This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
The "partial control" on the map is messy and not based on properly sourced information regarding where the SAA are present in northeastern Syria. I would also argue that even if the SAA was consistently in partial military control of all the areas that are "striped" - would it be necessary to show this on this map since this map details the civil autonomous administration and its administrative divisions? The deal has according to the SDF [1] been a deal that is exclusively military in nature, with no changes in the region's civil administration. The US-led coalition's presence in the Hasakah and Deir ez-Zor governorates is also not shown as a separate 50/50 paint on the map, even though this also represents a military deal with the SDF, not a civil administration run partially by the US-led coalition in those areas. AntonSamuel ( talk) 22:27, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I've cleared the 50/50 paint for now because of the visual difficulty and for deviation from the main purpose of this map - which is to display the various subregions of the civilian administration of the de facto autonomous region, not military control agreements with no known civilian aspect as of date. If areas with an SAA/Russian or a US presence need to be highlighted in some manner, please discuss this here. Further sources are needed apart from the Russian military maps such as those that were provided as sources for the modified map - they cannot be considered to be neutral or factually accurate without additional verification. AntonSamuel ( talk) 00:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I wonder if it's time for separate Rojava and AANES articles. Rojava is a very specific ethnic term, isn't officially used by the AANES, and is often resented by non-Kurds. I realise it's the most common shorthand for the AANES in English-language references, but it's possible that the Kurds are no longer a plurality in the region, let alone a majority. What do people think? Konli17 ( talk) 12:01, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Not as lively discussion as last time, despite the mass ping. Still, it is clear there has been a shift in consensus toward rename. The issue of COMMONNAME remains elusive here. Again, one of the reason for supporting the rename also involved contrasting Rojava with the official conventional long form and its usage. A well thought out, but singular opposition did result in some discussion, but the overall direction of the request is clear toward moving. Finally, note that while Rojava automatically redirects here now, that is only procedural. It may be redirected elsewhere. It may even be re-authored as a separate article. So, that is left to the discretion of contributors. El_C 10:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Rojava →
Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria – Support move - This article is largely about the Administration in North and East Syria, consisting of many areas Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians and other minorities live in stretching over large areas of Syria. "Rojava" is something different, it is a name kurds use for areas in north Syria they live in. This administrations own official name for themselves is the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. We should therefor change the name of this article to that.
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk) 13:12, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
--
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
05:55, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
Administrator note as the admin who has closed the last move request as no consensus to move, another proper move request is permitted. But this is not it. Please follow the documentation to launch a move request for this effort to be deemed valid. Regardless of its outcome, after it is concluded, a lengthy move moratorium may be imposed (for a duration of, say, a year). El_C 11:56, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم ( talk) 05:33, 1 July 2020 (UTC)With respect to Northeast Syria, last year the Kurdish YPG forces attempted to impose Kurdish textbooks and Kurdish language courses on Aramean schools in Qamishli, which they have chosen as the capital of a self-declared federal region called ‘Rojava’ – a name which has no historical basis.
Rojava needs new own article and it is highly POV. Sometimes we not do COMMONNAME if it has NPOV issues see this relevant discussion [14] Shadow4dark ( talk) 20:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
The lede states: "The supporters of the region's administration state that it is an officially secular polity". This seems a strange way to put this; I've never heard of it accused of being non-secular. Is there a reason for this wording?
Konli17 (
talk)
19:58, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
There is currently an open discussion here regarding changing the name of Rojava conflict. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم ( talk) 23:38, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
@
Supreme Deliciousness: Please revert your revert. The content عمرو بن كلثوم added is not supported by the sources. The first sentence is literally completely false: "The steppe area that makes up most of the area under PYD control in 2020 has historically been the domain of nomad and sedentary Arabs." is not supported by Fevret who is only talking about areas in Al-Hasakah Governorate, not the rest of the area covered by the AANES. The gigantic quote is also not helpful at all, and does not belong into this article. Put it into some other article like Kurds in Syria or Demographics of Syria, where these things can be discussed in detail.
The old version of this article was stable and generally agreed upon. Lets keep it that way.
Applodion (
talk)
09:05, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Applodion, "The area is historically been highly diverse" is not sourced to say the least. I will add a British ethnographic map to show the demographic history. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم ( talk) 15:22, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
The administration responded to the Human Rights Watch Report - see [1].
Shouldn't this be included? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:1D07:3500:6095:67CD:90:9C72 ( talk) 17:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
References
@ Applodion: So one the section on Kurdification, the only example was use of Kurdish names in majority Kurdish cities so I re-added the accuse section as up to 50% of the SDF is non-Kurdish. The inability of other Kurdish parties are unable to operate however it also seems as though as a form of authoritarianism, however it does seem slightly minor viewpoint within the grand schemes of things as does not seem to be the widely accepted scholarly consensus. Authoritarianism is extremely minor in the AANES, working with foreign governments in the region. Especially when compared to organizations such as SNA or the SAA, HTS, even in the HTS article we put "accused" as it although clearly fits in the definition, much certainly more then in the AANES. There is not enough, for a claim on Kurdification we need absolute consensus which isn't present from sources. Des Vallee ( talk) 10:49, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
This
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Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the third paragraph there is a typo. It says ANNES when AANES is intended. Hevalkinch ( talk) 08:02, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
This
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4th paragraph, "through a system of local councils in minority, cultural and religious repersentation": change 'repersentation' to 'representation' GenericUsername3 ( talk) 23:55, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
The current into reads more like a propaganda leaflet extolling the virtues of Rojava than a neutral encyclopedia article. It provides little context about the region/government, repeats all its supposed virtues over and over and over again, and also actively discredits criticisms. Regardless of whether or not this place is genuinely amazing (for all I know it may well be, I was reading it precisely because I'm ignorant about the topic), it's a shambolic, WP:NPOV-violating lead.
