![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 14 August 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | Ashley Smith inquest has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: August 1, 2014. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The initial article creator chose to use {{ Infobox War on Terror detainee}} in this article. I switched to {{ Infobox person}}, since no evidence was provided that she was involved in the War on Terror.-- Auric ( talk) 22:49, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I think I made some edits for this article, feel free to comment this article if this is much wrong or not simple. It may not match to its deletion policy. --Mohamed Aden Ighe 04:03, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Not pitching any aluminum foil hats here, but after watching the first documentary I was interested in watching both. I can't see it because I'm not a loyal maple leaf (though a red maple does grow in sight of this keyboard). Anybody above the timberline like to view this? Please feel invited to add to the section on the The Fifth Estate's second film on this subject, "Behind the Wall."( link). Thanks! BusterD ( talk) 11:57, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I would like to make some substantive changes to this article, but I thought it best to discuss them first. My starting point is this (and it could be my residual thoughts from the AfD, so feel free to tell me off :) ): this article is about the Ashley Smith inquest versus Ashley Smith's life. Therefore, depending on what objections there are, I plan on making the following changes:
I know a lot of people put a lot of work into those sections, so I don't want to go all ogre/ dragon-like and not discuss it first. Singularity42 ( talk) 16:28, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Here's my first proposed new version. The main changes are as follows:
Suggestions? Like it? Hate it? Comments? Singularity42 ( talk) 19:15, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Is there a free picture of Smith out there somewhere? Could include it in either the "Early life" section of the current version or the "Background and death" version of my proposed new version.
I've also seen some of the media outlets use still shots like this one. If there's a free version of that around, that would also be useful for the article. Singularity42 ( talk) 19:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I changed Ashley's death from a suicide to auto-asphyxiation. It's a form of self-harm that causes the person to get a high from losing consciousness. She had done this very same thing hundreds a times before. This wasn't a suicide. She wasn't suicidal. She wasn't on a suicide watch. (A suicide watch is ordered by a psychologist and the inmate is placed on 15 minute rounds.) Any reports calling this a suicide is strictly media sensationalism.
UCCO-SACC-CSN Press Release: http://www.ucco-sacc.csn.qc.ca/Documents/UCCO-SACC/Ontario/documents/ARushToJudgment/UCCO_SACC_CSN_PressRelease_oct23_2008.pdf
A Rush to Judgment - Union report on the death of Ashley Smith: http://www.ucco-sacc.csn.qc.ca/Documents/UCCO-SACC/Ontario/documents/ARushToJudgment/Full%20Report%20-%20A%20Rush%20to%20Judgment.pdf PrisonBull69 ( talk) 01:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Um. I disagree with this change. The CBC timeline source linked from the main article clearly states that Smith was placed on a formal suicide watch on 18 October 2007; and a guard is quoted as having a conversation with her that evening in which she stated "I want to die" in the same timeline article. (Whether or not she actually meant this is speculation.) I would not characterize that as media sensationalism. I don't know if there has been further testimony to this effect since the new inquiry started last week. In my opinion, this change should be reverted - at least the part removing reference to suicide. Vulcan's Forge ( talk) 16:59, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
Only Wikipedia is still calling this a suicide. It was originally media sensationalism. Had the original story come out truthfully, it wouldn't have legs. The original story leads people to think that this was a singular occasion, that officers happened to be watching an inmate commit suicide while standing around and doing nothing. A formal suicide watch is when a psychologist orders 15 minute rounds. It's a CYA. This was way above and beyond that. She had a team at the ready, everyday videotaping her. She had self-harmed hundreds of times before. She was quoted as saying, "I want to get high." This officer had personally wrote 50 use-of-force reports on her: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/author/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/29/christie-blatchford-senior-managers-at-ashley-smiths-prison-more-interested-in-careers-than-inmates-inquest-told&pubdate=2013-01-29&t=cblatchford PrisonBull69 ( talk) 17:03, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
