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The Rav's legal name was Victor for those wondering.-- רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 06:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
can somebody please work on this paragraph and place it in the article?
Rabbi Miller's view on food was different from that of other Rabbis. While other rabbis, using the Mussar approach, would consider the eating of foods such as pizza as a pleasurable activity which should be minimized, Rabbi Millers view was that such foods, having been created by God, should be eaten and enjoyed to the fullest, so that one should be able to give thanks to god for the delicious delicacies that he created. 14:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
This is the most anemic collaboration! People - spew some text so I can copyedit it... I suck at actually writing articles, it appears... - CrazyRussian talk/ email 14:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Um, Nesh, are there any other quotes we could put in instead of wht you have there, something that is not so... gratuitously inflammatory, and perhaps more related to the subject at hand. Something Torah'dik, not political like that? - CrazyRussian talk/ email 14:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Rabbi miller looked exteremly young even at a very old age, with a black-ish beard.... he slept on a wooden board at night?
16:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
He is not notable for his work at that yeshiva, if he is popular its only for his tapes due to his lectures so this is the main lead not some small relative unnoticeable job he held for a few years in chaim berlin. which he was thrown out of and the head of that yeshiva did not even attend his funeral although he lives just a few blocks down-- יודל 15:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Now that I look again, the lead already states that he was an author and lecturer, so your added bit is redundant. Yossiea (talk) 15:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
1) Removing the Chaim Berlin thing is wrong. He served there for twenty years, that is way notable to be included. 2) You don't need to re-write the lead. It was fine as is. 3) Since English is not your first language, I will point out that accumulate is not really what you're trying to say. 4) A lead should not have that much detail. The way it is now is fine, and anything else can go in the article, if it's warranted. Yossiea (talk) 17:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi to both of you. Per a request for a third opinion, I'm weighing in on this. I'd like to point out that both of you are approaching a violation of the three-revert rule. The edit warring really needs to stop. (Note that this is not an endorsement of one side or the other, I'm not qualified to have an opinion there). While it's great that there's a discussion taking place on the pages, at this point it might be more productive to attempt some sort of [[WP:DISPUTE| dispute resolution. Best, -- Bfigura ( talk) 22:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Doing some research on this, even on Wikipedia, reveals how wrong and strange Yidisheryid ( talk · contribs) edits are and how he will stop at nothing to twist the truth.
User:Yidisheryid says that Rabbi Miller:
So it's pretty obvious that User:Yidisheryid is very misguided about his edits. IZAK 22:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, (1) Rabbi Aaron Schechter was at one time a : student of, colleague and friend of Rabbi Miller. It is known to those who knew them. (2) Rabbi Perlow was a full-time student at Yeshiva Chaim Berlin and its Kollel Gur Aryeh and he was a public disciple of Rav Hutner. (3) Rabbi Perlow was one of the speakers at Rabbi Miller's funeral, that's a fact. (4) I did not say anywhere that Rabbi Perlow spoke about Rabbi Miller's "relation" with Agudath Israel! All I said was that Rabbi Perlow, a disciple of Rabbi Hutner and Chaim Berlin yeshiva, spoke at the funeral of Rabbi Miller, and they were words of praise for and about Rabbi Miller. Rabbi Perlow did not talk about any politics, only about the greatness of Rabbi Miller. (5) For twenty one years Rabbi Miller was the mashgiach ruchani at Chaim Berlin yeshiva. During that time he became a legend in his lifetime in the yeshiva and outside of it (even if it has been a long time and some may not know this or deliberately wish to block it out.) It was then that he began to formulate his ideas for his books based on his discussions with students. (6) Twenty years on the job as masgiach ruchani at one of the top yeshivas in America is notable by any yardstick. (7) Without Rabbi Hutner, Rabbi Miller would have been out on the street and who knows what the Haredi world may have lost if not for Rabbi Hutner's brilliant intervention and act of skillful leadership. I have to go, it's almost Shabbat. IZAK 22:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
YY, your statements are contradictory and also false. How could R' Hutner want to capitalize on R' Miller by making R' Miller a mashgiach, if he was a nobody? Secondly, you state that R' Miller was a rabbi in a community that had the largest number of Jews in America. That is false. No city in Massachusetts EVER had the most Jews in America. Yossiea (talk) 01:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
