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Archive 1 |
After or among the Tibetan Paragraph?; open to suggestions and/or brutal editing. Nhrenton 12:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
The article said: "In the Theravada tradition of Southeast Asia, Avalokiteśvara is known as Lokeśvara (Lord of the World)." I took this out, since I don't think Avalokiteśvara is known in Theravada at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong.— Nat Krause( Talk!) 06:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
The Mongolian name of Migjid Janraisig means "the Lord Who Looks in Every Direction;" Nidü-ber üjegci means "He Who Looks with the Eyes." While the worship of Avalokitesvara was repressed during Communist rule under the Stalinist rule of Horloogyin Choybalsan, the deity has enjoyed a renaissance since the 1990s. The dominant trend within Mongolian Buddhism is the Tibetan Gelupga sect; as a result, Mongolians hold the Dalai Lama as Avalokitesvara's earthly manifestation. A 26.5 metre statue of the deity was rebuilt in 1996 at the Gandantegchinlen Khiid Monastery, where an active monastic community has blossomed.
(There is an article about Mongolian Buddhism on the Gendantegchinlen Khiid Monastery article, but I find it heavy going--and not very specific re Avalokitesvra. You might be able to read it more profitably.) Nhrenton 14:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Quick question here! Am I correct in thinking that Avalokiteshvara is the Sanskrit name and Chenrezig is the Tibetan name? I know that the Sanskrit pronunciation of Om Mani Padma Hum is described as 'the mantra of Avalokiteshvara' whereas the Tibetan pronunciation Om Mani Peme Hung is described as 'the mantra of Chenrezig'.
Sorry. Didn't read it properly! (the lay out of the page makes it easy to miss the 'in Tibetan' bit) But maybe it should be right at the start - Avalokiteśvara or Avalokiteshvar, अवलोकितेश्वर (Sanskrit, lit. "Lord who looks down") (Tibetan: Chenrezig). Or maybe not?
Is Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara's name pronounced [ˌa.ˈval.ɔ.kit.eʃ.ˈva.ɹa], or is it a different pronunciation? ionas68224| talk| contribs| email 22:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Oppose merge. While they are considered to be the same, they are culturally quite different. A combined article could not go into the depth that separate articles could. Cundi 14:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose. The articles were originally the same, but were split off in 2004 (see [1]) and, IMHO, quite successfully. Jpatokal 16:17, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose. The figure of Guan Yin (Quan Am in Vietnam) requires separate treatment. Many people in Vietnam who are very familiar with Quan Am have never heard of Avalokiteshvara. There is no doubt an historical connection, but Quan Am is now a separate figure. Merging these two articles would be like merging the article on the French language with the article on Latin, on the theory that historically French is an offshoot of Latin. DoktorMax 06:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Comment. I am getting rid of the merge box. There are 3 opposes and no reason for merges. Benjwong 01:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I am not a Buddhist nor Chinese speaker nor a Japanese speaker. I could not understand some statements due to the use of Japanese or Chinese words without the English IAST with them. Few examples:
Lokeśvara-rāja ( 盧迦委斯諦, lit. 'King of world sovereignty') is another epithet of Avalokiteśvara. The Chinese interpretation of Lokeśvara-rāja 世自在王 is 'World Sovereign King'. īśvara 自在 n. lord, adj. free; unrestrained; unrestricted; liberated. In Chinese Dharma-character school 法相宗, 自在 vb. means 主宰 to dominate; to dictate; to govern; to predominate; to rule or to reign.
Please write which language it is for words like 盧迦委斯諦,自在. Write English IAST words for 法相宗, 自在. It would be appreciated if written in this format: e.g Avalokiteśvara or Avalokiteshvar, (Sanskrit: अवलोकितेश्वर , lit. "Lord who looks down") ie Word in English (Language: in local script , lit. meaning).
Avalokiteśvara is known as Guan Yin ( 觀音)
Which language:觀音????
Six forms of Avalokiteśvara in Mahayana (defined by Tian-tai, terrace) 天臺六觀音: 1. 大悲觀音great compassion, 2. 大慈觀音great loving-kindness, 3. 獅子無畏觀音lion-courage, 4. 大光普照觀音universal light, 5. 天人丈夫觀音leader amongst gods and men, 6. 大梵深遠觀音, 大梵至聖觀音 the great omnipresent Brahma
Meaning given but the terms not given in English, same applies to the Chinese column in Manifestations table and Vajrayana para:
Seven forms of Avalokiteśvara in esoteric Buddhism 密教七觀音: 1. 不空羅索觀音not empty (or unerring) net, or lasso. Amoghapāśa. 2. 千手千眼面觀音1000-hand and 1000-eye, vara-sahasrabhuja-locana/Sahasrabhujasahasranetra, 3. 馬頭觀音horseheaded, Hayagriva, 4. 十一面觀音11-faced, Ekadasamukha, 5. 准提觀音 Cundi, 6. 如意輪觀音wheel of sovereign power, Cintamani-cakra; 7. 聖觀音, 正觀音holy one, 聖觀自在arya Lokiteśvara, the Holy sovereign beholder of the world (loka), a translation of īśvara, means ‘ruler’ or ‘sovereign’.