e.g. "AANES has support all over the world for its universal equal democratic, sustainable, autonomous pluralist, equal, and feminist policies" ... "an officially secular polity with direct democratic ambitions based on an anarchistic, feminist, and libertarian socialist ideology promoting decentralization, gender equality, environmental sustainability, social ecology and pluralistic tolerance for religious, cultural and political diversity, and that these values are mirrored in its constitution, society, and politics, stating it to be a model for a federalized Syria as a whole" ... "the AANES has been the most democratic system in Syria, with direct open elections, universal equality, respecting human rights within the region, as well as defense of minority and religious rights" ... region has a new social justice approach was implemented that emphasizes rehabilitation, empowerment and social care over retribution ... bases its policy ambitions to a large extent on democratic libertarian socialist ideology of democratic confederalism and have been described as pursuing a model of economy that blends co-operative and market enterprise, through a system of local councils in minority, cultural and religious representation. The AANES has by far the highest average salaries and standard of living throughout Syria.
Any thoughts on what can be done to clean it up among watchers/regular editors? If not, I'll try and give it a complete overhaul (and take a sweeping axe to the repetitious praise) some time over the next couple of weeks, when I've done more reading. Jr8825 • Talk 19:47, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the Religion section this text appears, with problems noted (here shown numbered 1. and 2.):
Change to:
References
49.177.73.238 ( talk) 08:00, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
I changed 'The AANES has support all over the world for its universal equal...' to 'The AANES has widespread support for its universal equal...' as 'all over the world' seemed unlikely; hardly anything has support 'all over the world'. BlackcurrantTea ( talk) 20:33, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
I am one of the biggest supporters you'll find of the AANES, SDF, the SNC, and the Syriacs/Assyrians, Ezidis, Teyar El-Qemih, ENKS, and CDR who have joined the administration. I have personal connections to some of these orgs and to this part of the world. However, I would warn against taking at face value the pronouncements such as, the system of government under operation in the AANES is "Libertarian socialist federated semi-direct democracy". I can barely stifle a giggle just typing it out. It is not quite Martial Law, but it is not far from it. Even if you were to believe it to be possible to establish a feminist, eco-friendly, LGBT+ friendly "libertarian socialist federated semi-direct democracy" in NE Syria, it certainly couldn't be established under the present conditions. The YPG still follow in the same martial traditions as the PKK and PYD in terms of recruiting minors (separating children from their families, forcibly conscripting them)and monopolizing the use of political and military power where it is most crucial. Thus the inevitable mutual distrust, and unfortunately ingrained rumor-spreading culture, between the various ethnic and religious groups (and not just between Kurds and Arabs and Kurds and Turkmen, but between Assyrians and the YPG, between Ezidis and the YPG, between anti-Ocalan/anti-Marxist Kurdish politicians and the old guard - yes, Ocalan's portrait still adorns many a camp and checkpoint in the AANES). It's a war zone, it's state-building in its infancy, it's rule by the force of arms, it's not, *giggle*, "libertarian socialist federated semi-direct democracy". At least not yet! But, inshallah ;-) TomReagan90 ( talk) 15:23, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
It is clear that the AANES has an ideological connection to Öcalan, but the international classification of the PKK and the AANES are completely different. Internationally Turkey equates AANES politicians with the PKK, NATO, EU and the UN etc. don't do so. Why include a terror classification of the PKK in the lead of the AANES article? Then also, the EU source doesn't even mention the AANES. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 20:59, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
nobody classified AANES as same organization with PKK. its obvious that you are talking about my edits, so i am going to talk about that. I only write the fact that "Rojavans follow Abdullah Öcalan's revolutionary socialist path" which is founder of PKK, recognized as a terrorist organization by European Commission. it is pretty pretty related to AANES/Rojava and important for readers' knowledge. I've showed Rojava Information Center for Öcalan thing and European Commission's file that is shared on official website as recognization. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 00:49, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
AANES does not refer to "Gender Equality" or "Democracy" parts of Abdullah Öcalan, please stop writing false informations. As i wrote in my sentence, AANES' Abdullah Öcalan interest is mainly related on socialist revolutionary ideas. in the mind of AANES, Abdullah Öcalan is really important person. its proof is that there is Abdullah Öcalan posters and pictures in bilboards everywhere in Rojava controlled areas. the relation is absolutely not based on "women rights" and "democracy". BerkBerk68 ( talk) 08:35, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
The sources are referring to "socialist revolutionary ideological influence" by Abdullah Öcalan. Not gender equality or Democracy. He talked like according to my sources they took gender equality and Democracy from Abdullah Öcalan meanwhile the sources were about something else. Did i say that "there is no gender equality on AANES"? BerkBerk68 ( talk) 10:38, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
i did neither mean or say anything, can you show the exact part that i've said that please? Also if AANES is following the path of PKK's ideology, then we ofcourse should write the fact that PKK being designated as a terrorist organization. if some organization followed ideology of Taliban, I'd say its important to write it at its page and if Taliban was not known worldwide, it would be important to point that Taliban is designated as a terrorist organization aswell. Also if you agree the fact that Rojava follows path of Abdullah Öcalan, then why did you delete the first sentence which is exactly saying that? BerkBerk68 ( talk) 10:21, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
