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Awol Allo article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Regarding this edit by me which was reverted by Loves Woolf1882, here are the links to Wikipedia guidelines and policies as listed in my edit description (some are common sense, but we can search for policy links if needed):
We can discuss these in more detail if they're not clear. Boud ( talk) 16:44, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
Another key point is that this article is supposed to be about Awol Allo. Abiy Ahmed's responsibility as government leader is only relevant, in this article, in relation to Awol.
In this version by Loves Woolf1882 at 16:47, 19 December 2020, the Ethiopian government arrest warrant section has three paragraphs:
So out of three paragraphs, only about one third of one paragraph is about Awol. The rest is interesting information to give context, but it's way too much and too off-topic to go into so much detail here. Most of these three paragraphs should not be in this article. Boud ( talk) 17:10, 19 December 2020 (UTC) @ Loves Woolf1882: Well-referenced material (or over-referenced material) still has to be on-topic. Boud ( talk) 17:13, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
I don't know how much patience I'll have, but it seems that we have to separate out these issues one by one. Boud ( talk) 08:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
In this edit, I removed your copyright violations in which there was much too much quoting from a Yahoo mirror of The Telegraph, and too much quoting of an ICG article.
You wrote above the Yahoo News one is freely available without subscription for anyone to open & verify, (unlike the The Daily Telegraph one).
If you check
the current version of the article, you'll see that:
Yahoo is generally discouraged as a source, because it just redistributes news from other sources. Readers have more difficulty judging the quality of a source if it's partially hidden by a redistributor. Boud ( talk) 08:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
References
On 20 November, immigration officials in Addis Ababa summoned Crisis Group's Ethiopia Senior Analyst William Davison and informed him he would need to leave the country immediately. He flew to the UK in the early hours of 21 November. Ethiopian authorities have yet to offer a formal reason for the decision. In an earlier tweet, an official in the Prime Minister's office said Mr. Davison's work permit had been revoked, citing alleged labour law breaches. Crisis Group has been transparent and truthful in all representations it has made regarding Mr. Davison's employment. Ultimately, there is little doubt that the reason for his deportation relates to the current tense situation in the country and the authorities' increasing sensitivity to points of view that do not hew to its line. It is noteworthy that around the time Mr. Davison was expelled, authorities also warned the news agency Reuters' Ethiopia correspondent and the BBC and Deutsche Welle stations. Mr. Davison's expulsion comes at a difficult and painful moment for Ethiopia. On 4 November, Africa's second most populous country plunged into a serious conflict between federal troops and security forces from the Tigray region, one of Ethiopia's ten states. The conflict has already cost hundreds of lives and sent tens of thousands of refugees into neighbouring Sudan. Crisis Group and its analysts do not take sides. Their responsibility is to present as faithfully as possible the viewpoints of the relevant parties; their mandate is to prevent and resolve deadly conflicts; their duty is to the civilians caught in their midst. Accordingly, and from the outset, Crisis Group has sought to explain the perspectives of the federal authorities and of the Tigrayan leadership, pressed for an end to hostilities and kept urging the parties to explore a negotiated solution and resolve their differences through political means.
talk-reflist Boud ( talk) 19:43, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
Please have a look at
this edit by me, with the edit description, remove wrong references: the fact is about Awol's claim, the fact is not about whether or not Awol is stating the truth; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_1"; Awol is not in "BBC_ref_7"; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_2"; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_3"; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_4"; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_5"
.
The two sentences that need justification are these: Awol became a critic of Abiy in 2020. Awol has regularly taken to international media outlets like Al Jazeera, CNN and the BBC to criticise what he sees as Mr Abiy's growing authoritarianism, the repression of journalists and political dissidents in Ethiopia.
The fact that is being claimed is that Awol became a critic of Abiy and, in particular, criticised Abiy of becoming increasingly authoritarian. Whether Awol's claim is true or false is irrelevant! It is irrelevant to these two sentences whether or not Abiy really became authoritarian. Awol made that claim. It's Awol's problem if it happens to be false, not Wikipedia's problem; it's to Awol's advantage if it happens to be true. Adding sources to try to show that Awol is correct is confusing to the reader. WP:BLP does not say that we should try to show that living people are correct in what they claim.
Verifiability means that the reader should be able to check whether or not the sources establish the fact that Awol became a critic of Abiy and whether or not Awol made that particular criticism (of Abiy). Adding 6 references that say nothing about the claim is distracting to someone who wants to verify the information about Awol and whether or not Awol made a particular claim.
If someone wants to verify the truth or validity of Awol's criticisms, then s/he might want to read the sources, to see if they give more info, or go to the relevant Wikipedia articles on the general topic about which Awol claims something. In this case, Abiy Ahmed would be the relevant topic, or one of the articles on Human rights in Ethiopia. Boud ( talk) 09:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC) minor fixes Boud ( talk) 19:21, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
addition of these references adds to the verifiability side, since they give a more complete picture of the sentence's intended meaning.
addition of these references adds to the verifiability side, since they give a more complete picture of Awol's sentence's intended meaning.. It is not wrong to give the reader a complete picture, if fact it is better. The references don't talk about cats and dogs (something completely unrelated), they talk about what people are meaning when they talk about the Ethiopian federal government being authoritarian, like Awol did in that sentence. So adding them as a second, third... reference is giving a more complete picture, it is not wrong, it is in fact better. Loves Woolf1882 ( talk) 07:28, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
But LOOOOOOL,sounds to me like words that are mocking KZebegna. You're welcome to state that KZebegna is incorrect and to explain why; but laughing at him/her for being wrong (according to you) is not acceptable. It is not civil and it distracts from serious discussion.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Awol Allo article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Regarding this edit by me which was reverted by Loves Woolf1882, here are the links to Wikipedia guidelines and policies as listed in my edit description (some are common sense, but we can search for policy links if needed):
We can discuss these in more detail if they're not clear. Boud ( talk) 16:44, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
Another key point is that this article is supposed to be about Awol Allo. Abiy Ahmed's responsibility as government leader is only relevant, in this article, in relation to Awol.