I request the editors to address these concerns.-- Redtigerxyz 06:50, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know whether or not it's right, but I changed the infobox to conform with its template. Presumably this was an older form of the infobox (I couldn't find the revision in question), but at some point it got changed and thereby broken, perhaps because that form of the name is Nepali and not Sanskrit? I'm guessing and don't know the languages, but any such change (incorporating another language) would need to be made in parallel in the Bodhisattva Infobox template -- which, incidentally, uses Avalokiteśvara as an example of its usage. / Ninly ( talk) 20:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
According to LGBT themes in mythology, this figure is somehow LGBT-related. Does anyone know how, even if it is disputed? If not, i've tagged it for removal Yob Mod 13:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I can get this name in Cyrillic if desired; how shall that be handled in the name box? English AND Cyrillic? Also, Migjid Janraisig seems to be the more popular (perhaps more nationalistically Mongolian?) name for Avaloskitevara. Should it perhaps be listed first in the first paragraph? Furthermore--doea anyone have suggestions for how to handle the name Migjid Janraisig in stories withina purely Mongolian context. As time permits, I shall try to introduce something on the renaissance of this deity in Mongolia. Nhrenton 13:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Nat. Here the Cyrillic: Мигжид Жанрайсиг .Mind you, there's also classical Mongolian horizontal script (which is perhaps more theologically correct), but it's a tricky font issue. I'm off to Asia until the new year; I'm afraid I'll only be able to give you a poor effort (being an Anglican/Episcopalian); I'll put it here--if you think it'll do as a start, feel free to add it in your recommended space. I'm guessing about some of the names. I fear it gets off topic out of ignorance; about all I could divine from it was that Mongolians tend to be Gelupga.
By the way--Is that Xongsim name a Chinese name from Inner Mongolia?
the following books...
^^^^
FYI
-- 124.78.226.174 ( talk) 11:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
It should now be apparent that the original name is "Avalokitasvara", and was for around 600 years during the bulk of development of Mahayana Buddhism in India. "Avalokiteśvara" is a different modification of this that changes the meaning and implications of the bodhisattva's characteristics. For example, in many Mahayana sutras, "Avalokitasvara" is associated with sound and meditation methods involving listening to sounds. These would have all been "Avalokitasvara" in the original Sanskrit (predating 7th century). In the Chinese translations, they were basically all "Guanshiyin" or "Guanyin" (before Xuanzang's time) which is again an exact translation of "Avalokitasvara". Although an argument for keeping "Avalokiteśvara" could be made for purposes of its use in Tibetan Buddhism (which inherited the later Sanskrit terms for some uses in mantras), in fact "Chenrezig" is more widely attested in Tibet. Furthermore, the main mantra associated with Avalokitasvara in Tibet, has no direct reference to a name (om manipadme hum), so this does not cause a conflict. That leaves the West as the only place that uses "Avalokiteśvara" as a general purpose name, and we now know that the name does not apply before the 7th century when the overwhelming majority of Mahayana texts were authored. For these reasons, I believe the page and its contents should use "Avalokitasvara" as the more correct and accurate general term. A redirect from Avalokiteśvara and its alternate romanizations would be automatic. Tengu800 ( talk) 12:30, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
I am not a specialist in this area at all, but stumbled into this through visiting the temples at Angkor. The stunning Bayon temple, and the gate entrances to Angkor Thom, were all created under the reign of Jayavarman VII, whose military, diplomatic and imperial success is represented in this most impressive project of the Angkor Khmer empire. He was also the emperor who changed the official religion of the empire from Hinduism to Buddhism. I therefore was surprised, in the context of the relationship between Shiva and Avalaokitesvara to see only a passing reference in the article to the relationship between the carved faces of Bayon (216 faces! which are of Avaloketesvara but are said to be modelled physically on Jayavarman). Here is the reference:
"In Theravada, Lokeśvara, "the lord, ruler or sovereign beholder of the world", name of a Buddha; probably a development of the idea of Brahmā, Vishnu or Śiva as lokanātha, "lord of worlds". In Indo-China especially it refers to Avalokiteśvara, whose image or face, in masculine form, is frequently seen, e.g., at Angkor"
Given the importance of Angkor as a historical site, and the extent of public interest, I would be grateful if an expert in this field could develop this reference further in order to provide a discussion of the issues involved in this crucial concept behind the design of the massive Angkor Thom site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lornshillht ( talk • contribs) 13:32, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I've noticed that only the Wade-Giles version of transliteration of the Chinese name is used. What is the Pinyin form with the tone markers?
