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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Hi Wiki team ,
I would like to put lot of editions in AsaRam Bapu ji Wiki Page.
It's dissapointing to see that wiki team does not have a valid information on him , Inspite he being one of the most spiritual & divine soul on this Earth.
He has been doing endless contributions to save human & Mankind, for the upliftment of women in India , to teach the younsters the path of divine spirituality & many more.
He started doing the Satsang & Sewa at the age of only 23 after attaining the Brahmagyan from his Guru ji Sai Lilashah . It's been more than 50 years now he is spreading the divine knowledge of true Self.
Not thousand & not lakhs , Millions of people have been benifitted by his holiness & kindness.
I would request you to please remove / atleast unhighlight the controversies that were definetely imposed on him by the Jealous people of world.
Rather please put the contributions & thousand of miracles he has done for the upliftment and the ease of Mankind . You would definetely be blessed .
Please refer the Ashram site http://www.ashram.org/PujyaBapuji/AboutBapuji.aspx . You can find 3 hours documentary as well here .
There is recent You tube video where with Mantra Science , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJj4Z6NfT_k&feature=youtube_gdata_player
A Drought effected area where there had been no water since 4 years , with his power & blessings , it Rained there for 4 days . It saved the life of many farmers , children & gave boost to local plantation as well.
There have been endless examples of such miracles.
Thank you Regards Kanika — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaarora ( talk • contribs) 07:07, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
off-topic discussion | |||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | |||
Asaram Bapu is really a great saint. Thousand of people including me have benefited a lot from him. But the media thought that defaming such a saint can raise up their TRP and bring them huge profit. They have started showing irrelevant news about him which we all know is just a piece of fiction and not at all true. My request to all is to not consider these allegations and use your mind. Why millions of people are still attached to him? because they have experienced the divine power of Asaram Bapuji. He is a true saint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.102.127.16 ( talk) 04:16, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Much like the celebrity religionists that plague the United States, self-proclaimed gurus have enjoyed a long and parasitic relationship with India's underclasses--exploiting rural peasants, the mentally infirm, and the elderly. They are despicable hucksters who take advantage of the people who can least afford such exploitation--and they avoid censure by selecting unsophisticated victims who can be made to believe they've actually been helped. Their victims could truly benefit from some guidance transitioning out of their medieval beliefs, but these gurus simply pander to their clientele, reinforcing their repellent views--witness Bapu-Ji's recent pronouncement that the Delhi gang-rape victim was as much at fault as the five in custody: [1]
The Delhi police have been worse-than-incompetent--and often intransigent--but the gurus actually encourage the sub-human criminality. |
The article was originally written with a lot of unreferenced biographical information. There were lots of claims presented as facts. I've gone ahead and reduced the article to a stub. In my opinion, new material should be clearly referenced, with no unverifiable claims and neutral in tone. TheRingess ( talk) 20:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Sant Shri Asaramji Bapu is a recently created article that I think should be merged into here.
SPat talk 13:37, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
I agree.. -- Rohit ( talk) 13:51, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
This apge should replace the page that is currently shown on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.164.229.5 ( talk) 06:10, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
All information in this article must adhere to the policy on articles about living persons. I would strongly encourage anyone who wants to improve this article to cite sources in support of any information added. I've reverted the changes by User:Fragin2010 as they simply re-introduced unreferenced information into the article. Please discuss here before re-adding the information. — Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 01:30, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Following information seems unnecessary and should be deleted/rewritten!
Live webcast of Spiritual Discourse is facilitated for more than 5 crore followers (sadhaks) living worldwide through the Ashram website. The more information about ashram is available at here:- More Info About Ashram - Ashram.org [3]
Refer notes are not from trusted resources. Here direct link is provided and also unclaimed 5 Crore followers are listed! Please provide necessary reference and rewrite it as per wiki standards Deepeshdeomurari ( talk) 14:00, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
i would request mr/ms author to pls go thru' the dictionary to find out meaning of the term "self-proclaimed", he has over 5 crore followers, for whom he is the spiritual guru. so pls remove this word(from introduction column). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.246.197.51 ( talk) 10:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC) And also if you can write about comments in the gang rape case, you can also write about the ashrams and bal sanskar kendras. Ankush98 ( talk) 05:19, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
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Dear Sir,
Request you to allow me to edit this page as i will want to add the biography and foundations in this page, which was available in previous versions done by user naveentirthani. The current page does not show the biography and foundations in it. For some season someone has cut short and only given controversies in the article. Since i am a well wisher of Asaram Bapu and could like to add and highlight various things related to Asaram Bapu.
Please give me the required permission to edit this page.
