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Elements of this page appear to have been taken verbatim from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section2.html. At the very least, shouldn't this be properly referenced, or removed if copywritten? Beefcalf 22:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Copywritten ? I think the word is "right", not "write" lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.59.93 ( talk) 14:16, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
--- Is this source really reliable? It appears to be unattributed and links to domain homepages, not actual articles of any substance in its own sources: http://universe-review.ca/F10-multicell.htm "Multi-cell Organisms". Universe-review.ca. Retrieved 2011-09-29. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.113.168.141 ( talk) 01:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
In the examples, it mentions hind legs in dolphins and hind legs in whales. That's redundant. All dolphins are whales. 129.237.90.54 03:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The term 'throwback' is commonly used to describe an incident in which someone who has two parents of one racial identity and yet possesses another, normally due to a genetic malfunction, causing a redundant gene from a long- gone ancestor to crop up again. Could someone please inform me if it's simply that the wrong term has been applied in the cases where I've heard it.
82.14.64.128 16:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Personally I wouldn't call it a malfunction. I don't see blue eyes suddenly emerging in a family a malfunction. Nobody says anything of a family of blondes with a brunette kid.
Some of the atavism stuff doesn't sit right with me. The cetaceans would be atavism if suddenly after a few generations flippers appeared and even then it doesn't work except in the first few flipper pioneers. Nobody considered the side show atavans. Lobster Boy and Seal Boy weren't recapturing crustacean or fish ancestory, they were just deformed. Flippers in the mammal family tree had been out of the picture since pretty far in their classification. The flipper in cetaceans evolved slowly, limbs becoming shorter and webbed and all that jazz until you came across what resembles the modern cetaceans. The horses born with those spare toes, and the babies with tails are great examples, the cetaceans not unless somebody has got a dolphin with legs. A bird with teeth or a snake with legs or a shelless turtle, or maybe somebody with hand like feet and fur would be great.
The two paragraphs at the beginning of the "atavism" section are unacceptable as written. They imply that the idea of atavism is accepted in modern scientific discourse. Either that is false, in which case they should be removed, or it is true, in which case it needs to be properly discussed, defended and documented. I think it's false; I also think this material was inserted as an underhanded way of slipping an essentially racist discourse into the present article. At the very least, this line of thinking should be clearly associated with its source in Hayek so that it will be clearly understood as distinct from the mainstream. I have therefore removed them. Poihths ( talk) 16:21, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
When a new material begins to replace an older one. Say a concrete lintel for the previous wooden one, people often hide this change by disguising the newer with features from the older, putting knotholes in the concrete to make it appear like a wooden lintel. Is this the proper term for this backward looking copying? rmwilliamsjr —Preceding undated comment added 18:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC).
A really interesting topic, but full of uncited material. Some of the claims have been made by WP:RS's and need to be tracked down. Others are wp:OR and need to go. DavidOaks ( talk) 18:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I noticed my addition of information about the "chickensaurus" was deleted. I sourced it, and while experimental it seems legitimate. Can anybody explain why it was taken out?
Jack Horner is working with a team of geneticists to create a "Chickensaurus", that is, a chicken with atavistic traits normally associated with extinct dinosaurs. [1] [2]
— x, x
Sociotard ( talk) 20:32, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Suggestion/Review
This is a very interesting article. It was fascinating to learn about such a phenomenon. I understand that there can be a mutation in the DNA sequence which causes for atavism to take place. However is it possible that if a disease takes place in the population that alters the next 3-4 generations, would atavism take place? 65.60.212.124 ( talk) 04:13, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
References
This entire section reads like a giant un-sourced non-sequitur. Yes, it has all kinds of links to other Wikipedia articles, but are they meaningful? I would eliminate it. Can anyone legitimize its being there? Dynasteria ( talk) 16:49, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
For example this is an accusation against persons unknown and unnamed:
Where does it come from? Is it just urban mythology? Dynasteria ( talk) 17:17, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
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There should be some mention of neurological or psychological traits that are (or have been claimed to be) atavistic. For instance, schizophrenia was considered to be such according to Julian Jaynes’ theory of bicameralism. The idea that the way the human brain functions has changed significantly across history would imply that some mental “disorders” are actually just cases of individuals having neurological characteristics more like those that were common in another era. 2604:2D80:6984:4D00:0:0:0:6E4B ( talk) 05:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Only a single example of plant atavism is listed here. All the rest are animals! Can someone add more? Eden the plant nerd ( talk) 13:07, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
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Daily page views
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Elements of this page appear to have been taken verbatim from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section2.html. At the very least, shouldn't this be properly referenced, or removed if copywritten? Beefcalf 22:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Copywritten ? I think the word is "right", not "write" lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.59.93 ( talk) 14:16, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
--- Is this source really reliable? It appears to be unattributed and links to domain homepages, not actual articles of any substance in its own sources: http://universe-review.ca/F10-multicell.htm "Multi-cell Organisms". Universe-review.ca. Retrieved 2011-09-29. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.113.168.141 ( talk) 01:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
In the examples, it mentions hind legs in dolphins and hind legs in whales. That's redundant. All dolphins are whales. 129.237.90.54 03:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The term 'throwback' is commonly used to describe an incident in which someone who has two parents of one racial identity and yet possesses another, normally due to a genetic malfunction, causing a redundant gene from a long- gone ancestor to crop up again. Could someone please inform me if it's simply that the wrong term has been applied in the cases where I've heard it.
