This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
The current intro is as follows:
"Many people believe that the Asian fetish is a form of racism and sexism against the Asians and/or Asian-Americans subjected to this fetish. Conversely, others, both Asian and non-Asian, see it as a false, racist, and unfair label which is applied indiscriminately to criticize and destroy all Asian female/non-Asian male relationships"
Why is it necessary to specifically point out that both Asians and non-Asians see the label "Asian fetish" as being unfair? Both Asians and non-Asians also believe the former statement that the Asian fetish is a form of racism, but that isn't specifically pointed out in the above paragraph. Would it be possible to either delete "both Asian and non-Asian" or else include that phrase in both sentences to even things out? Otherwise it sort of sounds like only Asians believe that the Asian fetish is a form of racism which is not the case.
Also, would it be possible to tone down the language of the second sentence to something more like "...see the Asian fetish as an innaccurate label unfairly and indiscriminantly condemning all Asian female/non-Asian male relationships"? I am not trying to give one POV more credit over the other; I partially agree with both personally. However, I feel that the two POV sentences are slightly incongruous in terms of language (i.e. the first sentence doesn't say something like "...racism and sexism against Asians, demeaning them and dehumanizing them, degrading Asian women to the point of sex objects")
Sorry to nitpick, but just wanted to discuss. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drenched ( talk • contribs).
"Many people believe that the Asian fetish is a form of racism and sexism against the Asians and/or Asian-Americans subjected to this fetish. However, others see the Asian fetish as an innaccurate label unfairly and indiscriminantly condemning all Asian female/non-Asian male relationships."
Drenched 17:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay, then is this acceptable to everyone?:
"Some believe that the Asian fetish is a form of racism and sexism against the Asians and/or Asian-Americans subjected to this fetish. However, others see the Asian fetish as a form of reverse racism, indiscriminantly condemning all Asian female/non-Asian male relationships." Drenched 20:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
That's okay.-- Dark Tichondrias 21:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
All right. I changed it.
Also, I was looking through the history pages and found this definition:
"The term Asian fetish refers to sexual stereotypes associated with Asians, especially Asian women. It is a neologism that may appear in three contexts:
1. To denote pornography, the subjects of which are Asian women, often in stereotypical costume or situations, and to describe Western men who seek this form of pornography;
2. By Asian American civil rights activists and authors to describe a form of racism and sexism against Asians and based on stereotypes about Asians; and
3. As an academic term in
postcolonialist literary and philosophical theory, referring to the
racial fetishism of Asians in the western world."
which I thought was quite good: clear, precise, and well organized. Or at the very least, better than the current "The term Asian fetish refers to a concept created by Asian American man named David Henry Hwang to label the attraction between some non-Asian men and Asian women." which is not nearly as informative in the various aspects of the term. Why was this definition deleted originally, and would anyone be in favor of restoring it? Thanks. Drenched 21:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The intro was problematic on a few spots, and I've re-worked it.
How about this, change this sentence:
to this:
Hong Qi Gong 02:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
It seems like almost all the content of this article addresses Non-Asian Men who are attracted to Asian women. How come the opposing situation is barely addressed if at all? Just because it does not appear to be as prevalent doesn't mean that it's not a topic worth addressing and discussing here! -- 69.216.136.163 08:31, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the disambiguation page be at Asian fetish and this page be at something like Asian fetish (sexual preference? -- Lukobe 22:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I put a lot of effort into improving this article over the course of about a week an a half, and most of what I added that was backed up with verifiable and reliable sources has been removed. The reasons given seem petty and pretextual, and always made to slant the article in favor of the asian fetish activist bias. This has happened to numerous other editors before me who have also been scared off by the tiresome and tireless persistence of these activists. By omitting this information and citations, this has been made into a less-good, less-encyclopedic article. It also gives a certain impression of the scope of "Asian fetish" that reflects this agenda. I don't have the time to waste putting it back, having it taken off, putting it back, arguing over niggling objections, having it taken off when I appear to be away, etc. These activist editors know who they are; they seem to have infinite amounts of time to spend on this article as well. Unless they somehow manage to work the reliable sources (as reliable as any of the sources they use) I and others before me cited which discuss "Asian fetish", then this article must be considered NPOV. Logoi 22:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Those that maintain that the article is POV, I highly suggest you take the time to read the article. Starting at the intro:
And then there are opposing views all throughout the article, not to mention an entire section just dedicated to the criticism of the term. The kinds of content we had to get rid of were contents that were either irrelevant, or that made the article POV. What we have now is a balanced and NPOV article. --- Hong Qi Gong 23:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Hong Qi Gong 01:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Edited to at least indicate that UD is not an authorative source, I personally don't think it should be referenced at all. Icewolf34 20:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I've added a weasel words template, the article as it stands is an almost incoherent selection of random facts and 'arguments' with no clear internal direction. The "Controversy" and "Criticisms" sections especially are completely unreferenced and filled with weasel terms like "most people" "many x", etc. Criticisms is 3 paragraphs long of possibly-controversial and possibly-POV opinion material without a single cite except of an incidental statistic. How is this even remotely encyclopedic?
