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![]() | This article is written in Philippine English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, realize, center, travelled) and some terms that are used in it (including jeepney and cyberlibel) may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
The result of the move request was: Moved to Askal. ( non-admin closure) OhKayeSierra ( talk) 03:04, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Street dogs of the Philippines → Askal – Street dogs in the Philippines are called "askals" in English. There is a movement for them to be called "Aspins", but "Askals" still have a clear lead. An example of the usage is at one of the references of the article: " AKF mourns the tragic, untimely passing of the loyal Askal, Buboy." and " rescuing the askal". Could also be swayed to move to "Aspin", but not this hideous title. Howard the Duck ( talk) 15:21, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: procedural close. Consensus, albeit slim, was established in the prior discussion. The proper procedure is to discuss moving the article away from the Askal title, not to move it unilaterally. It would be fitting to open a RM to move to the Street dogs of the Philippines title. — C.Fred ( talk) 20:41, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Street dogs of the Philippines →
Askal – We just had a discussion last month. Let's do it again?
Howard the Duck (
talk)
02:01, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
He also started the previous discussion without pinging me, despite me being the one who was changing the article, so he is picking and choosing when to inform involved parties, therefore it is canvassing. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 19:37, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
There is an on-going discussion, don't move it while the discussion is taking place. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:18, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
"The page should not be moved unless the discussion is closed; summarizing the consensus achieved in support of the move." " The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached " Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:21, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Calm down. I'm sorry, but the fact that you're "getting pissed" or that you want to tell me "where to stick his edit warring" doesn't really help. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:37, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Admins should follow the RM rules. I didn't open the RM, there wasn't clear consensus. Poor admin move. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:43, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
There wasn't clear consensus for the move in the first RM, it's pretty obvious when you don't involve the person moving the article in the first place of the RM, and then have a non-admin closure, that you won't gain consensus. You said the consensus was slim (weak) yourself, I'd say it was just non-existent, which is why a move was acceptable. Besides, we had a RM running - that would have promoted discussion through the normal channels, closing it, kills the issue. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:57, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Wouldn't it have been easier if you had just let the RM run and see what happened? Either way, it's a pretty clean violation of naming policies so I might just take your advice and open a new RM. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 21:07, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
@ Elmidae: While there was consensus, I wanted another RM to put to rest Sennen Goroshi's arguments as he has been moving this article to his preferred awful title several times already. An RM with his participation would solve that. His argument is especially weak: in Philippine English, "Askal" is English, or at the very least, is used in English language sources as an English word. Howard the Duck ( talk) 00:15, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
"Askal" is English" - nope, it's Tagalog. I've been trying to find it in English dictionaries and No exact matches found for "askal" is the common response to my search. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 14:34, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: closed as not moved. Favonian ( talk) 21:44, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
Askal → Street dogs of the Philippines – As stated in WP:UE (Use English) we should be using English titles for articles when possible, Askal and Aspin are both Filipino portmanteaus, that are unknown to most English speakers Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 21:14, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Askal = Aso (dog)+ Kalye (street) - Aspin = Aso (dog) + Pinoy (Filipino) - these are certainly not English language terms, and the term Street dogs of the Philippines is a very standard and easily understandable title for English speakers. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 21:18, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
unknown to most English speakersappears not to be the case, based on my searches; indeed the term is generally offered in combination with the generic (i.e., "which are known as Askal"), which is a pretty good indicator that it constitutes a more precise identifier. English title != Anglo-Saxon; it means, in use in English discourse. -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 00:35, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
Looks like the name is also used in English sources." almost every source given is a Filipino source, not a native English source. San Francisco is very well known to English speakers, as are karaoke, spaghetti and champagne - Askal/Aspin isn't.
"(i.e., "which are known as Askal")," which is exactly why we shouldn't use Askal/Aspin - the fact that a source has to explain what Askal is, shows that it's not a well known term. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 08:12, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
Also, the fact that it isn't called Askal in Cebuano makes it clear that it isn't even universally used in the Philippines. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 08:16, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
WP:ENGLISH and WP:TRANSLITERATE Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 14:29, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
( Personal attack removed) It's quite clear where the consensus lies. Oh, I get it - you say there is consensus, so I'm supposed to go along with that? That isn't how consensus works, buddy. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 17:02, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
You have more faith in human nature than I do. I do however know my RM is made with the best of intentions. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 17:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
I think it doesn't matter if "Askal" is a portmanteau or not if it's widely used in a certain English speaking community, native or non-native, it should not be renamed. - unfortunately, Wikipedia has rules and guidelines that don't agree with you, go change those rules if you disagree with them. ...but based on the arguments here Kintsugi should be renamed "golden joinery". - you mean how Wikipedia doesn't have fujisan or nihon articles, but does have Mount Fuji and Japan articles. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 21:13, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
If you were to advise the president of the Philippines on how to cope with the economic problems we are facing today to solve and improve the lives of the Filipino people, what would you tell him and why? Part 2: 1.37.86.177 ( talk) 11:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
If you were to advise the president of the Philippines on how to cope with the economic problems we are facing today to solve and improve the lives of the Filipino people, what would you tell him and why? Part 2: 1.37.86.177 ( talk) 11:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Askal article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 360 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in Philippine English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, realize, center, travelled) and some terms that are used in it (including jeepney and cyberlibel) may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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The result of the move request was: Moved to Askal. ( non-admin closure) OhKayeSierra ( talk) 03:04, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Street dogs of the Philippines → Askal – Street dogs in the Philippines are called "askals" in English. There is a movement for them to be called "Aspins", but "Askals" still have a clear lead. An example of the usage is at one of the references of the article: " AKF mourns the tragic, untimely passing of the loyal Askal, Buboy." and " rescuing the askal". Could also be swayed to move to "Aspin", but not this hideous title. Howard the Duck ( talk) 15:21, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: procedural close. Consensus, albeit slim, was established in the prior discussion. The proper procedure is to discuss moving the article away from the Askal title, not to move it unilaterally. It would be fitting to open a RM to move to the Street dogs of the Philippines title. — C.Fred ( talk) 20:41, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Street dogs of the Philippines →
Askal – We just had a discussion last month. Let's do it again?
