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![]() | On 24 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Auto-antonym to Contronym. The result of the discussion was Moved. |
Section Linguistic mechanisms is poorly sourced and needs citations. I am challenging the entire content of this section, including all of the examples, with the exception of the story about St. Paul's, and the "ar ball" example. Sources should be added to support the material in this section. Anything that remains unsourced, should be removed. Mathglot ( talk) 06:12, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
I also feel as if it is hard to parse. The standard pattern is: World can mean 'Meaning One' or 'Meaning Two' - this works quite well, however some sections don't confirm to that layout and I makes it harder to understand as a result. Inputdata ( talk) 16:44, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Is Impregnable really an example of this? The example given of the inverse is "impregnation" (to get someone/something pregnant, or to add material into another material). It seems to me that the words have a common root, but, are themselves different words. It is the only example that, when reading through the list, made me stop and go "eh?". I don't wish to remove it just because I don't get it - perhaps I am just been thick? In any case it needs explanation as the citation is equally as confusing. -- Inputdata ( talk) 17:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Tomgirl" can mean "boyish girl" or "girlish boy". -- Sharouser ( talk) 14:43, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Enjoin can be a command to do something or a command not to do something [1]. In the Talk:Auto-antonym § Removing words from the list section above, it was argued that these couldn't be opposites since they are both commands. I find this line of reasoning to be deeply flawed. It is analogous to saying that "yes" is not the opposite of "no" because they are both answers to a question. The fact that the two meanings of enjoin are opposites can easily be seen in its use. For example, if someone were to "enjoin" you to do X, with the intent that you don't do X, and then they find out that you had gone ahead and done X, they would rightly think that you had done the opposite of what they had asked. Further supporting this line of reasoning, enjoin is included in multiple lists of auto-antonyms from reliable sources [2] [3], including one which is in the external links of this very page. While the inclusion of "enjoin" in these lists bolsters the case for its inclusion on the examples list of this page, I maintain that a consideration of the dictionary definition and the use of common sense is sufficient to see that "enjoin" is indeed an auto-antonym. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thelonelyneutrino ( talk • contribs)
References
Since no distinction was made in Proto Indo-European between borrowing and lending, this is a very common feature in many Indo European languages. This example is written too much as if it were a quirk of German and Polish, but the cognate contranym can be found in Spanish (prestar) and likely many other languages. I think this is such a general and interesting example it should be reworded. Its not just that German and Polish can have these words traced back to a Latin contranym, indeed a lange portion of human languages can trace their words for borrow or lend to a P.I.E. contranym. Coldham10 ( talk) 06:49, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
"down" = "up" or "down".
"I'm feeling down. You down for a party?"
"I'm feeling down. You up for a party?"
and for that matter
"I'm feeling up! You down for a party?"
"I'm feeling up! You up for a party?"
Not really up on this article so you all's call if it fits. Herostratus ( talk) 19:54, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
"repress" = "to not allow something, especially feelings, to be expressed:" [1] or "reissue an album on vinyl or CD from the original master recording" [2] David Scrimshaw ( talk) 17:09, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
References
Do कल, کل, ospite, huésped, hôte and ar ball (which looks similar to French "tout à l'heure") really have opposite meanings ? "Host" and "guest" are different flavors of the same role: people who meet together. "کل" actually means "one day away from now". Apokrif ( talk) 16:04, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
In English, at least in American English, the term, "constructive knowledge", is often used to refer to a situation where there's a reasonable presumption of knowledge, but there is actually a lack of knowledge in spite of the reasonableness of the presumption. It mainly shows up in law. CessnaMan1989 ( talk) 20:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
This expression can mean 1. Something is worsening 2. Something is becoming increasingly easy, like how biking down a hill is easier than up it. They aren't exactly opposite meanings but close enough to merit being included on this page I think. Adam Friedland's Soiled White Pants ( talk) 09:03, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
I added apology, bolt, bound and weather to the English examples section because they are auto-antonyms in common use that are not found in other articles, inside or outside of Wikepedia. The reason given for their removal was I did not, "Provide a reliable source". Each word was given a link to Dictionary.com. Dictionary.com cites as its sources in the entries for these four words:
Had these words been found in other sources they would not have been added to the examples and I would hope we could all agree that those dictionaries are reliable. I request the edit be reinstated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.159.125 ( talk) 21:35, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
