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For the section "Foreigner talk" I'm not so sure if that is similar to Baby Talk, more so than Cave-man like talk. Usually people do not use high pitches nor do they use repeat single syllable words to refer to things like "boo-boo" when speaking to a foreigner (Usually because those may be culture specific vocabulary that other cultures may not understand). Some other things I noticed also were for the examples of Baby Talk. It might be a good idea to have examples from other languages as well, including phonetic reading, just to get a better idea of baby talk. For the sections "Phonology" and "Syntax", maybe some diagrams or trees would be helpful. Jcjjfu52 ( talk) 04:47, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
This article should be titled more appropriately towards the linguistic terminology, such as Child Directed Speech or Infant Directed Speech. The general description of the term “Baby Talk” is vague and unstructured concerning facts and content. The “Purpose and Implications” section could use some organization within subcategories to break up the paragraphs to make it easier to navigate the different ideas. Give less examples of “Baby Talk” in the “Vocabulary and Structure” section, maybe limit it to 10-15 examples.
Contko ( talk) 00:05, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I think it's interesting how words such as "mother", "father", "dad" etc probably are derived from Baby Talk... But that is likely(?) from babies, themselves, rather than their mothers. Maybe we could add something about that...
I removed the reference quoting the researcher regarding baby talk being similar to poetry. It's not a mainstream idea at this time, and I don't think it's appropriate for an article on such a general topic to quote one single researcher on recent findings, especially subjective or controversial findings. That should be left to magazine or newspaper articles. Jeeves 18:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Um... Why "especially mothers"? Alveolate 06:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I was extremely disappointed to see that this article has (essentially) no information about the many societies that don't use CDL. I suppose I'll have to dredge through my bookshelf to get more, but here's a snippet from Language Development by Erika Hoff (Wadsworth, 2005, p. 117):
The studies cited are:
I guess I'll try and chase those down when I get a chance. This data should really be in here. It's appalling that it's not. 69.140.12.199 18:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I recently removed a "Sex and the City" reference that involved the mention of "Titty Witties," feeling this was inappropriate and could be found offensive by someone who stumbles upon it unknowingly. Just wanted to get peoples' opinions on this matter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.249.66.23 ( talk) 00:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC).
Maybe someone who's informed could provide some theories as to *why* people use CDS with babies and children?
Retitling it "examples in literature" and using those for which a reference is clear (it not explicit). I don't see any indication here or in edit comments of why it was removed. It is useful in documenting the way baby talk is used in dialogue, and as indicating its cultural universality at least in the English-speaking world. It also shows how perfectly recognizable a 1917 example is to modern ears. Dpbsmith (talk) 19:31, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
The most recent editions appear to be more pronunciations than actual words... should they not be removed unless they can be found in actual dictionaries. Hesitant to do it myself though. 198.54.202.242 ( talk) 11:29, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move to baby talk as the common name for the topic.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 12:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Child-directed speech → Baby language — item of psycholinguistics with ancient denomination Caceo ( talk) 13:40, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
SITUATION CHANGED
I put off the move question to a later time, to see the evolution of the new articles. -- Caceo ( talk) 00:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I believe this talk page should be moved, as well (though for that matter, I really believe the above was a "no consensus", too, so...). -- LjL ( talk) 13:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
We are working on updating this page for our college Psychology class, Psychology of Language. As changes are made we will post them to this page for editing and feedback. We look forward to expanding the depth of this topic on Wikipedia. Ahartlin ( talk) 13:49, 15 March 2012 (UTC) Kfinsand ( talk) 13:53, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm so sorry iof I deleted anyones comments, I thought you were supposed to delete it so you could add in your comment, I was completely unaware, I guess u can say i'm a newbe to wikipedia an im only doin it for a project. so sorry :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by Princesspaperieca ( talk • contribs) 22:58, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article on “Baby Talk” or “Infant Directed Speech” describes this practice as the use of high pitched speech with short words to communicate most often with children. In addition, the article outlines alternative names for this method of speech. Possible purposes of “baby talk” include that babies are more likely to respond to this method and prefer to listen to this type of speech. “Baby talk” also aids infants in their ability to learn words as they are usually in simplified forms as well as providing a base for infants to understand the fundamental attributes of language structure. Further, “baby talk” has been linked to the development of the ability of children to ask questions. This article includes a section regarding universality of “baby talk”. However, this particular section needs to be expanded and will be a major site of revision through this project. We hope to include a section on differences by region regarding this topic as well. The article highlights that “baby talk” is not solely used with infants and can be used in communication with foreign language, in a condescending manner, or with pets. This Wikipedia article also includes a list of vocabulary often used in “baby talk” which may need to be condensed. This does not allow the reader to understand the implications or structure of baby talk, rather simply provides a list of examples. We hope to expand this article to include additional specifics about the characteristics of “baby talk”, adding phonology and syntax sections to the vocabulary section, and, finally, add a section outlining the implications of “baby talk” in order to provide a more comprehensive view of effects. This may include, but is not limited to, how “baby talk” impacts word recognition, social preferences, and aids cognitive development.