this article is indeed a mess, I have made a few content changes for the parts on synonyms of the term Asia fetish but for now I am trying to restructure the page without adding any new content. Hopefully a more sensible structure will allow this page to be improved substantially... does anyone have any thoughts about the rather odd section at the bottom without any sources? NickCwik 21:27, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Apologies for revert user:Mr Phil but your additions go directly against the result of a vote held on this page in February 2006 which decided that these contributions were not relevant to the title of this article discussion and were too pov to include. I appreciate you have made some effort to write on this topic but we must abide by the will of the community as a whole. At the time of the vote there was also substantial argument as to whether the comments should be considere vandalism. Please do not recreate these changes without discussing the issue on the talk page, would be happy to discuss if you wish. NickCwik 10:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Laughing out loud: Thus it has been argued that Asian fetishists are racist and sexist against Asians because the attraction or sexual preference is based either partly or wholly on race or racial stereotypes.
How's that different from preferring blonde hair, a certain height, certain size of breasts, certain length of hair, and so on (I also like how attraction and affection can now be interpreted as racism)? These days you can't even get out of bed in the morning without unwittingly being guilty of racism of some sort. Is this paragraph based on something, or is it original research? If there's no source or other logical reason for it, it should probably be removed because Wikipedia shouldn't be promoting extreme stupidity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.197.136.202 ( talk • contribs).
This page definately does not contain a world view. Here in China, American men are depicted as superheroes, and the american exchange students have no trouble finding girlfriends. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.242.181.119 ( talk • contribs)
What other racial fetish are there besides Asian fetish? Could this Asian fetish exist just because it gets the most attention? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.213.196.222 ( talk • contribs)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
The current intro is as follows:
"Many people believe that the Asian fetish is a form of racism and sexism against the Asians and/or Asian-Americans subjected to this fetish. Conversely, others, both Asian and non-Asian, see it as a false, racist, and unfair label which is applied indiscriminately to criticize and destroy all Asian female/non-Asian male relationships"
Why is it necessary to specifically point out that both Asians and non-Asians see the label "Asian fetish" as being unfair? Both Asians and non-Asians also believe the former statement that the Asian fetish is a form of racism, but that isn't specifically pointed out in the above paragraph. Would it be possible to either delete "both Asian and non-Asian" or else include that phrase in both sentences to even things out? Otherwise it sort of sounds like only Asians believe that the Asian fetish is a form of racism which is not the case.
Also, would it be possible to tone down the language of the second sentence to something more like "...see the Asian fetish as an innaccurate label unfairly and indiscriminantly condemning all Asian female/non-Asian male relationships"? I am not trying to give one POV more credit over the other; I partially agree with both personally. However, I feel that the two POV sentences are slightly incongruous in terms of language (i.e. the first sentence doesn't say something like "...racism and sexism against Asians, demeaning them and dehumanizing them, degrading Asian women to the point of sex objects")
Sorry to nitpick, but just wanted to discuss. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drenched ( talk • contribs).
"Many people believe that the Asian fetish is a form of racism and sexism against the Asians and/or Asian-Americans subjected to this fetish. However, others see the Asian fetish as an innaccurate label unfairly and indiscriminantly condemning all Asian female/non-Asian male relationships."
Drenched 17:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay, then is this acceptable to everyone?:
"Some believe that the Asian fetish is a form of racism and sexism against the Asians and/or Asian-Americans subjected to this fetish. However, others see the Asian fetish as a form of reverse racism, indiscriminantly condemning all Asian female/non-Asian male relationships." Drenched 20:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
That's okay.-- Dark Tichondrias 21:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
All right. I changed it.
