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Among the many documents released during the Edward Snowden revelations of 2013 it was revealed that BT and other telecommunication companies had been cooperating with GCHQ by deploying clandestine monitoring outposts in Oman and Yemen, among other things. Shouldn't these be included under the controversies heading? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark63424 ( talk • contribs) 11:12, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
BT Group is rebranding according to their website. The logo for BT Group appears to have changed, but the BT brand logo remains the same. https://www.bt.com/about/bt/our-brands — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:6388:2B01:9598:CEC8:6686:2267 ( talk) 09:02, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
well i have also been looking for which shareholder has majority control and come up on a blank, how ever i can tell you that BT is a PLC. Can anybody see any share ownership data on the website? I can't see anything.-- Jerry seinfeld 22:11, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
"It has been suggested that BT's Northern Ireland operations may be merged into BT Ireland at some point in the future." - I can't find any source for this, and would find it highly unlikely given the different market and regulatory factors at play - never mind the political sensitivities it would impact upon Col mc 01:12, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I've added a point about customer services. At present the comment is pretty general, as I don't want to use the article to promote individual customer complaints, but if references are required I'll set up a few specific references to illustrate points raised.
Do you think it would be worth mentioning the problematic waiting times that some people have had whlie trying to use BT's helpline. If you're not sure about what I mean, check out this link. The story stems from The Times.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20070818/tuk-britain-offbeat-telecom-company-bt-a7ad41d_1.html
The inclusion of this article seem a bit like a slagging-off ground for BT, rather than an informative and impartial encyclopedia article, in my opinion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.155.212.216 ( talk) 10:22:45, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
BT are the only operator that are required by their licence to provide connections when requested -- other operators are free to 'cherry pick' their customers. In fact other operators often require the customer to already have a working BT line (the customer pays only line rental to BT). This gives BT a rather monopoly-like position, and with little practical competition it seems that customer service is not a priority for BT: Weeks or even months to connect a line or fix a fault are not uncommon. Indeed, it is easy to find blog entries etc. of angry BT customers and the frequency with which BT enrage their customers is indicative of genuine incompetence.
unregistered user: although i do agree that BT has problems with customer service i dont this edit really has a place on this article. i cant see what it brings to the article, if anyone wants to clarify this then fine. but i see no objective comparisons to other providers such as 'talk talk' or AOL who in most peoples opinions have worse reputations. just a smaller customer base. would someone like to clarify this please? or give relevant references as this section seems to me entirely opinion based, do sweeping statements like 'bt are renowned for.....' have a place on an encyclopedia?. thanks. i'll give until 23/11/07 for a reply or i will remove the section in the hope that if it is resurrected that it is more objective and verifiable
It is fair to note that BT has a large reputation for having utterly useless and often controversial customer support workers. I myself have experienced their customer support too many times, and it goes beyond being rubbish support.
About Customer Service: A friend of mine who is pretty high up in BT billing here in the UK says that the Indian Call centers over the next few years WILL be closing down. The operations will consequently be moving back to the UK. I will try to get more details about it soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.29.19 ( talk) 21:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Like most people I've suffered at the hands of BT's wretched customer service, and quite astonishing incompetence, *but* that is original research, and thus does not meet the standards of Wikipedia, thus citations from neutral authoraties need to be cited. The regulators for instance have been quite critical and the press has any number of pieces.
