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The astral body is clearly mentioned in many Tibetan and other Eastern texts that are more ancient than Plato. In this article there's no such mention.
Why do we have articles for astral body, subtle body and Body of Light? Dan 18:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
From discussion page at " Etheric projection" article:
I am interested in how the use of the word "etheric" and "astral" came into use, at all. The closest I can figure, is that etheric implies "being part of the air," while astral implies being part of the higher consciousness. 01:18, 25 June 2005 Psychicbody (Talk | contribs)
1. As I understand it, the Astral body refers to the irrational soul. This takes us back to Plato's parable of the irrational and rational souls struggling with each other. This article should therefore start earlier than the Neoplatonists.
2. The astral body disappears in the West at the time of the eighth ecumenical council http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/const4.html Canon 12, where it was declared anathematous. A Renaissance perspective on this can be found in D.P. Walker's article 'The Astral body and renaissance medicine', Journal of the Warburg Institute, 1959
3. Maimonides, in his introduction to Ethics of the Fathers, quotes the philosophers on the soul, as do other Mediaeval jewish scholars. Jewish tradition therefore, in general shares the Greek understanding of the soul as having three levels; vegetal (dealing with basic body growth and functions), emotional or irrational - the astral body, and the rational soul.
4. The astral body is well known in cultures around the world, though of course with many different names. In China it is known as the yin body, and it contains the acupuncture meridians.
5. Science rejects the astral body a priori and the scientific method is designed to exclude effects caused by the astral body. The goal of science is to explain all things purely in physical terms.
6. Conventional medicine rests on the scientific foundation that there is only the physical body, and attempts to explain all symptoms in terms of physical disorders, although in practice much ill health is the result of disturbances of the astral body. In clinical practice this generates masses of tests that are negative despite the presence of symptoms. It also produces many diagnoses that are simply descriptions of symptoms (e.g. irritable bowel syndrome, eczema) as the system fails to identify any physical disorder to attribute the symptoms to Aniksker ( talk) 07:34, 31 October 2018 (UTC).
This article reads like a mess of different people adding sentences here and there, which is probably how it has formed. As a result, it reads rather badly.
I say something like this because we may find that we can do away with some of it. -- T. Baphomet 18:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Let's say a hypothetical Wiki reader with no understanding of New Age and its (rather dubious) scientific foundations were to stumble upon this entry. He/she may very well be tricked into thinking the astral body is a real, observable phenomenon. Can we please get a scientific (read SKEPTICAL) perspective, or at the very least a sentence about how astral bodies may be make-believe? Just a thought. MosKillinest 06:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.blavatsky.net/magazine/theosophy/ww/setting/anthropology.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. IRWolfie- ( talk) 12:33, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
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Neither one mentioned, much less cited, that the material was about the "astral body." Please provide citations of the equivalence before returning. Skyerise ( talk) 02:08, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
The article makes no clear distinction between Theosophical and other systems. It is categorized as Anthroposophy and Theosophy, and as such should only have examples from those traditions. To include other systems without a majority of secondary sources saying that the differently named and described bodies are identical to the Anthroposophical or Theosophicallly defined 'astral body' is a pretty big violation of WP:SYN. Skyerise ( talk) 02:20, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- here, I think this is a correct outline - almost all of the division into four bodies is Theosophical, but 'astral body' is used the most ambiguously, pretty much as a "broad category" referring to any or all and thus subsuming its particular usage, which is why we have this mess. Skyerise ( talk) 19:24, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Yes, Category:Eastern esotericism is a category, placed correctly on Subtle body, just as Category:Western esotericism is properly placed on this article. Skyerise ( talk) 19:26, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
And the purely Western view of body of light is a completely separate intellectual tradition, with no overlap with the intellectual antecedents of subtle body, though elements of it were also borrowed by Theosophy which is why that tradition is syncretic and distinct from but derived from both. Skyerise ( talk) 19:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Nearly all these articles use the term " body of light", which is a specific lineage of teaching which runs through Hermeticism, Neoplatonism, Renaissance magic, Rosicrucianism, Ceremonial magic, and Thelema. Its derivation is not at all related to the Theosophical traditions which were based on the Indic yoga traditions - but Theosophy might also have intermixed some of this separate thread. That's for the writers of this article to establish. Some of these sources also use the term 'astral body' and have information relevant to Theosophical syncretism. Most should be accessible through WP:LIBRARY. Skyerise ( talk) 17:06, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
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The astral body is clearly mentioned in many Tibetan and other Eastern texts that are more ancient than Plato. In this article there's no such mention.