I guess "showing the exact part" couldn't be answered, so i am going to pass that. You are saying that "not every presidental Democracy acts like USA" but there is no other example than USA which see George Washington as main teacher just like how no other organization see Muhammad Omar as their ideological teacher other than Taliban. But in terms of Rojava and PKK, unfortunately I couldn't say the same. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 21:45, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure i didn't violate "one revert per day" rule at all. Please check the page history. Also you just showed Pakistani Taliban as an example to another example? So we can say Rojava is "Pakistani Taliban" of PKK? And we are here to discuss "Terrorism" thing, we are discussing. If i ignored you I wouldn't write anything here. I am saying again and again, PKK is recognized as a terrorist organization by many authorities, and Rojava is an organization that have powerful links with Öcalan. A reader who doesn't know anything about these situations just wouldn't care about Öcalan. Its all about informing people with real informations. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 23:47, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
No, I don't? I saw his account before but i don't have any relations. and here is not for discussing it, here is for discussing the page. It is getting really hard to understand your logic, You are talking about neutrality, which is just because 2 sentences I've written meanwhile both of them are correct. Thats right i have violated 1RR once with 3 reverse in one day, but nothing more than it. I am not here to discuss that, I am here to discuss the page so do not wait an answer if you try to continue about talking this. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 07:38, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
As Wikipedia editors, we are obliged to inform the public objectively. Rojava Information Centre is the official media of AANES. Therefore, all claims made up there are applicable for AANES including the Abdullah Ocalan one. Considering this you cannot delete information arbitrarily to put the page in shape you want others to see as. I don’t have any relationship with BerkBerk68. But I believe you have with ParadiseChronicle as I see both of you and Applodion reverting the pages that Turks are keen on when a new piece of information is added. Uhudlu Okçu ( talk) 08:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
I mean huh, you guys are accuser here. I am pretty sure that admins have access to both Uhudlu Okçu's and mine IPs. 94.235.202.250 ( talk) 09:30, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
what is the question on your mind Applodion? I pretty pretty answered. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 10:40, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
I have some degree of expertise in this subject, and I have respect intellectually for what both parties to the argument are trying to achieve. As Applodion plainly states: "the PKK is not the same as the AANES; ergo, any terrorist designation of the PKK does not mean the AANES is designated as terrorist" is undeniable. And no mention of any terrorist designation or even the word terrorism should appear in the lede. Nevertheless, the PYD - which is the backbone of what is now the AANES - was simply the Syrian branch of the PKK, and this ought not to be denied. But it doesn't belong in the lede, as, obviously, the war has dramatically altered the political structures of the Kurdish orgs and their relationship with both the Assad govt and the Turkish govt. (without going into too much detail, it gets very murky with regards to who supported which of the various branches of Ocalan's organization, Wikileaks showed that Turkey gave limited support to PJAK against Iran - and Sunni Jihadists simultaneously - during the Iraq War, while the Turkish state at various times aided the PYD against Assad, while simultaneously killing tens of thousands of Kurdish civilians in trying to get at the comrades, the PKK in SE Turkey). And while the PYD provides most of the political cadres for the AANES, they are not synonymous - there has been much additional input from the KDP, SDF-SDC, the KNC, and more! TomReagan90 ( talk) 15:02, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
"The AANES has by far the highest average salaries and standard of living throughout Syria, with salaries being twice as large as in regime controlled Syria; following the collapse of the Syrian Pound the AANES doubled salaries to maintain inflation, and allow for good wages." Where is the associated evidence or citation for this?
Bryce Springfield ( talk) 04:18, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
The first sentence of the second paragraph of this article is now outdated. The Catalan Parliament has officially recognized AANES.
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/catalan-parliament-recognises-autonomous-syrian-kurdish-administration-in-historic-moment — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThirdAgrarian ( talk • contribs) 15:46, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
I forgot my password so I can’t edit this myself, but upon reading the sources for the paragraph of the war crimes section that says that critical media is banned, I can confidently say that the section is misleading if not altogether incorrect. One of the sources speaks about a general atmosphere of tension and uncertainty, but the same source explicitly states that any censorship is largely self-imposed by the local reporters, and makes no mention of banning (though there is mention of a fear of licenses being revoked, I recommend whoever is monitoring this page to look at the sources themselves, just in case I’m massively misinterpreting, though I’m fairly confident in my understanding). The other source mentions one instance of a banning in 2015, though mentions it specifically as a footnote to a line talking about how the banning was in a specific region and contrasting it with another. It was a source for a statement on disorganization/lack of communication between the two regions because one has a press committee and the other doesn’t, not a general statement saying that banning is a common occurrence. In context it seems more like a bureaucratic mistake than suppression of dissidents.