124.61.6.120 ( talk) 06:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I thought this may be worth a mention. Avalokitesvara is an import figure in Wayism. Wayists believe that Avalokitesvara is somewhat of a celestial Christ figure. They believe that Avalokitesvara appeared on the scene in the 1st century at a time that corresponds to that which Jesus described when his so-called 2nd coming would occur (within a generation of the crucifixion, after the calamities of the fall of Jerusalem and banishment of Jews from the city). Wayists indicate to corresponding expectations of what the followers of Jesus' Way (not Christianity) understood regarding the reason for, and the 'person' of the glorified Jesus and Avalokitesvara. In short, they believe the spirit who incarnated as Jesus was glorified and returned as Avalokitesvara, and therefore they worship the Bodhisattva as the Lord of Compassion in most of its various forms known to the Mahayana tradition. Ref: http://wayism.wikispaces.com/Avalokite%C5%9Bvara http://www.amazon.com/Wayism-Harmonious-Existence-Worldview-Lifestyle/dp/0987680013/ref=tmm_pap_title_0
If you agree, I can research it more and write a brief mention for this page CuriousJon 17:17, 2 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan59 ( talk • contribs)
The story of Buddha Amithaba's task to Chenrezig is findable in a commentary by Lodro Tulku. -- Kt66 22:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
This section, "Tibetan Buddhist beliefs concerning Chenrezig", is completely superficial, written from an external naive perspective. Among Tibetans politics is perceived rightly as politics, just as it is in every other society. I believe this treatment would be, at best, amusing, and is most likely insulting. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
67.58.138.196 (
talk) 07:11, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Should someone make a reference to the fact that this is also "Kanon" in Japanese ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.134.32.198 ( talk) 03:51, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Jainraising, Chenrezig and the name Chanrai, used today by many persons of Indian culture, sound as the same, and Chanrai may correspond to an spirit invoked to have good luck, some sources point Chanrai is the name of the Smiling Big Man considered a Buddha image. Local or more precise sources needed and welcome.-- Jgrosay ( talk) 01:10, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
How do you pronounce Avalokitesvara, especially which syllables are stressed? Thank you 85.124.176.91 15:22, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
I can answer this question. I am originally from Sri Lanka. They speak Mixed Singhala meaning pure Singhala plus Sanskrit. This is a compound word of avalokita+izvara. Lookup these words at the Sanskrit dictionary - University of Cologne. The meaning becomes obvious. In Sanskrit, the beginning a is as u in cut. All other a letters are mute inside a morpheme, unless they are long a vowels. e and o are always long in Sanskrit. The i in Isvara is long (indicated by the capital - Harvard-Kyoto scheme). When the two words join, they undergo Sandhi. i+I -> e (long as said before). Recap: All a's are mute except the first one. The e is like a in way. o is just as in low. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahangama ( talk • contribs) 18:56, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
If anyone's watching this board, I too want to know what syllables are accented. Is it like some other old languages, where nobody knows and there isn't a definitive pronunciation? -- Munge 05:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
The most accented syllable is teś (as in John Tesh); the first A is also stressed. Roughly: AH-va-lo-kee-TESH-va-ra. -- The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 13:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
This explanation is right except the 'r' is simply the common sound of r in English in similar locations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahangama ( talk • contribs) 19:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
I am an OTRS volunteer. Someone recently wrote to OTRS complaining that the beginning of the article: :Avalokiteśvara (Sanskrit: अवलोकितेश्वर lit. "Lord who looks down") might imply disrespect, because it is an expression of disdain in English to "look down" on someone.
Would "Lord who looks upon" be an accurate enough translation? If so, it would eliminate the double meaning in English for the phrase "looks down". ~ Amatulić ( talk) 18:24, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I think looks down upon is fine, but if changed, perhaps 'looks upon from above' keeps the same divinity, without the implicit condescension. I would think looks down is fine though. Iṣṭa Devata ( talk) 16:25, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
I wonder why the infobox on the right hand side of the article has so much Chinese - and why all those Chinese names come before the Sanskrit and Pali names? This is the English Wikipedia and Avalokiteśvara originated in India not in China — so I would think Sanskrit and Pali names should come before all those Chinese names. And why so many Chinese names? Surely anyone who can read Chinese could refer to the article on Chinese Wikipedia if they want to know all the different Chinese names. For everyone else this is meaningless. Avalokiteśvara also has over 108 names in Sanskrit so should those be listed as well? And of course all those Sanskrit names have Tibetan, Mongolian and Manchu equivalents that could added as well. I see no particularly good reason to give so much prominence to Chinese. Chris Fynn ( talk) 05:24, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
I have yet read or verified a Sanskrit or Tibetan version of the Lotus Sutra, however the Chinese translation of the Lotus Sutra is possibly where the first popularized modern day accounts of Avalokitesvara may have occurred. Of course it does upset me a lot when I edited the Wikipedia page and I saw a infobox profile box named Chinese - I have seen infoboxes about the template Person, why on earth do I need a specific infobox template named Chinese when Shakyamuni Buddha's Wikipedia page is just using a standard Person infobox. My personal grievances is my own problem, still part of it relates with how while the Gautama Buddha was said to have spoken the Mahayana e.g. Lotus Sutra, whether was Avalokiteśvara in effect a mythical supramundane being or a worldly humanitarian manifestation has been further adorned with official Chinese accounts and reports that are rather difficult or even downright impossible going into detail accruing from how the truth system works approximately in Chinese legacy.
I offer and provide a comparable example of another Buddhist bodhisattva being that confuses me as well - the Chinese literature classic of Romance of Three Kingdoms was a romanticized impression of Chinese history, accruing from the classic literature an entire civilization spawned forth its own religious beings like Guan Yu i.e. what came being known as Sangharama Bodhisattva, till value-adds of modern softwares till academic journals. While the attainment of Guan Yu as Sangharama Bodhisattva is widely regarded by the Chinese as acceptable - he was a heroic wartime murderer who embraced Buddhism after he got beheaded, which case the Chinese Buddhist communities awarded him the posthumous title of bodhisattvahood because of his said new found allegiance in a religious cause instead of a military purpose. Regarding the RTK series, when you regard how the Japanese also embraced it developing a Koei game series based on it before propagating it into the West as well, differentiating history and legend becomes a modern day endeavour when there are both historically verified accounts of ancient beings while there are also culturally mooted versions too.