As most sources are now calling it just a 'death', can we agree to call her passing just that? There is a huge difference. When the results of the inquest are released, we can call it how it is. PrisonBull69 ( talk) 03:37, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Time to remove any mention of suicide? The National Post is calling this, "she asphyxiated herself" and "a 19-year-old who died". This article starts to get it right: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/02/18/christie-blatchford-on-ashley-smith-how-does-an-18-year-old-end-up-doing-serious-time-in-a-federal-prison-for-throwing-crab-apples-at-a-postman/ PrisonBull69 ( talk) 19:49, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
More reports from the inquest. Nothing mentioning suicide:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/02/19/christie-blatchford-corrections-official-seemed-to-suggest-that-ashley-smith-death-by-her-own-hand-would-be-acceptable-guard-testifies/ PrisonBull69 ( talk) 10:39, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
[1] "Ashley repeatedly used ligatures to strangle herself at great risk to her life and ultimately with the result that she died. She secreted these on her person in her vagina and rectum and correctional officers did not or could not remove these from her. The institutions did sometimes send her to general hospitals with the request that the hospital staff remove them. These aspects of the circumstances of the death are in contrast to what would happen in a health care setting where the first question would be whether she consented to the removal of these objects from her body and whether she was capable, by virtue of her mental health challenges to consent or refuse such consent. In the event that she were assessed by a legally authorized mental health care professional as incompetent to make those decisions in a health care setting, a substitute decision maker (most often a family member) would be appointed in the manner prescribed by law and steps deemed necessary by that decision maker, with the advice of her treatment team, would be available to be consented to on her behalf to protect her life. In view of the tragedy in this death the jury may wish to consider recommendations which would address these circumstances of this death to prevent similar deaths in the future." PrisonBull69 ( talk) 09:02, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
"Smith was transferred to the Grand Valley Institution in Kitchener in late August 2007. She died Oct. 19, 2007, in her segregation cell after tying a ligature around her neck and asphyxiating." [2] PrisonBull69 ( talk) 16:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
"Throughout the near-year she spent in the federal system, Ashley “tied up” with alarming frequency and was considered a high risk for suicide, though suicide was not what she appears to have intended. Rather, her ligature use was designed to get staff rushing into her cell, both to give her the human contact she craved and the feeling of power she savoured." I'm not really sure how much more journalistic 'proof' one needs to correct this entry to no longer say this was a suicide as it is clear that it wasn't? The issue with calling it a suicide is that it incorrectly leads the uninformed public to assume that this girl killed herself while officers watched and did nothing to prevent it. Nothing could be further from the truth. [3] PrisonBull69 ( talk) 02:41, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
It's taken awhile but I feel vindicated. I understand you need a RS to make changes. What the ruling of 'homicide' means is that the death was preventable. This can be somewhat misleading as every death is 'preventable'. To clarify, the purpose of a Coroner’s Inquest is to determine a cause of death, and not to find fault or assign blame. The means by which the death occurred can only be found as one of the following: accidental, natural causes, suicide, undetermined, or homicide. The verdict of homicide is not the same as that under the Criminal Code of Canada. A finding of homicide, in this context, is not a finding of criminal or legal responsibility but an indication that Ashley’s death was preventable. PrisonBull69 ( talk) 04:05, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
References
Have any reliable sources suggested evidence there is a question of the preparedness of corrections workers? In the video of Ashley Smith's death, one worker is heard to say, "Jesus Christ, I haven't had fucking CPR training in 11 years. Give me a break." The quote can be seen at 1:33 of a LiveLeak video URL: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=213_1358477025 *WARNING* The video is graphic, and is cited only to establish statements concerning the capabilities of corrections officers as regards this inquiry.
CSC Correctional Officers get mandatory re-training in CPR every three years. It's a manager's responsibility to ensure it happens. PrisonBull69 ( talk) 01:32, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
it is given to every other person whose passage through this life has a pronounced effect on people, society, or its constructs. this article should document the progression of insults to this young person's equilibrium.