In this version by Loves Woolf1882 at 16:47, 19 December 2020, the Ethiopian government arrest warrant section has three paragraphs:
So out of three paragraphs, only about one third of one paragraph is about Awol. The rest is interesting information to give context, but it's way too much and too off-topic to go into so much detail here. Most of these three paragraphs should not be in this article. Boud ( talk) 17:10, 19 December 2020 (UTC) @ Loves Woolf1882: Well-referenced material (or over-referenced material) still has to be on-topic. Boud ( talk) 17:13, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
I don't know how much patience I'll have, but it seems that we have to separate out these issues one by one. Boud ( talk) 08:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
In this edit, I removed your copyright violations in which there was much too much quoting from a Yahoo mirror of The Telegraph, and too much quoting of an ICG article.
You wrote above the Yahoo News one is freely available without subscription for anyone to open & verify, (unlike the The Daily Telegraph one).
If you check
the current version of the article, you'll see that:
Yahoo is generally discouraged as a source, because it just redistributes news from other sources. Readers have more difficulty judging the quality of a source if it's partially hidden by a redistributor. Boud ( talk) 08:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
References
On 20 November, immigration officials in Addis Ababa summoned Crisis Group's Ethiopia Senior Analyst William Davison and informed him he would need to leave the country immediately. He flew to the UK in the early hours of 21 November. Ethiopian authorities have yet to offer a formal reason for the decision. In an earlier tweet, an official in the Prime Minister's office said Mr. Davison's work permit had been revoked, citing alleged labour law breaches. Crisis Group has been transparent and truthful in all representations it has made regarding Mr. Davison's employment. Ultimately, there is little doubt that the reason for his deportation relates to the current tense situation in the country and the authorities' increasing sensitivity to points of view that do not hew to its line. It is noteworthy that around the time Mr. Davison was expelled, authorities also warned the news agency Reuters' Ethiopia correspondent and the BBC and Deutsche Welle stations. Mr. Davison's expulsion comes at a difficult and painful moment for Ethiopia. On 4 November, Africa's second most populous country plunged into a serious conflict between federal troops and security forces from the Tigray region, one of Ethiopia's ten states. The conflict has already cost hundreds of lives and sent tens of thousands of refugees into neighbouring Sudan. Crisis Group and its analysts do not take sides. Their responsibility is to present as faithfully as possible the viewpoints of the relevant parties; their mandate is to prevent and resolve deadly conflicts; their duty is to the civilians caught in their midst. Accordingly, and from the outset, Crisis Group has sought to explain the perspectives of the federal authorities and of the Tigrayan leadership, pressed for an end to hostilities and kept urging the parties to explore a negotiated solution and resolve their differences through political means.
talk-reflist Boud ( talk) 19:43, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
Please have a look at
this edit by me, with the edit description, remove wrong references: the fact is about Awol's claim, the fact is not about whether or not Awol is stating the truth; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_1"; Awol is not in "BBC_ref_7"; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_2"; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_3"; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_4"; Awol is not in "Amnesty_International_ref_5"
.
The two sentences that need justification are these: Awol became a critic of Abiy in 2020. Awol has regularly taken to international media outlets like Al Jazeera, CNN and the BBC to criticise what he sees as Mr Abiy's growing authoritarianism, the repression of journalists and political dissidents in Ethiopia.
The fact that is being claimed is that Awol became a critic of Abiy and, in particular, criticised Abiy of becoming increasingly authoritarian. Whether Awol's claim is true or false is irrelevant! It is irrelevant to these two sentences whether or not Abiy really became authoritarian. Awol made that claim. It's Awol's problem if it happens to be false, not Wikipedia's problem; it's to Awol's advantage if it happens to be true. Adding sources to try to show that Awol is correct is confusing to the reader. WP:BLP does not say that we should try to show that living people are correct in what they claim.
Verifiability means that the reader should be able to check whether or not the sources establish the fact that Awol became a critic of Abiy and whether or not Awol made that particular criticism (of Abiy). Adding 6 references that say nothing about the claim is distracting to someone who wants to verify the information about Awol and whether or not Awol made a particular claim.
If someone wants to verify the truth or validity of Awol's criticisms, then s/he might want to read the sources, to see if they give more info, or go to the relevant Wikipedia articles on the general topic about which Awol claims something. In this case, Abiy Ahmed would be the relevant topic, or one of the articles on Human rights in Ethiopia. Boud ( talk) 09:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC) minor fixes Boud ( talk) 19:21, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
addition of these references adds to the verifiability side, since they give a more complete picture of the sentence's intended meaning.
addition of these references adds to the verifiability side, since they give a more complete picture of Awol's sentence's intended meaning.. It is not wrong to give the reader a complete picture, if fact it is better. The references don't talk about cats and dogs (something completely unrelated), they talk about what people are meaning when they talk about the Ethiopian federal government being authoritarian, like Awol did in that sentence. So adding them as a second, third... reference is giving a more complete picture, it is not wrong, it is in fact better. Loves Woolf1882 ( talk) 07:28, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
But LOOOOOOL,sounds to me like words that are mocking KZebegna. You're welcome to state that KZebegna is incorrect and to explain why; but laughing at him/her for being wrong (according to you) is not acceptable. It is not civil and it distracts from serious discussion.