YY, I just want to say thanks. It is because of people like you and Daniel and others like you that scare away editors with your pushing your POV across. You ruined this article with your edits. You have taken a pretty good article and just mangled it to no end with many nonsensical edits. You state on your page that English is not your mamme lushon, well can you please then leave the English wiki alone? I'm not saying this as an attack, but many of your edits make no sense. Yossiea (talk) 13:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
The category "Creationists" was added. There's a statement in the article to support it, and certainly he like essentially all Haredi rabbis would have been an opponent of evolution, but there needs to be some documentation that he was significant enough in this respect to warrant the category. DGG ( talk)
The controversy section isn't entirely accurate. The sefer the information is from, I beleive, was written by others from his shiurim. I have heard the context for the first issue, which I hope to put up when i can find the exact source, and it's very different from how it sounds. -- 173.54.14.108 ( talk) 22:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
I think this section should be removed. First, there is no source given to indicate these controversies are anything more than problems a reader had. Second, the "issues" are incorrect. The first issue, Rav Miller zt"l's alledged trivializing of spoyusal abuse, was actually talking about the repairing process, and only said that the hurt spouse (wife in this example) should accept sincere regret and attempts to repair the rrelationship, not that it should just be accepted. He also uses many harsh terms for people who abuse their spouses. The second isssue, regarding beating children, was actually a quote from a Sefer/book from some centuries ago, about the type of disciplining that was accepted then. There was nothing I saw about it still being a good idea today. -- 173.54.14.108 ( talk) 01:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
The "bibliography" section (should be called "list of works", in my opinion to have congruency with articles such as the one on Akiva Tatz) is missing the publication dates of several of Rav Miller's books. If anyone can supply this information--would be appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.97.85.18 ( talk) 23:22, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
I am the executive director of Simchas Hachaim Publishing, the official publisher of Rabbi Miller's book and tapes, a division of Yeshiva Gedolah Bais Yisroel, under the direction of the Miller family.
I have no special interest in contributing to WikiPedia, however I have joined this wiki page for the sole purpose of providing accurate information about Rabbi Miller.
Note that the following titles by B. Miller are unauthorized, and the author was forbidden by Bais Din from publishing or selling them: "Thursday Nights with Rabbi Miller vol. 1 & 2" and "Rabbi Avigdor Miller conducts the Seder." I will not permit these to be added to the Bibliiography list (they were already removed once by Wikipedia staff, June 2013). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baisyisroel ( talk • contribs) 15:14, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:18, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
The article as it's stood for a while says "see also R' Samson Raphael Hirsch" at the bottom. Propose we delete that ... I'm not seeing a particular connection to RSRH; unless it's "for an example of an Orthodox rabbi with very different hashkafos ...". I don't know who exactly put that up when or why. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.18.109.24 ( talk) 06:28, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Okay I'm going ahead and deleting the "see also R' Hirsch"; if someone feels it adds to the article, feel free to revert. For now I think its sole purpose is "see for contrast" ... but a novice reader glancing through the article would just be confused. 108.18.109.24 ( talk) 10:17, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
in Judaism it is very disrespectful to refer to a great rabbi like Rabbi Avigdor Miller as "Avigdor Miller". He should be referred to as "Rabbi Avigdor Miller" or as "Rav Avigdor Miller". Proposal to refer to him as such in the entire article. 67.81.163.55 ( talk) 02:30, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
The following sentences are subjective or making evaluations based on quotes taken out of context: "[Rabbi Miller is] most prominently known for instigating and invigorating extreme right-wing politics in American Orthodox Jewry"- This is fully subjective and not based on objective research and fact. Just to make a point, over 70,000 people per week currently (as of August 2022) read a weekly publication of his lectures and I assure you they would not agree with this characterization of what Rabbi Miller is "most prominently known for".
The sentence "Miller believed that black people were inferior to white people" is again fully subjective and not based on objective research and fact. See this source https://torasavigdor.org/rav-avigdor-miller-on-minority-jokes/ where he clearly states "to make leitzanus of [make fun of] people because they’re black or brown doesn’t make sense at all. Being black or brown is no sin. You can’t make leitzanus [fun] about that."