82.14.64.128 16:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Personally I wouldn't call it a malfunction. I don't see blue eyes suddenly emerging in a family a malfunction. Nobody says anything of a family of blondes with a brunette kid.
Some of the atavism stuff doesn't sit right with me. The cetaceans would be atavism if suddenly after a few generations flippers appeared and even then it doesn't work except in the first few flipper pioneers. Nobody considered the side show atavans. Lobster Boy and Seal Boy weren't recapturing crustacean or fish ancestory, they were just deformed. Flippers in the mammal family tree had been out of the picture since pretty far in their classification. The flipper in cetaceans evolved slowly, limbs becoming shorter and webbed and all that jazz until you came across what resembles the modern cetaceans. The horses born with those spare toes, and the babies with tails are great examples, the cetaceans not unless somebody has got a dolphin with legs. A bird with teeth or a snake with legs or a shelless turtle, or maybe somebody with hand like feet and fur would be great.
The two paragraphs at the beginning of the "atavism" section are unacceptable as written. They imply that the idea of atavism is accepted in modern scientific discourse. Either that is false, in which case they should be removed, or it is true, in which case it needs to be properly discussed, defended and documented. I think it's false; I also think this material was inserted as an underhanded way of slipping an essentially racist discourse into the present article. At the very least, this line of thinking should be clearly associated with its source in Hayek so that it will be clearly understood as distinct from the mainstream. I have therefore removed them. Poihths ( talk) 16:21, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
When a new material begins to replace an older one. Say a concrete lintel for the previous wooden one, people often hide this change by disguising the newer with features from the older, putting knotholes in the concrete to make it appear like a wooden lintel. Is this the proper term for this backward looking copying? rmwilliamsjr —Preceding undated comment added 18:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC).
A really interesting topic, but full of uncited material. Some of the claims have been made by WP:RS's and need to be tracked down. Others are wp:OR and need to go. DavidOaks ( talk) 18:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I noticed my addition of information about the "chickensaurus" was deleted. I sourced it, and while experimental it seems legitimate. Can anybody explain why it was taken out?
Jack Horner is working with a team of geneticists to create a "Chickensaurus", that is, a chicken with atavistic traits normally associated with extinct dinosaurs. [1] [2]
— x, x
Sociotard ( talk) 20:32, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Suggestion/Review
This is a very interesting article. It was fascinating to learn about such a phenomenon. I understand that there can be a mutation in the DNA sequence which causes for atavism to take place. However is it possible that if a disease takes place in the population that alters the next 3-4 generations, would atavism take place? 65.60.212.124 ( talk) 04:13, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
References
This entire section reads like a giant un-sourced non-sequitur. Yes, it has all kinds of links to other Wikipedia articles, but are they meaningful? I would eliminate it. Can anyone legitimize its being there? Dynasteria ( talk) 16:49, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
For example this is an accusation against persons unknown and unnamed:
Where does it come from? Is it just urban mythology? Dynasteria ( talk) 17:17, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Atavism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—
InternetArchiveBot (
Report bug)
13:32, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
There should be some mention of neurological or psychological traits that are (or have been claimed to be) atavistic. For instance, schizophrenia was considered to be such according to Julian Jaynes’ theory of bicameralism. The idea that the way the human brain functions has changed significantly across history would imply that some mental “disorders” are actually just cases of individuals having neurological characteristics more like those that were common in another era. 2604:2D80:6984:4D00:0:0:0:6E4B ( talk) 05:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Only a single example of plant atavism is listed here. All the rest are animals! Can someone add more? Eden the plant nerd ( talk) 13:07, 25 December 2021 (UTC)