Thanks & Regards Anand Anandraheja ( talk) 03:25, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
Please discuss first before adding these content! -- Tito Dutta ( talk) 18:02, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Titodutta - please let me know , why cant we keep old revisions data which prevailed for long time. Same content was already in in older revisions, I am just restoring those. Naveentirthani ( talk)
The article is not neutral at all! The controversies have been highlighted too much! Ankush98 ( talk) 04:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
I have reverted this edit because Source6 mentions this! -- Tito Dutta ( talk) 06:29, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
The line was mentioned in only one source.And it was written by an editor, who could be biased in his opinions .So I request you to remove the line.It is very easy to malign a person. Ankush98 ( talk) 08:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
What is meant by "don't other editors' posts"? Ankush98 ( talk) 08:14, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Titodutta: I notice you added this [1] source as an additional reference to the passage in question. I'd be a bit reluctant about that one: it was published only on 9 January, well after the claim was in our article here, and the whole piece on OneIndiaNews looks suspiciously like a paraphrase of our Wikipedia article. Could be a case of "citogenesis" [2]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:55, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
No i am sorry I had opened another link and did not find the given line in it.But please hear my point. Ankush98 ( talk) 03:18, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}
Please change the text in Biography Section to the one given below
Deep345 ( talk) 04:15, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Currently He is in India, and reference when he came to India is at page 2 [[ http://books.google.com/books?id=EleWwbvfGfQC&pg=PT3 Jivan Jhanki]] [2] if this is not valid - From where we would get this reference then? -- Naveentirthani ( talk) 02:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
On 2nd Day of Ashwin month in Samvat 2021 at 2:30 PM in the afternoon by the blessings of Swami Sri Lilashahji Maharaj He attained Self Realization on October 7, 1964, Asumal was transformed into Asaram Bapu . After this Asaram Bapu went into samadhi for next two and a half days. [[ http://books.google.com/books?id=EleWwbvfGfQC&pg=PT3]].
Some of the information on first paragraph has been repeated in the second one. I request the contributors to merge the two... Koteshwor ( talk) 20:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Dear Admins - dont you have any answer on this? You are removing all required things,and keeping only controversies, this is not at all fair. - this page should have biography section but you people have filled this up by your controversies. please answer. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Naveentirthani (
talk •
contribs)
19:50, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
First of all who is the real administrator or editor of this page?!! If you are unable to put-up whole biography of a saint properly.. kindly remove this page from so called prestigious Wikipedia. You are Just highlighting controversies which in fact are dubious one. Pandeyadityasn ( talk) 13:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)pandeyadityasn 4/03/13 7.20pm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pandeyadityasn ( talk • contribs) 13:46, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
I had given 2 links on diksha and crowd which usually gather at his Satsangs. How many links you want for this. what language should i use, If my language is wrong then correct it and keep it, why are you removing it entirely. Here the references http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2005-05-08/patna/27833997_1_asaram-bapu-diksha-disciples http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2001-12-02/ahmedabad/27250212_1_asaram-bapu-students-throng-sant http://www.bhaskar.com/article/MP-OTH-58684-3955012.html http://www.bhaskar.com/article/RAJ-OTH-1447153-3466899.html?PRVNX= Naveentirthani ( talk) 19:58, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
His spiritual discourses have been scheduled in different Indian cities like Ahmedabad, Patna and devotees also took diksha from him in these satsang programs.
the line I have removed has only one source. It is the policy of wikipedia that things are added only after proper verification. when ashram.org can not be considered as a source,why can these sold media websites be considered as a source.Moreover only you told me that the language of the media cannot be directly used.Now can anyone answer me?? Kanuraj123 ( talk) 06:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Why is everything about asaram bapu unencyclopedic and all controversies encyclopedic material?? Kanuraj123 ( talk) 04:11, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
What is promotional in it?And if times of india uses it,the article must be true.what problem do you have from it?why do you want only controversies on the page? Are you not an Indian?Do we not respect Shri Asaram Bapuji? Kanuraj123 ( talk) 05:04, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
"One single opinion piece doesn't indicate what he "often invokes" and as a piece written by him",this is what you say. I also say the same thing about source 6,and so I remove It again and again. Kanuraj123 ( talk) 06:54, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
The source says what was mentioned by raju chandak.He could even tell a lie!Why are you not understanding this?Please let me remove this,It will not do wikipedia any harm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.163.245 ( talk) 06:40, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I have found a video www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UD8Pvf057U — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanuraj123 ( talk • contribs) 04:11, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Titodutta,Even I would have done the same if I was in your situation.You are an employee of wikipedia(If my thinking is right),and try to prevent any damage to it.But please understand the fact that I am not disrupting anything.Wikipedia always speaks the truth.I hope you now understand that no saint has ever been so unfairly maligned as asaram bapuji.This is because he has stopped the activities of christian missionaries,who have converted almost all north east india to christianity.They wanted to erase his popularity.Even you know that North East is predominantly christian.If you want proofs,I can show You.Therefore I request you to please let me remove that unfair line.You don't need to reply on the talk page,since you must be very busy. And by the way,where in India do you live?We are (were)fighting it out in wikipedia,but havent even exchanged our phone numbers!:) My number is phone number hidden by User:Titodutta. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanuraj123 ( talk • contribs) 10:10, 8 May 2013 UTC.
