This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Audrey Hollander article. This is
not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article was nominated for
deletion on 26 September 2005. The result of
the discussion was keep.
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the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PornographyWikipedia:WikiProject PornographyTemplate:WikiProject PornographyPornography articles
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Birth year
Re: Her birthday year: According to her entry at mySpace, she's 26 now.
Ronabop 01:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Article mentions nothing about her being a stripper/exotic dancer at Trixie's Gold Room in Louisville, KY. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
74.132.240.242 (
talk)
05:47, 20 August 2010 (UTC)reply
Divorce
Information about Hollander's divorce was re-added with this edit apparently because Hollander's ex-husband Bauer had requested that such information be added on his behalf per this edit sum . I don't think there's essentially anything wrong with adding such information as long as it can be verified by
reliablethird-party sources, but the only
source being provided comes from an interview with Hollender herself which means it's a
primary source and might mean it is not acceptable per
WP:BLPPRIMARY. Also, the source is from an "adult entertainment" website which includes numerous ads and other types of information of a mature nature. Clicking on the page causes adult-theme
popup ads or other material which might to be considered
NSFW and which might possibly contain malware or other malicious scripts. So, I'm not sure if using such a website is acceptable regardless. I am not advocating
censorship, but I am just not sure if such a site is acceptable simply because of all of the extraneous of stuff happening on that website that is unrelated to the actual interview with Hollander.
Finally, the version of the article (see
here) before the divorce information was added the first time with this edit contains no mention of Hollander being married to Bauer at all. Even the current version of the article still makes no mention of Hollander and Bauer being married. Maybe this is something that should be added, but, as long as it isn't, there seems to be no need to add information about the ending of marriage that is not mentioned at all in the first place. I'm sure it's true that Hollander and Bauer were married and are now divorced; however, is that something that received significant coverage in reliable sources that can be verified and thus is worth mentioning in the article. On Wikipedia
verifiability, not truth is what matters, and mentioning something simply because it is true, especially in
biographies of living people, not considered to be a good enough rationale. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
01:45, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Are marriages, and thus divorces, not generally part of a biography of a person? Don't sites such as those for the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal have ads? If we're to remove that source because the ads on it are NSFW, should we also not then remove all references with NSFW images? That would wipe out most of the sources for any article dealing with a pornographic subject. Maybe a perusal of
WP:NOTCENSORED would be good for you, for it includes this sentence: However, some articles may include images, text or links that are relevant to the topic but that some people find objectionable. Emphasis mine.
I'm not advocating censorship at all. Maybe you were editing when I added that clarification. I was just expressing a concern about the popups and other pages that opened when I clicked on the link as possibly containing malicious scripts or malware. If you feel that is not an issue then that is fine with me. Also, I think it's perfectly fine to mention Hollander's divorce. I just seems strange to mention her divorce without mentioning her marriage. Also, I wasn't sure if the source given was acceptable per
WP:BLPPRIMARY. I was just asking questions; I wasn't making any demands at all. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
02:04, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
I guess the lack of any question marks led me to believe that there weren't any questions.
That said, I don't see the problem with using a primary source for something like a divorce. It would be one thing if she were claiming a 180 IQ but it's nothing so extraordinary. Dismas|
(talk)03:36, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
No worries. In my mind, I was asking questions, but in retrospect I can see how I came off as being preachy. Anyway, sorry if my OP was confusing. Good as well for the primary source. Personally, I think the divorce mention would make a little more sense if there was also a mention of Hollander and Bauer being married (perhaps in a separate section titled "Personal life"?) since the only mention of Bauer prior to that is as Hollander's business partner, but if it's not needed than that's fine with me. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
04:09, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
On second thought, the interview never says who she was married to. Just that she became divorced. Therefore, I've removed Bauer's name. Dismas|
(talk)04:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Audrey Hollander article. This is
not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article was nominated for
deletion on 26 September 2005. The result of
the discussion was keep.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pornography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
pornography-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PornographyWikipedia:WikiProject PornographyTemplate:WikiProject PornographyPornography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Chicago, which aims to improve all articles or pages related to
Chicago or the
Chicago metropolitan area.ChicagoWikipedia:WikiProject ChicagoTemplate:WikiProject ChicagoChicago articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
Birth year
Re: Her birthday year: According to her entry at mySpace, she's 26 now.
