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A quote from Tacitus says that Anthony's self-indulgence "got the better of him." I nearly changed this as being unencyclopedic but decided to refrain since it was within quotes. Obviously the translator from took some liberties, as the best ones do, when translating, since this is most likely does not translate literally from the Latin. Bringing up a larger point for all articles - when must an editor accept a tranlated statement? When may s/he do her/his own translation? Student7 ( talk) 12:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Nice! I knew all that hard work would pay off. You better be thanking me from above Augustus. Lol. On second thought, he'd probably have me cut down by his praetorians for adding criticism about him in the article. :P Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 03:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
While it seems like a pain, prompt warning of vandals on their page tends to discourage 80% of them, particularly the ones who have just started. It is worth the time. Student7 ( talk) 11:30, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
What does a deletion of the article contents actually bring anyone? Admins might have to think about people doind that but, on the other hand, why would (and is) people so stupid to want admins to half-protect articles only for them not to be able to delete their information. If they are not even half-protected, what is the achievement then? 134.60.10.143 ( talk) 14:32, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Some clown inserted a racial slur at the end of the paragraph on Augustus's early life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.29.176.83 ( talk) 16:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
In the Early life Section, there is the following sentence: "Philippus never had much of an interest in young Octavius. Because of this, Octavius was raised by his grandmother (and Julius Caesar's sister), Julia Caesaris."
However, in the Main article: Augustus' Early life (link on the page) and in the Main article about Lucius Marcius Philippus (link on the page) the following sentence can be read: "Philippus cherished his new step-children as if they were his own."
Both statements seem to contradict each other. I suggest that some expert check the sources and decides where Philipus cherished or ignored Octavius!!!
Aeneas10 (
talk)
12:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC) You are right in sayin that these statements directly contradict each other and that is one of the greatest problems with ancient historical texts. It is because one of the ancient sources says the one thing and another the other. Such is the unreliability of virtually all Roman texts.
In the article, it says, "An astrologer had given a warning to his father. However, his father decided to keep the child despite the warning (rather than leave the child in the open to be eaten by dogs)." Does anyone know what the warning was? It was something to the effect like, "he will murder the father to marry the mother," like Oedipus, then I can see it being at least something that is note worthy. But to have the warning not mentioned, and his father ignoring it, seems to be extraneous and not adding to the value of this article. I can't find a reference to this "warning" and there is none listed. Can anyone verify this, and if so, say what the warning entailed? These two sentences seem so out of place.-- 69.27.229.11 ( talk) 17:30, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Aeneas10 ( talk) 19:28, 3 March 2009 (UTC)Cassius Dio 45.1 states that Octavian's father wanted to have him destroyed, because he was prophesied to one day wield absolute power- an idea anathema to Romans at that point. Almost certainly this story was created retrospectively, as a lot of pre and early natal legends, of great men in this age, were.
Under the "Early Life" section, it states, "Octavian only mentions his father's equestrian family briefly in his memoirs". This statement seems to imply that Octavian's father was a member of the aristocratic equestrian order. However, the following paragraph contradicts that by stating, "Since Octavius' father was a plebeian, Octavius himself was a plebeian". One of those statements has to be incorrect. Octavian's father could not have been both an equestrian and a plebeian. The equestrian order and the plebeian class were two separate entities. Equestrians were knights and occupied the lower ranks of the aristocracy whereas plebeians were commoners and made up the lower class of Roman society. -- 76.89.202.43 ( talk) 23:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Also, Atia Balba was a plebeian, not a patrician, as she was the daughter of the sister of G Julius Caesar Dictator. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
193.63.184.1 (
talk)
16:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I think I added the physical appearance portion months ago but I didn't reference it. I'm happy to see that it's now referenced and left in. I also added some of the physical appearance sections on the other 12 emperors pages from Suetonis's work. Because there is only flattering busts and coin profiles I think the first hand seeminglu impartial descriptions really benefit these pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.242.8 ( talk) 09:52, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I also added the bit where it says "commanded by Agrippa" I think it's important this is here. Until recently I was under the impression that Augustus personally led the fleet battle at Actium. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.242.8 ( talk) 07:12, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I noticed that there have been some recent edits regarding the emperor's second name. It now states that when adopted by Gaius Julius Caesar, his name became the same thing. I understand this, but Augustus by Anthony Everett, a recent biography, states that he also took the cognomen Octavianus. It also says later in the article that there is no evidence that Augustus ever went by the name Octavianus. This is where I am confused.
In short, was Everett wrong when he stated that Augustus used Octavianus as a cognomen? And why, then, is Octavian such a popular Anglicised version of his name at that period if he didn't use a name it could have descended from?
P.S. Sorry the name of this section is so similar to the previous one, but seeing as they have different subjects, I didn't feel like it was such a remarkable deal. -- 70.108.158.250 ( talk) 16:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Contrary to what Everett says, Augustus never used the name himself. He was, officially C. Octavius Thurinus, then C. Julius Caesar, then C. Julius Caesar Augustus. To quote from pp.21 of Augustus by Patricia Southern (a more academic work than Everett's): "it was only when he arrived in Italy that Octavius learned of his adoption, which entitled him, if he so wished, to style himself C. Julius Caesar Octavianus. This combination of names followed the customary Roman fashion, indicating that Octavius had been adopted into the family of the Iulii Caesares from his original family of the Octavii. But Octavius completely ignored the last of these names, laying great emphasis from the very beginning upon his connection with C. Julius Caesar. He immediately began to style himself as such... Thus 'Octavianus' was never used by the young man himself, and in fact he would have taken exception to it. But the name is so deeply embedded in modern consciousness that it seems mere pedantry to insist on the use of any other. The name 'Octavian' has the advantage of distinguishing the first Augustus from the original C. Julius Caesar". Catiline63 ( talk) 10:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your response to my concern. I will have to check out Patricia Southern. 70.108.158.250 ( talk) 00:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Since people keep changing this to 76, perhaps a quotation from Seutonius might help (my bold):
100. He expired in the same room in which his father Octavius had died, when the two Sextus's, Pompey and Apuleius, were consuls, upon the fourteenth of the calends of September [the 19th August], at the ninth hour of the day, being seventy-six years of age, wanting only thirty-five days. [1]
In other words, he was 75. Remember that there was no year "0". ðarkun coll 17:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
This is Ronald Syme's phrase from 1939, explicitly comparing Augustus to Lenin, Mussolini, and Hitler. If we are going to use it at all, we should use it correctly, not rely upon a mealy-mouthed translated textbook.