Below is a list of sources that will be applicable to these updates:
Green, J. R., Nip, I. S. B., Wilson, E. M., Mefferd, A. S., & Yunusova, Y. (2010). Lip movement exaggerations during infant-directed speech. Journal of Speech, Language, and Hearing Research, 53(6), 1529-1542. doi:10.1044/1092-4388(2010/09-0005)
Kaplan, P. S., Dungan, J. K., & Zinser, M. C. (2004). Infants of chronically depressed mothers learn in response to male, but not female, infant-directed speech. Developmental Psychology, 40(2), 140-148. doi:10.1037/0012-1649.40.2.140
Kaplan, P. S., Jung, P. C., Ryther, J. S., & Zarlengo-Strouse, P. (1996). Infant-directed versus adult-directed speech as signals for faces. Developmental Psychology, 32(5), 880-891. doi:10.1037/0012-1649.32.5.880
Liu, H., Tsao, F., & Kuhl, P. K. (2007). Acoustic analysis of lexical tone in mandarin infant-directed speech. Developmental Psychology, 43(4), 912-917. doi:10.1037/0012-1649.43.4.912
McLeod, P. J. (1993). What studies of communication with infants ask us about psychology: Baby-talk and other speech registers. Canadian Psychology/Psychologie Canadienne, 34(3), 282-292. doi:10.1037/h0078828
Schachner, A., & Hannon, E. E. (2011). Infant-directed speech drives social preferences in 5-month-old infants. Developmental Psychology, 47(1), 19-25. doi:10.1037/a0020740
Singh, L., Morgan, J. L., & Best, C. T. (2002). Infants' listening preferences: Baby talk or happy talk? Infancy, 3(3), 365-394. doi:10.1207/S15327078IN0303_5
Singh, L., Nestor, S., Parikh, C., & Yull, A. (2009). Influences of infant-directed speech on early word recognition. Infancy, 14(6), 654-666. doi:10.1080/15250000903263973 Kfinsand ( talk) 04:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC) Thiessen, E. D., Hill, E. A., & Saffran, J. R. (2005). Infant-directed speech facilitates word segmentation. Infancy, 7(1), 53-71. doi:10.1207/s15327078in0701_5
Kfinsand ( talk) 04:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
There was previous talk on this page about removing some of the vocabulary, as stated above, we are editing this page for our psychology class and have come to the consensus that the extensive vocabulary section is unnecessary and lacking references. We propose to remove this extensive list and replace it with a handful of referenced examples. Ahartlin ( talk) 14:15, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
This was nominated with outstanding clean-up tags. Wikipedia articles needing clarification (October 2011), Articles with specifically marked weasel-worded phrases (March 2009, May 2010). These should be dealt with quickly or the article coul be quickfailed. AIRcorn (talk) 10:30, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Sasata ( talk · contribs) 18:47, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I'll review this article. Before we begin, please clean up the outstanding tags, and ensure that each paragraph has a citation, as I need to check to confirm the sources are being properly represented and adequately paraphrased. A number of paragraphs in the "Vocabulary and Structure" section have numerical citation tags (suggesting that the information was copy-pasted from somewhere), so these will need to be converted to regular inline citations as well. Sasata ( talk) 18:47, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
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Can we expand on why grown women will sometimes speak like this? like, the psychology behind it?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bumblebritches57 ( talk • contribs) 02:40, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
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I am confused about the last sentence in the Aid to cognitive development section, which states that "Some feel that parents should refer to the child and others by their names only (no pronouns, e.g., he, I, or you), to avoid confusing infants who have yet to form an identity independent from their parents." Attempts to find any information related to this turned up mostly empty. The most relevant result I found was an editorial essay in a blog (here: [2]) which takes a clear idealogical stance in relation to issues of gender and social justice.