as it stands you have a rather mixed-up mess, the ashley smith inquest and its "early life"; great emphasis on certain aspects but lack of information on others, the two documentaries and the two inquests. the documentaries should be added to a biographical article or have their own entries. the inquests should remain with the original (inquest) article. 184.148.67.99 ( talk) 00:29, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Freikorp ( talk · contribs) 13:24, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Please keep in mind that this is my first review. Judging against the criteria I see the following issues:
Other than that I see no issues. Article is well-written, broad in its coverage, neutral and stable. Freikorp ( talk) 13:24, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Is young offender really an occupation?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pat power11 ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
This is been changed and reverted several times, so opening discussion here. While the final verdict of the inquest was homicide without findings of specific guilt on the part of any member of the corrections staff, the actual title of the inquest was "An Inquest touching the Death of Ashley Smith". The final lead paragraph indicates the results of the inquest (finding of homicide), so I would argue that changing the opening sentence to "inquest into the homicide of Ashley Smith" is unnecessary and logically and grammatically incorrect. (One does not hold an inquest into a homicide; stating homicide indicates that the cause of death is already known.) Please discuss here before further changing the article opening sentence. Vulcan's Forge ( talk) 15:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 14 August 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | Ashley Smith inquest has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: August 1, 2014. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The initial article creator chose to use {{ Infobox War on Terror detainee}} in this article. I switched to {{ Infobox person}}, since no evidence was provided that she was involved in the War on Terror.-- Auric ( talk) 22:49, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I think I made some edits for this article, feel free to comment this article if this is much wrong or not simple. It may not match to its deletion policy. --Mohamed Aden Ighe 04:03, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Not pitching any aluminum foil hats here, but after watching the first documentary I was interested in watching both. I can't see it because I'm not a loyal maple leaf (though a red maple does grow in sight of this keyboard). Anybody above the timberline like to view this? Please feel invited to add to the section on the The Fifth Estate's second film on this subject, "Behind the Wall."( link). Thanks! BusterD ( talk) 11:57, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I would like to make some substantive changes to this article, but I thought it best to discuss them first. My starting point is this (and it could be my residual thoughts from the AfD, so feel free to tell me off :) ): this article is about the Ashley Smith inquest versus Ashley Smith's life. Therefore, depending on what objections there are, I plan on making the following changes:
I know a lot of people put a lot of work into those sections, so I don't want to go all ogre/ dragon-like and not discuss it first. Singularity42 ( talk) 16:28, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Here's my first proposed new version. The main changes are as follows:
Suggestions? Like it? Hate it? Comments? Singularity42 ( talk) 19:15, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Is there a free picture of Smith out there somewhere? Could include it in either the "Early life" section of the current version or the "Background and death" version of my proposed new version.
I've also seen some of the media outlets use still shots like this one. If there's a free version of that around, that would also be useful for the article. Singularity42 ( talk) 19:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I changed Ashley's death from a suicide to auto-asphyxiation. It's a form of self-harm that causes the person to get a high from losing consciousness. She had done this very same thing hundreds a times before. This wasn't a suicide. She wasn't suicidal. She wasn't on a suicide watch. (A suicide watch is ordered by a psychologist and the inmate is placed on 15 minute rounds.) Any reports calling this a suicide is strictly media sensationalism.
UCCO-SACC-CSN Press Release: http://www.ucco-sacc.csn.qc.ca/Documents/UCCO-SACC/Ontario/documents/ARushToJudgment/UCCO_SACC_CSN_PressRelease_oct23_2008.pdf
A Rush to Judgment - Union report on the death of Ashley Smith: http://www.ucco-sacc.csn.qc.ca/Documents/UCCO-SACC/Ontario/documents/ARushToJudgment/Full%20Report%20-%20A%20Rush%20to%20Judgment.pdf PrisonBull69 ( talk) 01:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Um. I disagree with this change. The CBC timeline source linked from the main article clearly states that Smith was placed on a formal suicide watch on 18 October 2007; and a guard is quoted as having a conversation with her that evening in which she stated "I want to die" in the same timeline article. (Whether or not she actually meant this is speculation.) I would not characterize that as media sensationalism. I don't know if there has been further testimony to this effect since the new inquiry started last week. In my opinion, this change should be reverted - at least the part removing reference to suicide. Vulcan's Forge ( talk) 16:59, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
Only Wikipedia is still calling this a suicide. It was originally media sensationalism. Had the original story come out truthfully, it wouldn't have legs. The original story leads people to think that this was a singular occasion, that officers happened to be watching an inmate commit suicide while standing around and doing nothing. A formal suicide watch is when a psychologist orders 15 minute rounds. It's a CYA. This was way above and beyond that. She had a team at the ready, everyday videotaping her. She had self-harmed hundreds of times before. She was quoted as saying, "I want to get high." This officer had personally wrote 50 use-of-force reports on her: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/author/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/29/christie-blatchford-senior-managers-at-ashley-smiths-prison-more-interested-in-careers-than-inmates-inquest-told&pubdate=2013-01-29&t=cblatchford PrisonBull69 ( talk) 17:03, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
