevant", "incorrect" and lacks sense. Since the explanation of their name is an obviously relevant information, I've added it back, this time with a direct link to the source instead of using Blabbermouth.net and with a minor rewording. I also grouped both new sentences in the same paragraph, since the previous layout was indeed a little confusing. The fact that they are working on a genre they haven't before is also relevant and taken from that same source. Both pieces of information are there, easily checkable. There is simply no valid reason for removing it. More of our opinions on the matter can be read here and here, but I will try to center the discussion here now. Victão Lopes Fala! 17:23, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Due to WP:MUSBIO (#6), since both Moa and Yui are members of "two or more independently notable ensembles," Babymetal and Sakura Gakuin, it should be all good if they get their own articles (that is, if someone wants to make them). -- Prosperosity ( talk) 00:04, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Babymetal which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklist\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 12:14, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Babymetal which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklist\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 15:20, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Enjoy the pictures I'd uploaded on Commons and be sure they'll not be deleted! :D https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:BABYMETAL GUROMETAL ( talk) 16:25, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
I have made various edits that seem to be reverted for some reason, here is the list of edits I made and why:
If there are anymore disagreements with what I've done, please ask why I have done that BEFORE you revert again, I have my reasons for doing so, and if you are in the right, I will correct it myself, otherwise the major differences so far have aided the page, not the opposite. SilentDan297 talk 16:49, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
It would be better to simplify the genres, 'melodic speed metal' for instance is not a real genre, just a means to describe the group, if anything that can just be mentioned in the musical style. Symphonic death metal is a sub-genre of death metal, so again, can go down into the musical style so as we can generalise the infobox, as the template says we should. This then leaves us with the three primary genres, and I'm not sure why this isn't in the musical style in the first place: "J-pop (more precisely, idol music)", this should definitely be mentioned in said section, it should not be there as it is an explanation of how they sound, and also Idol music sounds like another way of saying pop music, and it isn't even a genre, just a way to describe how they sound. Leaving us with Heavy metal, j-pop and death metal. We can leave the references in if you so desire but there's really no point. SilentDan297 talk 20:00, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
I wonder if we can include Twitter or Facebook reactions from notable musicians, and the fact that TheFineBros made a YouTubers React video with Babymetal which sure helped them to become more popular. Lately they opened up an English website and put their music on iTunes and Spotify, and they play at a rock/metal festival in the UK on the main stage and at Lady Gaga concerts in the US, I have to admit that's something. -- Rev L. Snowfox ( talk) 11:33, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Hello guys!! Well, I saw some mistakes in the Discography section. First, the self titled album was also released as CD+DVD, and I guess that is important to put It there. Second, in the Music Videos, MIKIKO (or, in the case, MIKIKOMETAL) was not the director of the video, MIKIKOMETAL is BABYMETAL's coreographer. And third, on the Video albums, the "LIVE~LEGEND I, D, Z APOCALYPSE~" was not released as CD and digital download, just DVD and Blu-ray. Well, I just wanted to say It to the editors here. I just edit in the portuguese article because my english is not that good. I hope you guys edit It! See U! GUROMETAL ( talk) 20:10, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Hello everyone! :D
Why you guys don't try to make articles to BABYMETAL's tours? I did It in the portuguese wiki (with great references). Would be cool if you do It! :D If you haven't seen It, here's the links to
BABYMETAL DEATH MATCH TOUR 2013 -May Revolution- and the
BABYMETAL WORLD TOUR 2014.
GUROMETAL (
talk)
16:50, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
The whole article needs a complete rewrite because it has badly written English. 178.167.254.148 ( talk) 08:30, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
@ Moscow Connection: Only sentences where the web source existed were translated from "特徴" part of Japanese Wikipedia. Could you please revise the following sentences.
-- Moscow Connection ( talk) 03:08, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi guys, I've noticed that throughout the article the girls are inconsistently referred to by the real names and then their stage names and this can easily confuse readers. For example, Suzuka is introduced as her real name, but then is referred to as Su-metal in the "2010–2012" section, and then she referred to as Suzuka again in the "2013–present" section. I think that the article should just refer to the members by their real names throughout (since those are the names of their individual articles) and their stage names should just be put in parentheses when they are initially introduced and in the members section. Azuxingmi talk 13:24, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone - just one little question: why is it that the birth dates & years of the three girls were removed? This is especially important considering the context of "not having heard of metal prior the formation of the group" (or some such; i.e. in 2010 SuMetal was not yet 13, whereas MoaMetal and YuiMetal had just turned 11!). Also, this is important info that allows the reader to keep in mind the current age of the three girls.
Mentarch01 (
talk)
00:11, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Why the order of the members name here is SU-METAL, MOAMETAL and YUIMETAL? The correct order is SU-METAL, YUIMETAL and MOAMETAL.
Probably to you the order isn't important but, believe, this is. You can see when they introduce themselves, they always use this order. I don't know if somebody will correct It but should be better this way.