Ronabop 01:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Article mentions nothing about her being a stripper/exotic dancer at Trixie's Gold Room in Louisville, KY. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
74.132.240.242 (
talk)
05:47, 20 August 2010 (UTC)reply
Divorce
Information about Hollander's divorce was re-added with this edit apparently because Hollander's ex-husband Bauer had requested that such information be added on his behalf per this edit sum . I don't think there's essentially anything wrong with adding such information as long as it can be verified by
reliablethird-party sources, but the only
source being provided comes from an interview with Hollender herself which means it's a
primary source and might mean it is not acceptable per
WP:BLPPRIMARY. Also, the source is from an "adult entertainment" website which includes numerous ads and other types of information of a mature nature. Clicking on the page causes adult-theme
popup ads or other material which might to be considered
NSFW and which might possibly contain malware or other malicious scripts. So, I'm not sure if using such a website is acceptable regardless. I am not advocating
censorship, but I am just not sure if such a site is acceptable simply because of all of the extraneous of stuff happening on that website that is unrelated to the actual interview with Hollander.
Finally, the version of the article (see
here) before the divorce information was added the first time with this edit contains no mention of Hollander being married to Bauer at all. Even the current version of the article still makes no mention of Hollander and Bauer being married. Maybe this is something that should be added, but, as long as it isn't, there seems to be no need to add information about the ending of marriage that is not mentioned at all in the first place. I'm sure it's true that Hollander and Bauer were married and are now divorced; however, is that something that received significant coverage in reliable sources that can be verified and thus is worth mentioning in the article. On Wikipedia
verifiability, not truth is what matters, and mentioning something simply because it is true, especially in
biographies of living people, not considered to be a good enough rationale. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
01:45, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Are marriages, and thus divorces, not generally part of a biography of a person? Don't sites such as those for the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal have ads? If we're to remove that source because the ads on it are NSFW, should we also not then remove all references with NSFW images? That would wipe out most of the sources for any article dealing with a pornographic subject. Maybe a perusal of
WP:NOTCENSORED would be good for you, for it includes this sentence: However, some articles may include images, text or links that are relevant to the topic but that some people find objectionable. Emphasis mine.
I'm not advocating censorship at all. Maybe you were editing when I added that clarification. I was just expressing a concern about the popups and other pages that opened when I clicked on the link as possibly containing malicious scripts or malware. If you feel that is not an issue then that is fine with me. Also, I think it's perfectly fine to mention Hollander's divorce. I just seems strange to mention her divorce without mentioning her marriage. Also, I wasn't sure if the source given was acceptable per
WP:BLPPRIMARY. I was just asking questions; I wasn't making any demands at all. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
02:04, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
I guess the lack of any question marks led me to believe that there weren't any questions.
That said, I don't see the problem with using a primary source for something like a divorce. It would be one thing if she were claiming a 180 IQ but it's nothing so extraordinary. Dismas|
(talk)03:36, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
No worries. In my mind, I was asking questions, but in retrospect I can see how I came off as being preachy. Anyway, sorry if my OP was confusing. Good as well for the primary source. Personally, I think the divorce mention would make a little more sense if there was also a mention of Hollander and Bauer being married (perhaps in a separate section titled "Personal life"?) since the only mention of Bauer prior to that is as Hollander's business partner, but if it's not needed than that's fine with me. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
04:09, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply
On second thought, the interview never says who she was married to. Just that she became divorced. Therefore, I've removed Bauer's name. Dismas|
(talk)04:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)reply