Please tell me how to add good articles! 117.220.85.151 ( talk) 06:17, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
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Controversies there are people who are agent of church are blaming him because he is true fighter of hindu dharma Santseva ( talk)
As a neutral reader, I see Wikipedia is no longer a reliable source. Period. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.141.157 ( talk) 19:23, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
I would like to put lot of editions in AsaRam Bapu ji Wiki Page.
It's dissapointing to see that wiki team does not have a valid information on him , Inspite he being one of the most spiritual & divine soul on this Earth.
He has been doing endless contributions to save human & Mankind, for the upliftment of women in India , to teach the younsters the path of divine spirituality & many more.
He started doing the Satsang & Sewa at the age of only 23 after attaining the Brahmagyan from his Guru ji Sai Lilashah . It's been more than 50 years now he is spreading the divine knowledge of true Self.
Not thousand & not lakhs , Millions of people have been benifitted by his holiness & kindness.
I would request you to please remove / atleast unhighlight the controversies that were definetely imposed on him by the Jealous people of world.
Rather please put the contributions & thousand of miracles he has done for the upliftment and the ease of Mankind . You would definetely be blessed .
Please refer the Ashram site http://www.ashram.org/PujyaBapuji/AboutBapuji.aspx . You can find 3 hours documentary as well here .
There is recent You tube video where with Mantra Science , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJj4Z6NfT_k&feature=youtube_gdata_player
A Drought effected area where there had been no water since 4 years , with his power & blessings , it Rained there for 4 days . It saved the life of many farmers , children & gave boost to local plantation as well.
There have been endless examples of such miracles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaarora ( talk • contribs) 07:12, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
why the good things have been removed about pujya bapuji from here. there are lot of human being got benifited from pujya bapuji. what about that . i think wiki also got a big amount to remove good things about bapuji. 111.93.130.33 ( talk) 17:43, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
The page is missing lots of relevant details about Asaram Bapu and can not be regarded complete. The life history is very brief and the page has only covered the controversies but not the court verdicts on them which is very important and should be shown here. Asaram Bapu has 111 ashrams all over the world.No details is given about them and their activities. Update the page with these details , all the details are present at the link http://www.ashram.org/ which is a official website of Asaram Bapu. Saurabh shar ( talk) 18:11, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
±True there might be other separate pages available but tell me how would any one know about them if they are not mentioned in the main page which is this one Asaram Bapu. Content could be presented in the way which covers all the things and pages about Asaram Bapu which i think is what wikipedia page should be like. Saurabh shar ( talk) 13:43, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
The controversies have been highlighted in non-neutral fashion and are not showing the two sides. For example Asharam Babu's comment was interpreted by media as if he said that the (rape) victim was equally responsible as the rapists.
Refer ( video translation not availble ) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyWHg0drKSk
Whereas, in this video, Asaram Babu himself clarifies that he didn't never said that, what he said was that since the (victim) girl was the only bread earner in the family, the parent of the girl may come to Asaram Babu's Asharam if they like and he would support them by the donations that he recieves. He later said that "Taali ek haath sey nahin bajti" direct translation would mean "It is not possible to clap with one hand" literal meaning of which is, "It takes two people for a quarrel" OR "Mistake is not of one individual" ... this he said later in reference to dowry laws, which was manipulated by paid media and presented as if he said it implying tha the girl was as guilty and the rapists.
Now since wikipedia has blocked this article, I suggest that this article be deleted instead.
This article doesn't meet wikipedia standards.
Tito☸
Dutta
please respond.
User:Bbb23 as you told me in your page that I should discuss this article in the talk page, I am sorry, I wasn't getting a response because of which I posted in your page.
Please fix this article
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Shashaanktulsyan ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
I just removed three sections: Attempted murder, Deaths of students, and Charged with sexual assault. The first and third sections were removed per WP:BLPCRIME. Unless there is evidence of convictions, they do not belong in this article. The second section is WP:COATRACK to the extent it obliquely accuses Asaram Bapu of being involved in the deaths. It doesn't even mention him in the section. That cannot remain, either. Please be aware that this is a WP:BLP, and once I have removed such contentious material, it cannot be restored absent a clear consensus that BLP is not violated. See WP:BLPREMOVE.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 00:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
≈Wikipedia team should take this seriously , the page is completely biased with very minimal data about Asaram Bapu. The page only taljs about the controversies and not the part where supreme court of india found them baseless. Pls update this page with correct data from the following link http://www.ashram.org/PujyaBapuji/AboutBapuji.aspx .This is official website of Asaram Bapuji and it has authentic data about him. hoping some positive action will be taken regarding this. Saurabh shar ( talk) 16:29, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
they are waiting for the full protection to expire so righting great wrongs can begin in earnest. This is the most funny allegation I have ever been charged with. I don't know who are the other editors they mentioned. Most probably Redtigerxyz (and Dharmadhaksya?), I mean, the editors participating here. You might want to see the discussion. -- Tito☸ Dutta 09:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
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"One Supreme Conscious" should be "One Supreme Consciousness" in English.