I’d suggest that the section on a whole have the sources double checked, as the latter one I mentioned is used earlier in it, though I couldn’t see the page of the source when checking it. 108.54.114.216 ( talk) 22:21, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Classical Syriac is not spoken in Rojava, unless they’ve opened a time portal and summoned the citizens of ancient Edessa. The form of Aramaic spoken in Rojava is Assyrian Neo-Aramaic. Just a quick correction! 199.89.180.254 ( talk) 17:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
Isn't Rojava de-facto sovereign/independent? Autonomous would mean, that it still has to adhere to laws of the state it belongs to, but they are not following laws of the syrian government, are they? 130.83.6.86 ( talk) 21:00, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
"Social ecology" in the first sentence of the third paragraph links to the Ecology page instead of the Social Ecology (Bookchin) page. This should be rectified.
TheFauxFoe ( talk) 11:05, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Applodion:, you seem to have accidentally removed info [15] from the article regarding a recent report about child soldiers and Rojava. Could you please add that info back to the article? X-Editor ( talk) 18:37, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under section “External Relations”, the second subsection is called “Kurdish question” which to me sounds disturbingly close to the phrase “Jewish question”, the English form of a euphemism used by Nazi Germany to discuss their genocide of European Jews. The English phrase remains in use by neo-Nazis and white supremacists is English-speaking nations.
I would prefer to see the subsection in question retitled as something like “Kurdish issues” or “Kurdistan issue” to avoid the similarity with a very antisemitic reference to the Holocaust and its horrific purpose. So please CHANGE section “External Relations” second subsection name FROM “Kurdish question” TO “Kurdish issues” or “Kurdistan issue” 64.127.203.128 ( talk) 16:10, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
t
c
16:32, 14 February 2023 (UTC)The introduction states that in the AANES there are "direct open elections" which I don't believe is the case.
Not only elections are frequently postponed but they are largely dominated by the PYD that excludes both the regime's Baath and other (truly) independent parties or KRG-linked movements.
I therefore suggest the removal of "direct open elections". 22Chev22 ( talk) 17:18, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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edit request to
Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove “with further attacks on unarmed fleeing civilians conducted by local Arab militias” from the History section. It seems vandalism, I couldn’t verify it in any of the cited sources nor have read it anywhere before. Chafique ( talk) 20:45, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
The politics section of the article completely fails to actually meaningfully describe the political-adminsitrative system of AANES - how are councils formed, how are elections held, etc. The ideological background is good and all, as is mentioning issues, but, you can't see the issues until the system is actually described. Linking to a wikipedia article about the consitutions (which doesn't describe the structure either) or to the ideology (which may be the basis of the structure, but simply serves as its foundation) is not sufficient. 83.190.80.156 ( talk) 14:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
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Law and security —> human's rights
The region's civil government has been hailed in international media for human rights advancement in particular in the legal system, concerning women's rights, ethnic minority rights, freedom of Speech and Press and for hosting inbound refugees.[279][280][281][282] The political agenda of "trying to break the honor-based religious and tribal rules that confine women" is controversial in conservative quarters of society.[257] Conscription into the Self-Defence Forces (HXP) has been called a human rights violation by those who call the region's institutions illegitimate.[283]
Add "men's rights" between "women's rights, ethnic minority rights", using this link or these sources: [1] [2]. AlmostDeveloper ( talk) 16:26, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
Edit extended-protected}}
template. I find your rationale on their men's rights questionable. Firstly, you appear to believe that men's rights is not good in this region, which is the opposite of "has been hailed". Secondly, conscription is another type of abuse than men's rights and child conscription is another thing entirely. 60% is not enough to say it predominantly conscripts men, especially without a figure on gender balance within the region.
Aaron Liu (
talk)
21:26, 27 November 2023 (UTC)This
edit request to
Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The region's civil government has been hailed in international media for human rights advancement in particular
in the legal system, concerning
women's rights,
men's rights,
ethnic minority rights,
freedom of Speech and Press and for
hosting inbound refugees.
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
AlmostDeveloper (
talk)
09:55, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (AANES) has been renamed to the Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (DAANES) as of 14/12/2023. Can someone kindly update the wikipedia page to reflect this update? Here is a couple sources to support the name change:
-Kurdistan 24 : https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/story/33441-New-administration-name-adopted-for-local-administration-in-northeast-Syria
-Arabic source: https://aawsat.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B4%D8%B1%D9%82-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A/4726676-%C2%AB%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B0%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%8A%D8%A9%C2%BB-%D8%B4%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%B4%D8%B1%D9%82-%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D8%AA%D8%B9%D8%AF%D9%91%D9%84-%D8%AA%D8%B3%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7-%D9%88%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%AD%D8%AF-%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B7%D9%82%D9%87%D8%A7-%D9%81%D9%8A AntnSV ( talk) 03:12, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
In the second paragraph, it's also worth mentioning that Rojava is recognized by the Kurdistan Regional Government, as outlined in the provided source: https://legislation.krd/law-detail/?id=4714 Kurdian ( talk) 16:55, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
meredith
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Sheppard
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).In July 2018, SDF declared an end to using child soldiers and released [all the used children - ] 56 underage boys to their families in December 2018.
Cases of violations relating to sexual violence remained significantly underreported, in particular when perpetrated against boys...
The United Nations verified the recruitment and use of 45 boys and 1 girl, with some of the children recruited as young as 8, who were used for combat, at checkpoints, to plant improvised explosive devices, to carry out suicide attacks or other violations, or for sexual exploitation.