In this instance I am unsure whether or not this statement should be removed, or just clarified in some way?
CeraWithaC ( talk) 01:24, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
The section "Use with infants" concludes with the following unsourced statement:
"families with a lower-status might just have less time to spend focusing on interactions."
This is {dubious} at best, and I've so marked it for discussion here. Although plausible, no evidence is given to support it.
To the contrary, I'm aware of some research of the last couple of decades that shows that some high-status parents, in particular doctors, have high levels of work-related stress that leads to them being more likely than average:
all of which means that such families "might just have less time to spend focusing on interactions" (with their infant – and other – children), to borrow a phrase. This goes double for parents who are both in high-status occupations.
Your thoughts are welcome! yoyo ( talk) 10:41, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
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I think that a section on baby talk directed toward disabled and mentally-ill adults might be good to add. I don't have any research to post right now, but there are tons of stories of people who are physically and/or mentally disabled and people with mental illnesses receiving this kind of speech -- from doctors, teachers, strangers, family members, peers, you name it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.17.163.143 ( talk) 05:08, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
I'd already begun writing this before realizing the note near the head, "2014" (by former editor Contko), aligns with my thoughts. Credit where credit's due.
As a supposed article about a supposed scientific discipline that is supposedly well-documented, I find this article a disservice to linguistics in particular and WP in general. The entire page comes across as at best defensive, more generally hyperbolic: not only is there nothing bad about adults imposing pseudoinfantile speech upon helpless children, but it is repeatedly touted as though some sort of invaluable teaching aid, to a point near the border of "WP is not a textbook, WP is not a manual."
Here's a simple check: at roughly what age does this downtalking become a hindrance to the maturing of the parent/child relationship? I find nothing; indicatively, the word years appears nowhere in the article.
This article has apparently been revised multiple times by various student gaggles. Should further blow in here, a hint: learn how to attach proper citations to your claims. I'd have failed many freshman outright for that alone.
There are no cited counterpoint views, much less criticisms — something I would expect of ANY valid discipline. This alone seems to place the behavior more squarely in the realm of religious faith (or at least philosophy) than anywhere near grounded academic study. In doing brief research on the subject, I note that articles even hinting at babytalk being merely a neutral factor will excite wild and even vitriloic attack from commenters.
Based in part on that hysteria, I could perhaps make the case that babytalk is a valid slang or argot or maybe cant or perhaps even jargon of a self-perpetuating infantilizing subculture. However, amidst all the "science" I don't see a credible overarching argument presented to the effect that it is somehow "natural," as in "common to human beings across cultures."
I have anecdotal tales from elementary teachers of how students with questionable speech skills — e.g. speaking through pursed lips, clinging to "cute" words, consonant substitutions ("widdow" for "little"), mispronunciations ("topato" for "potato"), sing-song pitch extremes — had a mother who persisted in using that speech with them despite the kid being in second or third or even fourth grade. Imagine simple spelling tasks: how do you teach a child to "sound out" a word like potato when they've heard so constantly that it's pronounced "topato"?
Though the article takes pains to separate these tics from strict speech disorders, the fact (as teachers can attest) is that these must similarly be overcome if the child is to be taught properly. For instance, whether a particular example is clinical apraxia of speech or just an environmentally imposed affectation is immaterial in regards to end-effect -- either way, the kid is difficult to understand. That makes the kid special needs, needing more attention to ensure that the lessons are properly communicated and fully comprehended.
And overreach abounds, often with sentence constructions that suggest the author is putting up a nonsupporting source, betting nobody will notice, i.e.:
The cited source does indeed find that infants (and apparently adults as well!!) focus better when presented with exaggerated prosody, but nowhere is the preceding clause validated. (This is a propoganda trick for which I cannot stand.) I believe it's been proven that opposite extremes from babytalk — speaking rapidly or monotonously or clipped or with an accent — are also attention-grabbing. Or consider the vapidity of
How precisely is it known that the kid WANTS that? Actually, a 2015 study (RIKEN: Andrew Martin et al.) bluntly says it's amazing the victom learns language at all —
On a reread, I note that "infant-directed speech" becomes equated to speaking directly to an infant. Therefore, as presented, it's not the raft of accreted infantilist nonsense, but the fact that the adult is willing to interact with the child in a focused manner that is important. In short, it's the interaction. Here's a few lines, edited:
Here's the original, overreach and arm-waving intact:
Still no supporting citation, but much more credible on the face of it.