NPOV is a different, trickier issue. Some things are objectively bad, such as BT technicians not turning up for appointments, but neutrality requires that one researches whether they are worse than competitors, and certainly try and find the frequency of this. BT has tens of millions of customers, so to describe their support as somewhere between incompetent and actually malicious it is necessary to show that the list of horror stories is bigger than is reasonable given that they must handle millions of customer interactions per day. DominicConnor ( talk) 21:49, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Why was the latest edit reverted? What was wrong with it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.173.144 ( talk • contribs) 21:29, November 28, 2006 (UTC)
Due to the recent revert war I have requested that the page is semi-protected. I have also reminded the main participants of the 3RR. --GW_Simulations User Page | Talk 21:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Someone has posted an advert at the bottom. Not sure on the rules for this, but I'm guessing it's against them. Anyone who knows for sure want to comment/remove it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deeem119 ( talk • contribs) 09:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
Image:BTLogo91.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Does anyone know when Buzby was used as the BT logo? I seem to recall it being used somewhere in the early 80s. Was it before the T, at the same time as the T, or was it used for another part of the BT organisation? 81.107.205.91 13:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Darkieboy236 15:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I think that the external links section, especially the links to BT, is way too big. I do not think that every BT company and service needs to be linked to. I suggest simply linking to the BT home page (bt.com) and the BT Group home page (btplc.com). If people want to go to the other websites, they can search for them on Google or go to the BT or BT group websites. I do not think that the BT Suck link is appropriate either. The site is currently offline and may not be coming back, as it has been offline for months. However, I checked it out using the Internet Archive. It is just a message board for people to complain about BT and sometimes ask for help. Self-help links are not appropriate for an encyclopedia. -- Kjkolb 20:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
We have the initial share price for mmO2, but not for original BT shares. Anybody recall what they were, around 230p /share I think? A Taxed Mind ( talk) 12:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
130p. Blaise ( talk) 17:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
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BT is not the largest communications operator in Europe. For one, [ [1]] France Telecom is larger by revenue, operating income, net income, and by number of employees. Deutsche Telekom is also considerably larger. There is no citation for the claim in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.207.133.54 ( talk) 00:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
BetacommandBot ( talk) 17:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't involvement in Phorm trials be included into this article?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.46.165 ( talk) 19:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
The article states BT has 104,399 (2005-06) employees. Does anyone have the breakdown of which are contracted staff and which are agency staff? Does anyone have any breakdown on which department within BT these people work for? Darkieboy236 ( talk) 10:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I was making the point that it's more than a possibility - I don't have the figures in front of me, but as an ex-BT employee, I'm pretty sure the 104,000 figure is people employed by BT. I have a BT Group slide showing that in 07/08 there were 112,000 people employed by BT, with a further 26,000 "globally sourced" (BT code for contract employees). -- Phil Holmes ( talk) 08:06, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I replaced Dormskirk's deletion of ref in intro - most featured articles I have read contain refs in the intro, wp:style and Introductory_material do not mention this, and the claim of "operating in 170 countries" was previously challenged. Pontificalibus ( talk) 10:23, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
I've seen several youtube videos about the angry caller that got mad at BT for calling him around 2006. Maybe there can be a reference to that somewhere in this article. The youtube videos can be a good source for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.138.214 ( talk) 09:45, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
I see that the word 'leading' is used quite often, which is not a very neutral word, and anyway repeated words aren't good style. I would suggest 'major', 'large' etc which are more neutral and certainly true. Leading implies good, which in some cases is disputed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DominicConnor ( talk • contribs) 21:53, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the below, as it's uncited, and uses leading phrases such as "dismal" and "forced"
The history of BT here is whitewashed. The text is very pro-BT. There is no criticism section. All we know is that privatization in 1984 was just great! and has been ever since! I'm sure there are plenty of opposing views there. - 22:33, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Jeff Song deleted the information I added about this alliance, with the argument that it is all based on a letter to the press. It is not. It is also based on an article in the Jewish Chronicle, and they must have found the information sufficiently interesting to publish it. I feel that when a company is accused of unethical behaviour, it should be mentioned on the relevant page, albeit in a neutral way. It's for readers to make up their mind. Nescio vos ( talk) 22:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
When I joined BT as an apprentice engineer in 1966, it was called General Post Office (Telecommunications). This should be included as it showed that Telecoms at the time was seen as a division of the Post Office. A lot different to today. Molbrum2 ( talk) 09:10, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Possibly re-hashing Section 3. Customer Service here, but I've created a new section since this is a number of years later. Anyway, surely that section is related to the Customer service of BT Retail, and not the wider BT Group that this article relates to? BT Group do not deal with end users, but with CPs and partners. L.J.Skinner wot| I did 03:49, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
I have added an advert template to the top of the article for the following reasons:
A few of these statements need to be changed or removed as potential WP:PUFFERY.