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
The "partial control" on the map is messy and not based on properly sourced information regarding where the SAA are present in northeastern Syria. I would also argue that even if the SAA was consistently in partial military control of all the areas that are "striped" - would it be necessary to show this on this map since this map details the civil autonomous administration and its administrative divisions? The deal has according to the SDF [1] been a deal that is exclusively military in nature, with no changes in the region's civil administration. The US-led coalition's presence in the Hasakah and Deir ez-Zor governorates is also not shown as a separate 50/50 paint on the map, even though this also represents a military deal with the SDF, not a civil administration run partially by the US-led coalition in those areas. AntonSamuel ( talk) 22:27, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I've cleared the 50/50 paint for now because of the visual difficulty and for deviation from the main purpose of this map - which is to display the various subregions of the civilian administration of the de facto autonomous region, not military control agreements with no known civilian aspect as of date. If areas with an SAA/Russian or a US presence need to be highlighted in some manner, please discuss this here. Further sources are needed apart from the Russian military maps such as those that were provided as sources for the modified map - they cannot be considered to be neutral or factually accurate without additional verification. AntonSamuel ( talk) 00:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I wonder if it's time for separate Rojava and AANES articles. Rojava is a very specific ethnic term, isn't officially used by the AANES, and is often resented by non-Kurds. I realise it's the most common shorthand for the AANES in English-language references, but it's possible that the Kurds are no longer a plurality in the region, let alone a majority. What do people think? Konli17 ( talk) 12:01, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Not as lively discussion as last time, despite the mass ping. Still, it is clear there has been a shift in consensus toward rename. The issue of COMMONNAME remains elusive here. Again, one of the reason for supporting the rename also involved contrasting Rojava with the official conventional long form and its usage. A well thought out, but singular opposition did result in some discussion, but the overall direction of the request is clear toward moving. Finally, note that while Rojava automatically redirects here now, that is only procedural. It may be redirected elsewhere. It may even be re-authored as a separate article. So, that is left to the discretion of contributors. El_C 10:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Rojava →
Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria – Support move - This article is largely about the Administration in North and East Syria, consisting of many areas Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians and other minorities live in stretching over large areas of Syria. "Rojava" is something different, it is a name kurds use for areas in north Syria they live in. This administrations own official name for themselves is the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. We should therefor change the name of this article to that.
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk) 13:12, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
--
Supreme Deliciousness (
talk)
05:55, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
Administrator note as the admin who has closed the last move request as no consensus to move, another proper move request is permitted. But this is not it. Please follow the documentation to launch a move request for this effort to be deemed valid. Regardless of its outcome, after it is concluded, a lengthy move moratorium may be imposed (for a duration of, say, a year). El_C 11:56, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم ( talk) 05:33, 1 July 2020 (UTC)With respect to Northeast Syria, last year the Kurdish YPG forces attempted to impose Kurdish textbooks and Kurdish language courses on Aramean schools in Qamishli, which they have chosen as the capital of a self-declared federal region called ‘Rojava’ – a name which has no historical basis.
Rojava needs new own article and it is highly POV. Sometimes we not do COMMONNAME if it has NPOV issues see this relevant discussion [14] Shadow4dark ( talk) 20:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
The lede states: "The supporters of the region's administration state that it is an officially secular polity". This seems a strange way to put this; I've never heard of it accused of being non-secular. Is there a reason for this wording?
Konli17 (
talk)
19:58, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
There is currently an open discussion here regarding changing the name of Rojava conflict. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم ( talk) 23:38, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
@
Supreme Deliciousness: Please revert your revert. The content عمرو بن كلثوم added is not supported by the sources. The first sentence is literally completely false: "The steppe area that makes up most of the area under PYD control in 2020 has historically been the domain of nomad and sedentary Arabs." is not supported by Fevret who is only talking about areas in Al-Hasakah Governorate, not the rest of the area covered by the AANES. The gigantic quote is also not helpful at all, and does not belong into this article. Put it into some other article like Kurds in Syria or Demographics of Syria, where these things can be discussed in detail.
The old version of this article was stable and generally agreed upon. Lets keep it that way.
Applodion (
talk)
09:05, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Applodion, "The area is historically been highly diverse" is not sourced to say the least. I will add a British ethnographic map to show the demographic history. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم ( talk) 15:22, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
The administration responded to the Human Rights Watch Report - see [1].
Shouldn't this be included? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:1D07:3500:6095:67CD:90:9C72 ( talk) 17:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
References
@ Applodion: So one the section on Kurdification, the only example was use of Kurdish names in majority Kurdish cities so I re-added the accuse section as up to 50% of the SDF is non-Kurdish. The inability of other Kurdish parties are unable to operate however it also seems as though as a form of authoritarianism, however it does seem slightly minor viewpoint within the grand schemes of things as does not seem to be the widely accepted scholarly consensus. Authoritarianism is extremely minor in the AANES, working with foreign governments in the region. Especially when compared to organizations such as SNA or the SAA, HTS, even in the HTS article we put "accused" as it although clearly fits in the definition, much certainly more then in the AANES. There is not enough, for a claim on Kurdification we need absolute consensus which isn't present from sources. Des Vallee ( talk) 10:49, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
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In the third paragraph there is a typo. It says ANNES when AANES is intended. Hevalkinch ( talk) 08:02, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
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4th paragraph, "through a system of local councils in minority, cultural and religious repersentation": change 'repersentation' to 'representation' GenericUsername3 ( talk) 23:55, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
The current into reads more like a propaganda leaflet extolling the virtues of Rojava than a neutral encyclopedia article. It provides little context about the region/government, repeats all its supposed virtues over and over and over again, and also actively discredits criticisms. Regardless of whether or not this place is genuinely amazing (for all I know it may well be, I was reading it precisely because I'm ignorant about the topic), it's a shambolic, WP:NPOV-violating lead.
