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I looked for a number of variations on self-insertion before creating that article, but didn't think of 'author surrogate'. Maybe a merge is in order.
However, I'm not sure whether they're describing quite the same thing. Author surrogate seems to be talking primarily about major characters who act as a mouthpiece for the author. Self-insertion often covers minor characters who are used for purposes of self-mockery, or simply as an in-joke (akin to Alfred Hitchcock's cameos in his movies; while they represent the author, a lot of them don't really serve as surrogates. (For instance, Ariadne Oliver doesn't really provide much exposition on other characters; she's mostly there to mock Agatha Christie and flesh out the ranks a bit.) Would this work better as a merge, or as two interlinked articles? -- Calair 23:48, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Before I knew the term Author Surrogate I felt like Gandalf serves that purpose in Lord of the Rings. Has anyone else noticed that? -- theDunedan 07:00, 11 April 2005
As I recall, Mary Sue was a character in a certain series of Star Trek fanfics who, well, encapsulated what is commonly called a Mary Sue today. Can anyone correlate? 24.69.18.229 04:38, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
The section of the article on Usage suggests Galt, while the Examples list Taggart. I have not read Atlas Shrugged, but maybe someone who has could reconcile these statements. -- 69.143.3.122 22:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with the notion that Mark Twain used the character of Huck as an author surrogate. Huck's role in the novel was a demonstration of southern ignorance and growth from which. A very good example of a surrogate from Huckleberry Finn would be Colonel Sherburn, who's speech regarding the true cowardice behind lynchings performed by southerners has been recognized as coming straight from the personal sentiment of Twain. [1].
This article downplays the fact that an author surrogate is not necessarily a major character, especially in that all of the examples listed are as such. Unless anyone objects I'll ammend this and the Huck issue.
GarconDansLeNoir 06:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I've removed a few sentences from the Fan Fiction section of the article which dealt specifically with a character from Twilight and her alleged Mary Sue-ness. There was no source (and, for that matter, Twilight is not fan fiction), and the absence thereof made it smack of original research. dcd139 ( talk) 05:16, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
What support is there for the examples? If there aren't references cited, wouldn't that skate perilously close to original research (someone adding a character because "hey, I think this author is writing himself in")? Petronivs ( talk) 15:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
I think that the character of Dante in the Divine Commedy is actually self-insertion, while the actual author surrogate is the character of Virgil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.53.173.116 ( talk) 20:50, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
As noted above, the examples were entirely uncited. Please feel free to readd them as sources materialize. The list follows. Mintrick ( talk) 00:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps one of the best known is Kilgore Trout, author surrogate to Kurt Vonnegut. Vonnegut made no secret of the fact, and met Trout personally more than once in his works.
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I looked for a number of variations on self-insertion before creating that article, but didn't think of 'author surrogate'. Maybe a merge is in order.
However, I'm not sure whether they're describing quite the same thing. Author surrogate seems to be talking primarily about major characters who act as a mouthpiece for the author. Self-insertion often covers minor characters who are used for purposes of self-mockery, or simply as an in-joke (akin to Alfred Hitchcock's cameos in his movies; while they represent the author, a lot of them don't really serve as surrogates. (For instance, Ariadne Oliver doesn't really provide much exposition on other characters; she's mostly there to mock Agatha Christie and flesh out the ranks a bit.) Would this work better as a merge, or as two interlinked articles? -- Calair 23:48, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Before I knew the term Author Surrogate I felt like Gandalf serves that purpose in Lord of the Rings. Has anyone else noticed that? -- theDunedan 07:00, 11 April 2005
As I recall, Mary Sue was a character in a certain series of Star Trek fanfics who, well, encapsulated what is commonly called a Mary Sue today. Can anyone correlate? 24.69.18.229 04:38, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
The section of the article on Usage suggests Galt, while the Examples list Taggart. I have not read Atlas Shrugged, but maybe someone who has could reconcile these statements. -- 69.143.3.122 22:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with the notion that Mark Twain used the character of Huck as an author surrogate. Huck's role in the novel was a demonstration of southern ignorance and growth from which. A very good example of a surrogate from Huckleberry Finn would be Colonel Sherburn, who's speech regarding the true cowardice behind lynchings performed by southerners has been recognized as coming straight from the personal sentiment of Twain. [1].
This article downplays the fact that an author surrogate is not necessarily a major character, especially in that all of the examples listed are as such. Unless anyone objects I'll ammend this and the Huck issue.
GarconDansLeNoir 06:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I've removed a few sentences from the Fan Fiction section of the article which dealt specifically with a character from Twilight and her alleged Mary Sue-ness. There was no source (and, for that matter, Twilight is not fan fiction), and the absence thereof made it smack of original research. dcd139 ( talk) 05:16, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
What support is there for the examples? If there aren't references cited, wouldn't that skate perilously close to original research (someone adding a character because "hey, I think this author is writing himself in")? Petronivs ( talk) 15:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
I think that the character of Dante in the Divine Commedy is actually self-insertion, while the actual author surrogate is the character of Virgil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.53.173.116 ( talk) 20:50, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
As noted above, the examples were entirely uncited. Please feel free to readd them as sources materialize. The list follows. Mintrick ( talk) 00:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps one of the best known is Kilgore Trout, author surrogate to Kurt Vonnegut. Vonnegut made no secret of the fact, and met Trout personally more than once in his works.