Also, I was looking through the history pages and found this definition:
"The term Asian fetish refers to sexual stereotypes associated with Asians, especially Asian women. It is a neologism that may appear in three contexts:
1. To denote pornography, the subjects of which are Asian women, often in stereotypical costume or situations, and to describe Western men who seek this form of pornography;
2. By Asian American civil rights activists and authors to describe a form of racism and sexism against Asians and based on stereotypes about Asians; and
3. As an academic term in
postcolonialist literary and philosophical theory, referring to the
racial fetishism of Asians in the western world."
which I thought was quite good: clear, precise, and well organized. Or at the very least, better than the current "The term Asian fetish refers to a concept created by Asian American man named David Henry Hwang to label the attraction between some non-Asian men and Asian women." which is not nearly as informative in the various aspects of the term. Why was this definition deleted originally, and would anyone be in favor of restoring it? Thanks. Drenched 21:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The intro was problematic on a few spots, and I've re-worked it.
How about this, change this sentence:
to this:
Hong Qi Gong 02:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
It seems like almost all the content of this article addresses Non-Asian Men who are attracted to Asian women. How come the opposing situation is barely addressed if at all? Just because it does not appear to be as prevalent doesn't mean that it's not a topic worth addressing and discussing here! -- 69.216.136.163 08:31, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the disambiguation page be at Asian fetish and this page be at something like Asian fetish (sexual preference? -- Lukobe 22:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I put a lot of effort into improving this article over the course of about a week an a half, and most of what I added that was backed up with verifiable and reliable sources has been removed. The reasons given seem petty and pretextual, and always made to slant the article in favor of the asian fetish activist bias. This has happened to numerous other editors before me who have also been scared off by the tiresome and tireless persistence of these activists. By omitting this information and citations, this has been made into a less-good, less-encyclopedic article. It also gives a certain impression of the scope of "Asian fetish" that reflects this agenda. I don't have the time to waste putting it back, having it taken off, putting it back, arguing over niggling objections, having it taken off when I appear to be away, etc. These activist editors know who they are; they seem to have infinite amounts of time to spend on this article as well. Unless they somehow manage to work the reliable sources (as reliable as any of the sources they use) I and others before me cited which discuss "Asian fetish", then this article must be considered NPOV. Logoi 22:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Those that maintain that the article is POV, I highly suggest you take the time to read the article. Starting at the intro:
And then there are opposing views all throughout the article, not to mention an entire section just dedicated to the criticism of the term. The kinds of content we had to get rid of were contents that were either irrelevant, or that made the article POV. What we have now is a balanced and NPOV article. --- Hong Qi Gong 23:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Hong Qi Gong 01:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Edited to at least indicate that UD is not an authorative source, I personally don't think it should be referenced at all. Icewolf34 20:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I've added a weasel words template, the article as it stands is an almost incoherent selection of random facts and 'arguments' with no clear internal direction. The "Controversy" and "Criticisms" sections especially are completely unreferenced and filled with weasel terms like "most people" "many x", etc. Criticisms is 3 paragraphs long of possibly-controversial and possibly-POV opinion material without a single cite except of an incidental statistic. How is this even remotely encyclopedic?
this article is indeed a mess, I have made a few content changes for the parts on synonyms of the term Asia fetish but for now I am trying to restructure the page without adding any new content. Hopefully a more sensible structure will allow this page to be improved substantially... does anyone have any thoughts about the rather odd section at the bottom without any sources? NickCwik 21:27, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Apologies for revert user:Mr Phil but your additions go directly against the result of a vote held on this page in February 2006 which decided that these contributions were not relevant to the title of this article discussion and were too pov to include. I appreciate you have made some effort to write on this topic but we must abide by the will of the community as a whole. At the time of the vote there was also substantial argument as to whether the comments should be considere vandalism. Please do not recreate these changes without discussing the issue on the talk page, would be happy to discuss if you wish. NickCwik 10:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Laughing out loud: Thus it has been argued that Asian fetishists are racist and sexist against Asians because the attraction or sexual preference is based either partly or wholly on race or racial stereotypes.
How's that different from preferring blonde hair, a certain height, certain size of breasts, certain length of hair, and so on (I also like how attraction and affection can now be interpreted as racism)? These days you can't even get out of bed in the morning without unwittingly being guilty of racism of some sort. Is this paragraph based on something, or is it original research? If there's no source or other logical reason for it, it should probably be removed because Wikipedia shouldn't be promoting extreme stupidity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.197.136.202 ( talk • contribs).
This page definately does not contain a world view. Here in China, American men are depicted as superheroes, and the american exchange students have no trouble finding girlfriends. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.242.181.119 ( talk • contribs)
What other racial fetish are there besides Asian fetish? Could this Asian fetish exist just because it gets the most attention? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.213.196.222 ( talk • contribs)