From the article:
But "beliefs about the afterlife" and "the study of feces" are not "opposite meanings", which the article states is a necessary condition for being auto-antonyms. So this is just a word with two completely unrelated (but not opposite) meanings. The andf ( talk) 21:15, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I have had this article on my watchlist for a while, and the editing on it seems to consist almost entirely of people bickering about whether examples are notable, and trying to keep the list short, and trying to add relevant things, et cetera, et cetera. Why don't we just spin out a list and be done with it? jp× g 05:01, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved, there is consensus that "contronym" (and "contranym") are the more common name(s) for this concept. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs ( talk) 14:47, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Auto-antonym →
Contronym – Contronym seems to be by far the
WP:COMMONNAME here, four times the Google results (and auto-antonym doesn't even come up on ngrams). The Oxford English Dictionary only has contronym. Auto-antonym seems to have originated from the initial ref and a cursory Google Books search shows no mentions before 1965, whereas contronym originated around the 50s-60s. –
Isochrone (
T) 14:08, 24 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ❯❯❯
Raydann
(Talk)
23:36, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
These two meanings (of the many listed) appear (to me) to be contradictory:
"pitch, v. (1968-) transitive. North American colloquial. To discard, throw away. Also with out.", and
"pitch, v. (1943-) transitive. To try to sell (merchandise) by persuasion, esp. by drawing attention to specific attractions, advantages, etc. Now usually figurative…"
both taken from OED. Fortunately, I read this Talk page first, particularly the discussion of List v. non-List, and am unsure of how to proceed. What do you think? Sudleyplace ( talk) 17:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
From Wiktionary:
Are these not directly opposite meanings? A citation might be needed to add to the article. I will add it to the article if another user agrees. -1ctinus📝 🗨 17:42, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Contronym article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 24 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Auto-antonym to Contronym. The result of the discussion was Moved. |
Section Linguistic mechanisms is poorly sourced and needs citations. I am challenging the entire content of this section, including all of the examples, with the exception of the story about St. Paul's, and the "ar ball" example. Sources should be added to support the material in this section. Anything that remains unsourced, should be removed. Mathglot ( talk) 06:12, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
I also feel as if it is hard to parse. The standard pattern is: World can mean 'Meaning One' or 'Meaning Two' - this works quite well, however some sections don't confirm to that layout and I makes it harder to understand as a result. Inputdata ( talk) 16:44, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Is Impregnable really an example of this? The example given of the inverse is "impregnation" (to get someone/something pregnant, or to add material into another material). It seems to me that the words have a common root, but, are themselves different words. It is the only example that, when reading through the list, made me stop and go "eh?". I don't wish to remove it just because I don't get it - perhaps I am just been thick? In any case it needs explanation as the citation is equally as confusing. -- Inputdata ( talk) 17:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Tomgirl" can mean "boyish girl" or "girlish boy". -- Sharouser ( talk) 14:43, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Enjoin can be a command to do something or a command not to do something [1]. In the Talk:Auto-antonym § Removing words from the list section above, it was argued that these couldn't be opposites since they are both commands. I find this line of reasoning to be deeply flawed. It is analogous to saying that "yes" is not the opposite of "no" because they are both answers to a question. The fact that the two meanings of enjoin are opposites can easily be seen in its use. For example, if someone were to "enjoin" you to do X, with the intent that you don't do X, and then they find out that you had gone ahead and done X, they would rightly think that you had done the opposite of what they had asked. Further supporting this line of reasoning, enjoin is included in multiple lists of auto-antonyms from reliable sources [2] [3], including one which is in the external links of this very page. While the inclusion of "enjoin" in these lists bolsters the case for its inclusion on the examples list of this page, I maintain that a consideration of the dictionary definition and the use of common sense is sufficient to see that "enjoin" is indeed an auto-antonym. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thelonelyneutrino ( talk • contribs)
References
Since no distinction was made in Proto Indo-European between borrowing and lending, this is a very common feature in many Indo European languages. This example is written too much as if it were a quirk of German and Polish, but the cognate contranym can be found in Spanish (prestar) and likely many other languages. I think this is such a general and interesting example it should be reworded. Its not just that German and Polish can have these words traced back to a Latin contranym, indeed a lange portion of human languages can trace their words for borrow or lend to a P.I.E. contranym. Coldham10 ( talk) 06:49, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
"down" = "up" or "down".