So the thing is historically in India, I have little evidence that Avalokiteśvara may actually exist as a person like Shakyamuni Buddha was officially recorded as. From the manner in which how the Mahayana teachings portray Avalokiteśvara, I do what I can by just replacing the Infobox template with a Person template adding a Buddhism stub, what I would have liked myself is some citation itself about Avalokiteśvara's birth date and place geographically on this planet, if you have the free resources in verifying claims all over the world about said gnosis, that may give others meaning perhaps, still I tried and there's a limit about what I can know as a mundane being. - :) Rongxiang Lin 01:41, 14 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ronggy ( talk • contribs)
Someone has added the tag "Cleanup-rewrite" to this article saying "This article may need to be rewritten entirely to comply with Wikipedia's quality standards. " Please state your reason for adding this tag in the talk page -- or I delete it next time I come back (which may never happen, to be honest:). This article has been rated as B-class, that is "mostly complete and without major problems" -- so it is weird to say it needs to be rewritten completely?!
Lebatsnok ( talk) 13:00, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
This is not about being Asian or Westerner, this is about backing up your claims. If you say the article requires a complete rewrite, then the least that can be expected is that you say why. The most that can be expected is that you make the article better, by doing the revisions that you say should be done. I came here in search of information and saw the tag which, apparently, casts doubt on everything that is said in the whole article. I just do not think this is fair. Have a good day :) Lebatsnok ( talk) 11:55, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Avalokiteśvara = Guan Yin -- WonYong Talk 23:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
The word Iśvara clearly appears before the seventh century as it appears multiple times in the Yoga Sutras which are generally dated some time around 200 b.c.e.. Further more I believe Iśvara and Aiswarya both occur in Sankhya treatises that predate Patañjali. This suggests that usage of the word Iśvara is in fact older than the first Mahayana Sutras, no? Iṣṭa Devata ( talk) 20:36, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
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I think deity is a very inapropriate term. Worship may also be misinterpreted. Dustin Asby 08:23, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In the Lotus Sutra, Avalokitesvara refers to himself as a mahāsattva which is a clear and distinct identity which is attained through great difficulty. Deity is NOT a term which should be applied. The Lotus Sutra was first introduced at the Fourth Buddhist Council in Kashmir. In the Asian tradition, Avalokitesvara has morphed into Guanjin, who is revered as a Goddess. However, she must remain a mahāsattva since this is what she/he first referred to herself as. VaniNY ( talk) 09:18, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Under the header "Origin", it says Avalokiteshvara made a great vow to postpone his/her nirvana until all sentient beings are freed from suffering. Is there a source for this claim? I do not seem to find anything like this in the princeton dictionary, nor in Paul Williams description of Avalokiteshvara in "mahayana buddhism: the doctrinal foundations". Also, if this is the case, it would strongly contradict the theory that Avalokiteshvara would be the successor to Amitabha Buddha in Sukhavati. I don't remember how common that theory is though. -- Skottniss ( talk) 17:44, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
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Guanyin is the name Avalokitesvara is called throughout the Sinosphere (i.e. China, Taiwan, Macau, Hong Kong and maybe Singapore) and in its sino-xenic pronunciation in Japan, Korea and Vietnam. By excluding Guanyin, which by the way refers to the same bodhisattva worshipped in Tibet and Mongolia (the only other major areas where Avalokitesvara is widely worshipped today) as well as its unique manifestations originating in China, you have excluded the practices of the vast majority of Buddhist practitioners who worship and honor and emulate him/her. Also the etymology of Avalokitesvara is reversed; it should be corrected and the history of its naming in China (and hence Japan, Korea and Vietnam) is all garbled. And this makes this a 'B' rated article? Encyclopedic information is descriptive as well as canonical. There are native accretions in Tibetan forms of Avalokitesvara as well not to be found in any canonical source. The Sri Lankan "Natha" is included in this article but not Guanyin; Natha is not even consider a bodhisattva anymore in Sri Lanka; it is consider a deva; perhaps originally derived from Avalokitesvara but no longer even a bodhisattva. What do you think? Hanbud ( talk) 19:34, 29 April 2018 (UTC) Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia can be added to the list of countries where Guanyin (esp. the Chinese forms) are worshipped esp. by their ethnic Chinese populations. Nepal can be added to the list where worship is similar to Tibet and Mongolia. "Natha" can be seen as a deva form emanation of Avalokitesvara; but the Sri Lankans do not see it this way. They either see him as a deva or Maitreya (Theravadan apologists). Guanyin in the Chinese forms are seen as a bodhisattva although she has been adopted by Daoism as one of their deities. Hence the confusion with 'goddess' which is especially promoted in the West. In China and other sinosphere countries virtually everyone accepts that the Chinese form of Guanyin is a bodhisattva (i.e took vows, etc.,) Her exclusion in this article is incomprehensible esp. when one considers by conservative estimates at least 540 million people worship her compare to perhaps 20 million for the other forms. On a descriptive basis, this is misinformation. Hanbud ( talk) 10:20, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
After or among the Tibetan Paragraph?; open to suggestions and/or brutal editing. Nhrenton 12:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
The article said: "In the Theravada tradition of Southeast Asia, Avalokiteśvara is known as Lokeśvara (Lord of the World)." I took this out, since I don't think Avalokiteśvara is known in Theravada at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong.— Nat Krause( Talk!) 06:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
The Mongolian name of Migjid Janraisig means "the Lord Who Looks in Every Direction;" Nidü-ber üjegci means "He Who Looks with the Eyes." While the worship of Avalokitesvara was repressed during Communist rule under the Stalinist rule of Horloogyin Choybalsan, the deity has enjoyed a renaissance since the 1990s. The dominant trend within Mongolian Buddhism is the Tibetan Gelupga sect; as a result, Mongolians hold the Dalai Lama as Avalokitesvara's earthly manifestation. A 26.5 metre statue of the deity was rebuilt in 1996 at the Gandantegchinlen Khiid Monastery, where an active monastic community has blossomed.