also " Gnana yoga" should be " Jnana yoga" which is the usual English rendering. Clocke ( talk) 17:04, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
After this long discussion and few discussions above, I am suggesting Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over. I have already done TNT works in Indian articles, see my restarted articles: Pritilata Waddedar, Jatindra Mohan Sengupta etc. It is better to have a neutral, understandable, properly sourced article than a biased, disputed one. I may start my work at Talk:Asaram Bapu/Temp and anyone may review it when I'll finish the draft. BUT, I don't give any guarantee of the article when it'll be moved to mainspace, editors may/will start making non-constructive edits once again. -- Tito☸ Dutta 13:08, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Current page is biased does not represent full view of person who has millions of followers all over the world. It is highlighting controversies more than social services done by ashram. It is humble request to remove this article as it is at this stage irreparable. This is completely against wikipedia policy of keeping tone neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 00:45, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
-- Ruzbehraja ( talk) 04:56, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
What is the procedure in order to improve this page and this page is protected for last one year. When you will remove the protection or give access to people to improve this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 18:55, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
User:Bbb23 what have you done here? Why did you unprotect the article suddenly? That too at 5:45 am Indian time, when Indian editors were sleeping. The protection was set to expire in 2014, so, I/we were not prepared this sudden uninformed protection. Yes, surely a one year long protection needs be broken at some point, but you could inform us before, so that we could be cautious. I can see 3 reverts and many other constructive/non-constructive edits. The sections you removed are more or less back. BLP and other issues are back again. I'll not make any change at this moment, else, someone else (not you) again start shouting at me without understanding thing. -- Tito☸ Dutta 10:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Just let you guys know that I did some thing in page and every thing was open for editing. I have not edited any thing as I want to improve this page with the cooperation from editors and work within the system. We also want his controversies should be given same breadth as his social services and assure you that there won't be any editor warriors with this page. It is my humble opinion that please allow me to update this page and I will not do any thing to damage article which will remove the neutrality of the article. I am also new to wikipedia and need some learning curve to get to the Wikipedia standards. Please give me access to the article to edit. Narbajaj ( talk) 19:20, 29 August 2013 (UTC) -- Narbajaj
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Please delete this page from Wikipedia as this is completely biased does not represent true picture of person or biography. It is againt wikipedia policy which is neutral, unbiased and both the side of coin. At this stage his controversies were more highlighted than his social works and huge following. I have seen any statement in wikipedia needs to be supported by media or third party link. Some time, paid media also comes into picture so it does not show clear picture of who is based on just media only. Wikipedia should also give equal importance to visual, social media and public opinion. This page is beyond repair and needs to be removed from wikipedia. Narbajaj ( talk) 18:36, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Please guide me on how to improve this article and whom should I work with in order to get access to improve this article. I wanted to assure you that at any point if article neuratlity lost, we can talk on it. There won't be any editorial war on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 18:55, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Even though media spelled his name as Asaram Bapu but his Asharam Bapu so is it not possible to start new page with Asharam Bapu with correct spelling. Please guide me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 19:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
I have read through previous discussion and got sense that Administrator of this page could be biased and prejudice. I have read many other wikipedia where each and every line does not have citation. In this age of social media with rampant Indian Paid media, relying on media links could be misleading. I don't want to get into discussion mode here but would like to bring my observation that either we can delete the page which will satisfy the biased Administrator motive and ask wikipedia to assign new administrator for this page. I could be completely wrong in my judgement but went back to all discussion and based on giving neutral feedback. I might be little bit biased as I am a follower of Bapuji but I am disclosing it before hand. I am willing to take your views as well. Narbajaj ( talk) 19:35, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I am not pointing any individual here. Based on decision making process where asking each and every line needs citation is some thing is impossible to get it. This article can't be completed if administrators have any prejudice against him. Otherwise, one year ban with highlighting only controversies more in this page needs to be discussed. I want to understand Administrators expectation before we start contributing on this page. Narbajaj ( talk) 20:01, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
"After this long discussion" para, I want to know what was the outcome of the discussion as I could not comprehend whether discussion got any outcome. Please help me here and want to get full understanding of the underlying issue before we find the solution. Narbajaj ( talk) 20:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
If Admins accepts that this article needs improvement, they should clearly mention at the top standard disclaimer wikipedia puts for article which are biased/needs improvement till we fix this issue. I am very much puzzled that last one year we allowed this article on wikipedia as it is. Narbajaj ( talk) 21:57, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Any accusation can't be one sided as case go any side. It should be neutral and should not get into detail the case as wikipedia is not the place to get full details of the case. If some body is interested they can go to references. I completely agree that information should be put but no need to give specifics details of it. Narbajaj ( talk) 00:05, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
We also need to put some kind of disclaimer on this page as issue was identified in earlier discussion. For example "This article may rely excessively on sources too closely against with the subject, preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral. Please help improve it by replacing them with more appropriate citations to reliable, independent, third-party sources". Is it appropriate? Narbajaj ( talk) 22:54, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Hi Wiki team ,
I would like to put lot of editions in AsaRam Bapu ji Wiki Page.