"He criticized the Emancipation Proclamation, saying that it would have been better for African-Americans to have endured another 50 to 100 years of slavery in order to 'civilize' them" "Miller was a supporter of police brutality against those he perceived to be criminals or members of an inferior race." It is obvious to anyone who has studied Rabbi Miller's works at length that he was saying these words facetiously, supporting a conservative viewpoint of law and order. These were not formal quotes or opinions. The contibutor of these lines is making a subjective evaluation and taking quotes out of context. It is also telling that the 2nd source quoted is a book of Q&A that was not authorized by Rabbi Miller or his family to be published, further reflecting the notion that these were not meant to be taken literally or published broadly.
One must keep in mind that Rabbi Miller has over 1400 (!) recorded lectures. Most were given at his synagogue to a relatively small crowd. It is unfair to take random quotes from a recording and make broad characterizations without understanding the full context of the time, location, and manner/style/tone in which the words were said.
Rabbi Miller was also a prolific author and never wrote words like these. This is much more telling than quotes taken out of context. Hashomayim ( talk) 19:07, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
It is unusual - but in a good way, in my view, at least - to see "chavurah," rather than "chaburah," which has an entirely different meaning: a bruise or wound (e.g., Shemos 21:25).
Thus, "chavurah," not "chaburah," in this meaning (company, association, party) is the grammatically correct form.
But these days we almost always see "chaburah" even in this context.
It is interesting to note that "chavurah" actually supports *both* meanings; see Yeshayahu 53:5. But if there is any evidence that that crossover goes also in the opposite direction, I am not aware of it. Toddcs ( talk) 14:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
As a serious student of Rabbi Miller, I think it's a disgrace that the legacy/views section focuses purely on his most controversial opinions, as if this article is a tabloid. His most widely expressed, repeated and emphasized view was on the good in seeing and appreciating God in His creations, mainly nature. He circled back to this talking point hundreds of times throughout his lectures and books. Additionally, character improvement was a huge focus, including but not limited to kindness, awareness/love/awe of God, loving one's fellow, being aware of ones actions, peace in the home, finding good company, etc. Generally, in adding this to the article I'd just refer to religious character improvement, or something similar. These 2 views should be added to the article, I will work on an addition with sources etc. not-withstanding objections that may be made in the replies here. Additionally, in terms of legacy, the article leaves out a good portion of his legacy. Subject to objection, I will work on a mention of the weekly pamphlet with a dialogue compiled from his speeches e-mailed and distributed in print worldwide. The pamphlet itself claims over 50,000 prints are distributed weekly. Also, I would like to add mention to how his tapes are still widely listened to in modern audio form, subject to objection. All will be sourced, as per WP guidelines. I would also like to combine the two statements currently quoted on African Americans into one paragraph in the general format of 'Although he said "X", he also said "X", indicating 'X'.' JoeJShmo ( talk) 01:11, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
User:Nycarchitecture212 removed this paragraph:
With the justification "He never said black people should be slaves it doesn't belong on this Wikipedia page. I checked the source and he was caricaturizing people who believe those things and in that quote was speaking against that. If you have a different reading of the work I'd love to see your sourcing please discuss on talk page".
Tablet Magazine is generally considered a reliable source, and it does say, to quote its exact words "...Avigdor Miller, who defended slavery as an ennobling institution that should not have been abolished...". It concerns me we are removing a claim cited to a reliable source, and the justification seems to be that an editor's assertion that the source is misrepresenting what Miller actually said. Can someone share Miller's exact words on this topic so everyone can see them for themselves whether or not Tablet is in fact misrepresenting them?
I can cite some other things Miller said on slavery, which many people would consider very offensive, TAPE # 606 (August 1986):
SomethingForDeletion ( talk) 22:05, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't understand why the portrait (which I understand Wikipedia is licensed to use) has been replaced by a picture of his grave. The standard for biographical articles is that the infobox contains a picture of a person, not a picture of their grave. While photographs are preferred to portraits, many articles do contain portraits (especially for historical figures who lived before photography). A photograph Wikipedia is licensed to use would be ideal, but in the absence of such a photograph, a portrait is still better than a grave image. SomethingForDeletion ( talk) 01:49, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
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The Rav's legal name was Victor for those wondering.-- רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 06:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
can somebody please work on this paragraph and place it in the article?