e.g. "AANES has support all over the world for its universal equal democratic, sustainable, autonomous pluralist, equal, and feminist policies" ... "an officially secular polity with direct democratic ambitions based on an anarchistic, feminist, and libertarian socialist ideology promoting decentralization, gender equality, environmental sustainability, social ecology and pluralistic tolerance for religious, cultural and political diversity, and that these values are mirrored in its constitution, society, and politics, stating it to be a model for a federalized Syria as a whole" ... "the AANES has been the most democratic system in Syria, with direct open elections, universal equality, respecting human rights within the region, as well as defense of minority and religious rights" ... region has a new social justice approach was implemented that emphasizes rehabilitation, empowerment and social care over retribution ... bases its policy ambitions to a large extent on democratic libertarian socialist ideology of democratic confederalism and have been described as pursuing a model of economy that blends co-operative and market enterprise, through a system of local councils in minority, cultural and religious representation. The AANES has by far the highest average salaries and standard of living throughout Syria.
Any thoughts on what can be done to clean it up among watchers/regular editors? If not, I'll try and give it a complete overhaul (and take a sweeping axe to the repetitious praise) some time over the next couple of weeks, when I've done more reading. Jr8825 • Talk 19:47, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
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In the Religion section this text appears, with problems noted (here shown numbered 1. and 2.):
Change to:
References
49.177.73.238 ( talk) 08:00, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
I changed 'The AANES has support all over the world for its universal equal...' to 'The AANES has widespread support for its universal equal...' as 'all over the world' seemed unlikely; hardly anything has support 'all over the world'. BlackcurrantTea ( talk) 20:33, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
I am one of the biggest supporters you'll find of the AANES, SDF, the SNC, and the Syriacs/Assyrians, Ezidis, Teyar El-Qemih, ENKS, and CDR who have joined the administration. I have personal connections to some of these orgs and to this part of the world. However, I would warn against taking at face value the pronouncements such as, the system of government under operation in the AANES is "Libertarian socialist federated semi-direct democracy". I can barely stifle a giggle just typing it out. It is not quite Martial Law, but it is not far from it. Even if you were to believe it to be possible to establish a feminist, eco-friendly, LGBT+ friendly "libertarian socialist federated semi-direct democracy" in NE Syria, it certainly couldn't be established under the present conditions. The YPG still follow in the same martial traditions as the PKK and PYD in terms of recruiting minors (separating children from their families, forcibly conscripting them)and monopolizing the use of political and military power where it is most crucial. Thus the inevitable mutual distrust, and unfortunately ingrained rumor-spreading culture, between the various ethnic and religious groups (and not just between Kurds and Arabs and Kurds and Turkmen, but between Assyrians and the YPG, between Ezidis and the YPG, between anti-Ocalan/anti-Marxist Kurdish politicians and the old guard - yes, Ocalan's portrait still adorns many a camp and checkpoint in the AANES). It's a war zone, it's state-building in its infancy, it's rule by the force of arms, it's not, *giggle*, "libertarian socialist federated semi-direct democracy". At least not yet! But, inshallah ;-) TomReagan90 ( talk) 15:23, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
It is clear that the AANES has an ideological connection to Öcalan, but the international classification of the PKK and the AANES are completely different. Internationally Turkey equates AANES politicians with the PKK, NATO, EU and the UN etc. don't do so. Why include a terror classification of the PKK in the lead of the AANES article? Then also, the EU source doesn't even mention the AANES. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 20:59, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
nobody classified AANES as same organization with PKK. its obvious that you are talking about my edits, so i am going to talk about that. I only write the fact that "Rojavans follow Abdullah Öcalan's revolutionary socialist path" which is founder of PKK, recognized as a terrorist organization by European Commission. it is pretty pretty related to AANES/Rojava and important for readers' knowledge. I've showed Rojava Information Center for Öcalan thing and European Commission's file that is shared on official website as recognization. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 00:49, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
AANES does not refer to "Gender Equality" or "Democracy" parts of Abdullah Öcalan, please stop writing false informations. As i wrote in my sentence, AANES' Abdullah Öcalan interest is mainly related on socialist revolutionary ideas. in the mind of AANES, Abdullah Öcalan is really important person. its proof is that there is Abdullah Öcalan posters and pictures in bilboards everywhere in Rojava controlled areas. the relation is absolutely not based on "women rights" and "democracy". BerkBerk68 ( talk) 08:35, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
The sources are referring to "socialist revolutionary ideological influence" by Abdullah Öcalan. Not gender equality or Democracy. He talked like according to my sources they took gender equality and Democracy from Abdullah Öcalan meanwhile the sources were about something else. Did i say that "there is no gender equality on AANES"? BerkBerk68 ( talk) 10:38, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
i did neither mean or say anything, can you show the exact part that i've said that please? Also if AANES is following the path of PKK's ideology, then we ofcourse should write the fact that PKK being designated as a terrorist organization. if some organization followed ideology of Taliban, I'd say its important to write it at its page and if Taliban was not known worldwide, it would be important to point that Taliban is designated as a terrorist organization aswell. Also if you agree the fact that Rojava follows path of Abdullah Öcalan, then why did you delete the first sentence which is exactly saying that? BerkBerk68 ( talk) 10:21, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