Why do we have articles for astral body, subtle body and Body of Light? Dan 18:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
From discussion page at " Etheric projection" article:
I am interested in how the use of the word "etheric" and "astral" came into use, at all. The closest I can figure, is that etheric implies "being part of the air," while astral implies being part of the higher consciousness. 01:18, 25 June 2005 Psychicbody (Talk | contribs)
1. As I understand it, the Astral body refers to the irrational soul. This takes us back to Plato's parable of the irrational and rational souls struggling with each other. This article should therefore start earlier than the Neoplatonists.
2. The astral body disappears in the West at the time of the eighth ecumenical council http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/const4.html Canon 12, where it was declared anathematous. A Renaissance perspective on this can be found in D.P. Walker's article 'The Astral body and renaissance medicine', Journal of the Warburg Institute, 1959
3. Maimonides, in his introduction to Ethics of the Fathers, quotes the philosophers on the soul, as do other Mediaeval jewish scholars. Jewish tradition therefore, in general shares the Greek understanding of the soul as having three levels; vegetal (dealing with basic body growth and functions), emotional or irrational - the astral body, and the rational soul.
4. The astral body is well known in cultures around the world, though of course with many different names. In China it is known as the yin body, and it contains the acupuncture meridians.
5. Science rejects the astral body a priori and the scientific method is designed to exclude effects caused by the astral body. The goal of science is to explain all things purely in physical terms.
6. Conventional medicine rests on the scientific foundation that there is only the physical body, and attempts to explain all symptoms in terms of physical disorders, although in practice much ill health is the result of disturbances of the astral body. In clinical practice this generates masses of tests that are negative despite the presence of symptoms. It also produces many diagnoses that are simply descriptions of symptoms (e.g. irritable bowel syndrome, eczema) as the system fails to identify any physical disorder to attribute the symptoms to Aniksker ( talk) 07:34, 31 October 2018 (UTC).
This article reads like a mess of different people adding sentences here and there, which is probably how it has formed. As a result, it reads rather badly.
I say something like this because we may find that we can do away with some of it. -- T. Baphomet 18:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Let's say a hypothetical Wiki reader with no understanding of New Age and its (rather dubious) scientific foundations were to stumble upon this entry. He/she may very well be tricked into thinking the astral body is a real, observable phenomenon. Can we please get a scientific (read SKEPTICAL) perspective, or at the very least a sentence about how astral bodies may be make-believe? Just a thought. MosKillinest 06:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.blavatsky.net/magazine/theosophy/ww/setting/anthropology.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. IRWolfie- ( talk) 12:33, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Astral body. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Neither one mentioned, much less cited, that the material was about the "astral body." Please provide citations of the equivalence before returning. Skyerise ( talk) 02:08, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
The article makes no clear distinction between Theosophical and other systems. It is categorized as Anthroposophy and Theosophy, and as such should only have examples from those traditions. To include other systems without a majority of secondary sources saying that the differently named and described bodies are identical to the Anthroposophical or Theosophicallly defined 'astral body' is a pretty big violation of WP:SYN. Skyerise ( talk) 02:20, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- here, I think this is a correct outline - almost all of the division into four bodies is Theosophical, but 'astral body' is used the most ambiguously, pretty much as a "broad category" referring to any or all and thus subsuming its particular usage, which is why we have this mess. Skyerise ( talk) 19:24, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Yes, Category:Eastern esotericism is a category, placed correctly on Subtle body, just as Category:Western esotericism is properly placed on this article. Skyerise ( talk) 19:26, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
And the purely Western view of body of light is a completely separate intellectual tradition, with no overlap with the intellectual antecedents of subtle body, though elements of it were also borrowed by Theosophy which is why that tradition is syncretic and distinct from but derived from both. Skyerise ( talk) 19:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Nearly all these articles use the term " body of light", which is a specific lineage of teaching which runs through Hermeticism, Neoplatonism, Renaissance magic, Rosicrucianism, Ceremonial magic, and Thelema. Its derivation is not at all related to the Theosophical traditions which were based on the Indic yoga traditions - but Theosophy might also have intermixed some of this separate thread. That's for the writers of this article to establish. Some of these sources also use the term 'astral body' and have information relevant to Theosophical syncretism. Most should be accessible through WP:LIBRARY. Skyerise ( talk) 17:06, 6 January 2022 (UTC)