Augustus sacrificed (up to 300 of) the senate and equites of the city of Perusia, an allied state. Half of this is more of Eck's waffling - people "executed at an altar" are sacrificed (to the god Divus Julius, not to Caesar's manes); half of this is reliance on an single poor source.
No claim sourced solely to Eck can be relied on, if these two are wrong. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:13, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi PManderson. Nice to see you again, and that you still care about the article! I think I have a simple solution for this problem involving Eck's terminology. One part of that article section is exclusively focused on the senatorial proscriptions; the other is about the conflict in Greece followed by the splitting of Rome's territory between the three triumvirs, Antony, Lepidus, and Octavian. How about I remove the sentence referring to this event as a "revolution," rename one half of the section as "proscriptions," and the other as "Battle of Philippi and division of territory"? Does that sound sensible enough? Or perhaps you have a better suggestion than mine (i.e. names for a new subsection or, plural, subsections. But no more than two subsections; there are only three paragraphs to deal with here, after all). Regards.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 22:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Now here is an interesting quote from p 19 of:
Scott, Kenneth. "The Political Propaganda of 44-30 B.C." Memoirs of the American Academy in Rome, Vol. 11, (1933), pp. 7-49.
Cruelty during the proscriptions and responsibility for them must have been a two-edged sword in the propoganda of the Actian War, and doubtless Octavian had to face charges on these scores during the Perusine and Sicilian Wars as well. The testimony of our sources varies somewhat as to the degree of responsibility attaching to Octavian. As would be expected, VELLEIUS exculpates Octavian. He lays at the door of Antony and Lepidus the responsibility for the renewal of the horror of Sulla's proscription and represents Octavian as protesting to no avail and as outvoted by his two colleagues. And again VELLEIUS shifts the responsibility of the proscriptions upon Antony when he remarks that the proscription was begun with the blood of the tribune and practically ended with the death of Cicero, as though Antony had now become sated. In PLUTARCH the picture is one of a cold-blooded trading of friends and relatives in order to wreak vengeance upon enemies. Thus Octavian is said to have surrendered Cicero to Antony, while Antony in turn gave up Lucius Caesar, his maternal uncle, to Octavian. At the same time Lepidus apparently surrendered his brother Paulus to the wrath of his colleagues.
Dio takes much the same stand as as VELLEIUS, for he points out that Antony and Lepidus in the course of their long public career had made many enemies, while Octavian was too youthful to have grounds for hating people. Moreover, he was naturally mild, as was shown by his refraining from severe measures after he no longer ruled jointly with his colleagues. During the proscription he is credited with saving many people and punishing or rewarding slaves as they had respectively betrayed or helped their masters; in short DIO describes Octavian as trying to save as many as possible, Lepidus as being inexorable, and Antony as slaying savagely and without mercy.
pp. 19-20 now:
SUETONIUS' account, as often, seems to be colored here by Antonian propaganda or pro-Antonian sources: "Octavian administered for ten years the office of triumvir rei publicae constituendae, in the tenure of which he for some time indeed opposed his colleagues in their desire to carry out a proscription, but when it was once under way he executed it with greater severity than either of the others. For although they often could be influenced on behalf of many by prestige and supplications, he alone stoutly maintained that no one should be spared, and even proscribed C. Toranius, his tutor, who had been a colleague of his father in the aedileship. . .APPIAN makes it quite clear that Octavian had scores to pay just as did Antony and Lepidus.'
And Scott continues with descriptions of other senators and officials targeted by either faction. It seems that many prominent Romans (Cicero already mentioned in the article) were targeted and killed, some of them very close or even family members to one of the triumvirs. I have to be honest when I say that I am very confused about this fixation on Perusia; obviously all of those proscribed did not come from Perusia. In any case, I will mention in the article that the primary sources have conflicting accounts about the proscriptions, but all seem to agree that at least each triumvir, to different extents, had blood on his hands and used the proscriptions as a means to eliminate political enemies and seek vengeance against the other triumvirs. -- Pericles of Athens Talk 00:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I'm curious as to why this FA article of Augustus has to have the ugly tag of factual accuracy is disputed. at the top of the article? If only some portion of the article has been disputed, I'd like to remove the tag, and then put a small section template to pertinent section(s) because the tag serious raises a concern over the credibility of the article itself. If the concern would not be resolved any time soon, I guess this article could not avoid FA delisting, so please give some good and short summary on the dispute. Thanks. -- Caspian blue 07:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Although Augustus's full name changed a lot throughout his life, I do believe he ended up legally changing his name to Imperator Caesar Augustus, so shouldn't this be the name first listed at the beginning of the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.213.16 ( talk) 23:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
I read elsewhere on Wikipedia that it is noted that there was held a census of the population of the Roman empire at the death of Augustus. Of obvious reasons I wonder how many censuses which are recorded from the period of his reign? And I think that is informations worthy of entry into the article. -- Xact ( talk) 03:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Why were his Imperial names removed? Imperator Caesar Divi filius Augustus, and the names that gave origin to this final form? Dgarq ( talk) 19:01, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
The text provides Augustus' burial place, but don't provide your house as an emperor. Can anyone tell me what was the residence of Roman Caesars? NandO talk! 21:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Augusto_30aC_-_6dC_55%25CS_jpg.JPG
This map is wrong,especially where Vistula Veneti and Slavi are located.Vistula Veneti should be close to Vistula and Slavi needs to be at the Dnjester,Borysthenes... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.173.237 ( talk) 06:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