Howard the Duck (
talk)
02:01, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
He also started the previous discussion without pinging me, despite me being the one who was changing the article, so he is picking and choosing when to inform involved parties, therefore it is canvassing. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 19:37, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
There is an on-going discussion, don't move it while the discussion is taking place. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:18, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
"The page should not be moved unless the discussion is closed; summarizing the consensus achieved in support of the move." " The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached " Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:21, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Calm down. I'm sorry, but the fact that you're "getting pissed" or that you want to tell me "where to stick his edit warring" doesn't really help. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:37, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Admins should follow the RM rules. I didn't open the RM, there wasn't clear consensus. Poor admin move. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:43, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
There wasn't clear consensus for the move in the first RM, it's pretty obvious when you don't involve the person moving the article in the first place of the RM, and then have a non-admin closure, that you won't gain consensus. You said the consensus was slim (weak) yourself, I'd say it was just non-existent, which is why a move was acceptable. Besides, we had a RM running - that would have promoted discussion through the normal channels, closing it, kills the issue. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 20:57, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Wouldn't it have been easier if you had just let the RM run and see what happened? Either way, it's a pretty clean violation of naming policies so I might just take your advice and open a new RM. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 21:07, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
@ Elmidae: While there was consensus, I wanted another RM to put to rest Sennen Goroshi's arguments as he has been moving this article to his preferred awful title several times already. An RM with his participation would solve that. His argument is especially weak: in Philippine English, "Askal" is English, or at the very least, is used in English language sources as an English word. Howard the Duck ( talk) 00:15, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
"Askal" is English" - nope, it's Tagalog. I've been trying to find it in English dictionaries and No exact matches found for "askal" is the common response to my search. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 14:34, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: closed as not moved. Favonian ( talk) 21:44, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
Askal → Street dogs of the Philippines – As stated in WP:UE (Use English) we should be using English titles for articles when possible, Askal and Aspin are both Filipino portmanteaus, that are unknown to most English speakers Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 21:14, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Askal = Aso (dog)+ Kalye (street) - Aspin = Aso (dog) + Pinoy (Filipino) - these are certainly not English language terms, and the term Street dogs of the Philippines is a very standard and easily understandable title for English speakers. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 21:18, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
unknown to most English speakersappears not to be the case, based on my searches; indeed the term is generally offered in combination with the generic (i.e., "which are known as Askal"), which is a pretty good indicator that it constitutes a more precise identifier. English title != Anglo-Saxon; it means, in use in English discourse. -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 00:35, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
Looks like the name is also used in English sources." almost every source given is a Filipino source, not a native English source. San Francisco is very well known to English speakers, as are karaoke, spaghetti and champagne - Askal/Aspin isn't.
"(i.e., "which are known as Askal")," which is exactly why we shouldn't use Askal/Aspin - the fact that a source has to explain what Askal is, shows that it's not a well known term. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 08:12, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
Also, the fact that it isn't called Askal in Cebuano makes it clear that it isn't even universally used in the Philippines. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 08:16, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
WP:ENGLISH and WP:TRANSLITERATE Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 14:29, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
( Personal attack removed) It's quite clear where the consensus lies. Oh, I get it - you say there is consensus, so I'm supposed to go along with that? That isn't how consensus works, buddy. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 17:02, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
You have more faith in human nature than I do. I do however know my RM is made with the best of intentions. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 17:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
I think it doesn't matter if "Askal" is a portmanteau or not if it's widely used in a certain English speaking community, native or non-native, it should not be renamed. - unfortunately, Wikipedia has rules and guidelines that don't agree with you, go change those rules if you disagree with them. ...but based on the arguments here Kintsugi should be renamed "golden joinery". - you mean how Wikipedia doesn't have fujisan or nihon articles, but does have Mount Fuji and Japan articles. Sennen Goroshi ! ( talk) 21:13, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
If you were to advise the president of the Philippines on how to cope with the economic problems we are facing today to solve and improve the lives of the Filipino people, what would you tell him and why? Part 2: 1.37.86.177 ( talk) 11:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
If you were to advise the president of the Philippines on how to cope with the economic problems we are facing today to solve and improve the lives of the Filipino people, what would you tell him and why? Part 2: 1.37.86.177 ( talk) 11:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)