Thoughts? I think the issue has to be raised. Thanks. KingHiggins ( talk) 16:49, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Great, thanks, much appreciated. KingHiggins ( talk) 17:45, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
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"In 1912, the General Post Office, a government department, became the monopoly telecoms supplier in the United Kingdom." This is just not true. A few local authorities, most notably Kingston-upon-Hull retained control of their telephone systems after 1912, and had local monopolies. They were eventually merged with the Post Office with the exception of Hull. Perhaps someone with better knowlege of the history of the telecomms industry in the UK could edit this article to reflect this. http://www.britishtelephones.com/histuk.htm claims that Hull, Portsmouth and Guernsey were licenced to provide telephone services, with Portsmouth being absorbed by the Post office in 1913. Also see http://home.bt.com/news/bt-life/history-of-bt/a-short-history-of-telecommunications-in-the-uk-11363870786446 86.139.43.209 ( talk) 02:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
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The caption states the obvious; a very similar example is used on WP:ASTONISHME. The readers do not need to be told that that is BT's logo since it is completely obvious. IWI ( chat) 23:57, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
|
Comment: No shit, Sherlock. (Turns out this is the logo for all CNN brands, not just CNN International – an example of the impulse to add the obvious leading, instead, to addition of the inaccurate.) |
IWI ( chat) 00:00, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
"A good caption clearly identifies the subject of the picture, without detailing the obvious; is succinct; establishes the picture's relevance to the article; provides context for the picture; draws the reader into the article."
I wouldn't personally consider including the year of introduction of the logo as providing context or providing relevance to the article at all and I'm sure any sane person would agree that "The current logo for BT" is stating the obvious. This is in the manual of style, so why are you in disagreement; not every picture needs a caption. IWI ( chat) 20:31, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
The thing is that’s not what he said. IWI ( chat) 22:08, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
E Eng 22:23, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Current logo; introduced 2003
It’s going to upset the page’s “owner” but this does seem like consensus. IWI ( chat) 22:39, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Logo introduced 2003
@ SshibumXZ, EEng, and Frayae:Fine with me also; no caption would be better. Also let’s stop making personal comments, I have made my opinion clear on you Steven (Editor), we should stick to the discussion. IWI ( chat) 07:57, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
BT Group logo since 2003would be my preference. That said, the bikeshed essay is entirely appropriate and I think I will just let this rest however it ends up. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 08:53, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Thank you; consensus reached so discussion closed. IWI ( chat) 18:27, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
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Text and/or other creative content from Wikinews:BT's Lalani smashes through the £1m salary barrier was copied or moved into BT Group with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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Among the many documents released during the Edward Snowden revelations of 2013 it was revealed that BT and other telecommunication companies had been cooperating with GCHQ by deploying clandestine monitoring outposts in Oman and Yemen, among other things. Shouldn't these be included under the controversies heading? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark63424 ( talk • contribs) 11:12, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
BT Group is rebranding according to their website. The logo for BT Group appears to have changed, but the BT brand logo remains the same. https://www.bt.com/about/bt/our-brands — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:6388:2B01:9598:CEC8:6686:2267 ( talk) 09:02, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
well i have also been looking for which shareholder has majority control and come up on a blank, how ever i can tell you that BT is a PLC. Can anybody see any share ownership data on the website? I can't see anything.-- Jerry seinfeld 22:11, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
"It has been suggested that BT's Northern Ireland operations may be merged into BT Ireland at some point in the future." - I can't find any source for this, and would find it highly unlikely given the different market and regulatory factors at play - never mind the political sensitivities it would impact upon Col mc 01:12, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I've added a point about customer services. At present the comment is pretty general, as I don't want to use the article to promote individual customer complaints, but if references are required I'll set up a few specific references to illustrate points raised.
Do you think it would be worth mentioning the problematic waiting times that some people have had whlie trying to use BT's helpline. If you're not sure about what I mean, check out this link. The story stems from The Times.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20070818/tuk-britain-offbeat-telecom-company-bt-a7ad41d_1.html
The inclusion of this article seem a bit like a slagging-off ground for BT, rather than an informative and impartial encyclopedia article, in my opinion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.155.212.216 ( talk) 10:22:45, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
BT are the only operator that are required by their licence to provide connections when requested -- other operators are free to 'cherry pick' their customers. In fact other operators often require the customer to already have a working BT line (the customer pays only line rental to BT). This gives BT a rather monopoly-like position, and with little practical competition it seems that customer service is not a priority for BT: Weeks or even months to connect a line or fix a fault are not uncommon. Indeed, it is easy to find blog entries etc. of angry BT customers and the frequency with which BT enrage their customers is indicative of genuine incompetence.