GUROMETAL (
talk)
02:49, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks to @
GUROMETAL: for his information last time, I got curious to as what the Portuguese wikipedia looks like and what sources it holds, as it turns out, a lot! One particular subject I was interested in was the members of the backing band or Kami band in this instance as it actually has a table of current and former members which I found to be very informative, however looking at the references I couldn't tell who was in the band and who left, it confused me a bit.
Here are the two sources provided:
And in case you was looking for the Portuguese version of this article:
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babymetal
I request that either in the members or the live performances sections have a simple list of the Kami band members, current and former. Perhaps if not done beforehand I will do it myself, but for me, its nearly 3am... I am shattered. Thank you for your time!
SilentDan297
talk
01:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
I think the actual band members ought to be listed on this article. Here is a link with the info for the latest lineup on the 2014 EU summer tour (sorry I'm not great at tagging stuff like im supposed to)
http://babymetal.net/babymetals-kami-band-explained/ — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
84.21.131.205 (
talk)
14:28, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
I think it would be useful to add a sentence listing some famous names who were members of the Kami Band / worked as live backing musicians for BABYMETAL into the "Live performances" section, but I'm against a standalone list of the backing band members. Cause I don't think there is any official information about who plays with the live band now and who played when. It may be that the musicians are meant to be anonymous. Anyway, try to look for reliable sources. Twitter and Facebook don't qualify. Instead of messages like "I play with the band" on Twitter try to find something like "Among the members of the Kami Band, there are such musicians as ... (guitarist from the band ...), ..." in some online music magazine or on a Japanese news website. -- Moscow Connection ( talk) 18:29, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
I guess, it's the same situation as with the band
Buono!. Junko Sugawara played guitar for them and I've just tried to find some reliable sources about that and the best I've found were Buono! official blog posts. But their Japanese Wikipedia article has an subsection for the backing band in the Members section. (I guess fans know the details.)
By the way, rock fans should look into
Buono!. It was created as a
Hello! Project unit (subgroup) to sang songs for an anime called
Shugo Chara! and evolved into a vocal pop rock band. Their must-hear song is "My Boy" (
music video on YouTube). I also recommend "Rottara Rottara" (or "Lotta Love Lotta Love", the guitar riff in it is said to be a tribute to Led Zeppelin) (
music video). --
Moscow Connection (
talk)
02:28, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Babymetal which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklist\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 12:18, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
Why does the discography keep changing? The layout I formatted it into was correct, just look at literally every good or featured discography article and you will see the correct layout, this whatever people are changing it to is completely incorrect and is very messy and cluttered. Please discuss your reasons before you change it again. SilentDan297 talk 01:41, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
OK first things first, I apologise to @
Moscow Connection: for the apparent aggressive behaviour I have shown and for the arguments I have caused, I meant no disrespect or offence from this. The reason I was getting so frustrated was due to the format this particular article was in since I am so use to editing articles in the specific format I have been taught, the edits I made where edits I have made on several band and discography articles In the past and when I first started editing I tried editing differently and I was told it was not supposed to be like that and that all articles had to be similar to remain consistent from article to article, making it easy to read from article to article since they all had a familiar structure and that was what I was trying to do here, make the structure of this article match those of higher standards so this article would also be to the same standard, I wasn't degrading the article by any means I was trying to improve it, It wasn't to make it look in a way I personally preferred I was trying to make it consistent.
Due to the amount of clutter I have caused on this talk page I thought it would be better to start a new clean fresh discussion with separate headings for each topic so as it would be easier to read and make to avoid disrupting the flow of discussions like the way I have in the previous discussion, again I apologise I just got immensely frustrated. Please discuss each different point in their respected sections and I will be sure to respond to them more fairly and not aggressive like I have been previously, I hope we can build the article up much more efficiently together.
SilentDan297
talk
23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
The main issue I have personally remains to be the infobox, it should have just a couple of official genres (referenced of course) instead of six of them, as I have previously explained the following should be removed for these reasons;
Heavy metal and death metal are fine, they are referenced often and are generalised genres so they should remain since they both describe the bands sound well. SilentDan297 talk 23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree with STATic in leaving in Heavy metal and death metal but also Jpop since it is used to describe the band, however once this point was raised I couldn't actually find the genre mentioned in many reliable sources that they are Jpop which baffles me, so due to this I agree, only Heavy metal death metal should be mentioned in the infobox. Also you shouldn't be appeasing to what sounds like fans to have the article in a specific way, they have their own fan bases for that and there is no need to do that here. SilentDan297 talk 21:58, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Although minor I do believe any personal information regarding the members of any musician should remain on their personal articles opposed to being repeated on their associated band/group articles. I do recognise that their ages are a big deal since they are some of the youngest metal musicians known, but that has already been mentioned in the History section of the article so I see it irrelevant and repetitive to mention their birth dates and age in the members section.
I would also like to point out that while their name are in fact in capitals officials, they should be in lower-case throughout the rest of the article, and although
MOS:ALLCAPS doesn't specifically state that names specifically shouldn't be in caps I think its basic principle should still apply and that only the first letter should be a capital but in the members section it should mention that their names are stylized in caps, much like how the bands name should be but is lower caps in the actual article and in the articles title.