What's the point of writing his "Latin name" as "IMPERATOR·CAESAR·DIVI·FILIVS·AVGVSTVS"? It's not like we are transcribing his name from a different alphabet; we use the same one they did. The capital letters and interpuncts may have been necessary for an inscription on a stone monument, but not here. This gives the impression that Latin commonly wrote names that way, and that this is an actual name rather than a combination of names and titles. I've seen it on some other Roman articles as well, but most don't have the name written like that. Adam Bishop ( talk) 17:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree, and would support it's deletion. It's titulature, not nomenclature. Catiline63 ( talk) 11:54, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
REPLY TO ABOVE: Latin was NOT written in lower case, ever; and there were NO CURSIVE writing as well! To think that there were lowercase and cursive letters in ancient Rome clearly shows that you are using modern-day conventions as logic, when you should be thinking in ways that were actually used by the Romans; the two languages (Latin and Englis) are completely different! Only now in the modern-days is Latin put into lowercase lettering - because English has lowercase. If it were to be written as it actually was, then it WOULD BE WRITTEN in all uppercase. The Romans only wrote in uppercase letter, using V's instead of U's. If in doubt of this, take Latin. When writing a Latin name, it is correct to write it as it was truly written; and how it was acknowledged in ancient days by the Roman people. As a page that someone would use for research or quick study, it is important to use CORRECT writing and syntax from the actual civilization, people, and language. To say that one should not use the Roman letters as the Romans themselves did is an error of great proportion! The Roman/Latin alphabet is being used to reflect Augustus' true name, in the context of the Latin language and the Roman way of writing AND saying a person's name. It would be wise to educate yourself before trying to complain or change something that has been written. Would you say to change the written name, the actuality of its representation, into English if this were a Spanish person's name or the name of someone that was Greek or Russian - and they used the Spanish, Greek, or Russian alphabet/letters?? You should RESPECT the integrity of the nationality and want to learn more about the person as they were known and stop being all about the lazy way of learning - only thinking of the "English" way rather than to acknowledge the ways of the "others" of the world.
In answer to Gx872op: As well as the issue of font (see Adam Bishop), the problem is also one of consistency with other articles. All other articles on Romans (including emperors) limit themselves to the familiar tria nomina and (for Republican personalities) victory cognomina. Thus for example
Tiberius is not given as TIBERIVS CAESAR DIVI AVGVSTI FILIVS AVGVSTVS PONTIFEX MAXIMVS TRIBVNICIAE POTESTATIS XXXVIII IMPERATOR VIII CONSVL V (his official name at death) (nor as the simplified TIBERIVS CAESAR DIVI AVGVSTI FILIVS AVGVSTVS) but simply as Tiberius Claudius Nero (birth name), Tiberius Julius Caesar (adoptive name), and Tiberius Julius Caesar Augustus (as emperor). Nor is Cicero given as MARCVS TVLLIVS MARCI FILIVS MARCI NEPOS CORNELIA TRIBV CICERO IMPERATOR PATER PATRIAE - why leave full filiation and tribe membership out? - but by the familiar form. The question is, why is an exception here made for Augustus?
Catiline63 (
talk)
16:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi Gx872op. You write: "Augustus is a former featured article" ??? No, it's not. It is a current featured article, not a former one. I hope this was just a slip of the tongue (or rather, the keyboard). I nominated it and got it passed as a FA on August 31, 2007, and it has not yet had a featured article review to decide whether or not it still deserves this status. As for the Latin name, I for one would not mind keeping "IMPERATOR·CAESAR·DIVI·FILIVS·AVGVSTVS", but as long as we're going to discuss this, we should probably have an up-or-down vote, since the merits of either side have already been presented. Shall we?-- Pericles of Athens Talk 01:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Support - I not sure I agreed with a single argument opposing it. It only adds understanding and value to the article by keeping it. Augustun84 ( talk) 05:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Under Rise to power / Heir to Caesar:
This was due to his "inflammatory" eulogy given at Caesar's funeral. . .
Why is "inflammatory" in quotes? If it's a POV issue, then the word should be omitted. If Antonius' eulogy was objectively inflammatory, then the quotes are unnecessary.
There is no mention of one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.181.20.142 ( talk) 22:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
Can someone please explain in the article how Octavian was adopted posthumously by Julius Caesar? Was it in Caesar's will that Octavian be adopted or did Octavian simply declare himself to have been adopted once he was made ruler? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.165.90.6 ( talk) 17:47, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Octavius was adopted via Caesar's will which he gave to the Vestal Virgins after his return from Gaul because he was so impressed with Octavian's prowess and ability to reach him after all that had happened on Octavian's trip to his uncle. - Sam —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
64.106.113.84 (
talk)
23:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
-This temple is located in Vienne (not Vienna) in France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienne,_Is%C3%A8re —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.228.12 ( talk) 13:02, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
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Please edit account of deaths of Mark Antony and Cleopatra - see Stacy Schiff's 'Cleopatra' for more accurate history. Mark Antony killed himself, but was not in Cleopatra's presence, and Cleopatra killed herself more than one week later, almost certainly not by a snake, but by poison.
174.102.221.171 ( talk) 01:05, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
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In the section descendants 1.D.I. (Nero Julius Caesar) links to Nero Ceasar which redirects to Nero the Emperor. This is a different person (1.D.V.a. in the list, Nero Claudius Caesar). Can someone change Nero Caesar|Nero Julius Caesar to Nero (son of Germanicus)|Nero Julius Caesar? Thanks in advance!
DutchHoratius ( talk) 14:22, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Done Thank you for noticing this.