It's dissapointing to see that wiki team does not have a valid information on him , Inspite he being one of the most spiritual & divine soul on this Earth.
He has been doing endless contributions to save human & Mankind, for the upliftment of women in India , to teach the younsters the path of divine spirituality & many more.
He started doing the Satsang & Sewa at the age of only 23 after attaining the Brahmagyan from his Guru ji Sai Lilashah . It's been more than 50 years now he is spreading the divine knowledge of true Self.
Not thousand & not lakhs , Millions of people have been benifitted by his holiness & kindness.
I would request you to please remove / atleast unhighlight the controversies that were definetely imposed on him by the Jealous people of world.
Rather please put the contributions & thousand of miracles he has done for the upliftment and the ease of Mankind . You would definetely be blessed .
Please refer the Ashram site http://www.ashram.org/PujyaBapuji/AboutBapuji.aspx . You can find 3 hours documentary as well here .
There is recent You tube video where with Mantra Science , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJj4Z6NfT_k&feature=youtube_gdata_player
A Drought effected area where there had been no water since 4 years , with his power & blessings , it Rained there for 4 days . It saved the life of many farmers , children & gave boost to local plantation as well.
There have been endless examples of such miracles.
Thank you Regards Kanika — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaarora ( talk • contribs) 07:07, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
off-topic discussion | |||
---|---|---|---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | |||
Asaram Bapu is really a great saint. Thousand of people including me have benefited a lot from him. But the media thought that defaming such a saint can raise up their TRP and bring them huge profit. They have started showing irrelevant news about him which we all know is just a piece of fiction and not at all true. My request to all is to not consider these allegations and use your mind. Why millions of people are still attached to him? because they have experienced the divine power of Asaram Bapuji. He is a true saint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.102.127.16 ( talk) 04:16, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Much like the celebrity religionists that plague the United States, self-proclaimed gurus have enjoyed a long and parasitic relationship with India's underclasses--exploiting rural peasants, the mentally infirm, and the elderly. They are despicable hucksters who take advantage of the people who can least afford such exploitation--and they avoid censure by selecting unsophisticated victims who can be made to believe they've actually been helped. Their victims could truly benefit from some guidance transitioning out of their medieval beliefs, but these gurus simply pander to their clientele, reinforcing their repellent views--witness Bapu-Ji's recent pronouncement that the Delhi gang-rape victim was as much at fault as the five in custody: [1]
The Delhi police have been worse-than-incompetent--and often intransigent--but the gurus actually encourage the sub-human criminality. |
The article was originally written with a lot of unreferenced biographical information. There were lots of claims presented as facts. I've gone ahead and reduced the article to a stub. In my opinion, new material should be clearly referenced, with no unverifiable claims and neutral in tone. TheRingess ( talk) 20:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Sant Shri Asaramji Bapu is a recently created article that I think should be merged into here.
SPat talk 13:37, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
I agree.. -- Rohit ( talk) 13:51, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
This apge should replace the page that is currently shown on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.164.229.5 ( talk) 06:10, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
All information in this article must adhere to the policy on articles about living persons. I would strongly encourage anyone who wants to improve this article to cite sources in support of any information added. I've reverted the changes by User:Fragin2010 as they simply re-introduced unreferenced information into the article. Please discuss here before re-adding the information. — Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 01:30, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Following information seems unnecessary and should be deleted/rewritten!
Live webcast of Spiritual Discourse is facilitated for more than 5 crore followers (sadhaks) living worldwide through the Ashram website. The more information about ashram is available at here:- More Info About Ashram - Ashram.org [3]
Refer notes are not from trusted resources. Here direct link is provided and also unclaimed 5 Crore followers are listed! Please provide necessary reference and rewrite it as per wiki standards Deepeshdeomurari ( talk) 14:00, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
i would request mr/ms author to pls go thru' the dictionary to find out meaning of the term "self-proclaimed", he has over 5 crore followers, for whom he is the spiritual guru. so pls remove this word(from introduction column). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.246.197.51 ( talk) 10:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC) And also if you can write about comments in the gang rape case, you can also write about the ashrams and bal sanskar kendras. Ankush98 ( talk) 05:19, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
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Dear Sir,
Request you to allow me to edit this page as i will want to add the biography and foundations in this page, which was available in previous versions done by user naveentirthani. The current page does not show the biography and foundations in it. For some season someone has cut short and only given controversies in the article. Since i am a well wisher of Asaram Bapu and could like to add and highlight various things related to Asaram Bapu.
Please give me the required permission to edit this page.