Rabbi Miller's view on food was different from that of other Rabbis. While other rabbis, using the Mussar approach, would consider the eating of foods such as pizza as a pleasurable activity which should be minimized, Rabbi Millers view was that such foods, having been created by God, should be eaten and enjoyed to the fullest, so that one should be able to give thanks to god for the delicious delicacies that he created. 14:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
This is the most anemic collaboration! People - spew some text so I can copyedit it... I suck at actually writing articles, it appears... - CrazyRussian talk/ email 14:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Um, Nesh, are there any other quotes we could put in instead of wht you have there, something that is not so... gratuitously inflammatory, and perhaps more related to the subject at hand. Something Torah'dik, not political like that? - CrazyRussian talk/ email 14:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Rabbi miller looked exteremly young even at a very old age, with a black-ish beard.... he slept on a wooden board at night?
16:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
He is not notable for his work at that yeshiva, if he is popular its only for his tapes due to his lectures so this is the main lead not some small relative unnoticeable job he held for a few years in chaim berlin. which he was thrown out of and the head of that yeshiva did not even attend his funeral although he lives just a few blocks down-- יודל 15:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Now that I look again, the lead already states that he was an author and lecturer, so your added bit is redundant. Yossiea (talk) 15:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
1) Removing the Chaim Berlin thing is wrong. He served there for twenty years, that is way notable to be included. 2) You don't need to re-write the lead. It was fine as is. 3) Since English is not your first language, I will point out that accumulate is not really what you're trying to say. 4) A lead should not have that much detail. The way it is now is fine, and anything else can go in the article, if it's warranted. Yossiea (talk) 17:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi to both of you. Per a request for a third opinion, I'm weighing in on this. I'd like to point out that both of you are approaching a violation of the three-revert rule. The edit warring really needs to stop. (Note that this is not an endorsement of one side or the other, I'm not qualified to have an opinion there). While it's great that there's a discussion taking place on the pages, at this point it might be more productive to attempt some sort of [[WP:DISPUTE| dispute resolution. Best, -- Bfigura ( talk) 22:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Doing some research on this, even on Wikipedia, reveals how wrong and strange Yidisheryid ( talk · contribs) edits are and how he will stop at nothing to twist the truth.
User:Yidisheryid says that Rabbi Miller:
So it's pretty obvious that User:Yidisheryid is very misguided about his edits. IZAK 22:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, (1) Rabbi Aaron Schechter was at one time a : student of, colleague and friend of Rabbi Miller. It is known to those who knew them. (2) Rabbi Perlow was a full-time student at Yeshiva Chaim Berlin and its Kollel Gur Aryeh and he was a public disciple of Rav Hutner. (3) Rabbi Perlow was one of the speakers at Rabbi Miller's funeral, that's a fact. (4) I did not say anywhere that Rabbi Perlow spoke about Rabbi Miller's "relation" with Agudath Israel! All I said was that Rabbi Perlow, a disciple of Rabbi Hutner and Chaim Berlin yeshiva, spoke at the funeral of Rabbi Miller, and they were words of praise for and about Rabbi Miller. Rabbi Perlow did not talk about any politics, only about the greatness of Rabbi Miller. (5) For twenty one years Rabbi Miller was the mashgiach ruchani at Chaim Berlin yeshiva. During that time he became a legend in his lifetime in the yeshiva and outside of it (even if it has been a long time and some may not know this or deliberately wish to block it out.) It was then that he began to formulate his ideas for his books based on his discussions with students. (6) Twenty years on the job as masgiach ruchani at one of the top yeshivas in America is notable by any yardstick. (7) Without Rabbi Hutner, Rabbi Miller would have been out on the street and who knows what the Haredi world may have lost if not for Rabbi Hutner's brilliant intervention and act of skillful leadership. I have to go, it's almost Shabbat. IZAK 22:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
YY, your statements are contradictory and also false. How could R' Hutner want to capitalize on R' Miller by making R' Miller a mashgiach, if he was a nobody? Secondly, you state that R' Miller was a rabbi in a community that had the largest number of Jews in America. That is false. No city in Massachusetts EVER had the most Jews in America. Yossiea (talk) 01:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
