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Aztec sun stone article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 17, 2012, December 17, 2015, December 17, 2019, and December 17, 2020. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 September 2018 and 15 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Peer reviewers:
NickHelfand.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 15:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Have removed the supposed 'alternate meaning' paras which were offered in this recent edit, that had been (rightly) tagged as speculation. No explicit source given, indeed it actually stated that it was "unpublished", therefore not eligible for mention here under WP:NOR, WP:SYN and WP:V at the least. -- cjllw ʘ TALK 04:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR ( talk) 05:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Aztec sun stone → Aztec calendar stone — Inaccurate though it may be, "calendar stone" still seems to be the most common name. — Ptcamn ( talk) 05:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.The article states that this monument "is a calendar". However, this is a monument with some of the calendaring symbols. I just read it in the American Museum of Natural History, that the sun stone is usually considered "a calendar" but is not by any means a calendar. It is only a representation that the Sun was the most important thing to the aztecs and how many things circled around it. I would like to edit the page to remove the fact that is a calendar and instead say that is usually 'confused' as a calendar, but is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nelfer ( talk • contribs) 16:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I would concur in renaming the article to Aztec Sun Stone or some such. The Anthropology Museum in Mexico City itself states that the stone is not a calendar, and was in fact a gladiatorial ceremony stone of some kind. It's called the Sun Stone in Mexico, so that's what the article should be called. MarritzN ( talk) 21:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I see this was brought up in 2009 and nothing was done about it, so I felt this warranted a new section.
Again, the stone is not a calendar and in fact both in Mexico and modern academic discourse the stone is properly called the Sun Stone. The article should really be renamed. It was a gladiatorial sacrifice stone. It depicts the sun and days of the week as depictions of Aztec cosmology but is not tied to their astrological calculations and is in fact useless for dating of any kind. This article is filled with outdated misinformation and I suspect its remained this way because of stubborn editors that insist on keeping up the outdated "popular" view that has been proven false by modern anthropologists and archeologists. 173.56.79.75 ( talk) 02:44, 19 October 2013 (UTC) [the aztec sun calenders'symbols could be realated to the myans holy text such as the symbol of the jaguar in the myans holytext there was a cave that was underground and you or so called the soul has to go through chambers one was cold and darkness one was blood and one was jaguar. I think that the water on the Aztecs sun calender is actualy blood and even though the aztecs and myas fought allot maybe they fought about religion and whos was closser to being correct [ anaamoos ] 1/6/18]
tle usually goes by the most common name in English, not always what is most correct...
AnonMoos (
talk)
03:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
How long did it take for the Aztecs to carve the stone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.58.74.10 ( talk) 20:32, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Overall, this is a very solid article.
A few comments:
- When editing an article with this much pre-existing content, a lot of the work is going to come from evaluating existing claims and their citations. It seems that you've done a bit of this, which is great. - The use of photos in this article is great. There is a nice balance of historical and modern day photos of the calendar stone, as well as some more colorful photos such as the Mexican Amate paper craft. - I like the section on other calendar stones, but I'm not sure that such depth is needed on this page. - The physical description section is good but the "central disk" sub header could likely be improved.
Nice work!
NickHelfand ( talk) 01:10, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
I had a look at the previous discussions of the title, and while 'calendar stone' might be what the stone is most commonly, and incorrectly called, this should not be the Wiki title since it is incorrect. Encyclopedias are not about re-iterating common misconceptions, rather they are about correcting them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.173.250.243 ( talk) 00:11, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 16:36, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Aztec calendar stone →
Aztec sun stone – This article should never have been moved to the current title 'Aztec calendar stone', this has not been the accepted name of the stone for many years at this point, its generally accepted name is 'Aztec sun stone', this is what it's called by those who study the field, as well as its name in the museum which houses it in Mexico. Although it is still fairly common to refer to the stone incorrectly as a calendar, the name 'Aztec calendar stone' is not common, most people would not know what the title is. Even if it were the most common title, an encyclopedia's job is to present correct information, not to reinforce incorrect misconceptions. For example, the most common name for the UK is 'England' or sometimes 'Britain', both of these names are incorrect, therefore the Wikipedia article is titled 'United Kingdom', the more correct, but less common title. Furthermore, the previous discussion on this topic only had one detailed comment, one which was opposed to the move, despite bizarrely being marked 'support', this was perhaps due to an error by the person making the comment. There has since been two commenters on this page disagreeing with the title, suggesting a consensus has emerged against the move.