Thanks & Regards Anand Anandraheja ( talk) 03:25, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
Please discuss first before adding these content! -- Tito Dutta ( talk) 18:02, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Titodutta - please let me know , why cant we keep old revisions data which prevailed for long time. Same content was already in in older revisions, I am just restoring those. Naveentirthani ( talk)
The article is not neutral at all! The controversies have been highlighted too much! Ankush98 ( talk) 04:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
I have reverted this edit because Source6 mentions this! -- Tito Dutta ( talk) 06:29, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
The line was mentioned in only one source.And it was written by an editor, who could be biased in his opinions .So I request you to remove the line.It is very easy to malign a person. Ankush98 ( talk) 08:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
What is meant by "don't other editors' posts"? Ankush98 ( talk) 08:14, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Titodutta: I notice you added this [1] source as an additional reference to the passage in question. I'd be a bit reluctant about that one: it was published only on 9 January, well after the claim was in our article here, and the whole piece on OneIndiaNews looks suspiciously like a paraphrase of our Wikipedia article. Could be a case of "citogenesis" [2]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:55, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
No i am sorry I had opened another link and did not find the given line in it.But please hear my point. Ankush98 ( talk) 03:18, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
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Please change the text in Biography Section to the one given below
Deep345 ( talk) 04:15, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Currently He is in India, and reference when he came to India is at page 2 [[ http://books.google.com/books?id=EleWwbvfGfQC&pg=PT3 Jivan Jhanki]] [2] if this is not valid - From where we would get this reference then? -- Naveentirthani ( talk) 02:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
On 2nd Day of Ashwin month in Samvat 2021 at 2:30 PM in the afternoon by the blessings of Swami Sri Lilashahji Maharaj He attained Self Realization on October 7, 1964, Asumal was transformed into Asaram Bapu . After this Asaram Bapu went into samadhi for next two and a half days. [[ http://books.google.com/books?id=EleWwbvfGfQC&pg=PT3]].
Some of the information on first paragraph has been repeated in the second one. I request the contributors to merge the two... Koteshwor ( talk) 20:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Dear Admins - dont you have any answer on this? You are removing all required things,and keeping only controversies, this is not at all fair. - this page should have biography section but you people have filled this up by your controversies. please answer. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Naveentirthani (
talk •
contribs)
19:50, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
First of all who is the real administrator or editor of this page?!! If you are unable to put-up whole biography of a saint properly.. kindly remove this page from so called prestigious Wikipedia. You are Just highlighting controversies which in fact are dubious one. Pandeyadityasn ( talk) 13:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)pandeyadityasn 4/03/13 7.20pm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pandeyadityasn ( talk • contribs) 13:46, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
I had given 2 links on diksha and crowd which usually gather at his Satsangs. How many links you want for this. what language should i use, If my language is wrong then correct it and keep it, why are you removing it entirely. Here the references http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2005-05-08/patna/27833997_1_asaram-bapu-diksha-disciples http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2001-12-02/ahmedabad/27250212_1_asaram-bapu-students-throng-sant http://www.bhaskar.com/article/MP-OTH-58684-3955012.html http://www.bhaskar.com/article/RAJ-OTH-1447153-3466899.html?PRVNX= Naveentirthani ( talk) 19:58, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
His spiritual discourses have been scheduled in different Indian cities like Ahmedabad, Patna and devotees also took diksha from him in these satsang programs.
the line I have removed has only one source. It is the policy of wikipedia that things are added only after proper verification. when ashram.org can not be considered as a source,why can these sold media websites be considered as a source.Moreover only you told me that the language of the media cannot be directly used.Now can anyone answer me?? Kanuraj123 ( talk) 06:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Why is everything about asaram bapu unencyclopedic and all controversies encyclopedic material?? Kanuraj123 ( talk) 04:11, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
What is promotional in it?And if times of india uses it,the article must be true.what problem do you have from it?why do you want only controversies on the page? Are you not an Indian?Do we not respect Shri Asaram Bapuji? Kanuraj123 ( talk) 05:04, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
"One single opinion piece doesn't indicate what he "often invokes" and as a piece written by him",this is what you say. I also say the same thing about source 6,and so I remove It again and again. Kanuraj123 ( talk) 06:54, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
The source says what was mentioned by raju chandak.He could even tell a lie!Why are you not understanding this?Please let me remove this,It will not do wikipedia any harm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.163.245 ( talk) 06:40, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I have found a video www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UD8Pvf057U — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanuraj123 ( talk • contribs) 04:11, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Titodutta,Even I would have done the same if I was in your situation.You are an employee of wikipedia(If my thinking is right),and try to prevent any damage to it.But please understand the fact that I am not disrupting anything.Wikipedia always speaks the truth.I hope you now understand that no saint has ever been so unfairly maligned as asaram bapuji.This is because he has stopped the activities of christian missionaries,who have converted almost all north east india to christianity.They wanted to erase his popularity.Even you know that North East is predominantly christian.If you want proofs,I can show You.Therefore I request you to please let me remove that unfair line.You don't need to reply on the talk page,since you must be very busy. And by the way,where in India do you live?We are (were)fighting it out in wikipedia,but havent even exchanged our phone numbers!:) My number is phone number hidden by User:Titodutta. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanuraj123 ( talk • contribs) 10:10, 8 May 2013 UTC.