YY, I just want to say thanks. It is because of people like you and Daniel and others like you that scare away editors with your pushing your POV across. You ruined this article with your edits. You have taken a pretty good article and just mangled it to no end with many nonsensical edits. You state on your page that English is not your mamme lushon, well can you please then leave the English wiki alone? I'm not saying this as an attack, but many of your edits make no sense. Yossiea (talk) 13:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
The category "Creationists" was added. There's a statement in the article to support it, and certainly he like essentially all Haredi rabbis would have been an opponent of evolution, but there needs to be some documentation that he was significant enough in this respect to warrant the category. DGG ( talk)
The controversy section isn't entirely accurate. The sefer the information is from, I beleive, was written by others from his shiurim. I have heard the context for the first issue, which I hope to put up when i can find the exact source, and it's very different from how it sounds. -- 173.54.14.108 ( talk) 22:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
I think this section should be removed. First, there is no source given to indicate these controversies are anything more than problems a reader had. Second, the "issues" are incorrect. The first issue, Rav Miller zt"l's alledged trivializing of spoyusal abuse, was actually talking about the repairing process, and only said that the hurt spouse (wife in this example) should accept sincere regret and attempts to repair the rrelationship, not that it should just be accepted. He also uses many harsh terms for people who abuse their spouses. The second isssue, regarding beating children, was actually a quote from a Sefer/book from some centuries ago, about the type of disciplining that was accepted then. There was nothing I saw about it still being a good idea today. -- 173.54.14.108 ( talk) 01:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
The "bibliography" section (should be called "list of works", in my opinion to have congruency with articles such as the one on Akiva Tatz) is missing the publication dates of several of Rav Miller's books. If anyone can supply this information--would be appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.97.85.18 ( talk) 23:22, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
I am the executive director of Simchas Hachaim Publishing, the official publisher of Rabbi Miller's book and tapes, a division of Yeshiva Gedolah Bais Yisroel, under the direction of the Miller family.
I have no special interest in contributing to WikiPedia, however I have joined this wiki page for the sole purpose of providing accurate information about Rabbi Miller.
Note that the following titles by B. Miller are unauthorized, and the author was forbidden by Bais Din from publishing or selling them: "Thursday Nights with Rabbi Miller vol. 1 & 2" and "Rabbi Avigdor Miller conducts the Seder." I will not permit these to be added to the Bibliiography list (they were already removed once by Wikipedia staff, June 2013). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baisyisroel ( talk • contribs) 15:14, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:25, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:18, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
The article as it's stood for a while says "see also R' Samson Raphael Hirsch" at the bottom. Propose we delete that ... I'm not seeing a particular connection to RSRH; unless it's "for an example of an Orthodox rabbi with very different hashkafos ...". I don't know who exactly put that up when or why. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.18.109.24 ( talk) 06:28, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Okay I'm going ahead and deleting the "see also R' Hirsch"; if someone feels it adds to the article, feel free to revert. For now I think its sole purpose is "see for contrast" ... but a novice reader glancing through the article would just be confused. 108.18.109.24 ( talk) 10:17, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
in Judaism it is very disrespectful to refer to a great rabbi like Rabbi Avigdor Miller as "Avigdor Miller". He should be referred to as "Rabbi Avigdor Miller" or as "Rav Avigdor Miller". Proposal to refer to him as such in the entire article. 67.81.163.55 ( talk) 02:30, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
The following sentences are subjective or making evaluations based on quotes taken out of context: "[Rabbi Miller is] most prominently known for instigating and invigorating extreme right-wing politics in American Orthodox Jewry"- This is fully subjective and not based on objective research and fact. Just to make a point, over 70,000 people per week currently (as of August 2022) read a weekly publication of his lectures and I assure you they would not agree with this characterization of what Rabbi Miller is "most prominently known for".
The sentence "Miller believed that black people were inferior to white people" is again fully subjective and not based on objective research and fact. See this source https://torasavigdor.org/rav-avigdor-miller-on-minority-jokes/ where he clearly states "to make leitzanus of [make fun of] people because they’re black or brown doesn’t make sense at all. Being black or brown is no sin. You can’t make leitzanus [fun] about that."