Though I have been told (more than once) to
be bold with my editing, I will exercise restraint as I prune back the unfounded claims made in this article, hoping to eventually find some strong healthy limbs on which a thorough, balanced, objective article can grow.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
03:10, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
Two nonsense words from roots music: honkey-tonk and hoochie-coochie. Perhaps there are others. (added later: heebie-jeebies, hocus-pocus)
If these are "baby talk," then what meaning could have possibly been intended for an infant to understand??
And if it can somehow be proven they are not "baby talk," then I say this topic is a mere subset of something larger, which
AND
Must go: repeated reliance on trash: "Research shows…" or "Research has proven…" without even an attempt to identify that "research." For hiding behind quackery, it's worse than the nimrods who think that calling something "notable" MAKES it notable.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
16:02, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
Okay, some basic editing problems here. First, not only are "CDS" and "IDS" used interchangeably throughout the article, context seems to hint thyat they're somehow different. As the claim is boldly/baldly made that the pros prefer CDS, I propose changing all mentions of IDS to CDS. Be warned.
At the very head is the note
yet mention within is made of babies attempting to return the CDS presented to them. Now, is this CDS or is it "babbling"?
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
16:15, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
O god... the jargon... the jargon...: CDS may also contribute to the modulation of infant attention, assist infants in determining relevant syntactic qualities including phonetic boundaries…
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
16:26, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
I just completed a major rework of Characteristics. It appeared that people had simply crammed in a bunch of factoids, with no attempt to group them or eliminate repetition. These (for lack of a better term) contributors also appear unfamiliar with relevant academic work, for example body language and prosody. I have NOT sought credible sources for the claims made — if it were up to me, I'd simply eliminate ALL unfounded claims outright.
That, at least, gives me a paradigm for looking at the rest of the article.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
17:48, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
The section Purpose and implications (near the beginning) appears to be highly redundant with Characteristics (at the end). Therefore, I am relocating the latter to immediately after the former; it doesn't need to remain there longterm, but this will make for easing some editing tasks.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
18:02, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
Upon reflection, I feel as though Characteristics ought to be "how to recognize babytalk," Purpose should be "what babytalk is doing there," and Implications as "what babytalk will mean to the history of the human race." Or something like that.
Instead, each section is a hodgepodge -- ooh, another babytalk word!! -- of assertions (sometimes mutually contradictory), description, and rationalization. While P & I presently makes better use of credible sources, Characteristics is now the better organized of the two, so I'm moving it to the head of the article. I'll be trying to poke these unruly data-dumps into eventual order.
The subsequent target will likely be the overreaching claims to Universality.
Incidentally, I'm eliminating the Colwyn Trevarthen shout-out (after two years!) as irrelevant.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
23:39, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
I've chopped much of the "Baby talk with pets" section. It reads like something that fell out of Dog Fancy magazine. The article is
Baby talk; as I addressed previously, if there's something that contains babytalk AND (ugh!) "Doggerel," then THAT is where ALL this stuff really belongs.Until then, if pet-talk is someone's hobby, then please launch a new article.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
00:05, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
> Infants are unable ....(1) When fathers ... are able ..., infants respond well... (2) This too can inhibit language and speech development. (3)
"This" in (3) seems to refer to the fact in (1). Maybe (2) was added later without fixing (3)? _Vi ( talk) 07:59, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
At the moment, "usually" appears eight times. Only once is a citation within spitting distance (and that offers questionable support).
People hate when I tag stuff like that, but usually can't be bothered to support the claims, so I might simply remove every instance as egregious OR/peacocking.
FWIW, usually gets 233,689 hits on Wikipedia. Like notable (360,925), any appearance ought to cause any credible editor to immediately ask "really?" and expect a well-documented reply.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
15:49, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
Seeing as it's been more than a year, and this is hardly a neglected article (multiple editors adding claims and apparent citations), and citation needed tags remain abundant, I'm simply going to start pruning.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
22:12, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Experiment: I have begun by hiding a few hundred words, almost entirely stuff that's been carrying a citation needed tag since 2014 or earlier, on the assumption that since nobody's given a crap about it in five years, nobody'll miss it.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
22:37, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Baby talk was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
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This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Gustavus Adolphus College supported by WikiProject Psychology and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2012 Q1 term. Further details are available on the course page.