Please tell me how to add good articles! 117.220.85.151 ( talk) 06:17, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
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Controversies there are people who are agent of church are blaming him because he is true fighter of hindu dharma Santseva ( talk)
As a neutral reader, I see Wikipedia is no longer a reliable source. Period. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.141.157 ( talk) 19:23, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
I would like to put lot of editions in AsaRam Bapu ji Wiki Page.
It's dissapointing to see that wiki team does not have a valid information on him , Inspite he being one of the most spiritual & divine soul on this Earth.
He has been doing endless contributions to save human & Mankind, for the upliftment of women in India , to teach the younsters the path of divine spirituality & many more.
He started doing the Satsang & Sewa at the age of only 23 after attaining the Brahmagyan from his Guru ji Sai Lilashah . It's been more than 50 years now he is spreading the divine knowledge of true Self.
Not thousand & not lakhs , Millions of people have been benifitted by his holiness & kindness.
I would request you to please remove / atleast unhighlight the controversies that were definetely imposed on him by the Jealous people of world.
Rather please put the contributions & thousand of miracles he has done for the upliftment and the ease of Mankind . You would definetely be blessed .
Please refer the Ashram site http://www.ashram.org/PujyaBapuji/AboutBapuji.aspx . You can find 3 hours documentary as well here .
There is recent You tube video where with Mantra Science , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJj4Z6NfT_k&feature=youtube_gdata_player
A Drought effected area where there had been no water since 4 years , with his power & blessings , it Rained there for 4 days . It saved the life of many farmers , children & gave boost to local plantation as well.
There have been endless examples of such miracles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaarora ( talk • contribs) 07:12, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
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why the good things have been removed about pujya bapuji from here. there are lot of human being got benifited from pujya bapuji. what about that . i think wiki also got a big amount to remove good things about bapuji. 111.93.130.33 ( talk) 17:43, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
The page is missing lots of relevant details about Asaram Bapu and can not be regarded complete. The life history is very brief and the page has only covered the controversies but not the court verdicts on them which is very important and should be shown here. Asaram Bapu has 111 ashrams all over the world.No details is given about them and their activities. Update the page with these details , all the details are present at the link http://www.ashram.org/ which is a official website of Asaram Bapu. Saurabh shar ( talk) 18:11, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
±True there might be other separate pages available but tell me how would any one know about them if they are not mentioned in the main page which is this one Asaram Bapu. Content could be presented in the way which covers all the things and pages about Asaram Bapu which i think is what wikipedia page should be like. Saurabh shar ( talk) 13:43, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
The controversies have been highlighted in non-neutral fashion and are not showing the two sides. For example Asharam Babu's comment was interpreted by media as if he said that the (rape) victim was equally responsible as the rapists.
Refer ( video translation not availble ) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyWHg0drKSk
Whereas, in this video, Asaram Babu himself clarifies that he didn't never said that, what he said was that since the (victim) girl was the only bread earner in the family, the parent of the girl may come to Asaram Babu's Asharam if they like and he would support them by the donations that he recieves. He later said that "Taali ek haath sey nahin bajti" direct translation would mean "It is not possible to clap with one hand" literal meaning of which is, "It takes two people for a quarrel" OR "Mistake is not of one individual" ... this he said later in reference to dowry laws, which was manipulated by paid media and presented as if he said it implying tha the girl was as guilty and the rapists.
Now since wikipedia has blocked this article, I suggest that this article be deleted instead.
This article doesn't meet wikipedia standards.
Tito☸
Dutta
please respond.
User:Bbb23 as you told me in your page that I should discuss this article in the talk page, I am sorry, I wasn't getting a response because of which I posted in your page.
Please fix this article
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Shashaanktulsyan ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
I just removed three sections: Attempted murder, Deaths of students, and Charged with sexual assault. The first and third sections were removed per WP:BLPCRIME. Unless there is evidence of convictions, they do not belong in this article. The second section is WP:COATRACK to the extent it obliquely accuses Asaram Bapu of being involved in the deaths. It doesn't even mention him in the section. That cannot remain, either. Please be aware that this is a WP:BLP, and once I have removed such contentious material, it cannot be restored absent a clear consensus that BLP is not violated. See WP:BLPREMOVE.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 00:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
≈Wikipedia team should take this seriously , the page is completely biased with very minimal data about Asaram Bapu. The page only taljs about the controversies and not the part where supreme court of india found them baseless. Pls update this page with correct data from the following link http://www.ashram.org/PujyaBapuji/AboutBapuji.aspx .This is official website of Asaram Bapuji and it has authentic data about him. hoping some positive action will be taken regarding this. Saurabh shar ( talk) 16:29, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
they are waiting for the full protection to expire so righting great wrongs can begin in earnest. This is the most funny allegation I have ever been charged with. I don't know who are the other editors they mentioned. Most probably Redtigerxyz (and Dharmadhaksya?), I mean, the editors participating here. You might want to see the discussion. -- Tito☸ Dutta 09:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
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"One Supreme Conscious" should be "One Supreme Consciousness" in English.