Puffin
Let's talk!
10:39, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
needs better referencing plange 04:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Following his formal adoption by Julius Caesar wouldn't Octavian have been known to his contempories as "Julius Caesar the younger"? AT Kunene ( talk) 06:35, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
I presume there is some technically correct Latin going on here with regards to the constant change in his name between Octavian and Octavius. But as a humble reader (rather than a Latin purist / scholar / student) it is very confusing. Perhaps the argument has been held elsewhere about the way to handle this, but wouldn't it make more sense in an English language article to use one common "name" for him? Sorry for what might sound like a dumb question, but as I've come here from the main page, I guess I might represent a portion of the readership today which otherwise hasn't read the article. Larkim ( talk) 10:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
"His name was Caius Octavius until he was adopted by Caesar; under the rules of adoptive names, his name then changed to Caius Julius Caesar Octavianus. Octavian is the usual English rendering of Octavianus." 66.66.149.221 ( talk) 22:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
No problems with the article about Octavian-Augustus, about whom I know quite a lot. But one factor of the way it is featured on the front page is seriously misleading. The feature says he "inherited the throne" from Julius Caesar,his uncle in 44BC. This is incorrect: there was no Roman throne to inherit, there was no Roman position of king or emperor. Even in later years Octavian-Augustus was very circumspect about any such title, and respected the theoretically dominant status of the Senate. The article itself says clearly that Octavian-Augustus gained his inheritance. I don't know how to edit the front page but I wish someone would. Benyon3 ( talk) 10:53, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
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Add to the bibliography: K. Galinsky, Augustus: Introduction to the Life of an Emperor (Cambridge 2012) CaesarDF ( talk) 19:16, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
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Add to bibliography or Further Reading: Galinsky, Karl, Augustus: Introduction to the Life of an Emperor (Cambbridge 2012), paperback ISBN 9780521744423 CaesarDF ( talk) 19:31, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Just because he didn't use the name doesn't mean it wasn't his. I'd like to see the name restored.
". . .and assumed the name Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus. To capitalize on the magic of his adoptive father's name, he always called himself Caesar, as do most of the ancient sources." (Allen M.Ward, Fritz M. Heichelheim, and Cedric A. Yeo. A History of the Roman People, 5th Ed. (Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall, 2010), 216.) Also, p. 447 here and pp. li, 46, note 151 here.
Yopienso ( talk) 03:33, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
For "called", read "named". The "superior source... already given" is Patricia Southern's autobiography, cited above (in the discussion headed 'Octavianus'). I referred to this discussion when I edited the article back a couple of weeks ago. The article currently quite clearly says that "Octavianus" was part of the young Caesar's nomenclature. Southern and Shackleton Bailey, who directly address the issue of his adoptive name, say that their is no proof that he bore "Octavianus". This uncertainty should be reflected - as it has been for the past couple of years, before the current edits were made. Catiline63 ( talk) 16:42, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
The caveats to the use of 'Octavian(us)' were in the article - twice - before you made your edits. Indeed one is still there. That Southern (and others) use 'Octavian' for the sake of convenience has never been an issue, and is acknowledged in the article. The sticking point is presenting it as a name he bore officially - which is by no means certain. In this regard what others called him is immaterial - C. Julius Caesar Germanicus never bore the name 'Caligula', but he was called it by contemporaries and by historians. Likewise while contemporaries and historians may call C. Julius Caesar the younger 'Octavianus', there's nothing to allow us to conclude that he ever bore the name. Thus the vagueries of Roman onomastics. Catiline63 ( talk) 10:46, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
In response to Catiline63 above, I agree that you cannot rely on the tradition naming conventions to justify the inclusion of the name Octavianus to Augustus' post adoption name. However, I don't think it is immaterial what his contemporaries called him. In fact, the only contemporary extant source, Cicero, although in his letters to Octavianus would refer to him as "Caesar", also refers to him as plain Octavianus on a number of occasions in his letters to Atticus. More tellingly, in his letter to Cornificius, a supporter of the young Caesar, Cicero refers to him as "Caesar Octavianus". Certainly I would think that is sufficient to lend credence that he was styled as CAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR OCTAVIANVS for at least the very early period immediately after his adoption, perhaps from 44 to 43 BC. I don't think it continued after the period of the proscriptions. However, I freely admit that my argument is very much under the banner of WP:OR! Oatley2112 ( talk) 22:17, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
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To fix the Wikilink to File:Jean-Léon Gérôme - The Death of Caesar - Walters 37884.jpg in Augustus#Heir to Caesar; there's an extra full stop giving a very minor layout problem. 217.155.32.221 ( talk) 16:15, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
People keep changing Augustus' age at death from the correct figure, 75, to either 76 or, in the latest case, 77. He was born in September 63 BC and died in August AD 14. Adding 63 to 14 gives 77, but from this we have to subtract 1 since he died before his birthday in his last year, and another 1, because there was no "year zero" between 1 BC and AD 1 (see 0 (year)). His age, therefore, was 75. If anyone still doubts this, they have only to consult Suetonius. In Augustus, Ch. 100, he states quite explicitly:
He died in the same room as his father Octavius, in the consulship of two Sextuses, Pompeius and Appuleius, on the fourteenth day before the Kalends of September at the ninth hour, just thirty-five days before his seventy-sixth birthday. [4] ðarkun coll 10:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
On 19 August AD 14, Augustus died while visiting the place of his birth father's death at Nola
122.150.64.245 ( talk) 12:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Uh, this means that he was adopted by Caesar after his death... Caesar died before Augustus. It is a bit hard to understand how Caesar could take actions after his own death. And since Caesar died before Augustus, it would appear that Caesar did not adopt Augustus after Augustus' death. This needs some clarification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.98.19.140 ( talk) 22:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Anyone else think the introduction is too long? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.47.111 ( talk) 13:08, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
A quote from Tacitus says that Anthony's self-indulgence "got the better of him." I nearly changed this as being unencyclopedic but decided to refrain since it was within quotes. Obviously the translator from took some liberties, as the best ones do, when translating, since this is most likely does not translate literally from the Latin. Bringing up a larger point for all articles - when must an editor accept a tranlated statement? When may s/he do her/his own translation? Student7 ( talk) 12:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Nice! I knew all that hard work would pay off. You better be thanking me from above Augustus. Lol. On second thought, he'd probably have me cut down by his praetorians for adding criticism about him in the article. :P Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 03:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
While it seems like a pain, prompt warning of vandals on their page tends to discourage 80% of them, particularly the ones who have just started. It is worth the time. Student7 ( talk) 11:30, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
What does a deletion of the article contents actually bring anyone? Admins might have to think about people doind that but, on the other hand, why would (and is) people so stupid to want admins to half-protect articles only for them not to be able to delete their information. If they are not even half-protected, what is the achievement then? 134.60.10.143 ( talk) 14:32, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Some clown inserted a racial slur at the end of the paragraph on Augustus's early life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.29.176.83 ( talk) 16:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
In the Early life Section, there is the following sentence: "Philippus never had much of an interest in young Octavius. Because of this, Octavius was raised by his grandmother (and Julius Caesar's sister), Julia Caesaris."