Above message substituted from {{WAP assignment}}
on 14:55, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
For the section "Foreigner talk" I'm not so sure if that is similar to Baby Talk, more so than Cave-man like talk. Usually people do not use high pitches nor do they use repeat single syllable words to refer to things like "boo-boo" when speaking to a foreigner (Usually because those may be culture specific vocabulary that other cultures may not understand). Some other things I noticed also were for the examples of Baby Talk. It might be a good idea to have examples from other languages as well, including phonetic reading, just to get a better idea of baby talk. For the sections "Phonology" and "Syntax", maybe some diagrams or trees would be helpful. Jcjjfu52 ( talk) 04:47, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
This article should be titled more appropriately towards the linguistic terminology, such as Child Directed Speech or Infant Directed Speech. The general description of the term “Baby Talk” is vague and unstructured concerning facts and content. The “Purpose and Implications” section could use some organization within subcategories to break up the paragraphs to make it easier to navigate the different ideas. Give less examples of “Baby Talk” in the “Vocabulary and Structure” section, maybe limit it to 10-15 examples.
Contko ( talk) 00:05, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I think it's interesting how words such as "mother", "father", "dad" etc probably are derived from Baby Talk... But that is likely(?) from babies, themselves, rather than their mothers. Maybe we could add something about that...
I removed the reference quoting the researcher regarding baby talk being similar to poetry. It's not a mainstream idea at this time, and I don't think it's appropriate for an article on such a general topic to quote one single researcher on recent findings, especially subjective or controversial findings. That should be left to magazine or newspaper articles. Jeeves 18:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Um... Why "especially mothers"? Alveolate 06:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I was extremely disappointed to see that this article has (essentially) no information about the many societies that don't use CDL. I suppose I'll have to dredge through my bookshelf to get more, but here's a snippet from Language Development by Erika Hoff (Wadsworth, 2005, p. 117):
The studies cited are:
I guess I'll try and chase those down when I get a chance. This data should really be in here. It's appalling that it's not. 69.140.12.199 18:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I recently removed a "Sex and the City" reference that involved the mention of "Titty Witties," feeling this was inappropriate and could be found offensive by someone who stumbles upon it unknowingly. Just wanted to get peoples' opinions on this matter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.249.66.23 ( talk) 00:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC).
Maybe someone who's informed could provide some theories as to *why* people use CDS with babies and children?
Retitling it "examples in literature" and using those for which a reference is clear (it not explicit). I don't see any indication here or in edit comments of why it was removed. It is useful in documenting the way baby talk is used in dialogue, and as indicating its cultural universality at least in the English-speaking world. It also shows how perfectly recognizable a 1917 example is to modern ears. Dpbsmith (talk) 19:31, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
The most recent editions appear to be more pronunciations than actual words... should they not be removed unless they can be found in actual dictionaries. Hesitant to do it myself though. 198.54.202.242 ( talk) 11:29, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move to baby talk as the common name for the topic.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 12:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Child-directed speech → Baby language — item of psycholinguistics with ancient denomination Caceo ( talk) 13:40, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
SITUATION CHANGED
I put off the move question to a later time, to see the evolution of the new articles. -- Caceo ( talk) 00:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I believe this talk page should be moved, as well (though for that matter, I really believe the above was a "no consensus", too, so...). -- LjL ( talk) 13:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
We are working on updating this page for our college Psychology class, Psychology of Language. As changes are made we will post them to this page for editing and feedback. We look forward to expanding the depth of this topic on Wikipedia. Ahartlin ( talk) 13:49, 15 March 2012 (UTC) Kfinsand ( talk) 13:53, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm so sorry iof I deleted anyones comments, I thought you were supposed to delete it so you could add in your comment, I was completely unaware, I guess u can say i'm a newbe to wikipedia an im only doin it for a project. so sorry :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by Princesspaperieca ( talk • contribs) 22:58, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article on “Baby Talk” or “Infant Directed Speech” describes this practice as the use of high pitched speech with short words to communicate most often with children. In addition, the article outlines alternative names for this method of speech. Possible purposes of “baby talk” include that babies are more likely to respond to this method and prefer to listen to this type of speech. “Baby talk” also aids infants in their ability to learn words as they are usually in simplified forms as well as providing a base for infants to understand the fundamental attributes of language structure. Further, “baby talk” has been linked to the development of the ability of children to ask questions. This article includes a section regarding universality of “baby talk”. However, this particular section needs to be expanded and will be a major site of revision through this project. We hope to include a section on differences by region regarding this topic as well. The article highlights that “baby talk” is not solely used with infants and can be used in communication with foreign language, in a condescending manner, or with pets. This Wikipedia article also includes a list of vocabulary often used in “baby talk” which may need to be condensed. This does not allow the reader to understand the implications or structure of baby talk, rather simply provides a list of examples. We hope to expand this article to include additional specifics about the characteristics of “baby talk”, adding phonology and syntax sections to the vocabulary section, and, finally, add a section outlining the implications of “baby talk” in order to provide a more comprehensive view of effects. This may include, but is not limited to, how “baby talk” impacts word recognition, social preferences, and aids cognitive development.
