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Archive 1 |
Robert Turcan in his treatment of the myth of Nana and Agdistis's genitals suggests that a pomegranate tree was created instead of an almond tree. To my knowledge, he does not cite the source for his treatment (I do not have the work at hand); could the author of this article please discuss the source for the almond? Thanks. 165.230.177.147 16:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
That's because we have differing accounts of the myth - the one on the page is derived from Pausanias whereas the more commonly used myth is that of Arnobius of Sicca (Adversus Nationes, Book V) in which an almond tree grows from the blood of Agdistis' castration and a Pomegranate Tree grows from the blood of Attis' own castration (remember that there are two consecutive emasculations in the myth of Arnobius) - in either case, the idea here is that Attis is a 'born of a virgin' vegetation god: an anthropomorphism for plants themselves (specifically those with narcotic qualities) - especially when we consider the ecstatic, Thracio-Dionysian nature of the cult.
Here is the Robert Turcan Reference: "Pausanias (VII, 17, 10) tacks on to the Lydian version an account which he ascribes to the local tradition of Pessinus and which corresponds in broad outline to that of Arnobius. The difference lies in a few details (Zeus impregnates the earth while he sleeps, and almond tree and not a pomegranate emerges from the blood of the emasculated Acdestis, Attis does not die of his mutilation) and chiefly, in Pausanias, the Absence of the Great Mother." (Turcan 1996, p. 33)
ArcesseEum ( talk) 12:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm removing the following line: "In his book, Religion of the Occident, Martin A. Larson makes it clear that Attis was an earlier prototype for Christian mythology." Does anyone know about this book, does it talk about Attis, and is it reliable, etc?-- 137.186.170.36 ( talk) 16:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, I can only go by my own anatomy for reference here, so it might count as OR, but... it doesn't look particularly emasculated. All of the expected bits and pieces appear to be in place and intact. What's the dealio? 146.199.0.251 ( talk) 07:10, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Is there a reason for "No connection to the god Atys" displaying first among the sections of the article? I think it would improve readability if that section was moved towards the end. As is, it reads like a non-sequitur that confusingly prefaces the History section. Many of the articles on Wikipedia discussing gods begin with a history/origin section and then descend into scholarly minutia towards the end of the article. Changing the order would bring this article into congruity with articles on similar topics. That said, the current order would be well aligned with other articles if this first section discussed the etymology of "Attis" as well as the misidentification. Perhaps this section could be expanded?
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Robert Turcan in his treatment of the myth of Nana and Agdistis's genitals suggests that a pomegranate tree was created instead of an almond tree. To my knowledge, he does not cite the source for his treatment (I do not have the work at hand); could the author of this article please discuss the source for the almond? Thanks. 165.230.177.147 16:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
That's because we have differing accounts of the myth - the one on the page is derived from Pausanias whereas the more commonly used myth is that of Arnobius of Sicca (Adversus Nationes, Book V) in which an almond tree grows from the blood of Agdistis' castration and a Pomegranate Tree grows from the blood of Attis' own castration (remember that there are two consecutive emasculations in the myth of Arnobius) - in either case, the idea here is that Attis is a 'born of a virgin' vegetation god: an anthropomorphism for plants themselves (specifically those with narcotic qualities) - especially when we consider the ecstatic, Thracio-Dionysian nature of the cult.
Here is the Robert Turcan Reference: "Pausanias (VII, 17, 10) tacks on to the Lydian version an account which he ascribes to the local tradition of Pessinus and which corresponds in broad outline to that of Arnobius. The difference lies in a few details (Zeus impregnates the earth while he sleeps, and almond tree and not a pomegranate emerges from the blood of the emasculated Acdestis, Attis does not die of his mutilation) and chiefly, in Pausanias, the Absence of the Great Mother." (Turcan 1996, p. 33)
ArcesseEum ( talk) 12:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm removing the following line: "In his book, Religion of the Occident, Martin A. Larson makes it clear that Attis was an earlier prototype for Christian mythology." Does anyone know about this book, does it talk about Attis, and is it reliable, etc?-- 137.186.170.36 ( talk) 16:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, I can only go by my own anatomy for reference here, so it might count as OR, but... it doesn't look particularly emasculated. All of the expected bits and pieces appear to be in place and intact. What's the dealio? 146.199.0.251 ( talk) 07:10, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Is there a reason for "No connection to the god Atys" displaying first among the sections of the article? I think it would improve readability if that section was moved towards the end. As is, it reads like a non-sequitur that confusingly prefaces the History section. Many of the articles on Wikipedia discussing gods begin with a history/origin section and then descend into scholarly minutia towards the end of the article. Changing the order would bring this article into congruity with articles on similar topics. That said, the current order would be well aligned with other articles if this first section discussed the etymology of "Attis" as well as the misidentification. Perhaps this section could be expanded?