I guess "showing the exact part" couldn't be answered, so i am going to pass that. You are saying that "not every presidental Democracy acts like USA" but there is no other example than USA which see George Washington as main teacher just like how no other organization see Muhammad Omar as their ideological teacher other than Taliban. But in terms of Rojava and PKK, unfortunately I couldn't say the same. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 21:45, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure i didn't violate "one revert per day" rule at all. Please check the page history. Also you just showed Pakistani Taliban as an example to another example? So we can say Rojava is "Pakistani Taliban" of PKK? And we are here to discuss "Terrorism" thing, we are discussing. If i ignored you I wouldn't write anything here. I am saying again and again, PKK is recognized as a terrorist organization by many authorities, and Rojava is an organization that have powerful links with Öcalan. A reader who doesn't know anything about these situations just wouldn't care about Öcalan. Its all about informing people with real informations. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 23:47, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
No, I don't? I saw his account before but i don't have any relations. and here is not for discussing it, here is for discussing the page. It is getting really hard to understand your logic, You are talking about neutrality, which is just because 2 sentences I've written meanwhile both of them are correct. Thats right i have violated 1RR once with 3 reverse in one day, but nothing more than it. I am not here to discuss that, I am here to discuss the page so do not wait an answer if you try to continue about talking this. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 07:38, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
As Wikipedia editors, we are obliged to inform the public objectively. Rojava Information Centre is the official media of AANES. Therefore, all claims made up there are applicable for AANES including the Abdullah Ocalan one. Considering this you cannot delete information arbitrarily to put the page in shape you want others to see as. I don’t have any relationship with BerkBerk68. But I believe you have with ParadiseChronicle as I see both of you and Applodion reverting the pages that Turks are keen on when a new piece of information is added. Uhudlu Okçu ( talk) 08:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
I mean huh, you guys are accuser here. I am pretty sure that admins have access to both Uhudlu Okçu's and mine IPs. 94.235.202.250 ( talk) 09:30, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
what is the question on your mind Applodion? I pretty pretty answered. BerkBerk68 ( talk) 10:40, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
I have some degree of expertise in this subject, and I have respect intellectually for what both parties to the argument are trying to achieve. As Applodion plainly states: "the PKK is not the same as the AANES; ergo, any terrorist designation of the PKK does not mean the AANES is designated as terrorist" is undeniable. And no mention of any terrorist designation or even the word terrorism should appear in the lede. Nevertheless, the PYD - which is the backbone of what is now the AANES - was simply the Syrian branch of the PKK, and this ought not to be denied. But it doesn't belong in the lede, as, obviously, the war has dramatically altered the political structures of the Kurdish orgs and their relationship with both the Assad govt and the Turkish govt. (without going into too much detail, it gets very murky with regards to who supported which of the various branches of Ocalan's organization, Wikileaks showed that Turkey gave limited support to PJAK against Iran - and Sunni Jihadists simultaneously - during the Iraq War, while the Turkish state at various times aided the PYD against Assad, while simultaneously killing tens of thousands of Kurdish civilians in trying to get at the comrades, the PKK in SE Turkey). And while the PYD provides most of the political cadres for the AANES, they are not synonymous - there has been much additional input from the KDP, SDF-SDC, the KNC, and more! TomReagan90 ( talk) 15:02, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
"The AANES has by far the highest average salaries and standard of living throughout Syria, with salaries being twice as large as in regime controlled Syria; following the collapse of the Syrian Pound the AANES doubled salaries to maintain inflation, and allow for good wages." Where is the associated evidence or citation for this?
Bryce Springfield ( talk) 04:18, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
The first sentence of the second paragraph of this article is now outdated. The Catalan Parliament has officially recognized AANES.
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/catalan-parliament-recognises-autonomous-syrian-kurdish-administration-in-historic-moment — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThirdAgrarian ( talk • contribs) 15:46, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
I forgot my password so I can’t edit this myself, but upon reading the sources for the paragraph of the war crimes section that says that critical media is banned, I can confidently say that the section is misleading if not altogether incorrect. One of the sources speaks about a general atmosphere of tension and uncertainty, but the same source explicitly states that any censorship is largely self-imposed by the local reporters, and makes no mention of banning (though there is mention of a fear of licenses being revoked, I recommend whoever is monitoring this page to look at the sources themselves, just in case I’m massively misinterpreting, though I’m fairly confident in my understanding). The other source mentions one instance of a banning in 2015, though mentions it specifically as a footnote to a line talking about how the banning was in a specific region and contrasting it with another. It was a source for a statement on disorganization/lack of communication between the two regions because one has a press committee and the other doesn’t, not a general statement saying that banning is a common occurrence. In context it seems more like a bureaucratic mistake than suppression of dissidents.