However, in the Main article: Augustus' Early life (link on the page) and in the Main article about Lucius Marcius Philippus (link on the page) the following sentence can be read: "Philippus cherished his new step-children as if they were his own."
Both statements seem to contradict each other. I suggest that some expert check the sources and decides where Philipus cherished or ignored Octavius!!!
Aeneas10 (
talk)
12:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC) You are right in sayin that these statements directly contradict each other and that is one of the greatest problems with ancient historical texts. It is because one of the ancient sources says the one thing and another the other. Such is the unreliability of virtually all Roman texts.
In the article, it says, "An astrologer had given a warning to his father. However, his father decided to keep the child despite the warning (rather than leave the child in the open to be eaten by dogs)." Does anyone know what the warning was? It was something to the effect like, "he will murder the father to marry the mother," like Oedipus, then I can see it being at least something that is note worthy. But to have the warning not mentioned, and his father ignoring it, seems to be extraneous and not adding to the value of this article. I can't find a reference to this "warning" and there is none listed. Can anyone verify this, and if so, say what the warning entailed? These two sentences seem so out of place.-- 69.27.229.11 ( talk) 17:30, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Aeneas10 ( talk) 19:28, 3 March 2009 (UTC)Cassius Dio 45.1 states that Octavian's father wanted to have him destroyed, because he was prophesied to one day wield absolute power- an idea anathema to Romans at that point. Almost certainly this story was created retrospectively, as a lot of pre and early natal legends, of great men in this age, were.
Under the "Early Life" section, it states, "Octavian only mentions his father's equestrian family briefly in his memoirs". This statement seems to imply that Octavian's father was a member of the aristocratic equestrian order. However, the following paragraph contradicts that by stating, "Since Octavius' father was a plebeian, Octavius himself was a plebeian". One of those statements has to be incorrect. Octavian's father could not have been both an equestrian and a plebeian. The equestrian order and the plebeian class were two separate entities. Equestrians were knights and occupied the lower ranks of the aristocracy whereas plebeians were commoners and made up the lower class of Roman society. -- 76.89.202.43 ( talk) 23:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Also, Atia Balba was a plebeian, not a patrician, as she was the daughter of the sister of G Julius Caesar Dictator. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
193.63.184.1 (
talk)
16:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I think I added the physical appearance portion months ago but I didn't reference it. I'm happy to see that it's now referenced and left in. I also added some of the physical appearance sections on the other 12 emperors pages from Suetonis's work. Because there is only flattering busts and coin profiles I think the first hand seeminglu impartial descriptions really benefit these pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.242.8 ( talk) 09:52, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I also added the bit where it says "commanded by Agrippa" I think it's important this is here. Until recently I was under the impression that Augustus personally led the fleet battle at Actium. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.242.8 ( talk) 07:12, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I noticed that there have been some recent edits regarding the emperor's second name. It now states that when adopted by Gaius Julius Caesar, his name became the same thing. I understand this, but Augustus by Anthony Everett, a recent biography, states that he also took the cognomen Octavianus. It also says later in the article that there is no evidence that Augustus ever went by the name Octavianus. This is where I am confused.
In short, was Everett wrong when he stated that Augustus used Octavianus as a cognomen? And why, then, is Octavian such a popular Anglicised version of his name at that period if he didn't use a name it could have descended from?
P.S. Sorry the name of this section is so similar to the previous one, but seeing as they have different subjects, I didn't feel like it was such a remarkable deal. -- 70.108.158.250 ( talk) 16:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Contrary to what Everett says, Augustus never used the name himself. He was, officially C. Octavius Thurinus, then C. Julius Caesar, then C. Julius Caesar Augustus. To quote from pp.21 of Augustus by Patricia Southern (a more academic work than Everett's): "it was only when he arrived in Italy that Octavius learned of his adoption, which entitled him, if he so wished, to style himself C. Julius Caesar Octavianus. This combination of names followed the customary Roman fashion, indicating that Octavius had been adopted into the family of the Iulii Caesares from his original family of the Octavii. But Octavius completely ignored the last of these names, laying great emphasis from the very beginning upon his connection with C. Julius Caesar. He immediately began to style himself as such... Thus 'Octavianus' was never used by the young man himself, and in fact he would have taken exception to it. But the name is so deeply embedded in modern consciousness that it seems mere pedantry to insist on the use of any other. The name 'Octavian' has the advantage of distinguishing the first Augustus from the original C. Julius Caesar". Catiline63 ( talk) 10:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your response to my concern. I will have to check out Patricia Southern. 70.108.158.250 ( talk) 00:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Since people keep changing this to 76, perhaps a quotation from Seutonius might help (my bold):
100. He expired in the same room in which his father Octavius had died, when the two Sextus's, Pompey and Apuleius, were consuls, upon the fourteenth of the calends of September [the 19th August], at the ninth hour of the day, being seventy-six years of age, wanting only thirty-five days. [1]
In other words, he was 75. Remember that there was no year "0". ðarkun coll 17:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
This is Ronald Syme's phrase from 1939, explicitly comparing Augustus to Lenin, Mussolini, and Hitler. If we are going to use it at all, we should use it correctly, not rely upon a mealy-mouthed translated textbook.