"I'm feeling down. You down for a party?"
"I'm feeling down. You up for a party?"
and for that matter
"I'm feeling up! You down for a party?"
"I'm feeling up! You up for a party?"
Not really up on this article so you all's call if it fits. Herostratus ( talk) 19:54, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
"repress" = "to not allow something, especially feelings, to be expressed:" [1] or "reissue an album on vinyl or CD from the original master recording" [2] David Scrimshaw ( talk) 17:09, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
References
Do कल, کل, ospite, huésped, hôte and ar ball (which looks similar to French "tout à l'heure") really have opposite meanings ? "Host" and "guest" are different flavors of the same role: people who meet together. "کل" actually means "one day away from now". Apokrif ( talk) 16:04, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
In English, at least in American English, the term, "constructive knowledge", is often used to refer to a situation where there's a reasonable presumption of knowledge, but there is actually a lack of knowledge in spite of the reasonableness of the presumption. It mainly shows up in law. CessnaMan1989 ( talk) 20:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
This expression can mean 1. Something is worsening 2. Something is becoming increasingly easy, like how biking down a hill is easier than up it. They aren't exactly opposite meanings but close enough to merit being included on this page I think. Adam Friedland's Soiled White Pants ( talk) 09:03, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
I added apology, bolt, bound and weather to the English examples section because they are auto-antonyms in common use that are not found in other articles, inside or outside of Wikepedia. The reason given for their removal was I did not, "Provide a reliable source". Each word was given a link to Dictionary.com. Dictionary.com cites as its sources in the entries for these four words:
Had these words been found in other sources they would not have been added to the examples and I would hope we could all agree that those dictionaries are reliable. I request the edit be reinstated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.159.125 ( talk) 21:35, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
From the article:
But "beliefs about the afterlife" and "the study of feces" are not "opposite meanings", which the article states is a necessary condition for being auto-antonyms. So this is just a word with two completely unrelated (but not opposite) meanings. The andf ( talk) 21:15, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I have had this article on my watchlist for a while, and the editing on it seems to consist almost entirely of people bickering about whether examples are notable, and trying to keep the list short, and trying to add relevant things, et cetera, et cetera. Why don't we just spin out a list and be done with it? jp× g 05:01, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved, there is consensus that "contronym" (and "contranym") are the more common name(s) for this concept. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs ( talk) 14:47, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Auto-antonym →
Contronym – Contronym seems to be by far the
WP:COMMONNAME here, four times the Google results (and auto-antonym doesn't even come up on ngrams). The Oxford English Dictionary only has contronym. Auto-antonym seems to have originated from the initial ref and a cursory Google Books search shows no mentions before 1965, whereas contronym originated around the 50s-60s. –
Isochrone (
T) 14:08, 24 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ❯❯❯
Raydann
(Talk)
23:36, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
These two meanings (of the many listed) appear (to me) to be contradictory:
"pitch, v. (1968-) transitive. North American colloquial. To discard, throw away. Also with out.", and
"pitch, v. (1943-) transitive. To try to sell (merchandise) by persuasion, esp. by drawing attention to specific attractions, advantages, etc. Now usually figurative…"
both taken from OED. Fortunately, I read this Talk page first, particularly the discussion of List v. non-List, and am unsure of how to proceed. What do you think? Sudleyplace ( talk) 17:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
From Wiktionary:
Are these not directly opposite meanings? A citation might be needed to add to the article. I will add it to the article if another user agrees. -1ctinus📝 🗨 17:42, 11 January 2024 (UTC)