I’d suggest that the section on a whole have the sources double checked, as the latter one I mentioned is used earlier in it, though I couldn’t see the page of the source when checking it. 108.54.114.216 ( talk) 22:21, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Classical Syriac is not spoken in Rojava, unless they’ve opened a time portal and summoned the citizens of ancient Edessa. The form of Aramaic spoken in Rojava is Assyrian Neo-Aramaic. Just a quick correction! 199.89.180.254 ( talk) 17:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
Isn't Rojava de-facto sovereign/independent? Autonomous would mean, that it still has to adhere to laws of the state it belongs to, but they are not following laws of the syrian government, are they? 130.83.6.86 ( talk) 21:00, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
"Social ecology" in the first sentence of the third paragraph links to the Ecology page instead of the Social Ecology (Bookchin) page. This should be rectified.
TheFauxFoe ( talk) 11:05, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Applodion:, you seem to have accidentally removed info [15] from the article regarding a recent report about child soldiers and Rojava. Could you please add that info back to the article? X-Editor ( talk) 18:37, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
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Under section “External Relations”, the second subsection is called “Kurdish question” which to me sounds disturbingly close to the phrase “Jewish question”, the English form of a euphemism used by Nazi Germany to discuss their genocide of European Jews. The English phrase remains in use by neo-Nazis and white supremacists is English-speaking nations.
I would prefer to see the subsection in question retitled as something like “Kurdish issues” or “Kurdistan issue” to avoid the similarity with a very antisemitic reference to the Holocaust and its horrific purpose. So please CHANGE section “External Relations” second subsection name FROM “Kurdish question” TO “Kurdish issues” or “Kurdistan issue” 64.127.203.128 ( talk) 16:10, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
t
c
16:32, 14 February 2023 (UTC)The introduction states that in the AANES there are "direct open elections" which I don't believe is the case.
Not only elections are frequently postponed but they are largely dominated by the PYD that excludes both the regime's Baath and other (truly) independent parties or KRG-linked movements.
I therefore suggest the removal of "direct open elections". 22Chev22 ( talk) 17:18, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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Remove “with further attacks on unarmed fleeing civilians conducted by local Arab militias” from the History section. It seems vandalism, I couldn’t verify it in any of the cited sources nor have read it anywhere before. Chafique ( talk) 20:45, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
The politics section of the article completely fails to actually meaningfully describe the political-adminsitrative system of AANES - how are councils formed, how are elections held, etc. The ideological background is good and all, as is mentioning issues, but, you can't see the issues until the system is actually described. Linking to a wikipedia article about the consitutions (which doesn't describe the structure either) or to the ideology (which may be the basis of the structure, but simply serves as its foundation) is not sufficient. 83.190.80.156 ( talk) 14:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
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Law and security —> human's rights
The region's civil government has been hailed in international media for human rights advancement in particular in the legal system, concerning women's rights, ethnic minority rights, freedom of Speech and Press and for hosting inbound refugees.[279][280][281][282] The political agenda of "trying to break the honor-based religious and tribal rules that confine women" is controversial in conservative quarters of society.[257] Conscription into the Self-Defence Forces (HXP) has been called a human rights violation by those who call the region's institutions illegitimate.[283]
Add "men's rights" between "women's rights, ethnic minority rights", using this link or these sources: [1] [2]. AlmostDeveloper ( talk) 16:26, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
Edit extended-protected}}
template. I find your rationale on their men's rights questionable. Firstly, you appear to believe that men's rights is not good in this region, which is the opposite of "has been hailed". Secondly, conscription is another type of abuse than men's rights and child conscription is another thing entirely. 60% is not enough to say it predominantly conscripts men, especially without a figure on gender balance within the region.
Aaron Liu (
talk)
21:26, 27 November 2023 (UTC)This
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The region's civil government has been hailed in international media for human rights advancement in particular
in the legal system, concerning
women's rights,
men's rights,
ethnic minority rights,
freedom of Speech and Press and for
hosting inbound refugees.
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
AlmostDeveloper (
talk)
09:55, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (AANES) has been renamed to the Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (DAANES) as of 14/12/2023. Can someone kindly update the wikipedia page to reflect this update? Here is a couple sources to support the name change:
-Kurdistan 24 : https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/story/33441-New-administration-name-adopted-for-local-administration-in-northeast-Syria
-Arabic source: https://aawsat.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B4%D8%B1%D9%82-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A/4726676-%C2%AB%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B0%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%8A%D8%A9%C2%BB-%D8%B4%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%B4%D8%B1%D9%82-%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D8%AA%D8%B9%D8%AF%D9%91%D9%84-%D8%AA%D8%B3%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7-%D9%88%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%AD%D8%AF-%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B7%D9%82%D9%87%D8%A7-%D9%81%D9%8A AntnSV ( talk) 03:12, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
In the second paragraph, it's also worth mentioning that Rojava is recognized by the Kurdistan Regional Government, as outlined in the provided source: https://legislation.krd/law-detail/?id=4714 Kurdian ( talk) 16:55, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
meredith
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Sheppard
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).In July 2018, SDF declared an end to using child soldiers and released [all the used children - ] 56 underage boys to their families in December 2018.
Cases of violations relating to sexual violence remained significantly underreported, in particular when perpetrated against boys...
The United Nations verified the recruitment and use of 45 boys and 1 girl, with some of the children recruited as young as 8, who were used for combat, at checkpoints, to plant improvised explosive devices, to carry out suicide attacks or other violations, or for sexual exploitation.