(There is an article about Mongolian Buddhism on the Gendantegchinlen Khiid Monastery article, but I find it heavy going--and not very specific re Avalokitesvra. You might be able to read it more profitably.) Nhrenton 14:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Quick question here! Am I correct in thinking that Avalokiteshvara is the Sanskrit name and Chenrezig is the Tibetan name? I know that the Sanskrit pronunciation of Om Mani Padma Hum is described as 'the mantra of Avalokiteshvara' whereas the Tibetan pronunciation Om Mani Peme Hung is described as 'the mantra of Chenrezig'.
Sorry. Didn't read it properly! (the lay out of the page makes it easy to miss the 'in Tibetan' bit) But maybe it should be right at the start - Avalokiteśvara or Avalokiteshvar, अवलोकितेश्वर (Sanskrit, lit. "Lord who looks down") (Tibetan: Chenrezig). Or maybe not?
Is Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara's name pronounced [ˌa.ˈval.ɔ.kit.eʃ.ˈva.ɹa], or is it a different pronunciation? ionas68224| talk| contribs| email 22:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Oppose merge. While they are considered to be the same, they are culturally quite different. A combined article could not go into the depth that separate articles could. Cundi 14:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose. The articles were originally the same, but were split off in 2004 (see [1]) and, IMHO, quite successfully. Jpatokal 16:17, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose. The figure of Guan Yin (Quan Am in Vietnam) requires separate treatment. Many people in Vietnam who are very familiar with Quan Am have never heard of Avalokiteshvara. There is no doubt an historical connection, but Quan Am is now a separate figure. Merging these two articles would be like merging the article on the French language with the article on Latin, on the theory that historically French is an offshoot of Latin. DoktorMax 06:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Comment. I am getting rid of the merge box. There are 3 opposes and no reason for merges. Benjwong 01:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I am not a Buddhist nor Chinese speaker nor a Japanese speaker. I could not understand some statements due to the use of Japanese or Chinese words without the English IAST with them. Few examples:
Lokeśvara-rāja ( 盧迦委斯諦, lit. 'King of world sovereignty') is another epithet of Avalokiteśvara. The Chinese interpretation of Lokeśvara-rāja 世自在王 is 'World Sovereign King'. īśvara 自在 n. lord, adj. free; unrestrained; unrestricted; liberated. In Chinese Dharma-character school 法相宗, 自在 vb. means 主宰 to dominate; to dictate; to govern; to predominate; to rule or to reign.
Please write which language it is for words like 盧迦委斯諦,自在. Write English IAST words for 法相宗, 自在. It would be appreciated if written in this format: e.g Avalokiteśvara or Avalokiteshvar, (Sanskrit: अवलोकितेश्वर , lit. "Lord who looks down") ie Word in English (Language: in local script , lit. meaning).
Avalokiteśvara is known as Guan Yin ( 觀音)
Which language:觀音????
Six forms of Avalokiteśvara in Mahayana (defined by Tian-tai, terrace) 天臺六觀音: 1. 大悲觀音great compassion, 2. 大慈觀音great loving-kindness, 3. 獅子無畏觀音lion-courage, 4. 大光普照觀音universal light, 5. 天人丈夫觀音leader amongst gods and men, 6. 大梵深遠觀音, 大梵至聖觀音 the great omnipresent Brahma
Meaning given but the terms not given in English, same applies to the Chinese column in Manifestations table and Vajrayana para:
Seven forms of Avalokiteśvara in esoteric Buddhism 密教七觀音: 1. 不空羅索觀音not empty (or unerring) net, or lasso. Amoghapāśa. 2. 千手千眼面觀音1000-hand and 1000-eye, vara-sahasrabhuja-locana/Sahasrabhujasahasranetra, 3. 馬頭觀音horseheaded, Hayagriva, 4. 十一面觀音11-faced, Ekadasamukha, 5. 准提觀音 Cundi, 6. 如意輪觀音wheel of sovereign power, Cintamani-cakra; 7. 聖觀音, 正觀音holy one, 聖觀自在arya Lokiteśvara, the Holy sovereign beholder of the world (loka), a translation of īśvara, means ‘ruler’ or ‘sovereign’.