Below is a list of sources that will be applicable to these updates:
Green, J. R., Nip, I. S. B., Wilson, E. M., Mefferd, A. S., & Yunusova, Y. (2010). Lip movement exaggerations during infant-directed speech. Journal of Speech, Language, and Hearing Research, 53(6), 1529-1542. doi:10.1044/1092-4388(2010/09-0005)
Kaplan, P. S., Dungan, J. K., & Zinser, M. C. (2004). Infants of chronically depressed mothers learn in response to male, but not female, infant-directed speech. Developmental Psychology, 40(2), 140-148. doi:10.1037/0012-1649.40.2.140
Kaplan, P. S., Jung, P. C., Ryther, J. S., & Zarlengo-Strouse, P. (1996). Infant-directed versus adult-directed speech as signals for faces. Developmental Psychology, 32(5), 880-891. doi:10.1037/0012-1649.32.5.880
Liu, H., Tsao, F., & Kuhl, P. K. (2007). Acoustic analysis of lexical tone in mandarin infant-directed speech. Developmental Psychology, 43(4), 912-917. doi:10.1037/0012-1649.43.4.912
McLeod, P. J. (1993). What studies of communication with infants ask us about psychology: Baby-talk and other speech registers. Canadian Psychology/Psychologie Canadienne, 34(3), 282-292. doi:10.1037/h0078828
Schachner, A., & Hannon, E. E. (2011). Infant-directed speech drives social preferences in 5-month-old infants. Developmental Psychology, 47(1), 19-25. doi:10.1037/a0020740
Singh, L., Morgan, J. L., & Best, C. T. (2002). Infants' listening preferences: Baby talk or happy talk? Infancy, 3(3), 365-394. doi:10.1207/S15327078IN0303_5
Singh, L., Nestor, S., Parikh, C., & Yull, A. (2009). Influences of infant-directed speech on early word recognition. Infancy, 14(6), 654-666. doi:10.1080/15250000903263973 Kfinsand ( talk) 04:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC) Thiessen, E. D., Hill, E. A., & Saffran, J. R. (2005). Infant-directed speech facilitates word segmentation. Infancy, 7(1), 53-71. doi:10.1207/s15327078in0701_5
Kfinsand ( talk) 04:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
There was previous talk on this page about removing some of the vocabulary, as stated above, we are editing this page for our psychology class and have come to the consensus that the extensive vocabulary section is unnecessary and lacking references. We propose to remove this extensive list and replace it with a handful of referenced examples. Ahartlin ( talk) 14:15, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
This was nominated with outstanding clean-up tags. Wikipedia articles needing clarification (October 2011), Articles with specifically marked weasel-worded phrases (March 2009, May 2010). These should be dealt with quickly or the article coul be quickfailed. AIRcorn (talk) 10:30, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Sasata ( talk · contribs) 18:47, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I'll review this article. Before we begin, please clean up the outstanding tags, and ensure that each paragraph has a citation, as I need to check to confirm the sources are being properly represented and adequately paraphrased. A number of paragraphs in the "Vocabulary and Structure" section have numerical citation tags (suggesting that the information was copy-pasted from somewhere), so these will need to be converted to regular inline citations as well. Sasata ( talk) 18:47, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
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Can we expand on why grown women will sometimes speak like this? like, the psychology behind it?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bumblebritches57 ( talk • contribs) 02:40, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
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I am confused about the last sentence in the Aid to cognitive development section, which states that "Some feel that parents should refer to the child and others by their names only (no pronouns, e.g., he, I, or you), to avoid confusing infants who have yet to form an identity independent from their parents." Attempts to find any information related to this turned up mostly empty. The most relevant result I found was an editorial essay in a blog (here: [2]) which takes a clear idealogical stance in relation to issues of gender and social justice.