unregistered user: although i do agree that BT has problems with customer service i dont this edit really has a place on this article. i cant see what it brings to the article, if anyone wants to clarify this then fine. but i see no objective comparisons to other providers such as 'talk talk' or AOL who in most peoples opinions have worse reputations. just a smaller customer base. would someone like to clarify this please? or give relevant references as this section seems to me entirely opinion based, do sweeping statements like 'bt are renowned for.....' have a place on an encyclopedia?. thanks. i'll give until 23/11/07 for a reply or i will remove the section in the hope that if it is resurrected that it is more objective and verifiable
It is fair to note that BT has a large reputation for having utterly useless and often controversial customer support workers. I myself have experienced their customer support too many times, and it goes beyond being rubbish support.
About Customer Service: A friend of mine who is pretty high up in BT billing here in the UK says that the Indian Call centers over the next few years WILL be closing down. The operations will consequently be moving back to the UK. I will try to get more details about it soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.29.19 ( talk) 21:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Like most people I've suffered at the hands of BT's wretched customer service, and quite astonishing incompetence, *but* that is original research, and thus does not meet the standards of Wikipedia, thus citations from neutral authoraties need to be cited. The regulators for instance have been quite critical and the press has any number of pieces.
NPOV is a different, trickier issue. Some things are objectively bad, such as BT technicians not turning up for appointments, but neutrality requires that one researches whether they are worse than competitors, and certainly try and find the frequency of this. BT has tens of millions of customers, so to describe their support as somewhere between incompetent and actually malicious it is necessary to show that the list of horror stories is bigger than is reasonable given that they must handle millions of customer interactions per day. DominicConnor ( talk) 21:49, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Why was the latest edit reverted? What was wrong with it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.173.144 ( talk • contribs) 21:29, November 28, 2006 (UTC)
Due to the recent revert war I have requested that the page is semi-protected. I have also reminded the main participants of the 3RR. --GW_Simulations User Page | Talk 21:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Someone has posted an advert at the bottom. Not sure on the rules for this, but I'm guessing it's against them. Anyone who knows for sure want to comment/remove it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deeem119 ( talk • contribs) 09:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
Image:BTLogo91.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 00:39, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know when Buzby was used as the BT logo? I seem to recall it being used somewhere in the early 80s. Was it before the T, at the same time as the T, or was it used for another part of the BT organisation? 81.107.205.91 13:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Darkieboy236 15:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I think that the external links section, especially the links to BT, is way too big. I do not think that every BT company and service needs to be linked to. I suggest simply linking to the BT home page (bt.com) and the BT Group home page (btplc.com). If people want to go to the other websites, they can search for them on Google or go to the BT or BT group websites. I do not think that the BT Suck link is appropriate either. The site is currently offline and may not be coming back, as it has been offline for months. However, I checked it out using the Internet Archive. It is just a message board for people to complain about BT and sometimes ask for help. Self-help links are not appropriate for an encyclopedia. -- Kjkolb 20:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
We have the initial share price for mmO2, but not for original BT shares. Anybody recall what they were, around 230p /share I think? A Taxed Mind ( talk) 12:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
130p. Blaise ( talk) 17:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
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BT is not the largest communications operator in Europe. For one, [ [1]] France Telecom is larger by revenue, operating income, net income, and by number of employees. Deutsche Telekom is also considerably larger. There is no citation for the claim in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.207.133.54 ( talk) 00:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
BetacommandBot ( talk) 17:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't involvement in Phorm trials be included into this article?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.46.165 ( talk) 19:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
The article states BT has 104,399 (2005-06) employees. Does anyone have the breakdown of which are contracted staff and which are agency staff? Does anyone have any breakdown on which department within BT these people work for? Darkieboy236 ( talk) 10:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I was making the point that it's more than a possibility - I don't have the figures in front of me, but as an ex-BT employee, I'm pretty sure the 104,000 figure is people employed by BT. I have a BT Group slide showing that in 07/08 there were 112,000 people employed by BT, with a further 26,000 "globally sourced" (BT code for contract employees). -- Phil Holmes ( talk) 08:06, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I replaced Dormskirk's deletion of ref in intro - most featured articles I have read contain refs in the intro, wp:style and Introductory_material do not mention this, and the claim of "operating in 170 countries" was previously challenged. Pontificalibus ( talk) 10:23, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