I request the editors to address these concerns.-- Redtigerxyz 06:50, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know whether or not it's right, but I changed the infobox to conform with its template. Presumably this was an older form of the infobox (I couldn't find the revision in question), but at some point it got changed and thereby broken, perhaps because that form of the name is Nepali and not Sanskrit? I'm guessing and don't know the languages, but any such change (incorporating another language) would need to be made in parallel in the Bodhisattva Infobox template -- which, incidentally, uses Avalokiteśvara as an example of its usage. / Ninly ( talk) 20:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
According to LGBT themes in mythology, this figure is somehow LGBT-related. Does anyone know how, even if it is disputed? If not, i've tagged it for removal Yob Mod 13:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I can get this name in Cyrillic if desired; how shall that be handled in the name box? English AND Cyrillic? Also, Migjid Janraisig seems to be the more popular (perhaps more nationalistically Mongolian?) name for Avaloskitevara. Should it perhaps be listed first in the first paragraph? Furthermore--doea anyone have suggestions for how to handle the name Migjid Janraisig in stories withina purely Mongolian context. As time permits, I shall try to introduce something on the renaissance of this deity in Mongolia. Nhrenton 13:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Nat. Here the Cyrillic: Мигжид Жанрайсиг .Mind you, there's also classical Mongolian horizontal script (which is perhaps more theologically correct), but it's a tricky font issue. I'm off to Asia until the new year; I'm afraid I'll only be able to give you a poor effort (being an Anglican/Episcopalian); I'll put it here--if you think it'll do as a start, feel free to add it in your recommended space. I'm guessing about some of the names. I fear it gets off topic out of ignorance; about all I could divine from it was that Mongolians tend to be Gelupga.
By the way--Is that Xongsim name a Chinese name from Inner Mongolia?
the following books...
^^^^
FYI
-- 124.78.226.174 ( talk) 11:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
It should now be apparent that the original name is "Avalokitasvara", and was for around 600 years during the bulk of development of Mahayana Buddhism in India. "Avalokiteśvara" is a different modification of this that changes the meaning and implications of the bodhisattva's characteristics. For example, in many Mahayana sutras, "Avalokitasvara" is associated with sound and meditation methods involving listening to sounds. These would have all been "Avalokitasvara" in the original Sanskrit (predating 7th century). In the Chinese translations, they were basically all "Guanshiyin" or "Guanyin" (before Xuanzang's time) which is again an exact translation of "Avalokitasvara". Although an argument for keeping "Avalokiteśvara" could be made for purposes of its use in Tibetan Buddhism (which inherited the later Sanskrit terms for some uses in mantras), in fact "Chenrezig" is more widely attested in Tibet. Furthermore, the main mantra associated with Avalokitasvara in Tibet, has no direct reference to a name (om manipadme hum), so this does not cause a conflict. That leaves the West as the only place that uses "Avalokiteśvara" as a general purpose name, and we now know that the name does not apply before the 7th century when the overwhelming majority of Mahayana texts were authored. For these reasons, I believe the page and its contents should use "Avalokitasvara" as the more correct and accurate general term. A redirect from Avalokiteśvara and its alternate romanizations would be automatic. Tengu800 ( talk) 12:30, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
I am not a specialist in this area at all, but stumbled into this through visiting the temples at Angkor. The stunning Bayon temple, and the gate entrances to Angkor Thom, were all created under the reign of Jayavarman VII, whose military, diplomatic and imperial success is represented in this most impressive project of the Angkor Khmer empire. He was also the emperor who changed the official religion of the empire from Hinduism to Buddhism. I therefore was surprised, in the context of the relationship between Shiva and Avalaokitesvara to see only a passing reference in the article to the relationship between the carved faces of Bayon (216 faces! which are of Avaloketesvara but are said to be modelled physically on Jayavarman). Here is the reference:
"In Theravada, Lokeśvara, "the lord, ruler or sovereign beholder of the world", name of a Buddha; probably a development of the idea of Brahmā, Vishnu or Śiva as lokanātha, "lord of worlds". In Indo-China especially it refers to Avalokiteśvara, whose image or face, in masculine form, is frequently seen, e.g., at Angkor"
Given the importance of Angkor as a historical site, and the extent of public interest, I would be grateful if an expert in this field could develop this reference further in order to provide a discussion of the issues involved in this crucial concept behind the design of the massive Angkor Thom site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lornshillht ( talk • contribs) 13:32, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I've noticed that only the Wade-Giles version of transliteration of the Chinese name is used. What is the Pinyin form with the tone markers?