SilentDan297
talk
23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Article guidelines is the guideline that answers your questions. Do your sources call dancing or screaming an instrument? You still sadly do not understand WP:OR, oh well. I am not giving opinions, if you would take five seconds to look at any GAs such as Blink 182 or Korn, they do not list occupations or the type of vocals they perform in the member sections. Also no rudeness, I just gave my honest opinion, if you do not like it, oh well. I am not here to help anyone, there was seemingly disruption going on and you do not need to be so uncivil. STATic message me! 11:57, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
You could certainly ask for stronger consensus (or file an RFC, which I (personally) don't think is quite needed at this stage), Moscow, but to use arguments that those were there from the start and your opinion (and opinions of others who apparently haven't chimed in here) are more important because you wrote it and take care of it more is displaying bits of WP:OWN behavior. Can you show us an abundance of reliable secondary sources that specifically use the "scream, dance", etc. bits? Officiality doesn't make a source more reliable by Wikipedia's standards or more important. Piper's Picks says Piper Reese is the "Princess of the Press", but the Wikipedia article doesn't make mention of that title because it's not widely used in reliable sources. I personally believe it's okay to make mention of the types of vocals in a section discussing musical style or something of that type, in prose and backed up by reliable sources. I just think that in a list "vocals" or "vocalist" is best. (And to SilentDan, I'm sorry I haven't chimed in to the question you asked. I've been busy the past few days and I haven't had the time to really think about it. I don't have time right now, either (I've already typed too long and must be off to something else), but I promise to add my thoughts about the other later.) - Purplewowies ( talk) 15:31, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
SilentDan297: Finally got back to this: "Also what is you opinion on the personal information being mentioned? Such as the birth dates and their real names as they have their own articles."
I did some thinking and research (snooping around on higher quality idol and J-metal group articles within the scope of Wikiproject Japan) and... the short answer is a resounding... I don't know. I think it might be fine to mention them by their titles, as an article like
X Japan seems to list the people who go by stage names by those names, but then those are the predominant names those people are known as. Basically, I could see it go either way, dependent on how they might best be known—stage names, or similar to the
Spice Girls, where they are referred to by the band names to establish them but otherwise are referred to by their real names. *wonders if there is some sort of policy on stage name v. real name use* As for the birthdates... every idol group I could find (the highest quality of which on Wikiproject Japan's ratings was
Momoiro Clover Z at B-class) listed birthdates, even for artists with their own articles, so... that seems to be the precedent, though typically, I would say no. I do wonder how much of the birthdate inclusion on idol articles is a byproduct of the industry from whence they came (where everything from birthdate to height and weight and blood type is available (Moa's is A, for instance)), and therefore, I wonder how much is appropriate for Wikipedia vs. how much is included here. I also wonder if there are even higher quality idol articles that might either back up or refute the birthdate angle. -
Purplewowies (
talk)
16:25, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Su-metal, Yuimetal and Moametal should definetly be used throughout the article, official sources merely call them by these names in capitals which we have already discussed should be avoided in the prose. To be honest I think adding the "stylized as SU-METAL" and so on anywhere in the article will make it look somewhat confusing and unreadable, just as you described it if it was in the lead. Also if you look at many band pages under FA status, the members are organised firstly by when they joined the band (From those who where in the band first to the latest additions) then it is secondly organised by name alphabetically, in the case of the artists having surnames its by that, in terms of nick-names I would think it would be by the first letter. I think the members section just needs to lose all that information apart from their stage names and musical talent, the rest is to do with the singers themselves which should only really be mentioned either in the article prose or their separate articles, makes the section easier to read and look a lot more organised. SilentDan ( talk) 22:00, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
It should remain consistent, so far the studio albums table differs to the singles table which differs to the music videos table, it's confusing and inconsistent. I believe it should be in the format I have previously edited in before which follows the examples in the WikiProject Discographies/style article, it's simple, consistent and easy to follow. I also believe that the mentioning of what single is indie and what is major should be on their independent articles or mentioned in the albums article since it can explain how it is an indie single or how it is a major single, I just feel it's out of place here. Also the music videos should mention who directed them, what year they came out, ordered in release (which it already is) and have a link to the official video on YouTube if possible, I don't think numbering each video is required as again it is inconsistent with the rest of the section. SilentDan297 talk 23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Extended content
| |||||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
While It's true I came to STATic for help during my frustration you should have also noticed that I admitted to my aggression and simply asked for a third opinion from a professional, and since he has won awards for outstanding contributions to Wikipedia I naturally felt that having his opinion on these matters would be of great use, he is not fighting you and nor am I, we are discussing with each over. I have removed the notes column on the article itself as we all agreed that it would be best to do so. Also expanding on STATic's point of Japan having is own row heading is somewhat out of place, why does Japan have two charting companies, shouldn't only one be used? Otherwise how do we include both since they are both Japanese? I've never seen this problem before. SilentDan297 talk 21:31, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Any other remarks should be made here. SilentDan297 talk 23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Just a sudden idea and as a means to keeping the article consistent, should Babymetal be mentioned as a group or a band? I think only one should be used in order to keep the article consistent and I also believe it should be group since that's pretty much what they are more regarded as "Babymetal is a Japanese metal vocal and dance group". SilentDan297 talk 11:56, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Will someone make the LIVE~LEGEND I, D, Z APOCALYPSE~ article? I think would be good to do, since It charted. Unfortunately I can't, my english isn't that good. I think someone here should try to do It v(^u^)v.