In this instance I am unsure whether or not this statement should be removed, or just clarified in some way?
CeraWithaC ( talk) 01:24, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
The section "Use with infants" concludes with the following unsourced statement:
"families with a lower-status might just have less time to spend focusing on interactions."
This is {dubious} at best, and I've so marked it for discussion here. Although plausible, no evidence is given to support it.
To the contrary, I'm aware of some research of the last couple of decades that shows that some high-status parents, in particular doctors, have high levels of work-related stress that leads to them being more likely than average:
all of which means that such families "might just have less time to spend focusing on interactions" (with their infant – and other – children), to borrow a phrase. This goes double for parents who are both in high-status occupations.
Your thoughts are welcome! yoyo ( talk) 10:41, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
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I think that a section on baby talk directed toward disabled and mentally-ill adults might be good to add. I don't have any research to post right now, but there are tons of stories of people who are physically and/or mentally disabled and people with mental illnesses receiving this kind of speech -- from doctors, teachers, strangers, family members, peers, you name it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.17.163.143 ( talk) 05:08, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
I'd already begun writing this before realizing the note near the head, "2014" (by former editor Contko), aligns with my thoughts. Credit where credit's due.
As a supposed article about a supposed scientific discipline that is supposedly well-documented, I find this article a disservice to linguistics in particular and WP in general. The entire page comes across as at best defensive, more generally hyperbolic: not only is there nothing bad about adults imposing pseudoinfantile speech upon helpless children, but it is repeatedly touted as though some sort of invaluable teaching aid, to a point near the border of "WP is not a textbook, WP is not a manual."
Here's a simple check: at roughly what age does this downtalking become a hindrance to the maturing of the parent/child relationship? I find nothing; indicatively, the word years appears nowhere in the article.
This article has apparently been revised multiple times by various student gaggles. Should further blow in here, a hint: learn how to attach proper citations to your claims. I'd have failed many freshman outright for that alone.
There are no cited counterpoint views, much less criticisms — something I would expect of ANY valid discipline. This alone seems to place the behavior more squarely in the realm of religious faith (or at least philosophy) than anywhere near grounded academic study. In doing brief research on the subject, I note that articles even hinting at babytalk being merely a neutral factor will excite wild and even vitriloic attack from commenters.
Based in part on that hysteria, I could perhaps make the case that babytalk is a valid slang or argot or maybe cant or perhaps even jargon of a self-perpetuating infantilizing subculture. However, amidst all the "science" I don't see a credible overarching argument presented to the effect that it is somehow "natural," as in "common to human beings across cultures."
I have anecdotal tales from elementary teachers of how students with questionable speech skills — e.g. speaking through pursed lips, clinging to "cute" words, consonant substitutions ("widdow" for "little"), mispronunciations ("topato" for "potato"), sing-song pitch extremes — had a mother who persisted in using that speech with them despite the kid being in second or third or even fourth grade. Imagine simple spelling tasks: how do you teach a child to "sound out" a word like potato when they've heard so constantly that it's pronounced "topato"?
Though the article takes pains to separate these tics from strict speech disorders, the fact (as teachers can attest) is that these must similarly be overcome if the child is to be taught properly. For instance, whether a particular example is clinical apraxia of speech or just an environmentally imposed affectation is immaterial in regards to end-effect -- either way, the kid is difficult to understand. That makes the kid special needs, needing more attention to ensure that the lessons are properly communicated and fully comprehended.
And overreach abounds, often with sentence constructions that suggest the author is putting up a nonsupporting source, betting nobody will notice, i.e.:
The cited source does indeed find that infants (and apparently adults as well!!) focus better when presented with exaggerated prosody, but nowhere is the preceding clause validated. (This is a propoganda trick for which I cannot stand.) I believe it's been proven that opposite extremes from babytalk — speaking rapidly or monotonously or clipped or with an accent — are also attention-grabbing. Or consider the vapidity of
How precisely is it known that the kid WANTS that? Actually, a 2015 study (RIKEN: Andrew Martin et al.) bluntly says it's amazing the victom learns language at all —
On a reread, I note that "infant-directed speech" becomes equated to speaking directly to an infant. Therefore, as presented, it's not the raft of accreted infantilist nonsense, but the fact that the adult is willing to interact with the child in a focused manner that is important. In short, it's the interaction. Here's a few lines, edited:
Here's the original, overreach and arm-waving intact:
Still no supporting citation, but much more credible on the face of it.