Augustus sacrificed (up to 300 of) the senate and equites of the city of Perusia, an allied state. Half of this is more of Eck's waffling - people "executed at an altar" are sacrificed (to the god Divus Julius, not to Caesar's manes); half of this is reliance on an single poor source.
No claim sourced solely to Eck can be relied on, if these two are wrong. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:13, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi PManderson. Nice to see you again, and that you still care about the article! I think I have a simple solution for this problem involving Eck's terminology. One part of that article section is exclusively focused on the senatorial proscriptions; the other is about the conflict in Greece followed by the splitting of Rome's territory between the three triumvirs, Antony, Lepidus, and Octavian. How about I remove the sentence referring to this event as a "revolution," rename one half of the section as "proscriptions," and the other as "Battle of Philippi and division of territory"? Does that sound sensible enough? Or perhaps you have a better suggestion than mine (i.e. names for a new subsection or, plural, subsections. But no more than two subsections; there are only three paragraphs to deal with here, after all). Regards.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 22:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Now here is an interesting quote from p 19 of:
Scott, Kenneth. "The Political Propaganda of 44-30 B.C." Memoirs of the American Academy in Rome, Vol. 11, (1933), pp. 7-49.
Cruelty during the proscriptions and responsibility for them must have been a two-edged sword in the propoganda of the Actian War, and doubtless Octavian had to face charges on these scores during the Perusine and Sicilian Wars as well. The testimony of our sources varies somewhat as to the degree of responsibility attaching to Octavian. As would be expected, VELLEIUS exculpates Octavian. He lays at the door of Antony and Lepidus the responsibility for the renewal of the horror of Sulla's proscription and represents Octavian as protesting to no avail and as outvoted by his two colleagues. And again VELLEIUS shifts the responsibility of the proscriptions upon Antony when he remarks that the proscription was begun with the blood of the tribune and practically ended with the death of Cicero, as though Antony had now become sated. In PLUTARCH the picture is one of a cold-blooded trading of friends and relatives in order to wreak vengeance upon enemies. Thus Octavian is said to have surrendered Cicero to Antony, while Antony in turn gave up Lucius Caesar, his maternal uncle, to Octavian. At the same time Lepidus apparently surrendered his brother Paulus to the wrath of his colleagues.
Dio takes much the same stand as as VELLEIUS, for he points out that Antony and Lepidus in the course of their long public career had made many enemies, while Octavian was too youthful to have grounds for hating people. Moreover, he was naturally mild, as was shown by his refraining from severe measures after he no longer ruled jointly with his colleagues. During the proscription he is credited with saving many people and punishing or rewarding slaves as they had respectively betrayed or helped their masters; in short DIO describes Octavian as trying to save as many as possible, Lepidus as being inexorable, and Antony as slaying savagely and without mercy.
pp. 19-20 now:
SUETONIUS' account, as often, seems to be colored here by Antonian propaganda or pro-Antonian sources: "Octavian administered for ten years the office of triumvir rei publicae constituendae, in the tenure of which he for some time indeed opposed his colleagues in their desire to carry out a proscription, but when it was once under way he executed it with greater severity than either of the others. For although they often could be influenced on behalf of many by prestige and supplications, he alone stoutly maintained that no one should be spared, and even proscribed C. Toranius, his tutor, who had been a colleague of his father in the aedileship. . .APPIAN makes it quite clear that Octavian had scores to pay just as did Antony and Lepidus.'
And Scott continues with descriptions of other senators and officials targeted by either faction. It seems that many prominent Romans (Cicero already mentioned in the article) were targeted and killed, some of them very close or even family members to one of the triumvirs. I have to be honest when I say that I am very confused about this fixation on Perusia; obviously all of those proscribed did not come from Perusia. In any case, I will mention in the article that the primary sources have conflicting accounts about the proscriptions, but all seem to agree that at least each triumvir, to different extents, had blood on his hands and used the proscriptions as a means to eliminate political enemies and seek vengeance against the other triumvirs. -- Pericles of Athens Talk 00:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I'm curious as to why this FA article of Augustus has to have the ugly tag of factual accuracy is disputed. at the top of the article? If only some portion of the article has been disputed, I'd like to remove the tag, and then put a small section template to pertinent section(s) because the tag serious raises a concern over the credibility of the article itself. If the concern would not be resolved any time soon, I guess this article could not avoid FA delisting, so please give some good and short summary on the dispute. Thanks. -- Caspian blue 07:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Although Augustus's full name changed a lot throughout his life, I do believe he ended up legally changing his name to Imperator Caesar Augustus, so shouldn't this be the name first listed at the beginning of the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.213.16 ( talk) 23:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
I read elsewhere on Wikipedia that it is noted that there was held a census of the population of the Roman empire at the death of Augustus. Of obvious reasons I wonder how many censuses which are recorded from the period of his reign? And I think that is informations worthy of entry into the article. -- Xact ( talk) 03:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Why were his Imperial names removed? Imperator Caesar Divi filius Augustus, and the names that gave origin to this final form? Dgarq ( talk) 19:01, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
The text provides Augustus' burial place, but don't provide your house as an emperor. Can anyone tell me what was the residence of Roman Caesars? NandO talk! 21:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Augusto_30aC_-_6dC_55%25CS_jpg.JPG
This map is wrong,especially where Vistula Veneti and Slavi are located.Vistula Veneti should be close to Vistula and Slavi needs to be at the Dnjester,Borysthenes... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.173.237 ( talk) 06:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