GUROMETAL (
talk)
16:10, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I think you should add Kiba of Akiba (since they released a CD single together), Pierre Nakano (BABYMETAL played with him live; he's a drummer, and BABYMETAL was invited to play in him concert in December, 2012. They played "Head Bangya!!" together), Kinniku Shōjo Tai (also live performance together; they two held a live concert in the same date and place, in February 2014, and BABYMETAL joined Kinniku's concert and played a song together), ChthoniC (live performance together; BABYMETAL held a live concert in Taiwan, in February 2014, and ChthoniC joined the stage and they performed "Megitsune" together) and Lady Gaga (they'll open 5 Gaga's concerts, as you know). I think It should be shown in the infobox, [I think] It's pretty important.
GUROMETAL (
talk)
17:45, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
@ SilentDan297: About this:
The first release by the group was a song called "Doki Doki Morning" and was included on the Sakura Gakuin 2010 message album by the girl group Sakura Gakuin in 2010 and also released the song "Ijime, Dame, Zettai" through the same girl group in 2011 and would be released as an official singer in 2013. These songs alone gained the group some popularity due to their mixture of metal music, sensational lyrics and their performance which incorporated acts such as the wall of death.
— Sourced from an article on Blabbermouth.net
It doesn't make sense at all. Just awful. Some unrelated random information. (I'm very sorry to say 6this but I think you simply are not qualified to edit this article. Read the explanation below and think about it.)
That said, just terrible. Basically, every single fact is incorrect or misinterpreted.
You can add something about their first song "Doki Doki Morning" having been released as a DVD single in 2010, that the music video for it was uploaded to YouTube and was noticed by metal (and not only metal) fans from all over the world / gave the band some considerable exposure all over the world. The source/sources for this sentence is/are already in the article.
Anyway, it's just sad that the article was practically highjacked by people who don't know anything about the band and make such awful mistakes. I've only briefly returned to revert the two things I reverted and because of what happens here I won't be able to look after the article in the nearest future. -- Moscow Connection ( talk) 20:38, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
@ Moscow Connection: I think the fact the template looks ugly is the point of it so as it stands out and any other passer-by editor can contribute and fix the problem, so until the issue is fixed it should remain there. I have searched for sources regarding their formation and releases made in this period:
I wish I could have found more but I appear to be somewhat limited of time right now so make use of those sources if you think they will help. As for the biography you sourced I think we should avoid using primary sources for this and instead use secondary reliable sources like the ones I listed here, although I'm not entirely certain if they are in fact totally reliable. SilentDan ( talk) 10:34, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
@ SilentDan297:, @ STATicVapor: Could you both stop edit warring and listen to the voice of reason?
I will explain:
重音部 Records (Juonbu Records)
It means something like "Heavy Metal section" Records. Do you understand? The heavy metal section of
Sakura Gakuin, the one that released records as a band called Babymetal. Doesn't it look like the label was created by
Toy's Factory specially for the band?
BMD Fox Records
BMD! (Think!) Babymetal Death! And Fox as in "Fox God" and "Megitsune"! It's too obvious it it's their "personal" sublabel created by
Toy's Factory for them.
And you remove and remove Toy's Factory from the infobox (Toy's Factory is one of the biggest Japanese record labels).
Okay, in order to stop this, I have just replaced the labels with " Toy's Factory". But still, think about what I explained to you, and maybe revert to my original version. |Actually, my guess is that at least one of you doesn't really care about this, doesn't care whether the readers are provided correct information or not, and only wants to make the infobox look "normal".)
I really have no words for what is going on.
SilentDan297, can you understand that you have done more harm than good here and that you edit the article without a proper understanding of very basic things about the band?
-- Moscow Connection ( talk) 13:22, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
(I know this is not directly related with this article, sorry)
Hello guys! I think we should move the article "
Headbangeeeeerrrrr!!!!!" to "Head Bangya!!". Since the release of the album, the YouTube title video changed to "Head Bangya!!"; in spotify the song is also called this way; and in the official band's website, in the discography section, "Head Bangya!!" is used. What do you think about It?
GUROMETAL (
talk)
01:22, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
@ GUROMETAL:@ Moscow Connection:@ Purplewowies: I would like to urge people to move this discussion to Talk:Headbangeeeeerrrrr!!!!! where a discussion seems to already have taken place months ago but has since been inactive and considering this move is concerning this article I think it would make more sense. SilentDan ( talk) 23:14, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
The result of the proposal was not moved. -- BDD ( talk) 18:17, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 21:12, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
BabyMetal → Babymetal – The most common name is still "BABYMETAL", but it is followed at some distance by "Babymetal". Since Wikipedia guidelines prohibit all-caps, I propose to move the article to "Babymetal".