I've seen several youtube videos about the angry caller that got mad at BT for calling him around 2006. Maybe there can be a reference to that somewhere in this article. The youtube videos can be a good source for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.138.214 ( talk) 09:45, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
I see that the word 'leading' is used quite often, which is not a very neutral word, and anyway repeated words aren't good style. I would suggest 'major', 'large' etc which are more neutral and certainly true. Leading implies good, which in some cases is disputed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DominicConnor ( talk • contribs) 21:53, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the below, as it's uncited, and uses leading phrases such as "dismal" and "forced"
The history of BT here is whitewashed. The text is very pro-BT. There is no criticism section. All we know is that privatization in 1984 was just great! and has been ever since! I'm sure there are plenty of opposing views there. - 22:33, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Jeff Song deleted the information I added about this alliance, with the argument that it is all based on a letter to the press. It is not. It is also based on an article in the Jewish Chronicle, and they must have found the information sufficiently interesting to publish it. I feel that when a company is accused of unethical behaviour, it should be mentioned on the relevant page, albeit in a neutral way. It's for readers to make up their mind. Nescio vos ( talk) 22:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
When I joined BT as an apprentice engineer in 1966, it was called General Post Office (Telecommunications). This should be included as it showed that Telecoms at the time was seen as a division of the Post Office. A lot different to today. Molbrum2 ( talk) 09:10, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Possibly re-hashing Section 3. Customer Service here, but I've created a new section since this is a number of years later. Anyway, surely that section is related to the Customer service of BT Retail, and not the wider BT Group that this article relates to? BT Group do not deal with end users, but with CPs and partners. L.J.Skinner wot| I did 03:49, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
I have added an advert template to the top of the article for the following reasons:
A few of these statements need to be changed or removed as potential WP:PUFFERY.
Thoughts? I think the issue has to be raised. Thanks. KingHiggins ( talk) 16:49, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Great, thanks, much appreciated. KingHiggins ( talk) 17:45, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
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"In 1912, the General Post Office, a government department, became the monopoly telecoms supplier in the United Kingdom." This is just not true. A few local authorities, most notably Kingston-upon-Hull retained control of their telephone systems after 1912, and had local monopolies. They were eventually merged with the Post Office with the exception of Hull. Perhaps someone with better knowlege of the history of the telecomms industry in the UK could edit this article to reflect this. http://www.britishtelephones.com/histuk.htm claims that Hull, Portsmouth and Guernsey were licenced to provide telephone services, with Portsmouth being absorbed by the Post office in 1913. Also see http://home.bt.com/news/bt-life/history-of-bt/a-short-history-of-telecommunications-in-the-uk-11363870786446 86.139.43.209 ( talk) 02:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
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The caption states the obvious; a very similar example is used on WP:ASTONISHME. The readers do not need to be told that that is BT's logo since it is completely obvious. IWI ( chat) 23:57, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
|
Comment: No shit, Sherlock. (Turns out this is the logo for all CNN brands, not just CNN International – an example of the impulse to add the obvious leading, instead, to addition of the inaccurate.) |
IWI ( chat) 00:00, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
"A good caption clearly identifies the subject of the picture, without detailing the obvious; is succinct; establishes the picture's relevance to the article; provides context for the picture; draws the reader into the article."
I wouldn't personally consider including the year of introduction of the logo as providing context or providing relevance to the article at all and I'm sure any sane person would agree that "The current logo for BT" is stating the obvious. This is in the manual of style, so why are you in disagreement; not every picture needs a caption. IWI ( chat) 20:31, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
The thing is that’s not what he said. IWI ( chat) 22:08, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
E Eng 22:23, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Current logo; introduced 2003
It’s going to upset the page’s “owner” but this does seem like consensus. IWI ( chat) 22:39, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Logo introduced 2003
@ SshibumXZ, EEng, and Frayae:Fine with me also; no caption would be better. Also let’s stop making personal comments, I have made my opinion clear on you Steven (Editor), we should stick to the discussion. IWI ( chat) 07:57, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
BT Group logo since 2003would be my preference. That said, the bikeshed essay is entirely appropriate and I think I will just let this rest however it ends up. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 08:53, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Thank you; consensus reached so discussion closed. IWI ( chat) 18:27, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
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