As most sources are now calling it just a 'death', can we agree to call her passing just that? There is a huge difference. When the results of the inquest are released, we can call it how it is. PrisonBull69 ( talk) 03:37, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Time to remove any mention of suicide? The National Post is calling this, "she asphyxiated herself" and "a 19-year-old who died". This article starts to get it right: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/02/18/christie-blatchford-on-ashley-smith-how-does-an-18-year-old-end-up-doing-serious-time-in-a-federal-prison-for-throwing-crab-apples-at-a-postman/ PrisonBull69 ( talk) 19:49, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
More reports from the inquest. Nothing mentioning suicide:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/02/19/christie-blatchford-corrections-official-seemed-to-suggest-that-ashley-smith-death-by-her-own-hand-would-be-acceptable-guard-testifies/ PrisonBull69 ( talk) 10:39, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
[1] "Ashley repeatedly used ligatures to strangle herself at great risk to her life and ultimately with the result that she died. She secreted these on her person in her vagina and rectum and correctional officers did not or could not remove these from her. The institutions did sometimes send her to general hospitals with the request that the hospital staff remove them. These aspects of the circumstances of the death are in contrast to what would happen in a health care setting where the first question would be whether she consented to the removal of these objects from her body and whether she was capable, by virtue of her mental health challenges to consent or refuse such consent. In the event that she were assessed by a legally authorized mental health care professional as incompetent to make those decisions in a health care setting, a substitute decision maker (most often a family member) would be appointed in the manner prescribed by law and steps deemed necessary by that decision maker, with the advice of her treatment team, would be available to be consented to on her behalf to protect her life. In view of the tragedy in this death the jury may wish to consider recommendations which would address these circumstances of this death to prevent similar deaths in the future." PrisonBull69 ( talk) 09:02, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
"Smith was transferred to the Grand Valley Institution in Kitchener in late August 2007. She died Oct. 19, 2007, in her segregation cell after tying a ligature around her neck and asphyxiating." [2] PrisonBull69 ( talk) 16:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
"Throughout the near-year she spent in the federal system, Ashley “tied up” with alarming frequency and was considered a high risk for suicide, though suicide was not what she appears to have intended. Rather, her ligature use was designed to get staff rushing into her cell, both to give her the human contact she craved and the feeling of power she savoured." I'm not really sure how much more journalistic 'proof' one needs to correct this entry to no longer say this was a suicide as it is clear that it wasn't? The issue with calling it a suicide is that it incorrectly leads the uninformed public to assume that this girl killed herself while officers watched and did nothing to prevent it. Nothing could be further from the truth. [3] PrisonBull69 ( talk) 02:41, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
It's taken awhile but I feel vindicated. I understand you need a RS to make changes. What the ruling of 'homicide' means is that the death was preventable. This can be somewhat misleading as every death is 'preventable'. To clarify, the purpose of a Coroner’s Inquest is to determine a cause of death, and not to find fault or assign blame. The means by which the death occurred can only be found as one of the following: accidental, natural causes, suicide, undetermined, or homicide. The verdict of homicide is not the same as that under the Criminal Code of Canada. A finding of homicide, in this context, is not a finding of criminal or legal responsibility but an indication that Ashley’s death was preventable. PrisonBull69 ( talk) 04:05, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
References
Have any reliable sources suggested evidence there is a question of the preparedness of corrections workers? In the video of Ashley Smith's death, one worker is heard to say, "Jesus Christ, I haven't had fucking CPR training in 11 years. Give me a break." The quote can be seen at 1:33 of a LiveLeak video URL: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=213_1358477025 *WARNING* The video is graphic, and is cited only to establish statements concerning the capabilities of corrections officers as regards this inquiry.
CSC Correctional Officers get mandatory re-training in CPR every three years. It's a manager's responsibility to ensure it happens. PrisonBull69 ( talk) 01:32, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
it is given to every other person whose passage through this life has a pronounced effect on people, society, or its constructs. this article should document the progression of insults to this young person's equilibrium.
as it stands you have a rather mixed-up mess, the ashley smith inquest and its "early life"; great emphasis on certain aspects but lack of information on others, the two documentaries and the two inquests. the documentaries should be added to a biographical article or have their own entries. the inquests should remain with the original (inquest) article. 184.148.67.99 ( talk) 00:29, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Freikorp ( talk · contribs) 13:24, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Please keep in mind that this is my first review. Judging against the criteria I see the following issues:
Other than that I see no issues. Article is well-written, broad in its coverage, neutral and stable. Freikorp ( talk) 13:24, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Is young offender really an occupation?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pat power11 ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
This is been changed and reverted several times, so opening discussion here. While the final verdict of the inquest was homicide without findings of specific guilt on the part of any member of the corrections staff, the actual title of the inquest was "An Inquest touching the Death of Ashley Smith". The final lead paragraph indicates the results of the inquest (finding of homicide), so I would argue that changing the opening sentence to "inquest into the homicide of Ashley Smith" is unnecessary and logically and grammatically incorrect. (One does not hold an inquest into a homicide; stating homicide indicates that the cause of death is already known.) Please discuss here before further changing the article opening sentence. Vulcan's Forge ( talk) 15:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)