Please move the article cause I don't think I saw the name written as "BabyMetal" anywhere. We should use a way of writing that has been used by reliable sources. The two listed above are the most reliable non-Japanese language sources that don't write it in all caps I've found. -- Moscow Connection ( talk) 01:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC) Moscow Connection ( talk) 01:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.User Moscow Connection has reverted me twice after I tried to add sourced material because he/she thinks its "irrelevant", "incorrect" and lacks sense. Since the explanation of their name is an obviously relevant information, I've added it back, this time with a direct link to the source instead of using Blabbermouth.net and with a minor rewording. I also grouped both new sentences in the same paragraph, since the previous layout was indeed a little confusing. The fact that they are working on a genre they haven't before is also relevant and taken from that same source. Both pieces of information are there, easily checkable. There is simply no valid reason for removing it. More of our opinions on the matter can be read here and here, but I will try to center the discussion here now. Victão Lopes Fala! 17:23, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Due to WP:MUSBIO (#6), since both Moa and Yui are members of "two or more independently notable ensembles," Babymetal and Sakura Gakuin, it should be all good if they get their own articles (that is, if someone wants to make them). -- Prosperosity ( talk) 00:04, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Babymetal which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklist\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 12:14, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Babymetal which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklist\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 15:20, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Enjoy the pictures I'd uploaded on Commons and be sure they'll not be deleted! :D https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:BABYMETAL GUROMETAL ( talk) 16:25, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
I have made various edits that seem to be reverted for some reason, here is the list of edits I made and why:
If there are anymore disagreements with what I've done, please ask why I have done that BEFORE you revert again, I have my reasons for doing so, and if you are in the right, I will correct it myself, otherwise the major differences so far have aided the page, not the opposite. SilentDan297 talk 16:49, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
It would be better to simplify the genres, 'melodic speed metal' for instance is not a real genre, just a means to describe the group, if anything that can just be mentioned in the musical style. Symphonic death metal is a sub-genre of death metal, so again, can go down into the musical style so as we can generalise the infobox, as the template says we should. This then leaves us with the three primary genres, and I'm not sure why this isn't in the musical style in the first place: "J-pop (more precisely, idol music)", this should definitely be mentioned in said section, it should not be there as it is an explanation of how they sound, and also Idol music sounds like another way of saying pop music, and it isn't even a genre, just a way to describe how they sound. Leaving us with Heavy metal, j-pop and death metal. We can leave the references in if you so desire but there's really no point. SilentDan297 talk 20:00, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
I wonder if we can include Twitter or Facebook reactions from notable musicians, and the fact that TheFineBros made a YouTubers React video with Babymetal which sure helped them to become more popular. Lately they opened up an English website and put their music on iTunes and Spotify, and they play at a rock/metal festival in the UK on the main stage and at Lady Gaga concerts in the US, I have to admit that's something. -- Rev L. Snowfox ( talk) 11:33, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Hello guys!! Well, I saw some mistakes in the Discography section. First, the self titled album was also released as CD+DVD, and I guess that is important to put It there. Second, in the Music Videos, MIKIKO (or, in the case, MIKIKOMETAL) was not the director of the video, MIKIKOMETAL is BABYMETAL's coreographer. And third, on the Video albums, the "LIVE~LEGEND I, D, Z APOCALYPSE~" was not released as CD and digital download, just DVD and Blu-ray. Well, I just wanted to say It to the editors here. I just edit in the portuguese article because my english is not that good. I hope you guys edit It! See U! GUROMETAL ( talk) 20:10, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Hello everyone! :D
Why you guys don't try to make articles to BABYMETAL's tours? I did It in the portuguese wiki (with great references). Would be cool if you do It! :D If you haven't seen It, here's the links to
BABYMETAL DEATH MATCH TOUR 2013 -May Revolution- and the
BABYMETAL WORLD TOUR 2014.
GUROMETAL (
talk)
16:50, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
The whole article needs a complete rewrite because it has badly written English. 178.167.254.148 ( talk) 08:30, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
@ Moscow Connection: Only sentences where the web source existed were translated from "特徴" part of Japanese Wikipedia. Could you please revise the following sentences.
-- Moscow Connection ( talk) 03:08, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi guys, I've noticed that throughout the article the girls are inconsistently referred to by the real names and then their stage names and this can easily confuse readers. For example, Suzuka is introduced as her real name, but then is referred to as Su-metal in the "2010–2012" section, and then she referred to as Suzuka again in the "2013–present" section. I think that the article should just refer to the members by their real names throughout (since those are the names of their individual articles) and their stage names should just be put in parentheses when they are initially introduced and in the members section. Azuxingmi talk 13:24, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone - just one little question: why is it that the birth dates & years of the three girls were removed? This is especially important considering the context of "not having heard of metal prior the formation of the group" (or some such; i.e. in 2010 SuMetal was not yet 13, whereas MoaMetal and YuiMetal had just turned 11!). Also, this is important info that allows the reader to keep in mind the current age of the three girls.
Mentarch01 (
talk)
00:11, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Why the order of the members name here is SU-METAL, MOAMETAL and YUIMETAL? The correct order is SU-METAL, YUIMETAL and MOAMETAL.