124.61.6.120 ( talk) 06:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I thought this may be worth a mention. Avalokitesvara is an import figure in Wayism. Wayists believe that Avalokitesvara is somewhat of a celestial Christ figure. They believe that Avalokitesvara appeared on the scene in the 1st century at a time that corresponds to that which Jesus described when his so-called 2nd coming would occur (within a generation of the crucifixion, after the calamities of the fall of Jerusalem and banishment of Jews from the city). Wayists indicate to corresponding expectations of what the followers of Jesus' Way (not Christianity) understood regarding the reason for, and the 'person' of the glorified Jesus and Avalokitesvara. In short, they believe the spirit who incarnated as Jesus was glorified and returned as Avalokitesvara, and therefore they worship the Bodhisattva as the Lord of Compassion in most of its various forms known to the Mahayana tradition. Ref: http://wayism.wikispaces.com/Avalokite%C5%9Bvara http://www.amazon.com/Wayism-Harmonious-Existence-Worldview-Lifestyle/dp/0987680013/ref=tmm_pap_title_0
If you agree, I can research it more and write a brief mention for this page CuriousJon 17:17, 2 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan59 ( talk • contribs)
The story of Buddha Amithaba's task to Chenrezig is findable in a commentary by Lodro Tulku. -- Kt66 22:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
This section, "Tibetan Buddhist beliefs concerning Chenrezig", is completely superficial, written from an external naive perspective. Among Tibetans politics is perceived rightly as politics, just as it is in every other society. I believe this treatment would be, at best, amusing, and is most likely insulting. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
67.58.138.196 (
talk) 07:11, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Should someone make a reference to the fact that this is also "Kanon" in Japanese ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.134.32.198 ( talk) 03:51, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Jainraising, Chenrezig and the name Chanrai, used today by many persons of Indian culture, sound as the same, and Chanrai may correspond to an spirit invoked to have good luck, some sources point Chanrai is the name of the Smiling Big Man considered a Buddha image. Local or more precise sources needed and welcome.-- Jgrosay ( talk) 01:10, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
How do you pronounce Avalokitesvara, especially which syllables are stressed? Thank you 85.124.176.91 15:22, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
I can answer this question. I am originally from Sri Lanka. They speak Mixed Singhala meaning pure Singhala plus Sanskrit. This is a compound word of avalokita+izvara. Lookup these words at the Sanskrit dictionary - University of Cologne. The meaning becomes obvious. In Sanskrit, the beginning a is as u in cut. All other a letters are mute inside a morpheme, unless they are long a vowels. e and o are always long in Sanskrit. The i in Isvara is long (indicated by the capital - Harvard-Kyoto scheme). When the two words join, they undergo Sandhi. i+I -> e (long as said before). Recap: All a's are mute except the first one. The e is like a in way. o is just as in low. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahangama ( talk • contribs) 18:56, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
If anyone's watching this board, I too want to know what syllables are accented. Is it like some other old languages, where nobody knows and there isn't a definitive pronunciation? -- Munge 05:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
The most accented syllable is teś (as in John Tesh); the first A is also stressed. Roughly: AH-va-lo-kee-TESH-va-ra. -- The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 13:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
This explanation is right except the 'r' is simply the common sound of r in English in similar locations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahangama ( talk • contribs) 19:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
I am an OTRS volunteer. Someone recently wrote to OTRS complaining that the beginning of the article: :Avalokiteśvara (Sanskrit: अवलोकितेश्वर lit. "Lord who looks down") might imply disrespect, because it is an expression of disdain in English to "look down" on someone.
Would "Lord who looks upon" be an accurate enough translation? If so, it would eliminate the double meaning in English for the phrase "looks down". ~ Amatulić ( talk) 18:24, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I think looks down upon is fine, but if changed, perhaps 'looks upon from above' keeps the same divinity, without the implicit condescension. I would think looks down is fine though. Iṣṭa Devata ( talk) 16:25, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
I wonder why the infobox on the right hand side of the article has so much Chinese - and why all those Chinese names come before the Sanskrit and Pali names? This is the English Wikipedia and Avalokiteśvara originated in India not in China — so I would think Sanskrit and Pali names should come before all those Chinese names. And why so many Chinese names? Surely anyone who can read Chinese could refer to the article on Chinese Wikipedia if they want to know all the different Chinese names. For everyone else this is meaningless. Avalokiteśvara also has over 108 names in Sanskrit so should those be listed as well? And of course all those Sanskrit names have Tibetan, Mongolian and Manchu equivalents that could added as well. I see no particularly good reason to give so much prominence to Chinese. Chris Fynn ( talk) 05:24, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
I have yet read or verified a Sanskrit or Tibetan version of the Lotus Sutra, however the Chinese translation of the Lotus Sutra is possibly where the first popularized modern day accounts of Avalokitesvara may have occurred. Of course it does upset me a lot when I edited the Wikipedia page and I saw a infobox profile box named Chinese - I have seen infoboxes about the template Person, why on earth do I need a specific infobox template named Chinese when Shakyamuni Buddha's Wikipedia page is just using a standard Person infobox. My personal grievances is my own problem, still part of it relates with how while the Gautama Buddha was said to have spoken the Mahayana e.g. Lotus Sutra, whether was Avalokiteśvara in effect a mythical supramundane being or a worldly humanitarian manifestation has been further adorned with official Chinese accounts and reports that are rather difficult or even downright impossible going into detail accruing from how the truth system works approximately in Chinese legacy.
I offer and provide a comparable example of another Buddhist bodhisattva being that confuses me as well - the Chinese literature classic of Romance of Three Kingdoms was a romanticized impression of Chinese history, accruing from the classic literature an entire civilization spawned forth its own religious beings like Guan Yu i.e. what came being known as Sangharama Bodhisattva, till value-adds of modern softwares till academic journals. While the attainment of Guan Yu as Sangharama Bodhisattva is widely regarded by the Chinese as acceptable - he was a heroic wartime murderer who embraced Buddhism after he got beheaded, which case the Chinese Buddhist communities awarded him the posthumous title of bodhisattvahood because of his said new found allegiance in a religious cause instead of a military purpose. Regarding the RTK series, when you regard how the Japanese also embraced it developing a Koei game series based on it before propagating it into the West as well, differentiating history and legend becomes a modern day endeavour when there are both historically verified accounts of ancient beings while there are also culturally mooted versions too.