What's the point of writing his "Latin name" as "IMPERATOR·CAESAR·DIVI·FILIVS·AVGVSTVS"? It's not like we are transcribing his name from a different alphabet; we use the same one they did. The capital letters and interpuncts may have been necessary for an inscription on a stone monument, but not here. This gives the impression that Latin commonly wrote names that way, and that this is an actual name rather than a combination of names and titles. I've seen it on some other Roman articles as well, but most don't have the name written like that. Adam Bishop ( talk) 17:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree, and would support it's deletion. It's titulature, not nomenclature. Catiline63 ( talk) 11:54, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
REPLY TO ABOVE: Latin was NOT written in lower case, ever; and there were NO CURSIVE writing as well! To think that there were lowercase and cursive letters in ancient Rome clearly shows that you are using modern-day conventions as logic, when you should be thinking in ways that were actually used by the Romans; the two languages (Latin and Englis) are completely different! Only now in the modern-days is Latin put into lowercase lettering - because English has lowercase. If it were to be written as it actually was, then it WOULD BE WRITTEN in all uppercase. The Romans only wrote in uppercase letter, using V's instead of U's. If in doubt of this, take Latin. When writing a Latin name, it is correct to write it as it was truly written; and how it was acknowledged in ancient days by the Roman people. As a page that someone would use for research or quick study, it is important to use CORRECT writing and syntax from the actual civilization, people, and language. To say that one should not use the Roman letters as the Romans themselves did is an error of great proportion! The Roman/Latin alphabet is being used to reflect Augustus' true name, in the context of the Latin language and the Roman way of writing AND saying a person's name. It would be wise to educate yourself before trying to complain or change something that has been written. Would you say to change the written name, the actuality of its representation, into English if this were a Spanish person's name or the name of someone that was Greek or Russian - and they used the Spanish, Greek, or Russian alphabet/letters?? You should RESPECT the integrity of the nationality and want to learn more about the person as they were known and stop being all about the lazy way of learning - only thinking of the "English" way rather than to acknowledge the ways of the "others" of the world.
In answer to Gx872op: As well as the issue of font (see Adam Bishop), the problem is also one of consistency with other articles. All other articles on Romans (including emperors) limit themselves to the familiar tria nomina and (for Republican personalities) victory cognomina. Thus for example
Tiberius is not given as TIBERIVS CAESAR DIVI AVGVSTI FILIVS AVGVSTVS PONTIFEX MAXIMVS TRIBVNICIAE POTESTATIS XXXVIII IMPERATOR VIII CONSVL V (his official name at death) (nor as the simplified TIBERIVS CAESAR DIVI AVGVSTI FILIVS AVGVSTVS) but simply as Tiberius Claudius Nero (birth name), Tiberius Julius Caesar (adoptive name), and Tiberius Julius Caesar Augustus (as emperor). Nor is Cicero given as MARCVS TVLLIVS MARCI FILIVS MARCI NEPOS CORNELIA TRIBV CICERO IMPERATOR PATER PATRIAE - why leave full filiation and tribe membership out? - but by the familiar form. The question is, why is an exception here made for Augustus?
Catiline63 (
talk)
16:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi Gx872op. You write: "Augustus is a former featured article" ??? No, it's not. It is a current featured article, not a former one. I hope this was just a slip of the tongue (or rather, the keyboard). I nominated it and got it passed as a FA on August 31, 2007, and it has not yet had a featured article review to decide whether or not it still deserves this status. As for the Latin name, I for one would not mind keeping "IMPERATOR·CAESAR·DIVI·FILIVS·AVGVSTVS", but as long as we're going to discuss this, we should probably have an up-or-down vote, since the merits of either side have already been presented. Shall we?-- Pericles of Athens Talk 01:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Support - I not sure I agreed with a single argument opposing it. It only adds understanding and value to the article by keeping it. Augustun84 ( talk) 05:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Under Rise to power / Heir to Caesar:
This was due to his "inflammatory" eulogy given at Caesar's funeral. . .
Why is "inflammatory" in quotes? If it's a POV issue, then the word should be omitted. If Antonius' eulogy was objectively inflammatory, then the quotes are unnecessary.
There is no mention of one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.181.20.142 ( talk) 22:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
Can someone please explain in the article how Octavian was adopted posthumously by Julius Caesar? Was it in Caesar's will that Octavian be adopted or did Octavian simply declare himself to have been adopted once he was made ruler? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.165.90.6 ( talk) 17:47, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Octavius was adopted via Caesar's will which he gave to the Vestal Virgins after his return from Gaul because he was so impressed with Octavian's prowess and ability to reach him after all that had happened on Octavian's trip to his uncle. - Sam —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
64.106.113.84 (
talk)
23:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
-This temple is located in Vienne (not Vienna) in France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienne,_Is%C3%A8re —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.228.12 ( talk) 13:02, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
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Please edit account of deaths of Mark Antony and Cleopatra - see Stacy Schiff's 'Cleopatra' for more accurate history. Mark Antony killed himself, but was not in Cleopatra's presence, and Cleopatra killed herself more than one week later, almost certainly not by a snake, but by poison.
174.102.221.171 ( talk) 01:05, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
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In the section descendants 1.D.I. (Nero Julius Caesar) links to Nero Ceasar which redirects to Nero the Emperor. This is a different person (1.D.V.a. in the list, Nero Claudius Caesar). Can someone change Nero Caesar|Nero Julius Caesar to Nero (son of Germanicus)|Nero Julius Caesar? Thanks in advance!
DutchHoratius ( talk) 14:22, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Done Thank you for noticing this.