Probably to you the order isn't important but, believe, this is. You can see when they introduce themselves, they always use this order. I don't know if somebody will correct It but should be better this way.
GUROMETAL (
talk)
02:49, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks to @
GUROMETAL: for his information last time, I got curious to as what the Portuguese wikipedia looks like and what sources it holds, as it turns out, a lot! One particular subject I was interested in was the members of the backing band or Kami band in this instance as it actually has a table of current and former members which I found to be very informative, however looking at the references I couldn't tell who was in the band and who left, it confused me a bit.
Here are the two sources provided:
And in case you was looking for the Portuguese version of this article:
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babymetal
I request that either in the members or the live performances sections have a simple list of the Kami band members, current and former. Perhaps if not done beforehand I will do it myself, but for me, its nearly 3am... I am shattered. Thank you for your time!
SilentDan297
talk
01:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
I think the actual band members ought to be listed on this article. Here is a link with the info for the latest lineup on the 2014 EU summer tour (sorry I'm not great at tagging stuff like im supposed to)
http://babymetal.net/babymetals-kami-band-explained/ — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
84.21.131.205 (
talk)
14:28, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
I think it would be useful to add a sentence listing some famous names who were members of the Kami Band / worked as live backing musicians for BABYMETAL into the "Live performances" section, but I'm against a standalone list of the backing band members. Cause I don't think there is any official information about who plays with the live band now and who played when. It may be that the musicians are meant to be anonymous. Anyway, try to look for reliable sources. Twitter and Facebook don't qualify. Instead of messages like "I play with the band" on Twitter try to find something like "Among the members of the Kami Band, there are such musicians as ... (guitarist from the band ...), ..." in some online music magazine or on a Japanese news website. -- Moscow Connection ( talk) 18:29, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
I guess, it's the same situation as with the band
Buono!. Junko Sugawara played guitar for them and I've just tried to find some reliable sources about that and the best I've found were Buono! official blog posts. But their Japanese Wikipedia article has an subsection for the backing band in the Members section. (I guess fans know the details.)
By the way, rock fans should look into
Buono!. It was created as a
Hello! Project unit (subgroup) to sang songs for an anime called
Shugo Chara! and evolved into a vocal pop rock band. Their must-hear song is "My Boy" (
music video on YouTube). I also recommend "Rottara Rottara" (or "Lotta Love Lotta Love", the guitar riff in it is said to be a tribute to Led Zeppelin) (
music video). --
Moscow Connection (
talk)
02:28, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Babymetal which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklist\bt\.co\b
on the global blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 12:18, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
Why does the discography keep changing? The layout I formatted it into was correct, just look at literally every good or featured discography article and you will see the correct layout, this whatever people are changing it to is completely incorrect and is very messy and cluttered. Please discuss your reasons before you change it again. SilentDan297 talk 01:41, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
OK first things first, I apologise to @
Moscow Connection: for the apparent aggressive behaviour I have shown and for the arguments I have caused, I meant no disrespect or offence from this. The reason I was getting so frustrated was due to the format this particular article was in since I am so use to editing articles in the specific format I have been taught, the edits I made where edits I have made on several band and discography articles In the past and when I first started editing I tried editing differently and I was told it was not supposed to be like that and that all articles had to be similar to remain consistent from article to article, making it easy to read from article to article since they all had a familiar structure and that was what I was trying to do here, make the structure of this article match those of higher standards so this article would also be to the same standard, I wasn't degrading the article by any means I was trying to improve it, It wasn't to make it look in a way I personally preferred I was trying to make it consistent.
Due to the amount of clutter I have caused on this talk page I thought it would be better to start a new clean fresh discussion with separate headings for each topic so as it would be easier to read and make to avoid disrupting the flow of discussions like the way I have in the previous discussion, again I apologise I just got immensely frustrated. Please discuss each different point in their respected sections and I will be sure to respond to them more fairly and not aggressive like I have been previously, I hope we can build the article up much more efficiently together.
SilentDan297
talk
23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
The main issue I have personally remains to be the infobox, it should have just a couple of official genres (referenced of course) instead of six of them, as I have previously explained the following should be removed for these reasons;
Heavy metal and death metal are fine, they are referenced often and are generalised genres so they should remain since they both describe the bands sound well. SilentDan297 talk 23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree with STATic in leaving in Heavy metal and death metal but also Jpop since it is used to describe the band, however once this point was raised I couldn't actually find the genre mentioned in many reliable sources that they are Jpop which baffles me, so due to this I agree, only Heavy metal death metal should be mentioned in the infobox. Also you shouldn't be appeasing to what sounds like fans to have the article in a specific way, they have their own fan bases for that and there is no need to do that here. SilentDan297 talk 21:58, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Although minor I do believe any personal information regarding the members of any musician should remain on their personal articles opposed to being repeated on their associated band/group articles. I do recognise that their ages are a big deal since they are some of the youngest metal musicians known, but that has already been mentioned in the History section of the article so I see it irrelevant and repetitive to mention their birth dates and age in the members section.