37.173.250.243 (
talk) 00:35, 9 December 2018 (UTC)--Relisted. –
Ammarpad (
talk)
06:46, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Additionally, the major non-English language articles (the ones that I can understand, ie German, Spanish (the language most common in Mexico, where the sun stone was found and is displayed), French, Italian and Occitan) all translate to 'Sun stone'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.173.250.243 ( talk) 00:41, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:51, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 3 May 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Wikiwikiwave,
Jlevine13 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Jlevine13 ( talk) 06:18, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Aztec sun stone article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 17, 2012, December 17, 2015, December 17, 2019, and December 17, 2020. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 September 2018 and 15 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Peer reviewers:
NickHelfand.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 15:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Have removed the supposed 'alternate meaning' paras which were offered in this recent edit, that had been (rightly) tagged as speculation. No explicit source given, indeed it actually stated that it was "unpublished", therefore not eligible for mention here under WP:NOR, WP:SYN and WP:V at the least. -- cjllw ʘ TALK 04:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR ( talk) 05:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Aztec sun stone → Aztec calendar stone — Inaccurate though it may be, "calendar stone" still seems to be the most common name. — Ptcamn ( talk) 05:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.The article states that this monument "is a calendar". However, this is a monument with some of the calendaring symbols. I just read it in the American Museum of Natural History, that the sun stone is usually considered "a calendar" but is not by any means a calendar. It is only a representation that the Sun was the most important thing to the aztecs and how many things circled around it. I would like to edit the page to remove the fact that is a calendar and instead say that is usually 'confused' as a calendar, but is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nelfer ( talk • contribs) 16:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I would concur in renaming the article to Aztec Sun Stone or some such. The Anthropology Museum in Mexico City itself states that the stone is not a calendar, and was in fact a gladiatorial ceremony stone of some kind. It's called the Sun Stone in Mexico, so that's what the article should be called. MarritzN ( talk) 21:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I see this was brought up in 2009 and nothing was done about it, so I felt this warranted a new section.
Again, the stone is not a calendar and in fact both in Mexico and modern academic discourse the stone is properly called the Sun Stone. The article should really be renamed. It was a gladiatorial sacrifice stone. It depicts the sun and days of the week as depictions of Aztec cosmology but is not tied to their astrological calculations and is in fact useless for dating of any kind. This article is filled with outdated misinformation and I suspect its remained this way because of stubborn editors that insist on keeping up the outdated "popular" view that has been proven false by modern anthropologists and archeologists. 173.56.79.75 ( talk) 02:44, 19 October 2013 (UTC) [the aztec sun calenders'symbols could be realated to the myans holy text such as the symbol of the jaguar in the myans holytext there was a cave that was underground and you or so called the soul has to go through chambers one was cold and darkness one was blood and one was jaguar. I think that the water on the Aztecs sun calender is actualy blood and even though the aztecs and myas fought allot maybe they fought about religion and whos was closser to being correct [ anaamoos ] 1/6/18]
tle usually goes by the most common name in English, not always what is most correct...
AnonMoos (
talk)
03:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
How long did it take for the Aztecs to carve the stone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.58.74.10 ( talk) 20:32, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Overall, this is a very solid article.
A few comments:
- When editing an article with this much pre-existing content, a lot of the work is going to come from evaluating existing claims and their citations. It seems that you've done a bit of this, which is great. - The use of photos in this article is great. There is a nice balance of historical and modern day photos of the calendar stone, as well as some more colorful photos such as the Mexican Amate paper craft. - I like the section on other calendar stones, but I'm not sure that such depth is needed on this page. - The physical description section is good but the "central disk" sub header could likely be improved.
Nice work!
NickHelfand ( talk) 01:10, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
I had a look at the previous discussions of the title, and while 'calendar stone' might be what the stone is most commonly, and incorrectly called, this should not be the Wiki title since it is incorrect. Encyclopedias are not about re-iterating common misconceptions, rather they are about correcting them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.173.250.243 ( talk) 00:11, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 16:36, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Aztec calendar stone →
Aztec sun stone – This article should never have been moved to the current title 'Aztec calendar stone', this has not been the accepted name of the stone for many years at this point, its generally accepted name is 'Aztec sun stone', this is what it's called by those who study the field, as well as its name in the museum which houses it in Mexico. Although it is still fairly common to refer to the stone incorrectly as a calendar, the name 'Aztec calendar stone' is not common, most people would not know what the title is. Even if it were the most common title, an encyclopedia's job is to present correct information, not to reinforce incorrect misconceptions. For example, the most common name for the UK is 'England' or sometimes 'Britain', both of these names are incorrect, therefore the Wikipedia article is titled 'United Kingdom', the more correct, but less common title. Furthermore, the previous discussion on this topic only had one detailed comment, one which was opposed to the move, despite bizarrely being marked 'support', this was perhaps due to an error by the person making the comment. There has since been two commenters on this page disagreeing with the title, suggesting a consensus has emerged against the move.
37.173.250.243 (
talk) 00:35, 9 December 2018 (UTC)--Relisted. –
Ammarpad (
talk)
06:46, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Additionally, the major non-English language articles (the ones that I can understand, ie German, Spanish (the language most common in Mexico, where the sun stone was found and is displayed), French, Italian and Occitan) all translate to 'Sun stone'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.173.250.243 ( talk) 00:41, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:51, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 3 May 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Wikiwikiwave,
Jlevine13 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Jlevine13 ( talk) 06:18, 16 February 2023 (UTC)