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I do not believe that the General misunderstanding section as it is currently presented is in an unbiased and encyclopaedic tone. My edit to this effect was reverted, so I post this here for comment. The section currently presents only one perspective, and implicitly attacks without reservation the press and Angela Merkel for failing to agree with the intended interpretation. Furthermore, I do not believe that the tone of the section - with phrases such as 'Apparently', 'juicy phrases', 'things that everybody knows are ridiculous', and the like - fits with the factual tone of Wikipedia.
[...] Böhmermann announced he would try to figure out what is the line between legitimate criticism [...], and "abusive criticism"
As far as I understood, he announced to "illustrate" or "clarify" the difference between the two. He said multiple times before, during and after reciting his poem that this would not be covered by freedom of speech and that it would be illegal even in Germany. Trying to figure out the difference may have been his actual intention, but that was not what he announced in his show. Please read the full context at [2] (page is in German only). -- 91.17.252.192 ( talk) 10:26, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
-- Kmhkmh ( talk) 17:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Sources: The back of the hill (April 17, 2016). "Turkish quatrains by a German poet: Ein schmäh Gedicht von Jan Böhmermann"., The Dirty German Ditty That Got Erdogan So Angry That He Sued Dirty ditty about Turkey’s leader creates diplomatic row Does Anyone Speak Germanglish? I Need Help With A Poem About Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan
This translation avoids rearranging words. Although awkward in English, subject-object-verb order ("I water drank") is natural in German grammar and commonly used for emphassis.
German original | Word-for-word translation |
---|---|
|
Abusive Criticism |
71.41.210.146 ( talk) 14:55, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
Is there a reason that this isn't included in the body of the entry? It's already very verbose and adding this would improve the article. Bangabandhu ( talk) 23:39, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralf_Kabelka
@ Oxenflesh: made a change that I disagree with, which has the description "better English". Oxenflesh seems not to be a native English speaker, neither am I, maybe a native English speaker can chime in. My disagreements are that I think it is all right to use "Kurds" without article (like Christians, which Oxenflesh did add an article to). Also "the man who beats girls" is the actual literal translation. AFAIK, it is also permissible in English to use a "the", simply making it sound like a superlative. I don't see how English is different from German in this regard. -- Ysangkok ( talk) 22:46, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Of course, Boris Johnson also famously made up an offensive poem about Erdoğan in response to the Böhmermann injunction. JezGrove ( talk) 21:00, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
This may be an afterthought, but this January, 2022, Erdogan's *CIVIL* suit, instigated after his criminal suit against Böhmermann had been unsuccessfull, has now succeeded and Böhmermann was sentened to pay 80% of Erdogan's legal costs in the affair, and while the criminal case on whether he had insulted a foreign head of government had been dropped, he is legally barred from repeating the poem in public.
The difference is basically that the original criminal suit dealt with Erdogan's rights as a foreign head of state, while the civil suit dealt with Erdogan's rights as a private citizen. Now, in Janaury, 2022, the German Federal Constitutional Court has affirmed the former ruling of the Appellation Court of Hamburg, dating February, 2017, that Germans may poke fun at foreign heads of state, but not at private citizens, thus fining Böhmermann and barring him from ever repeating parts of the poem in public, imposing an infringement fine of up to 250,000 Euros if he does not desist. Source: [3], original FCC decision: [4] -- 2003:EF:1702:2733:A819:A366:774B:D375 ( talk) 23:40, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I do not believe that the General misunderstanding section as it is currently presented is in an unbiased and encyclopaedic tone. My edit to this effect was reverted, so I post this here for comment. The section currently presents only one perspective, and implicitly attacks without reservation the press and Angela Merkel for failing to agree with the intended interpretation. Furthermore, I do not believe that the tone of the section - with phrases such as 'Apparently', 'juicy phrases', 'things that everybody knows are ridiculous', and the like - fits with the factual tone of Wikipedia.
[...] Böhmermann announced he would try to figure out what is the line between legitimate criticism [...], and "abusive criticism"
As far as I understood, he announced to "illustrate" or "clarify" the difference between the two. He said multiple times before, during and after reciting his poem that this would not be covered by freedom of speech and that it would be illegal even in Germany. Trying to figure out the difference may have been his actual intention, but that was not what he announced in his show. Please read the full context at [2] (page is in German only). -- 91.17.252.192 ( talk) 10:26, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
-- Kmhkmh ( talk) 17:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Sources: The back of the hill (April 17, 2016). "Turkish quatrains by a German poet: Ein schmäh Gedicht von Jan Böhmermann"., The Dirty German Ditty That Got Erdogan So Angry That He Sued Dirty ditty about Turkey’s leader creates diplomatic row Does Anyone Speak Germanglish? I Need Help With A Poem About Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan
This translation avoids rearranging words. Although awkward in English, subject-object-verb order ("I water drank") is natural in German grammar and commonly used for emphassis.
German original | Word-for-word translation |
---|---|
|
Abusive Criticism |
71.41.210.146 ( talk) 14:55, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
Is there a reason that this isn't included in the body of the entry? It's already very verbose and adding this would improve the article. Bangabandhu ( talk) 23:39, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralf_Kabelka
@ Oxenflesh: made a change that I disagree with, which has the description "better English". Oxenflesh seems not to be a native English speaker, neither am I, maybe a native English speaker can chime in. My disagreements are that I think it is all right to use "Kurds" without article (like Christians, which Oxenflesh did add an article to). Also "the man who beats girls" is the actual literal translation. AFAIK, it is also permissible in English to use a "the", simply making it sound like a superlative. I don't see how English is different from German in this regard. -- Ysangkok ( talk) 22:46, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Of course, Boris Johnson also famously made up an offensive poem about Erdoğan in response to the Böhmermann injunction. JezGrove ( talk) 21:00, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
This may be an afterthought, but this January, 2022, Erdogan's *CIVIL* suit, instigated after his criminal suit against Böhmermann had been unsuccessfull, has now succeeded and Böhmermann was sentened to pay 80% of Erdogan's legal costs in the affair, and while the criminal case on whether he had insulted a foreign head of government had been dropped, he is legally barred from repeating the poem in public.
The difference is basically that the original criminal suit dealt with Erdogan's rights as a foreign head of state, while the civil suit dealt with Erdogan's rights as a private citizen. Now, in Janaury, 2022, the German Federal Constitutional Court has affirmed the former ruling of the Appellation Court of Hamburg, dating February, 2017, that Germans may poke fun at foreign heads of state, but not at private citizens, thus fining Böhmermann and barring him from ever repeating parts of the poem in public, imposing an infringement fine of up to 250,000 Euros if he does not desist. Source: [3], original FCC decision: [4] -- 2003:EF:1702:2733:A819:A366:774B:D375 ( talk) 23:40, 10 February 2022 (UTC)