I would also like to point out that while their name are in fact in capitals officials, they should be in lower-case throughout the rest of the article, and although
MOS:ALLCAPS doesn't specifically state that names specifically shouldn't be in caps I think its basic principle should still apply and that only the first letter should be a capital but in the members section it should mention that their names are stylized in caps, much like how the bands name should be but is lower caps in the actual article and in the articles title.
SilentDan297
talk
23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Article guidelines is the guideline that answers your questions. Do your sources call dancing or screaming an instrument? You still sadly do not understand WP:OR, oh well. I am not giving opinions, if you would take five seconds to look at any GAs such as Blink 182 or Korn, they do not list occupations or the type of vocals they perform in the member sections. Also no rudeness, I just gave my honest opinion, if you do not like it, oh well. I am not here to help anyone, there was seemingly disruption going on and you do not need to be so uncivil. STATic message me! 11:57, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
You could certainly ask for stronger consensus (or file an RFC, which I (personally) don't think is quite needed at this stage), Moscow, but to use arguments that those were there from the start and your opinion (and opinions of others who apparently haven't chimed in here) are more important because you wrote it and take care of it more is displaying bits of WP:OWN behavior. Can you show us an abundance of reliable secondary sources that specifically use the "scream, dance", etc. bits? Officiality doesn't make a source more reliable by Wikipedia's standards or more important. Piper's Picks says Piper Reese is the "Princess of the Press", but the Wikipedia article doesn't make mention of that title because it's not widely used in reliable sources. I personally believe it's okay to make mention of the types of vocals in a section discussing musical style or something of that type, in prose and backed up by reliable sources. I just think that in a list "vocals" or "vocalist" is best. (And to SilentDan, I'm sorry I haven't chimed in to the question you asked. I've been busy the past few days and I haven't had the time to really think about it. I don't have time right now, either (I've already typed too long and must be off to something else), but I promise to add my thoughts about the other later.) - Purplewowies ( talk) 15:31, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
SilentDan297: Finally got back to this: "Also what is you opinion on the personal information being mentioned? Such as the birth dates and their real names as they have their own articles."
I did some thinking and research (snooping around on higher quality idol and J-metal group articles within the scope of Wikiproject Japan) and... the short answer is a resounding... I don't know. I think it might be fine to mention them by their titles, as an article like
X Japan seems to list the people who go by stage names by those names, but then those are the predominant names those people are known as. Basically, I could see it go either way, dependent on how they might best be known—stage names, or similar to the
Spice Girls, where they are referred to by the band names to establish them but otherwise are referred to by their real names. *wonders if there is some sort of policy on stage name v. real name use* As for the birthdates... every idol group I could find (the highest quality of which on Wikiproject Japan's ratings was
Momoiro Clover Z at B-class) listed birthdates, even for artists with their own articles, so... that seems to be the precedent, though typically, I would say no. I do wonder how much of the birthdate inclusion on idol articles is a byproduct of the industry from whence they came (where everything from birthdate to height and weight and blood type is available (Moa's is A, for instance)), and therefore, I wonder how much is appropriate for Wikipedia vs. how much is included here. I also wonder if there are even higher quality idol articles that might either back up or refute the birthdate angle. -
Purplewowies (
talk)
16:25, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Su-metal, Yuimetal and Moametal should definetly be used throughout the article, official sources merely call them by these names in capitals which we have already discussed should be avoided in the prose. To be honest I think adding the "stylized as SU-METAL" and so on anywhere in the article will make it look somewhat confusing and unreadable, just as you described it if it was in the lead. Also if you look at many band pages under FA status, the members are organised firstly by when they joined the band (From those who where in the band first to the latest additions) then it is secondly organised by name alphabetically, in the case of the artists having surnames its by that, in terms of nick-names I would think it would be by the first letter. I think the members section just needs to lose all that information apart from their stage names and musical talent, the rest is to do with the singers themselves which should only really be mentioned either in the article prose or their separate articles, makes the section easier to read and look a lot more organised. SilentDan ( talk) 22:00, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
It should remain consistent, so far the studio albums table differs to the singles table which differs to the music videos table, it's confusing and inconsistent. I believe it should be in the format I have previously edited in before which follows the examples in the WikiProject Discographies/style article, it's simple, consistent and easy to follow. I also believe that the mentioning of what single is indie and what is major should be on their independent articles or mentioned in the albums article since it can explain how it is an indie single or how it is a major single, I just feel it's out of place here. Also the music videos should mention who directed them, what year they came out, ordered in release (which it already is) and have a link to the official video on YouTube if possible, I don't think numbering each video is required as again it is inconsistent with the rest of the section. SilentDan297 talk 23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Extended content
| |||||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
While It's true I came to STATic for help during my frustration you should have also noticed that I admitted to my aggression and simply asked for a third opinion from a professional, and since he has won awards for outstanding contributions to Wikipedia I naturally felt that having his opinion on these matters would be of great use, he is not fighting you and nor am I, we are discussing with each over. I have removed the notes column on the article itself as we all agreed that it would be best to do so. Also expanding on STATic's point of Japan having is own row heading is somewhat out of place, why does Japan have two charting companies, shouldn't only one be used? Otherwise how do we include both since they are both Japanese? I've never seen this problem before. SilentDan297 talk 21:31, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Any other remarks should be made here. SilentDan297 talk 23:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Just a sudden idea and as a means to keeping the article consistent, should Babymetal be mentioned as a group or a band? I think only one should be used in order to keep the article consistent and I also believe it should be group since that's pretty much what they are more regarded as "Babymetal is a Japanese metal vocal and dance group". SilentDan297 talk 11:56, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Will someone make the LIVE~LEGEND I, D, Z APOCALYPSE~ article? I think would be good to do, since It charted. Unfortunately I can't, my english isn't that good. I think someone here should try to do It v(^u^)v.