"He criticized the Emancipation Proclamation, saying that it would have been better for African-Americans to have endured another 50 to 100 years of slavery in order to 'civilize' them" "Miller was a supporter of police brutality against those he perceived to be criminals or members of an inferior race." It is obvious to anyone who has studied Rabbi Miller's works at length that he was saying these words facetiously, supporting a conservative viewpoint of law and order. These were not formal quotes or opinions. The contibutor of these lines is making a subjective evaluation and taking quotes out of context. It is also telling that the 2nd source quoted is a book of Q&A that was not authorized by Rabbi Miller or his family to be published, further reflecting the notion that these were not meant to be taken literally or published broadly.
One must keep in mind that Rabbi Miller has over 1400 (!) recorded lectures. Most were given at his synagogue to a relatively small crowd. It is unfair to take random quotes from a recording and make broad characterizations without understanding the full context of the time, location, and manner/style/tone in which the words were said.
Rabbi Miller was also a prolific author and never wrote words like these. This is much more telling than quotes taken out of context. Hashomayim ( talk) 19:07, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
It is unusual - but in a good way, in my view, at least - to see "chavurah," rather than "chaburah," which has an entirely different meaning: a bruise or wound (e.g., Shemos 21:25).
Thus, "chavurah," not "chaburah," in this meaning (company, association, party) is the grammatically correct form.
But these days we almost always see "chaburah" even in this context.
It is interesting to note that "chavurah" actually supports *both* meanings; see Yeshayahu 53:5. But if there is any evidence that that crossover goes also in the opposite direction, I am not aware of it. Toddcs ( talk) 14:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
As a serious student of Rabbi Miller, I think it's a disgrace that the legacy/views section focuses purely on his most controversial opinions, as if this article is a tabloid. His most widely expressed, repeated and emphasized view was on the good in seeing and appreciating God in His creations, mainly nature. He circled back to this talking point hundreds of times throughout his lectures and books. Additionally, character improvement was a huge focus, including but not limited to kindness, awareness/love/awe of God, loving one's fellow, being aware of ones actions, peace in the home, finding good company, etc. Generally, in adding this to the article I'd just refer to religious character improvement, or something similar. These 2 views should be added to the article, I will work on an addition with sources etc. not-withstanding objections that may be made in the replies here. Additionally, in terms of legacy, the article leaves out a good portion of his legacy. Subject to objection, I will work on a mention of the weekly pamphlet with a dialogue compiled from his speeches e-mailed and distributed in print worldwide. The pamphlet itself claims over 50,000 prints are distributed weekly. Also, I would like to add mention to how his tapes are still widely listened to in modern audio form, subject to objection. All will be sourced, as per WP guidelines. I would also like to combine the two statements currently quoted on African Americans into one paragraph in the general format of 'Although he said "X", he also said "X", indicating 'X'.' JoeJShmo ( talk) 01:11, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
User:Nycarchitecture212 removed this paragraph:
With the justification "He never said black people should be slaves it doesn't belong on this Wikipedia page. I checked the source and he was caricaturizing people who believe those things and in that quote was speaking against that. If you have a different reading of the work I'd love to see your sourcing please discuss on talk page".
Tablet Magazine is generally considered a reliable source, and it does say, to quote its exact words "...Avigdor Miller, who defended slavery as an ennobling institution that should not have been abolished...". It concerns me we are removing a claim cited to a reliable source, and the justification seems to be that an editor's assertion that the source is misrepresenting what Miller actually said. Can someone share Miller's exact words on this topic so everyone can see them for themselves whether or not Tablet is in fact misrepresenting them?
I can cite some other things Miller said on slavery, which many people would consider very offensive, TAPE # 606 (August 1986):
SomethingForDeletion ( talk) 22:05, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't understand why the portrait (which I understand Wikipedia is licensed to use) has been replaced by a picture of his grave. The standard for biographical articles is that the infobox contains a picture of a person, not a picture of their grave. While photographs are preferred to portraits, many articles do contain portraits (especially for historical figures who lived before photography). A photograph Wikipedia is licensed to use would be ideal, but in the absence of such a photograph, a portrait is still better than a grave image. SomethingForDeletion ( talk) 01:49, 6 April 2024 (UTC)