Though I have been told (more than once) to
be bold with my editing, I will exercise restraint as I prune back the unfounded claims made in this article, hoping to eventually find some strong healthy limbs on which a thorough, balanced, objective article can grow.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
03:10, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
Two nonsense words from roots music: honkey-tonk and hoochie-coochie. Perhaps there are others. (added later: heebie-jeebies, hocus-pocus)
If these are "baby talk," then what meaning could have possibly been intended for an infant to understand??
And if it can somehow be proven they are not "baby talk," then I say this topic is a mere subset of something larger, which
AND
Must go: repeated reliance on trash: "Research shows…" or "Research has proven…" without even an attempt to identify that "research." For hiding behind quackery, it's worse than the nimrods who think that calling something "notable" MAKES it notable.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
16:02, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
Okay, some basic editing problems here. First, not only are "CDS" and "IDS" used interchangeably throughout the article, context seems to hint thyat they're somehow different. As the claim is boldly/baldly made that the pros prefer CDS, I propose changing all mentions of IDS to CDS. Be warned.
At the very head is the note
yet mention within is made of babies attempting to return the CDS presented to them. Now, is this CDS or is it "babbling"?
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
16:15, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
O god... the jargon... the jargon...: CDS may also contribute to the modulation of infant attention, assist infants in determining relevant syntactic qualities including phonetic boundaries…
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
16:26, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
I just completed a major rework of Characteristics. It appeared that people had simply crammed in a bunch of factoids, with no attempt to group them or eliminate repetition. These (for lack of a better term) contributors also appear unfamiliar with relevant academic work, for example body language and prosody. I have NOT sought credible sources for the claims made — if it were up to me, I'd simply eliminate ALL unfounded claims outright.
That, at least, gives me a paradigm for looking at the rest of the article.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
17:48, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
The section Purpose and implications (near the beginning) appears to be highly redundant with Characteristics (at the end). Therefore, I am relocating the latter to immediately after the former; it doesn't need to remain there longterm, but this will make for easing some editing tasks.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
18:02, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
Upon reflection, I feel as though Characteristics ought to be "how to recognize babytalk," Purpose should be "what babytalk is doing there," and Implications as "what babytalk will mean to the history of the human race." Or something like that.
Instead, each section is a hodgepodge -- ooh, another babytalk word!! -- of assertions (sometimes mutually contradictory), description, and rationalization. While P & I presently makes better use of credible sources, Characteristics is now the better organized of the two, so I'm moving it to the head of the article. I'll be trying to poke these unruly data-dumps into eventual order.
The subsequent target will likely be the overreaching claims to Universality.
Incidentally, I'm eliminating the Colwyn Trevarthen shout-out (after two years!) as irrelevant.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
23:39, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
I've chopped much of the "Baby talk with pets" section. It reads like something that fell out of Dog Fancy magazine. The article is
Baby talk; as I addressed previously, if there's something that contains babytalk AND (ugh!) "Doggerel," then THAT is where ALL this stuff really belongs.Until then, if pet-talk is someone's hobby, then please launch a new article.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
00:05, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
> Infants are unable ....(1) When fathers ... are able ..., infants respond well... (2) This too can inhibit language and speech development. (3)
"This" in (3) seems to refer to the fact in (1). Maybe (2) was added later without fixing (3)? _Vi ( talk) 07:59, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
At the moment, "usually" appears eight times. Only once is a citation within spitting distance (and that offers questionable support).
People hate when I tag stuff like that, but usually can't be bothered to support the claims, so I might simply remove every instance as egregious OR/peacocking.
FWIW, usually gets 233,689 hits on Wikipedia. Like notable (360,925), any appearance ought to cause any credible editor to immediately ask "really?" and expect a well-documented reply.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
15:49, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
Seeing as it's been more than a year, and this is hardly a neglected article (multiple editors adding claims and apparent citations), and citation needed tags remain abundant, I'm simply going to start pruning.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
22:12, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Experiment: I have begun by hiding a few hundred words, almost entirely stuff that's been carrying a citation needed tag since 2014 or earlier, on the assumption that since nobody's given a crap about it in five years, nobody'll miss it.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
22:37, 31 January 2019 (UTC)