also " Gnana yoga" should be " Jnana yoga" which is the usual English rendering. Clocke ( talk) 17:04, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
After this long discussion and few discussions above, I am suggesting Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over. I have already done TNT works in Indian articles, see my restarted articles: Pritilata Waddedar, Jatindra Mohan Sengupta etc. It is better to have a neutral, understandable, properly sourced article than a biased, disputed one. I may start my work at Talk:Asaram Bapu/Temp and anyone may review it when I'll finish the draft. BUT, I don't give any guarantee of the article when it'll be moved to mainspace, editors may/will start making non-constructive edits once again. -- Tito☸ Dutta 13:08, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Current page is biased does not represent full view of person who has millions of followers all over the world. It is highlighting controversies more than social services done by ashram. It is humble request to remove this article as it is at this stage irreparable. This is completely against wikipedia policy of keeping tone neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 00:45, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
-- Ruzbehraja ( talk) 04:56, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
What is the procedure in order to improve this page and this page is protected for last one year. When you will remove the protection or give access to people to improve this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 18:55, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
User:Bbb23 what have you done here? Why did you unprotect the article suddenly? That too at 5:45 am Indian time, when Indian editors were sleeping. The protection was set to expire in 2014, so, I/we were not prepared this sudden uninformed protection. Yes, surely a one year long protection needs be broken at some point, but you could inform us before, so that we could be cautious. I can see 3 reverts and many other constructive/non-constructive edits. The sections you removed are more or less back. BLP and other issues are back again. I'll not make any change at this moment, else, someone else (not you) again start shouting at me without understanding thing. -- Tito☸ Dutta 10:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Just let you guys know that I did some thing in page and every thing was open for editing. I have not edited any thing as I want to improve this page with the cooperation from editors and work within the system. We also want his controversies should be given same breadth as his social services and assure you that there won't be any editor warriors with this page. It is my humble opinion that please allow me to update this page and I will not do any thing to damage article which will remove the neutrality of the article. I am also new to wikipedia and need some learning curve to get to the Wikipedia standards. Please give me access to the article to edit. Narbajaj ( talk) 19:20, 29 August 2013 (UTC) -- Narbajaj
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Please delete this page from Wikipedia as this is completely biased does not represent true picture of person or biography. It is againt wikipedia policy which is neutral, unbiased and both the side of coin. At this stage his controversies were more highlighted than his social works and huge following. I have seen any statement in wikipedia needs to be supported by media or third party link. Some time, paid media also comes into picture so it does not show clear picture of who is based on just media only. Wikipedia should also give equal importance to visual, social media and public opinion. This page is beyond repair and needs to be removed from wikipedia. Narbajaj ( talk) 18:36, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Please guide me on how to improve this article and whom should I work with in order to get access to improve this article. I wanted to assure you that at any point if article neuratlity lost, we can talk on it. There won't be any editorial war on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 18:55, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Even though media spelled his name as Asaram Bapu but his Asharam Bapu so is it not possible to start new page with Asharam Bapu with correct spelling. Please guide me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 19:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
I have read through previous discussion and got sense that Administrator of this page could be biased and prejudice. I have read many other wikipedia where each and every line does not have citation. In this age of social media with rampant Indian Paid media, relying on media links could be misleading. I don't want to get into discussion mode here but would like to bring my observation that either we can delete the page which will satisfy the biased Administrator motive and ask wikipedia to assign new administrator for this page. I could be completely wrong in my judgement but went back to all discussion and based on giving neutral feedback. I might be little bit biased as I am a follower of Bapuji but I am disclosing it before hand. I am willing to take your views as well. Narbajaj ( talk) 19:35, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I am not pointing any individual here. Based on decision making process where asking each and every line needs citation is some thing is impossible to get it. This article can't be completed if administrators have any prejudice against him. Otherwise, one year ban with highlighting only controversies more in this page needs to be discussed. I want to understand Administrators expectation before we start contributing on this page. Narbajaj ( talk) 20:01, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
"After this long discussion" para, I want to know what was the outcome of the discussion as I could not comprehend whether discussion got any outcome. Please help me here and want to get full understanding of the underlying issue before we find the solution. Narbajaj ( talk) 20:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
If Admins accepts that this article needs improvement, they should clearly mention at the top standard disclaimer wikipedia puts for article which are biased/needs improvement till we fix this issue. I am very much puzzled that last one year we allowed this article on wikipedia as it is. Narbajaj ( talk) 21:57, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Any accusation can't be one sided as case go any side. It should be neutral and should not get into detail the case as wikipedia is not the place to get full details of the case. If some body is interested they can go to references. I completely agree that information should be put but no need to give specifics details of it. Narbajaj ( talk) 00:05, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
We also need to put some kind of disclaimer on this page as issue was identified in earlier discussion. For example "This article may rely excessively on sources too closely against with the subject, preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral. Please help improve it by replacing them with more appropriate citations to reliable, independent, third-party sources". Is it appropriate? Narbajaj ( talk) 22:54, 29 August 2013 (UTC)