So the thing is historically in India, I have little evidence that Avalokiteśvara may actually exist as a person like Shakyamuni Buddha was officially recorded as. From the manner in which how the Mahayana teachings portray Avalokiteśvara, I do what I can by just replacing the Infobox template with a Person template adding a Buddhism stub, what I would have liked myself is some citation itself about Avalokiteśvara's birth date and place geographically on this planet, if you have the free resources in verifying claims all over the world about said gnosis, that may give others meaning perhaps, still I tried and there's a limit about what I can know as a mundane being. - :) Rongxiang Lin 01:41, 14 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ronggy ( talk • contribs)
Someone has added the tag "Cleanup-rewrite" to this article saying "This article may need to be rewritten entirely to comply with Wikipedia's quality standards. " Please state your reason for adding this tag in the talk page -- or I delete it next time I come back (which may never happen, to be honest:). This article has been rated as B-class, that is "mostly complete and without major problems" -- so it is weird to say it needs to be rewritten completely?!
Lebatsnok ( talk) 13:00, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
This is not about being Asian or Westerner, this is about backing up your claims. If you say the article requires a complete rewrite, then the least that can be expected is that you say why. The most that can be expected is that you make the article better, by doing the revisions that you say should be done. I came here in search of information and saw the tag which, apparently, casts doubt on everything that is said in the whole article. I just do not think this is fair. Have a good day :) Lebatsnok ( talk) 11:55, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Avalokiteśvara = Guan Yin -- WonYong Talk 23:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
The word Iśvara clearly appears before the seventh century as it appears multiple times in the Yoga Sutras which are generally dated some time around 200 b.c.e.. Further more I believe Iśvara and Aiswarya both occur in Sankhya treatises that predate Patañjali. This suggests that usage of the word Iśvara is in fact older than the first Mahayana Sutras, no? Iṣṭa Devata ( talk) 20:36, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
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I think deity is a very inapropriate term. Worship may also be misinterpreted. Dustin Asby 08:23, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In the Lotus Sutra, Avalokitesvara refers to himself as a mahāsattva which is a clear and distinct identity which is attained through great difficulty. Deity is NOT a term which should be applied. The Lotus Sutra was first introduced at the Fourth Buddhist Council in Kashmir. In the Asian tradition, Avalokitesvara has morphed into Guanjin, who is revered as a Goddess. However, she must remain a mahāsattva since this is what she/he first referred to herself as. VaniNY ( talk) 09:18, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Under the header "Origin", it says Avalokiteshvara made a great vow to postpone his/her nirvana until all sentient beings are freed from suffering. Is there a source for this claim? I do not seem to find anything like this in the princeton dictionary, nor in Paul Williams description of Avalokiteshvara in "mahayana buddhism: the doctrinal foundations". Also, if this is the case, it would strongly contradict the theory that Avalokiteshvara would be the successor to Amitabha Buddha in Sukhavati. I don't remember how common that theory is though. -- Skottniss ( talk) 17:44, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
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Guanyin is the name Avalokitesvara is called throughout the Sinosphere (i.e. China, Taiwan, Macau, Hong Kong and maybe Singapore) and in its sino-xenic pronunciation in Japan, Korea and Vietnam. By excluding Guanyin, which by the way refers to the same bodhisattva worshipped in Tibet and Mongolia (the only other major areas where Avalokitesvara is widely worshipped today) as well as its unique manifestations originating in China, you have excluded the practices of the vast majority of Buddhist practitioners who worship and honor and emulate him/her. Also the etymology of Avalokitesvara is reversed; it should be corrected and the history of its naming in China (and hence Japan, Korea and Vietnam) is all garbled. And this makes this a 'B' rated article? Encyclopedic information is descriptive as well as canonical. There are native accretions in Tibetan forms of Avalokitesvara as well not to be found in any canonical source. The Sri Lankan "Natha" is included in this article but not Guanyin; Natha is not even consider a bodhisattva anymore in Sri Lanka; it is consider a deva; perhaps originally derived from Avalokitesvara but no longer even a bodhisattva. What do you think? Hanbud ( talk) 19:34, 29 April 2018 (UTC) Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia can be added to the list of countries where Guanyin (esp. the Chinese forms) are worshipped esp. by their ethnic Chinese populations. Nepal can be added to the list where worship is similar to Tibet and Mongolia. "Natha" can be seen as a deva form emanation of Avalokitesvara; but the Sri Lankans do not see it this way. They either see him as a deva or Maitreya (Theravadan apologists). Guanyin in the Chinese forms are seen as a bodhisattva although she has been adopted by Daoism as one of their deities. Hence the confusion with 'goddess' which is especially promoted in the West. In China and other sinosphere countries virtually everyone accepts that the Chinese form of Guanyin is a bodhisattva (i.e took vows, etc.,) Her exclusion in this article is incomprehensible esp. when one considers by conservative estimates at least 540 million people worship her compare to perhaps 20 million for the other forms. On a descriptive basis, this is misinformation. Hanbud ( talk) 10:20, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
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