Puffin
Let's talk!
10:39, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
needs better referencing plange 04:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Following his formal adoption by Julius Caesar wouldn't Octavian have been known to his contempories as "Julius Caesar the younger"? AT Kunene ( talk) 06:35, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
I presume there is some technically correct Latin going on here with regards to the constant change in his name between Octavian and Octavius. But as a humble reader (rather than a Latin purist / scholar / student) it is very confusing. Perhaps the argument has been held elsewhere about the way to handle this, but wouldn't it make more sense in an English language article to use one common "name" for him? Sorry for what might sound like a dumb question, but as I've come here from the main page, I guess I might represent a portion of the readership today which otherwise hasn't read the article. Larkim ( talk) 10:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
"His name was Caius Octavius until he was adopted by Caesar; under the rules of adoptive names, his name then changed to Caius Julius Caesar Octavianus. Octavian is the usual English rendering of Octavianus." 66.66.149.221 ( talk) 22:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
No problems with the article about Octavian-Augustus, about whom I know quite a lot. But one factor of the way it is featured on the front page is seriously misleading. The feature says he "inherited the throne" from Julius Caesar,his uncle in 44BC. This is incorrect: there was no Roman throne to inherit, there was no Roman position of king or emperor. Even in later years Octavian-Augustus was very circumspect about any such title, and respected the theoretically dominant status of the Senate. The article itself says clearly that Octavian-Augustus gained his inheritance. I don't know how to edit the front page but I wish someone would. Benyon3 ( talk) 10:53, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
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Add to the bibliography: K. Galinsky, Augustus: Introduction to the Life of an Emperor (Cambridge 2012) CaesarDF ( talk) 19:16, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
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Add to bibliography or Further Reading: Galinsky, Karl, Augustus: Introduction to the Life of an Emperor (Cambbridge 2012), paperback ISBN 9780521744423 CaesarDF ( talk) 19:31, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Just because he didn't use the name doesn't mean it wasn't his. I'd like to see the name restored.
". . .and assumed the name Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus. To capitalize on the magic of his adoptive father's name, he always called himself Caesar, as do most of the ancient sources." (Allen M.Ward, Fritz M. Heichelheim, and Cedric A. Yeo. A History of the Roman People, 5th Ed. (Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall, 2010), 216.) Also, p. 447 here and pp. li, 46, note 151 here.
Yopienso ( talk) 03:33, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
For "called", read "named". The "superior source... already given" is Patricia Southern's autobiography, cited above (in the discussion headed 'Octavianus'). I referred to this discussion when I edited the article back a couple of weeks ago. The article currently quite clearly says that "Octavianus" was part of the young Caesar's nomenclature. Southern and Shackleton Bailey, who directly address the issue of his adoptive name, say that their is no proof that he bore "Octavianus". This uncertainty should be reflected - as it has been for the past couple of years, before the current edits were made. Catiline63 ( talk) 16:42, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
The caveats to the use of 'Octavian(us)' were in the article - twice - before you made your edits. Indeed one is still there. That Southern (and others) use 'Octavian' for the sake of convenience has never been an issue, and is acknowledged in the article. The sticking point is presenting it as a name he bore officially - which is by no means certain. In this regard what others called him is immaterial - C. Julius Caesar Germanicus never bore the name 'Caligula', but he was called it by contemporaries and by historians. Likewise while contemporaries and historians may call C. Julius Caesar the younger 'Octavianus', there's nothing to allow us to conclude that he ever bore the name. Thus the vagueries of Roman onomastics. Catiline63 ( talk) 10:46, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
In response to Catiline63 above, I agree that you cannot rely on the tradition naming conventions to justify the inclusion of the name Octavianus to Augustus' post adoption name. However, I don't think it is immaterial what his contemporaries called him. In fact, the only contemporary extant source, Cicero, although in his letters to Octavianus would refer to him as "Caesar", also refers to him as plain Octavianus on a number of occasions in his letters to Atticus. More tellingly, in his letter to Cornificius, a supporter of the young Caesar, Cicero refers to him as "Caesar Octavianus". Certainly I would think that is sufficient to lend credence that he was styled as CAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR OCTAVIANVS for at least the very early period immediately after his adoption, perhaps from 44 to 43 BC. I don't think it continued after the period of the proscriptions. However, I freely admit that my argument is very much under the banner of WP:OR! Oatley2112 ( talk) 22:17, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
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To fix the Wikilink to File:Jean-Léon Gérôme - The Death of Caesar - Walters 37884.jpg in Augustus#Heir to Caesar; there's an extra full stop giving a very minor layout problem. 217.155.32.221 ( talk) 16:15, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
People keep changing Augustus' age at death from the correct figure, 75, to either 76 or, in the latest case, 77. He was born in September 63 BC and died in August AD 14. Adding 63 to 14 gives 77, but from this we have to subtract 1 since he died before his birthday in his last year, and another 1, because there was no "year zero" between 1 BC and AD 1 (see 0 (year)). His age, therefore, was 75. If anyone still doubts this, they have only to consult Suetonius. In Augustus, Ch. 100, he states quite explicitly:
He died in the same room as his father Octavius, in the consulship of two Sextuses, Pompeius and Appuleius, on the fourteenth day before the Kalends of September at the ninth hour, just thirty-five days before his seventy-sixth birthday. [4] ðarkun coll 10:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
On 19 August AD 14, Augustus died while visiting the place of his birth father's death at Nola
122.150.64.245 ( talk) 12:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Uh, this means that he was adopted by Caesar after his death... Caesar died before Augustus. It is a bit hard to understand how Caesar could take actions after his own death. And since Caesar died before Augustus, it would appear that Caesar did not adopt Augustus after Augustus' death. This needs some clarification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.98.19.140 ( talk) 22:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Anyone else think the introduction is too long? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.47.111 ( talk) 13:08, 21 December 2009 (UTC)