GUROMETAL (
talk)
16:10, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I think you should add Kiba of Akiba (since they released a CD single together), Pierre Nakano (BABYMETAL played with him live; he's a drummer, and BABYMETAL was invited to play in him concert in December, 2012. They played "Head Bangya!!" together), Kinniku Shōjo Tai (also live performance together; they two held a live concert in the same date and place, in February 2014, and BABYMETAL joined Kinniku's concert and played a song together), ChthoniC (live performance together; BABYMETAL held a live concert in Taiwan, in February 2014, and ChthoniC joined the stage and they performed "Megitsune" together) and Lady Gaga (they'll open 5 Gaga's concerts, as you know). I think It should be shown in the infobox, [I think] It's pretty important.
GUROMETAL (
talk)
17:45, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
@ SilentDan297: About this:
The first release by the group was a song called "Doki Doki Morning" and was included on the Sakura Gakuin 2010 message album by the girl group Sakura Gakuin in 2010 and also released the song "Ijime, Dame, Zettai" through the same girl group in 2011 and would be released as an official singer in 2013. These songs alone gained the group some popularity due to their mixture of metal music, sensational lyrics and their performance which incorporated acts such as the wall of death.
— Sourced from an article on Blabbermouth.net
It doesn't make sense at all. Just awful. Some unrelated random information. (I'm very sorry to say 6this but I think you simply are not qualified to edit this article. Read the explanation below and think about it.)
That said, just terrible. Basically, every single fact is incorrect or misinterpreted.
You can add something about their first song "Doki Doki Morning" having been released as a DVD single in 2010, that the music video for it was uploaded to YouTube and was noticed by metal (and not only metal) fans from all over the world / gave the band some considerable exposure all over the world. The source/sources for this sentence is/are already in the article.
Anyway, it's just sad that the article was practically highjacked by people who don't know anything about the band and make such awful mistakes. I've only briefly returned to revert the two things I reverted and because of what happens here I won't be able to look after the article in the nearest future. -- Moscow Connection ( talk) 20:38, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
@ Moscow Connection: I think the fact the template looks ugly is the point of it so as it stands out and any other passer-by editor can contribute and fix the problem, so until the issue is fixed it should remain there. I have searched for sources regarding their formation and releases made in this period:
I wish I could have found more but I appear to be somewhat limited of time right now so make use of those sources if you think they will help. As for the biography you sourced I think we should avoid using primary sources for this and instead use secondary reliable sources like the ones I listed here, although I'm not entirely certain if they are in fact totally reliable. SilentDan ( talk) 10:34, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
@ SilentDan297:, @ STATicVapor: Could you both stop edit warring and listen to the voice of reason?
I will explain:
重音部 Records (Juonbu Records)
It means something like "Heavy Metal section" Records. Do you understand? The heavy metal section of
Sakura Gakuin, the one that released records as a band called Babymetal. Doesn't it look like the label was created by
Toy's Factory specially for the band?
BMD Fox Records
BMD! (Think!) Babymetal Death! And Fox as in "Fox God" and "Megitsune"! It's too obvious it it's their "personal" sublabel created by
Toy's Factory for them.
And you remove and remove Toy's Factory from the infobox (Toy's Factory is one of the biggest Japanese record labels).
Okay, in order to stop this, I have just replaced the labels with " Toy's Factory". But still, think about what I explained to you, and maybe revert to my original version. |Actually, my guess is that at least one of you doesn't really care about this, doesn't care whether the readers are provided correct information or not, and only wants to make the infobox look "normal".)
I really have no words for what is going on.
SilentDan297, can you understand that you have done more harm than good here and that you edit the article without a proper understanding of very basic things about the band?
-- Moscow Connection ( talk) 13:22, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
(I know this is not directly related with this article, sorry)
Hello guys! I think we should move the article "
Headbangeeeeerrrrr!!!!!" to "Head Bangya!!". Since the release of the album, the YouTube title video changed to "Head Bangya!!"; in spotify the song is also called this way; and in the official band's website, in the discography section, "Head Bangya!!" is used. What do you think about It?
GUROMETAL (
talk)
01:22, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
@ GUROMETAL:@ Moscow Connection:@ Purplewowies: I would like to urge people to move this discussion to Talk:Headbangeeeeerrrrr!!!!! where a discussion seems to already have taken place months ago but has since been inactive and considering this move is concerning this article I think it would make more sense. SilentDan ( talk) 23:14, 6 August 2014 (UTC)